View Full Version : Is "Navigation" really necessary?
Ric Hamel
12-07-2011, 15:32
Okay.....first, yes I have seen all the threads concerning maps,GPS's, guides and .GPX files etc, etc. My question isn't about which of these to use or pro's/cons or anything like that.
I simply want to know this...
Is it possible to thru-hike NOBO with no maps, guide or GPS at all? Can you gather enough info while walking to stay on the trail? Are trail connections fairly obvious?
Sorry if this reveals some serious ignorance on my part but I am just beginning to put together a Feb. 2012 departure. I do know the trail utilizes a shuttle at some point but I would guess that info would be accessible at the shelters.
Do you have to buy hundreds of dollars in section maps or carry a GPS to accomplish this trail?
Lone Wolf
12-07-2011, 15:38
I simply want to know this...
Is it possible to thru-hike NOBO with no maps, guide or GPS at all? Can you gather enough info while walking to stay on the trail? Are trail connections fairly obvious?
yes. the trail is extremely well marked and signed.
Lemni Skate
12-07-2011, 15:40
It is definite possible to hike the AT without maps or guides. The trail is blazed pretty well and on the occassions when you might wander off the trail by missing a turn if you are paying any attention at all you'll notice pretty quickly you haven't seen a blaze and you can backtrack and get on the trail. The very few times I've done this I've had maps and trail guides with me and I don't ever remember having to use a map to navigate.
Yes, it's possible except maybe in the Whites where you'll stop, curse the AMC, and wish you had a map. Very confusing up there.
Most thru's get by using only a guidebook without any problems. You'll learn to turn around to find blazes if you haven't seen any in a while.
I think staying on the trail would be okay. Where/when to resupply is another issue.
Creek Dancer
12-07-2011, 15:54
Yes, it's possible to follow the trail without a map. Just follow the white blazes. Not sure what you mean about a shuttle. Don't count on the shelter to have the information you may need.
Smooth & Wasabi
12-07-2011, 15:55
You definately can follow the trail without navigation. I don't think I have ever had to use a map or compass to stay on the AT.
I always hike with a compass and map however. I like maps and find them useful when gauging progress, it is nice to have an idea of where you are. Even with the narrow corridor AT maps show they could be helpful In bailing for an emergency.
I am not sure what you mean about the trail utilizing a shuttle, I assume you mean the many private shuttles available to help with re-supply and lodging. You should definately carry at least the relevant pages from a single volume guide. In 02 we used the thru-hikers companion but I think there might be other options now. These are not maps but give distances to basic trail features and information about towns(resupply, lodging, shuttles, outfitters,etc). This information is valuable and not consistently available at shelters if at all. For the low cost and low weight if split up this info is very useful. Unfortunately last I heard the free online version of the companion is no longer available.
The Weasel
12-07-2011, 16:31
This is one of those things, which, like food past its "use by" date, you only have to be wrong once to be in a lot of trouble. Yes, you can follow the AT without maps, compass/GPS, or guides. IF it doesn't snow (white snow covers, duh, white blazes), IF you don't make a wrong turn at a trail junction in overgrown conditions, IF you don't camp off the trail and miss it when morning makes things look different from evening. IF you're perfect about every possibility.
There are lists of 10 things that are essential for every hike, and while the lists differ, every one of them (from any intelligent source) includes a compass and a map. Example: About 5 years ago, a couple got lost bushwhacking down Mt San Jacinto (near Palm Springs, CA, not far from where I am now), dangerously so. How can you get dangerously lost going down a mountain which, within a few miles of the summit, going down puts you in a high-density bunch of residential areas? Well, they weren't sure, but the guy whose camp they found, and whose abandoned gear (no compass, though) saved them, sort of knew. John Donovan - who'd done the AT and was thru-hiking the PCT, was dead and hadn't been found for over a year until the NEW losties stumbled on his camp, and his journal in which he detailed the last days of his life. Freak snowstorm (which happens on the AT) and dude was never seen alive again. But his supplies probably saved the lives of the couple who almost matched his foolishness. They were lucky.
http://www.backpacker.com/october_2006_skills_survival_lesson_how_the_loss_o f_one_hiker_helped_two_others_stay_alive/skills/12223?page=7
Carry a map and compass, dude. They don't weigh much.
TW
Spirit Walker
12-07-2011, 16:34
You definitely don't need gps. The AT is very well marked. The only confusion is likely to be at road crossings, since blazes are often scarce around roads, but if you head one direction and don't find the trail, it's easy enough to backtrack. The thruhiking guides (Companion, etc.) are very helpful for resupply information and info about shelters etc. You could survive without them, but it makes it harder since you'd have no clue as to where to find water, where to resupply and what you're likely to find in the towns off the trail. Some towns have big grocery stores, some only sell a few snacks, cigarettes and beer. I prefer to hike with maps since I like to know what is around me. I like knowing where there are side trails to views, water, etc. and in case of emergency I like knowing where the roads are. I have had to use bailout points in the past. When I hiked the AT, many years ago, I carried guidebooks because I enjoyed learning about the history of the area. I like looking ahead, so I know what kind of terrain to expect. Some people don't care. I wouldn't carry the state books now, but I would still carry the maps. I don't like hiking blind.
While the trail is extremely well marked, you'll find the need for a guidebook such as the Companion, for town, mileages and water info. How else would you know where to get food and water, and how much to carry?
Maps on the other hand give you info on your surroundings and offers alternatives and blue blazes to the AT proper. Also, although I don't recoomend leaving the trail, but making it to the nearest road crossing, if someone should get hurt, with a map you may be able to find a shorter distance to civilization. Just remember if you happen to get lost, or injured so bad you can't walk any further, your changes of being found may be nil.
IMO, buying maps and guidebooks from the ATC, or other non-profit trail organizations that protect and administer the trails such as the PCT and PTCA, go a long way in helping protect the trails, over the sometimes cheaper, or free alternatives, by third parties. Consider it the price of admission.
You definitely don't need gps. The AT is very well marked. The only confusion is likely to be at road crossings, since blazes are often scarce around roads, but if you head one direction and don't find the trail, it's easy enough to backtrack. The thruhiking guides (Companion, etc.) are very helpful for resupply information and info about shelters etc. You could survive without them, but it makes it harder since you'd have no clue as to where to find water, where to resupply and what you're likely to find in the towns off the trail. Some towns have big grocery stores, some only sell a few snacks, cigarettes and beer. I prefer to hike with maps since I like to know what is around me. I like knowing where there are side trails to views, water, etc. and in case of emergency I like knowing where the roads are. I have had to use bailout points in the past. When I hiked the AT, many years ago, I carried guidebooks because I enjoyed learning about the history of the area. I like looking ahead, so I know what kind of terrain to expect. Some people don't care. I wouldn't carry the state books now, but I would still carry the maps. I don't like hiking blind.
A very wise post. A GPS is not needed. But maps and a compass are useful on occasion. An ATC databook is the absolute minimum a wise hiker should carry. It sells from the ATC internet store for around $5. It gives mileages, and critical information about shelters. camping, towns and stores.
Personally, I rarely hike without a map and compass. But most people can get from Springer to Katahdin without them -- especially, if all you want to do is find the path, and have no curiosity about where you are hiking.
garlic08
12-07-2011, 19:02
Excellent views from both sides. I made it without maps or GPS, and enjoyed having my guidebook. But I sure don't look disdainfully on those who do carry maps and/or GPS. It's the smart thing to do. But is hiking over 2000 miles in one year a smart thing to do? I took many risks on my hike, including going without maps, and I enjoyed the way it turned out. If you want to play it safer, that's OK.
For me, it was a weight and cost issue. The $250 set of maps (I wasn't a member) would have been about 10% of my on-trail costs, not negligible for me. I also didn't do food drops, so I would have had to carry large amounts of paper or make lots of town stops for small mail drops. So I took the risk.
By the way, I thought anyone who carried less than I did was a risk-taking fool, too. I think that's universal.
bigcranky
12-07-2011, 19:19
Sure, you can hike without maps or a guidebook. Just follow the white blazes.
However, if you are going to hike this way, DO NOT ask to look at my map or my guidebook during the hike. That's really annoying.
If nothing else, I would bring a map. Even if you don't get lost, you are going to want to know where you are in relation to everything else, to satisfy your curiousity and get the most out of your hike if nothing else. The tossup for my next item would be to decide whether I wanted a watch or a compass, but I bring both. I don't bother with GPS, or any electronic for navigation. Map and compass and watch work is too much fun, and makes you more of an active participant in your own hike. I don't use a battery operated watch when. I like the old fashioned wind-up type. Hard to find a good cheap new one when the old one breaks, or you lose it, but that is part of the fun. I do use battery power for cell phone and camera, and lantern, but I try and use the cell phone and battery lantern as little as possible. The camera, well cheap digital camera's are just so awesome, and getting cheaper and awesomer.
GPS would be cool for bushwacking, and trail running, to record your exact route and speed and elevation gain and all that, along with your heart rate monitor for calories burned and what not. It is fun to get all wired up for stuff like that sometimes.
Speaking purely of the AT here: No navigation is required - blazes are easy to follow - even in winter, fog, etc. -- I have occasionally lost the trail for a minute or so in the snow or mud or along an old roadbed but a quick back-track always regains it. I would highly recommend a data book or appropriate pages of a thru hikers companion to determine milages and re-supply points. Now, all this said, maps are wonderful and any woods-person should know how to use a map (and a compass). I like having a map with me but on the AT it's about 99% just for enjoyment.
stranger
12-07-2011, 20:17
The minimum document I would carry would be the Data Book, or a section of the Data Book, you do not need maps but it makes sense to have them in certain places. These days the thruhikers guides also have the 'data book' incorporated into them and are a one stop shop for most long distance hikes.
The AT is arguably the most developed, well trodden, signed and blazed trail in the world right now, especially considering it's overall length - it really is amazing, I think we take it for granted...I know I do at times. Of course you can still get off trail, but lost...I don't know? I think it would almost be impossible get get lost on the AT for anyone who has a basic level of experience, but anything can happen, it's much easier to lose trail above timberline, down in the forrest (90% of the AT) it's kinda hard to lose.
Blissful
12-07-2011, 21:18
I simply want to know this...
Is it possible to thru-hike NOBO with no maps, guide or GPS at all?
Map, no map no guide etc has been beaten to death here on WB.
But anyone who feels they must ask this is not ready for a long distance hike. In my humble opinion.
Map, no map no guide etc has been beaten to death here on WB.
But anyone who feels they must ask this is not ready for a long distance hike. In my humble opinion.
completely agreed. no one ever plans on getting lost or injured. but preparing for that occurrence could save your life.
MuddyWaters
12-07-2011, 22:06
I have been lost in woods before. Well, not lost really, I knew where I was, where the nearest highway was, how far it was, etc. I just was off trail in the dark and didnt know where THAT was anymore. Everything looks different in the dark with a flashlight, could walk right across that trail and never notice it. Unfortunately, sometimes its hard to go anywhere in the woods at night without a trail. Every direction you try to go there are clumps of bushes, drainages, fallen trees, etc. Basically, a compass is useless in that situation. So I hunkered down and spent the night. I really, really would have liked to have had my color mapping gps with a backtrack to follow with me, but gps batteries just dont last long enough to leave on continously unless you plan to change once per day, thats a lot of batteries. But without a trail gps track that could be superimposed on the background map (beyond my limited capability, although some people did things like that) the gps was basically useless too, except to tell exact position.
Slo-go'en
12-07-2011, 22:10
Maps are interesting and on occasion can be helpfull, but a guide book is indespensable and doesn't cost much. Oh, since your leaving in Feb, having maps for at least through North Carolina would be very wise to have. After that, not so much.
Ric Hamel
12-07-2011, 23:04
Sure, you can hike without maps or a guidebook. Just follow the white blazes.
However, if you are going to hike this way, DO NOT ask to look at my map or my guidebook during the hike. That's really annoying.
Hmmmmm....no mystery where you got the nickname. lol.
Thank you everyone for the great pearls. I've gotten the answer to my question. Not what I was hoping but that's why we ask.
I WILL NOT be buying a GPS.
I WILL NOT be buying the full map set.
I HAVE ordered the Trail Companion. ( at .70 lbs it may go with...maybe not)
I WILL GET a Data Book from ATC.
I will carry my old BS Compass
Maybe...MAYBE......carry some very small scale overviews (maybe not)
Since it seems I need to carry some orienteering gear, especially since I am planning a February start, now the goal is to keep it all under 1lb.
But that is a different thread.
Thank you all for the possibly life saving advice. (I do like to bushwack a little.)
P.S. Re: Shuttles comment.
Did I not read somewhere that there are a couple of ferries that need to be used and that there is a necessary shuttle in between two trail heads? I was under the impression that technically the trail is not "walkable" from start to finish. Am I way off base here? Getting the Companion will educate me I'm sure.
I think if I was to do it I would make myself some large scale overviews, and then maybe try and buy or trade for some used maps along the way, from people going the other way or whatever. I would go SOBO, so I would start off with some better scale maps for Maine, then see what I could pick up along the way further down, and trade or give them away when I was done with them. reduce reuse recycle. I get alot of enjoyment from maps.
I would not worry too much about guides, for where to stop and shop etc. I would be happy to figure that out as I went, even if it was harder to do so. The parts of guides, and maps, that would really interest me however would be stuff like natural history, and recorded history, and natural features and points of interest, and stuff like that. The Fundy Footpath guides give those sorts of descriptions, like where there used to be a logging camp, and where there used to be a copper mine, and stuff like that. It's only a short wilderness trail, like 26 miles, so there isn't anywhere to resupply anyway, but there are alternative access trails, but you can get that off the map. The trail descriptions are really interesting though, although somewhat hard to read when you are hiking in the opposite direction. lol
A guidebook would be indespensible in winter if it were to tell you stuff like which access roads are open and used in winter, and which are only used in summer, except perhaps by snowmobiles or ATVs on weekends. Good to know. Probably not in the guidebook. Not sure.
What are the best sources of information for stuff like alternative access points and exit points in winter?
Sure, you can hike without maps or a guidebook. Just follow the white blazes.
However, if you are going to hike this way, DO NOT ask to look at my map or my guidebook during the hike. That's really annoying.
As someone who hiked using only the databook, I totally agree with this. Its no different from the guy who wants to save weight by not carrying toothpaste but always asks to borrow a squeeze off of someone else or the guy who is always borrowing someone else's fuel, filter, etc. Go into the woods prepared with what you need and don't plan to rely on others to make up for your deficiencies.
garlic08
12-08-2011, 09:55
Does AAA still give out state road maps? They still did in '08 when I hiked. They actually show the AT, approximately. I carried cut out portions, not the whole maps. They were useful to verify which direction and how far a town was, good for bailout if needed, to identify road crossings and landmarks, and it was fun to mark off progress. That might be an option for an overview, and free if you know someone who's a member.
Rain Man
12-08-2011, 10:12
How will you even get to the trail terminus from your home, without maps and/or good directions (i.e., "navigation")? If you could take a 2,000-mile, back-roads, cross-country road trip by car without maps, then maybe you could by foot. But the opposite is true, too. IMHO.
Is the AT well-blazed? Yes, about 99% of the time. But that 1% is frustrating and could be dangerous. Be responsible. Carry maps and guidebooks and a compass and know how to use them.
Rain:sunMan
.
I HAVE ordered the Trail Companion. ( at .70 lbs it may go with...maybe not)
.
If weight is a concern, I wouldn't blame you for not carrying the entire book, that's why many hikers tear out what they need for a section and mail the rest ahead. The front section, and parts of the back, have good info on how to get to the termini, and other practical advice that's good to know before your hike, but once read, extra weight.
Having the knowledge of what's ahead in the form of food and supplies frees you up to carry less between towns. Arriving at a location only to find out that candy bars and snacks are the only thing they sell (short-term resupply), or the store, PO or restaurant is closed when you get there, can make for a miserable week of hiking.
Smooth & Wasabi
12-08-2011, 13:09
"P.S. Re: Shuttles comment.
Did I not read somewhere that there are a couple of ferries that need to be used and that there is a necessary shuttle in between two trail heads? I was under the impression that technically the trail is not "walkable" from start to finish. Am I way off base here? Getting the Companion will educate me I'm sure. "
Canoe Ferry at the Kennebek River, the rest is walkable.
....... Re: Shuttles comment.
Did I not read somewhere that there are a couple of ferries that need to be used and that there is a necessary shuttle in between two trail heads? I was under the impression that technically the trail is not "walkable" from start to finish. Am I way off base here? Getting the Companion will educate me I'm sure.
You can walk the whole trail. No shuttles are needed. You do have to walk or hitchhike to resupply towns. But shuttles are not needed.
Shuttles are needed only if you are leaving the trail at some point in your walk to go home, to a distant hostel, or elsewhere. There is a free ferry during the hiking season to carry hikers across the Kennebec River in Maine. A few wade across, rather than take the ferry. Most do the sensible thing and take the ferry. It's open a couple of hours each morning and afternoon during the peak use times. Just in the morning early and late.
No prior arrangements are required. It's just there for the convenience of anyone who wants to take it.
Tom Murphy
12-08-2011, 14:21
Yes, it's possible except maybe in the Whites where you'll stop, curse the AMC, and wish you had a map. Very confusing up there.
Most of the trails in Vermont, New Hampshire and Maine existed before the AT was created. So you excuse them if they use the proper trail names on their signs.
As to not buying the maps, that's fine but please don't be the guy looking over my shoulder when I am reading mine. If you make this decision, you should learn to live with the consequences.
Slo-go'en
12-08-2011, 17:45
As to not buying the maps, that's fine but please don't be the guy looking over my shoulder when I am reading mine. If you make this decision, you should learn to live with the consequences.
Usually when someone pulls out a map, its in the morning or evening at a shelter. Once the map is out, I haven't meet anyone who didn't enjoy sharing the map with others to discuss and plan the next days trip. That's just being sociable. OTOH, to keep asking to look at someone else's map during the day while hiking, that would be annoying.
Usually when someone pulls out a map, its in the morning or evening at a shelter. Once the map is out, I haven't meet anyone who didn't enjoy sharing the map with others to discuss and plan the next days trip. That's just being sociable. OTOH, to keep asking to look at someone else's map during the day while hiking, that would be annoying.
All this is true. But none of it is a reason for not carrying maps. I know the trail attracts many people fascinated with the thought of walking 2,000 miles on a wild trail. But that is often not enough to keep a lot of folks from quitting once they actually experience their dream. I, personally, loved every minute of my long walk in 1993. But I oftened listened in amazement to the many complaints about how boring it all was.
The trail is boring only to those who hike only to carryout a dream. Only those with no curiosity about the trail. If doing the trail is more than a physical challenge, I strongly recommend that people carry maps -- and brief guides to the plants and wildlife of the trail. This is an endlessly fascinating 2,000 mile corridor for those with curiosity and the ability to observe.
Wise Old Owl
12-08-2011, 23:02
Sure, you can hike without maps or a guidebook. Just follow the white blazes.
However, if you are going to hike this way, DO NOT ask to look at my map or my guidebook during the hike. That's really annoying.
Hmmmmm....no mystery where you got the nickname. lol.
I WILL NOT be buying a GPS.
I WILL NOT be buying the full map set.
I HAVE ordered the Trail Companion. ( at .70 lbs it may go with...maybe not)
I WILL GET a Data Book from ATC.
I will carry my old BS Compass
Maybe...MAYBE......carry some very small scale overviews (maybe not)
Since it seems I need to carry some orienteering gear, especially since I am planning a February start, now the goal is to keep it all under 1lb.
But that is a different thread.(1)
He's a little older and is trying to say - "You're not entitled..." :D
Maps are interesting and on occasion can be helpfull, but a guide book is indespensable and doesn't cost much. Oh, since your leaving in Feb, having maps for at least through North Carolina would be very wise to have. After that, not so much.
"Guide Book - Map " there are two kinds of people too, I have no interest in a guidebook because I can see the scale see the topo and make a quick judgement - while hiking with a good freind, he turned out to be a walking dictionary with that damn guidebook spewing how many miles to the next shelter or water hole... There are clearly a lot of people that love giving and getting directions and I am not one of them. I learned a long time ago many get their lefts and rights mixed up while talking. Call it Spacial Visual Displasia - a well known way of getting lost. - But for some - its almost a bible on the AT. Its what clearly works for many folks...
(1) - In your dreams.
jacquelineanngrant
12-09-2011, 17:28
All you really need is one of the AT thru-hiker companions. I managed to thru-hike the AT in 2010 with just that and the white blazes for guidance. It was my first hike ever.
hikerboy57
12-09-2011, 17:47
IMHO, the more you know about the area(s) you're hiking, the better off you are, whether its to find a quicker route off trail in an emergency, or just knowing where some special "dont miss"sites lay or where those blue blazes actually lead,, or planning resupply, etc. that being said, its pretty clearly marked except above treeline in the whites.