View Full Version : Bivy or tent?
imaginateer
12-05-2011, 16:03
Bivy or Tent? I'm starting in March going North, and I'm traveling with a friend, so we're gonna get a two person bivy or tent. I've heard that a tent is more breezy and less stuffy, but on the other hand a bivy is warmer and lighter. Thoughts? Any suggestions for what brand is best? Should I get a tarp?
Tent.
Bivy cannot be used on its own in rainy weather (even if it is 100% waterproof). It's an emergency item for cold mountain use.
Tarp and bivy combinations are useful, but then you're nearly up to the weight of a tent, have a more complicated and time consuming pitch, and site selection is more important than even a tent primarily because you need to place more stakes.
http://www.tarptent.com/moment.html
If you're not using hiking poles this would be my first suggestion to you. A friend has one and I'm impressed with it in nearly every way. Having only one wall, occasionally condensation will get knocked down on you during hard rains, but I can't think of a single improvement I'd make to it.
If you are using trekking poles, look at tents from www.lightheartgear.com (http://www.lightheartgear.com) . I had one for a while and made some improvements which I suggested to the owner of the company who ended up implementing them. If you pay extra for her to hand sew you one, you can get a great design made in the USA. Her standard tents are made overseas.
imaginateer
12-05-2011, 16:18
Oh yeah I was reminded by your avatar that a hammock is an option too. Are those comfy? Your back isn't really straight and I stretch in my sleep, so I don't know if I could sleep in one every night, but then again I haven't tried. I guess they need tarps in rainy weather too.
Oh yeah I was reminded by your avatar that a hammock is an option too. Are those comfy? Your back isn't really straight and I stretch in my sleep, so I don't know if I could sleep in one every night, but then again I haven't tried. I guess they need tarps in rainy weather too.
Yes, a hammock needs a tarp (and bug netting in the summer, too, which is one reason that I use a different setup than most hammockers, preferring to carry a separate bug net which surrounds my hammock. True, it adds more weight to my setup than a sewn-in netting, but I can leave it at home in the winter when it's not needed, saving weight.
You can lie straight in a hammock, as well as on your side. If you lie on a diagonal, leaving the hammock a bit loose, your back will be relatively straight.
Comfort aside, I've found that you can pitch a tarp in the rain and then take your time setting up the hammock underneath it, and the "floor" ("......" means so-called or otherwise called) never gets muddy (you don't have a floor, but that's the point - a tent picks up a lot of weight from rain and needs to be dried out asap or you could get mildew. With a hammock, only the fly and lines or straps get wet, and they're a lot easier to dry on the trail than a tent (usually you have to hang the tent from a tree limb or find a dry rock to set it up on (putting the poles in) to get it to dry, slowly.
The downside to a hammock is that you don't have floor space (no floor= no floorspace :-?), and limited privacy (a bigger fly gives more privacy, but it's heavier and catches more wind).
It's a trade off, but I've tinkered (hence the name) with my hammock setup and I'm currently comfortable with it.
If you pay extra for her to hand sew you one, you can get a great design made in the USA. Her standard tents are made overseas.
Wish i had known that when i ordered mine...:confused:
imaginateer
12-05-2011, 16:35
The bottom of the tent catching rain is a fair point, and i don't want to spend too much time with that. But on the other hand I like sleeping on the ground, but either way I'm considering a hammock now. Thanks for the info, Tinker.
Mountain Mike
12-05-2011, 16:43
Tent or Bivy with Tarp. To damp & rainy that time a year for just a bivy & at start to busy to count on shelter space.
bigcranky
12-05-2011, 17:13
Separate solo tents. (Unless this friend is someone with whom you are romantically involved. Then you need a 2-person tent.)
A single wall tarp-tent style shelter can be had for about 24-32 ounces and $200 or so. These offer excellent rain and bug protection, plenty of floor and storage space, plenty of room to change clothes, read a book, cook, eat, sleep, and hang out. Some even lighter versions exist, though of course the cost can go up quite a bit.
You'll want a solo shelter. Trust me on this (unless the romantic thing exists). There are many reasons why you and your hiking partner may not end up in the same place at the same time, and it's no fun if you're the one without the tent. Even when you are in the same place, having a quiet, private spot all to yourself at the end of the day is priceless. You won't have to worry about your partner smelling bad, farting, getting up in the middle of the night, talking in his sleep, or constantly rolling into you if the tent is pitched on a slight slope.
A completely waterproof bivy, like a Goretex climber's bivy, is basically useless on the A.T. Your sleeping bag will get soaked from condensation if the temperatures are anywhere near or above freezing, and in rainy weather it's impossible to get in or out of the bivy without getting everything inside wet from the rain. Most of the good climber's bivys weigh close to 2 pounds, meaning you can get a tarptent style shelter for less weight.
A water-resistant bivy is a decent choice when used with a lightweight tarp. Some tarp/bivy combos can be had for less than 24 ounces, and if you sew your own you can save a fair amount of money. But in general, compared to something like the Tarptent Contrail, the tarp/bivy is more difficult to use, fussier to set up, and possibly heavier and more expensive. The one real advantage is flexibility - one can use just the bivy for cowboy camping in good weather, or to keep the bugs and mice away in a shelter, then add the tarp if it's raining. But the Contrail wins on all the usability points - space, ease of setup, etc.
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Wish i had known that when i ordered mine...:confused:
Send her an email. Maybe she'll cut you a deal on a handmade one, and, at the least, maybe she'll state PROMINENTLY on her website that the "standard" tents are made overseas. It shouldn't have happened to you (unless I missed something on her website when I went back to check on the lack of information given on the country of origin of her "standard" tents. This is one rare occasion in which the owner of a company can make a firsthand case for "Made in the USA" being more expensive than "Made in C...a" ;) - Time is worth here more than it is there, and the quality of life we are comfortable with here makes it so.
The bottom of the tent catching rain is a fair point, and i don't want to spend too much time with that. But on the other hand I like sleeping on the ground, but either way I'm considering a hammock now. Thanks for the info, Tinker.
You might consider this as a first step into hammocking: http://www.campmor.com/outdoor/gear/Product___40675
I use a bivy all the time, but I carry a Tarp for use in bad weather (don't rely on shelters having room; when it rains, everyone wants to be in it). Just taking just a bivy is a bad idea. Either get a tarp to go with it or just go with the tent.
What Tinker said above is pretty good advice though I have to disagree with with a few things: A tarp bivy combo can be much lighter then a tent depending on how what its made out of and how much you spend (my personal solo setup is under 15oz for a bivy/combo). My tarp setup isn't very complicated nor time consuming (though I know what I'm doing). But yes, site selection is more critical as you have to watch out for how water collects since you don't have a bathtube floor (camping in the same spot as tent campers have used for 20years is a bad idea since the ground is compacted there and collects water). But a tarp can use a much smaller spot then a tent since the tarp can overlap logs, rocks, small bushes as the sides don't need to be staked directly to the ground. And you don't have to use the tarp at all if it isn't raining. Nothing faster then stuffing your sleeping bag and pad in a bivy sack and throwing it on the ground.
But yeah, having seperate shelters for a pair is better unless you are married. Long distance trails have broken many romantic relationships (some have had theirs strengthened) and long time friends have seperated as disputes are magnified by too much closeness over a long period of time. Besides, if one quits but the other wants to continue on, he is now stuck with a heavy 2man shelter for 1 person.
I use a bivy and rain poncho/tarp. For two people there don't seem to be efficient options for sharing a sleeping bag, but there is something to be gained in sharing a tent. As for sharing a bivy, you might be able to put something together there, and bivies are pretty easy to DIY. If you like rain poncho/tarps you might find a way to zip two together, and that might be big enough that you might not need bivies, just go with better sleeping pads and sleeping bags. Once you are into bug season I think you would be better off with a tent for two people. I really like bivy/tarp because I like to ma
1+ on the solo tent. You'll be happier.
I use a bivy all the time, but I carry a Tarp for use in bad weather (don't rely on shelters having room; when it rains, everyone wants to be in it). Just taking just a bivy is a bad idea. Either get a tarp to go with it or just go with the tent.
What Tinker said above is pretty good advice though I have to disagree with with a few things: A tarp bivy combo can be much lighter then a tent depending on how what its made out of and how much you spend (my personal solo setup is under 15oz for a bivy/combo). My tarp setup isn't very complicated nor time consuming (though I know what I'm doing). But yes, site selection is more critical as you have to watch out for how water collects since you don't have a bathtube floor (camping in the same spot as tent campers have used for 20years is a bad idea since the ground is compacted there and collects water). But a tarp can use a much smaller spot then a tent since the tarp can overlap logs, rocks, small bushes as the sides don't need to be staked directly to the ground. And you don't have to use the tarp at all if it isn't raining. Nothing faster then stuffing your sleeping bag and pad in a bivy sack and throwing it on the ground.
But yeah, having seperate shelters for a pair is better unless you are married. Long distance trails have broken many romantic relationships (some have had theirs strengthened) and long time friends have seperated as disputes are magnified by too much closeness over a long period of time. Besides, if one quits but the other wants to continue on, he is now stuck with a heavy 2man shelter for 1 person.
Miner nailed it especially on the solo shelter!
MuddyWaters
12-05-2011, 22:05
Tent.
Bivy cannot be used on its own in rainy weather (even if it is 100% waterproof). It's an emergency item for cold mountain use.
Tarp and bivy combinations are useful, but then you're nearly up to the weight of a tent, have a more complicated and time consuming pitch, and site selection is more important than even a tent primarily because you need to place more stakes.
A good solution is a lightwt a 2 part solo tent that uses hiking poles. A "shaped tarp" with a net innner/ bug bivy. Use the tarp alone when you want. Use the net inner alone when you want, Use them both when it warrants (cold, buggy/rain) and use the net inner in shelters too keep the @#$%^$@ mice off of you. ( If that bothers you.)
HeartFire
12-05-2011, 22:49
Done - I put on each tent page in the 'product description' section if made in China or the US. Some are a hybrid- the wedges go in the China tents, but the wedge is USA.
BTW, the SoLong 6 will never be outsourced to China. Even though I am chained to a sewing machine 27 hrs a day cranking them out for hikers, I will keep them "Made in America".:)
Judy - LightHeart Gear
...., at the least, maybe she'll state PROMINENTLY on her website that the "standard" tents are made overseas. It shouldn't have happened to you (unless I missed something on her website when I went back to check on the lack of information given on the country of origin of her "standard" tents. This is one rare occasion in which the owner of a company can make a firsthand case for "Made in the USA" being more expensive than "Made in C...a" ;) - Time is worth here more than it is there, and the quality of life we are comfortable with here makes it so.
imaginateer
12-06-2011, 01:22
Just to clarity, my friend and I are not romantically involved, but we are best friends although I don't doubt that the trail has tested many friendships, you would not know how good of friends we are unless you met us. We generally warn each other when a silent killer is on the loose. We think it would be better to split the weight of a two person bivy or tent between us, although I am seriously considering a hammock to avoid drying/cleaning the bottom of the tent/bivy.
All the same, I really appreciate all the feedback guys, thank you all.
Done - I put on each tent page in the 'product description' section if made in China or the US. Some are a hybrid- the wedges go in the China tents, but the wedge is USA.
BTW, the SoLong 6 will never be outsourced to China. Even though I am chained to a sewing machine 27 hrs a day cranking them out for hikers, I will keep them "Made in America".:)
Judy - LightHeart Gear
Thanks, Judy. I figured that you probably didn't have time to update the site. Glad it's settled. Great tents.
daddytwosticks
12-06-2011, 07:59
I am very happy with my tent from Judy (made in China). No complaints. I did my research before purchasing and knew exactly what I was getting. :)
So what do you all think would be the lightest way to make it possible to use two poncho/tarps together as one shelter, when warranted? I suppose you could just overlap them. Tie one as a lean-to. Then overlap the other one over it as a lean-to. I think I will try this with my daughter on our next hike together, so we can both carry a rain poncho/tarp. Hers is a bit shorter but it should still work.
forget the bivy. You can't sit up in them. what happens when it's a driving rain and it's only 4pm or so? you gonna try and lie down for the next 16 hrs?
Just ordered a Solo from Judy. Looking forward to it!
You can sit up in a bivy, not that you need to. You can pitch a rain poncho/tarp as a high-pitched length-wise lean-to. Even better if you do it under a Spruce Tree, using a branch on either side to tie off to. Four feet at the high end gives plenty of room to sit up. I have a 4' wide poncho and a 5 foot wide poncho and the 4' one works fine, keeping off most of the rain, and the bivy keeping the sleeping bag dry. I usually just sit on top of the bivy, but you can also crawl in and still sit up. You can cook this way also.
Above the tree-line I would want a tent, especially in snow, but in a Spruce forest a Spruce tree works just fine, especially in snow. I often use the bivy without the tarp under a Spruce Tree. That's the main reason I like the tarp/bivy combination is that it allows creative use of trees and stuff, which is fun. Might not work so well on the AT. Not sure. For two, two poncho/tarps would be interesting.
What do I do when I need to leave the tarp when it's raining? Usually I just go stripped down some. My wind shell is another option for a short nip. Usually don't need to leave the shelter though. Can do pretty much everything from there.
Tents would better in bug country though, especially if travelling as a pair. Tents are pretty boring when solo, but with two for playing cards or whatever, and organzing your kit when its raining or snowing hard, or the bugs are wicked bad, tents are cool. Also, tents are more efficient when divided by two. Also safer in bear country if you have a small child, I think. But for solo, more primitive is more fun, and you learn more.
16 hours? I would hike in the rain. The only thing I would hole up for 16 hours in would be a blizzard, or an ice storm.
takethisbread
12-06-2011, 20:39
Bivy or Tent? I'm starting in March going North, and I'm traveling with a friend, so we're gonna get a two person bivy or tent. I've heard that a tent is more breezy and less stuffy, but on the other hand a bivy is warmer and lighter. Thoughts? Any suggestions for what brand is best? Should I get a tarp?
Your Appalachian Trail thru hike would be better with the tent. The reason for this is that starting in March there is a chance that you could be looking at a lot of rain depending on the year. If you get tons of Rain, a tent is usually better IMO. Starting when you do, you wont be able to rely on shelters always having space as its a peak start time. If you were on the PCT i think a tarp set up might make more sense. Given the high frequency of ressupply and copious water sources on the AT, your pack weight will not be stressed anyway, making the extra pound of weight for a lighter tent well worth the investment.
SunnyWalker
04-02-2012, 22:13
I use a Gatewood cape and bivi (REI Minilimist). I am ordering the floor for the Gatewood Cape. There are times when you cam sleep/camp where you otherwise might not if you were using a tent. Usually these special layout spots are priceless. Bivi is good also if you carry a lighterweight bag. Using the bivi can up the temperature inside keeping you warm if it turns cold. When its real buggy I suffer. I cook and all using bug spray, head net etc. Sometimes or lots of times it seems to me people use a tent when you could just (as I do) sleep under the stars. It's a grand site at night.
ChinMusic
04-02-2012, 22:16
A bivy would be a great idea if the tent hadn't been invented.
Bivy? Don't be silly.......
Glo-Worm
04-04-2012, 21:40
I thru-hiked the AT with a waterproof Bivy and it was a good fit for me, though certainly not for everyone.
The main advantage is that is requires zero set up and can go down almost anywhere. This is a huge advantage if you want to crank out some extra miles at the end of the day. I found it to be very waterproof even in extended periods of driving rain.
As noted, however, if you have to get out of it you are going to get wet. It is warm in the summer and that can get super annoying if you have to use it to escape the bugs. Oh and if you aren't comfortable in a tight space it's not for you.
Glo-Worm
SunnyWalker
05-01-2012, 08:47
You'd love the Hennesee Hammock. I have used it on AT and it sure beats all. One does lay flat and I even lay on my tummy in my hammock. However, sometimes I use a Gatewood Cape and Bivi. To be able to camp where one might not normally camp, using the bivi (if its not raining) is nice. Hoever, remember there are diffculties with bivi. The inclement weather criticism is a valid point. You decide. I would think about pack weight though. Cuzz if you don't now, you will then (when you are hiking and carrying the load).