View Full Version : Complications of extreme weight loss in thru-hiking of long distance trails
Complications of extreme weight loss in thru-hiking of long distance trails
Weight loss is a familiar term for thru-hikers. Most of the thru-hikers are lighter when they cross the finish line and some are substantially lighter.
It is not all good to lose weight even if you are overweight. There will be some complications if hikers lose too much or too fast weight along their journey. It is almost inevitable for amateur thru-hikers not to lose weight in major trails but they should be aware about hidden dangers of losing too much weight.
Average hiker weighs about 170 pounds at the start of a trail. He or she can lose about two pounds a week on trail and by the end of tenth week he has lost around twenty pounds.
At this stage many hikers may feel healthier in their new weight class and do not try to stop or slow down their weight loss. Their cloth seems a bit loser and their belt has been tighter one or two hole which does not feel bad.
The speed of weight loss slows down in most cases when the body of the thru-hiker starts to adapt to the new environment, situation and lifestyle but in some cases the adaptation does not happen fast enough and other measures should be considered to stop or at least slow down the weight loss process.
When our average hiker reaches to 145 or less then new unexpected things happen that are not all pleasant.
By losing too much weight body starts to shrink from almost everywhere including the cushion of your feet and now with less natural cushion to protect your weight, blisters starts to appear in places that has never been experienced before . Sometimes these new blisters are an addition to prior blisters. Blisters are not good items to collect, we all know that.
Losing fat cushion of the whole upper and lower back is another source of problem. The backpack starts to hurt in places that are not expected to hurt and sitting on rocks for a period of time does not feel good as before if not hurt.
Add this loss of general cushion of body to the loss of cushion of the sleeping pad due to natural course then you have some unpleasant nights toward the end of the trail. In areas like hip crest, shoulders, knees and elbows he may start to fill friction pain and discomfort.
More experience hikers need to pay attention here, any denture starts to lose its grip in extreme weight loss and with hard-food diet of thru-hikers ulcers can happen quickly in their gums and mouth which is not picnic also.
By reaching to 130 pounds our average hiker is not an average hiker anymore and even the hat feels lose and every breeze may take his hat off if not fixed to head by some measures.
By this stage our ex-average now small hiker has no more fat anywhere in the body to lose and he is losing weight at the expense of his muscles.
The muscles are not supposed to be lost but they do. Muscles are not at the top of the food chain in the body when extreme conditions happen.
Our small hiker has some new issues with his stamina by this new weight. He has lost some steam by now and he does not feel healthy anymore.
Mood swings and emotional breakdowns happen more frequently due to extensive hormonal changes that follows extreme weight loss.
It is time to break the vicious cycle of weight loss of our hiker or he is not going to make to the end.
Measures to stop losing too much weight might be changing the food and bringing more variety if possible, slowing down the pace of hiking to appropriate level, walking in cooler hours of the days knowing that sun is not an appetizer and in some cases stopping for couple of days to give the body the chance to rehabilitate itself.
Finishing any major trail is excellent achievement regardless of extent of weight loss but finishing it in a healthy state is much more commendable and splendid.
Good hike
Kookork
Having recently been diagnosed with gout, I've been told not to lose weight quickly or I might trigger an attack. I've also been given a list of foods to avoid, since they, too, can trigger an attack.
The one I will miss most is oatmeal. I think of that as the first meal of the day, every day, on or off the trail. I am already missing it very much, and am eating hot wheat cereal, instead.
The list also says to avoid:
Red meats (all of them, but especially highly processed ones like BACON :eek: and fatty or organ meats, such as one might find in SAUSAGES :eek::eek:). turkey and some fish are also on the gout list, as are EGGS :eek::eek::eek:, so, basically, I might just as well go hydroponic, and have someone put me in a pot and hang me from the ceiling :rolleyes:.
BEER? That "breakfast of champions"? YEP! - It's on the list, too.................and red wine.........well, I don't care much for that anyhow.
Asparagus, my favorite vegetable, is on the list. Thankfully, broccoli is not. It's my second favorite, besides french fries (which, thank God, are absent, as are all incarnations of the mighty Mr. Potato Head).
It's a good thing I don't have a dog or she'd end up dead.
As far as I know my wife's not planning on leaving me - YET - but I'd better come up with something more substantial than odd jobs to pay the rent.
Oh, rent - At least I don't have a HOUSE that the bank can take from me (but the landlord is a bit light in the job department (he's a self-employed plumber).
THANKFUL??? It may not sound like it, but I don't have much to lose besides my health, and I can do something about that besides hope and pray.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD HIKE!!! :)
max patch
12-16-2011, 18:34
The average 170 pound hiker isn't going to lose 40 pounds!!
Having recently been diagnosed with gout, I've been told not to lose weight quickly or I might trigger an attack. I've also been given a list of foods to avoid, since they, too, can trigger an attack.
The one I will miss most is oatmeal. I think of that as the first meal of the day, every day, on or off the trail. I am already missing it very much, and am eating hot wheat cereal, instead.
The list also says to avoid:
Red meats (all of them, but especially highly processed ones like BACON :eek: and fatty or organ meats, such as one might find in SAUSAGES :eek::eek:). turkey and some fish are also on the gout list, as are EGGS :eek::eek::eek:, so, basically, I might just as well go hydroponic, and have someone put me in a pot and hang me from the ceiling :rolleyes:.
BEER? That "breakfast of champions"? YEP! - It's on the list, too.................and red wine.........well, I don't care much for that anyhow.
Asparagus, my favorite vegetable, is on the list. Thankfully, broccoli is not. It's my second favorite, besides french fries (which, thank God, are absent, as are all incarnations of the mighty Mr. Potato Head).
It's a good thing I don't have a dog or she'd end up dead.
As far as I know my wife's not planning on leaving me - YET - but I'd better come up with something more substantial than odd jobs to pay the rent.
Oh, rent - At least I don't have a HOUSE that the bank can take from me (but the landlord is a bit light in the job department (he's a self-employed plumber).
THANKFUL??? It may not sound like it, but I don't have much to lose besides my health, and I can do something about that besides hope and pray.
MERRY CHRISTMAS TO ALL, AND TO ALL A GOOD HIKE!!! :)
Sorry to hear that . My father once had a gout attack. I remember even shoting the door of the room was painful for him. I have the genetic of gout and sooner or later it might come to bite me . I am a meatiterian and Gut is a nightmare for me.
The average 170 pound hiker isn't going to lose 40 pounds!!
We have a saying in persian language which we use when someone says something that is totally irrelevant to the subject.
We say: Morde goozid which word by word translation of it is : Dead person farted. That saying works for you.
I did not say average hiker would lose 40 pounds. The title says it all: Comlications of Extreme weight loss.
So if you have nothing to sdiscuss, just keep it to yourself or you make fun of yourself here.
bamboo bob
12-16-2011, 18:53
i have lost 40 pounds three times on three long hikes. It always comes back on at the rate of six ounces a week after I get home. The fast burn apparently keeps up for a week you don't even notice the measly six ounces a week. Then one day you wonder where the gut came from. I have never had any of those things kookork mentions. I have always felt healthy and elated at the end of a long trip. But maybe because I start at 250 the percent loss is ok?
i have lost 40 pounds three times on three long hikes. It always comes back on at the rate of six ounces a week after I get home. The fast burn apparently keeps up for a week you don't even notice the measly six ounces a week. Then one day you wonder where the gut came from. I have never had any of those things kookork mentions. I have always felt healthy and elated at the end of a long trip. But maybe because I start at 250 the percent loss is ok?
Yes Bob, 250 in your frame keeps you from some complications. a 210 pound hiker is still in normal range even if you lose 40 pounds but for a 170 pounder losing 40 pounds is not going to be uneventful. the speed of the loss is important either.
Jim Adams
12-16-2011, 19:05
We have a saying in persian language which we use when someone says something that is totally irrelevant to the subject.
We say: Morde goozid which word by word translation of it is : Dead person farted. That saying works for you.
I did not say average hiker would lose 40 pounds. The title says it all: Comlications of Extreme weight loss.
So if you have nothing to sdiscuss, just keep it to yourself or you make fun of yourself here.
If an average 170 hiker loses 40 pounds, that is extreme weight loss.
1990 I went from 212 lbs to 147 lbs on my thru and felt more healthy than I ever had before.
I put that weight and more back on after the hike and started my 2002 thru @ 228 lbs. I finished @ 165 lbs and was able to run 5-6 miles non-stop with my pack anywhere in Maine @ 49 years old. The way to stay healthy through the entire hike is to eat correctly and you should never go into deficiet.
geek
Mountain Mike
12-16-2011, 19:44
When I did my thru of AT I was shocked how much & how quickly I lost weight. I remember climbing out of the shower at Elmers in Hot Springs & seeing myself naked in the full length mirror. Most of my dinners were freeze dried, so not much fat. Squeeze parkay became my friend. It went in everything. It was a battle to keep weight on & not burn muscle, or not to much. In Maine I could tell just when I burnt up a meal because I would feel the energy drain. I learned it was time to stop & eat.
When I hiked the PCT I knew better. More canned (now foil packed) meats. More snacks. Double stuffed Oreos have great calorie to weight ratio! Dessert more, pudding shaken in a nalgene, or cobbler made from FD fruit, sugars & bread crumb in FBM style. When I reached Snowqualimine Pass I called a friend I hiked of & on with on AT. He was amazed to see how fit I looked so late in the trail. He commented when we hit Maine on AT we looked like WW2 POWs & yet at about the same milage I looked more like an alpine guide. I did still have a massive appetite when I hit towns. After Earthdog picked me up & took me to Seattle he treated me to a dinner at one of his hangouts. When the waiter brought out my platter with a huge cheesesteak & fries He said "See if you can finish thet!" Earthdog & I just burst out laughing. After It was gone & I finished up the rest of ED's fries & about of third of his sandwich the waiter was shocked till we told him the rest of the story.
My advice to newbie. After a week or two you normal appetite will double. By then your lets will have built up if you didn't start that way. Look for fat content. It is the densist weight per calorie ration & your body will crave it. Not saying don't eat well balanced but the scale will swing towars fat & carbs for enery while you are hiking. Foil packs of meats & fish are great for fats & protiens. FD meals are nice for convience but Knors supplemented with FD or dehydrated veggies & protien ( meats or TVP) can cut the price in half.
Mountain Mike
12-16-2011, 19:54
Tinker I feel for you as I also now suffer from gout attacks. I like you had oatmeal most mornings. I just carried quick cook & would throw in it what ever I had for variety. It was about the best weight per calorie option I found & easy to make. I had to cancel one hike this year due to a gout attack. Going to miss all thouse delicious greasy hamburgs on town stops.
Hey maybe we can get a college to do a study of long distance hiking on gout/ uric acid level??? It sucks to be able to eat what you want cuzz you body needs it or will burn it up to a restictive diet on the trail.
bamboo bob
12-16-2011, 20:12
Mountain Mike. My wife met me in Erwin and said I looked like a POW.
Mountain Mike
12-16-2011, 20:29
Yeah I know ribs sticking out, lots of upper body weight gone... But big thighs & shin muscles!
Mountain Mike
12-16-2011, 20:38
I love your caption about walking distance. I lived on Nantucket for many years. When someone asked me if it was in walking distance many of my friends would point out I was not the one to ask!!!
Wise Old Owl
12-16-2011, 20:43
Couple of things were missed - so I will add to the original post about exchanging fat for muscle and one only has to hike off and on over years and you may loose the fat pads under the feet.
Don't forget - bleeding hips, Charley Horses, Nails falling out, loosing a toe. Mood swings ? forget about it - how about Dementia?
How about leaving Port Clinton in the morning and be so confused you said you left two days ago?
Just things to ponder.....
Mountain Mike
12-16-2011, 21:25
Bar/hotel in Port Clinton I shure a friendly cheap place! Got sucked into there on a shorth hike, stopped for a beer on my thru
Wise Old Owl
12-16-2011, 21:30
Yea they are good people.
Blissful
12-16-2011, 22:03
We have a saying in persian language which we use when someone says something that is totally irrelevant to the subject.
We say: Morde goozid which word by word translation of it is : Dead person farted. That saying works for you.
Actually...this is not needed either and makes you look bad too...
Also, do you have medical credentials or where does your initial post about wight loss come from? It looks like it was copied and pasted from a website, so just curious.
atmilkman
12-16-2011, 22:10
Bar/hotel in Port Clinton I shure a friendly cheap place! Got sucked into there on a shorth hike, stopped for a beer on my thru
Just got back from the Keys in Sept. took a short hike around Mallory Square stopped in at Sloppy Joes for a rum runner.
Echraide
12-16-2011, 22:18
I lost a little over 40 pounds on my thru. Being 6' it wasn't a big deal. Also, I didn't lose weight throughout the hike, only on the first half, then it stopped. I continued to build muscle in my legs, though.
Actually...this is not needed either and makes you look bad too...
Also, do you have medical credentials or where does your initial post about wight loss come from? It looks like it was copied and pasted from a website, so just curious.
I am a medical doctor but I don't think it is necessary to be an expert to write about this issue.
About the Paste from a website, no . it was writen by me couple of month ago after a thru hike here in Canada. I will stop posting here in White Blaze forever if anybody brings any evidence that it has been a copy/paste of somebody else in part or total . It has a magazine taste I admit but it is my style of writing.
Wise Old Owl
12-16-2011, 23:07
Kookork one of the toughest lessons of blogging, is not to talk in absolutes..... something even I struggle with. Soon as one absolute is mentioned someone else has to find something to tear it apart.
I know from my own personal experience after five to ten pounds comes off - something happens - ya stop it levels out for a week - some call it plateau.
As for the above banter - lets try to refrain from that.
Kookork one of the toughest lessons of blogging, is not to talk in absolutes..... something even I struggle with. Soon as one absolute is mentioned someone else has to find something to tear it apart.
I know from my own personal experience after five to ten pounds comes off - something happens - ya stop it levels out for a week - some call it plateau.
As for the above banter - lets try to refrain from that.
I have an unettled bussiness with Max Patch. So my banter has a history. I don't like him and hopefully it is mutual.
About being absolute, you are right. It has been my problem since my childhood. I have no intention to deny that I think I am very adament about what I believe is true. Yet ,many times it has been proven to me that nothing is absolute. I am a fast learner but slow changer. my fault.
handlebar
12-16-2011, 23:41
I 6ft tall with a thin frame. On my five thru hikes I've gone from about 175 down to about 150 each time except the most recent when I went down to "only" 155, which is only 10 lbs under what I consider my ideal weight and is about what I weighed when I graduated from college. I can echo a previous poster that I definitely would notice that when all the fat was gone I'd "run out of gas" at various points in the day and need to re-fuel. The secret to reducing weight lost on the most recent thru hike was to have snacks in my pocket to browse on throughout the day and to bump up the calories in my dinners (Knorr-Liptons, Mac'n cheese, or tortellini) by adding an extra dollop of olive oil and adding about 1/3 of a pack of Idahoans. On my next long hike I plan to adopt this regimen from the beginning, forcing myself to eat all my snacks on a schedule, even if I'm not hungry. I think that will slow down the weight loss. Even at 150 or 155, I felt really healthy at the end of my hikes.
I 6ft tall with a thin frame. On my five thru hikes I've gone from about 175 down to about 150 each time except the most recent when I went down to "only" 155, which is only 10 lbs under what I consider my ideal weight and is about what I weighed when I graduated from college. I can echo a previous poster that I definitely would notice that when all the fat was gone I'd "run out of gas" at various points in the day and need to re-fuel. The secret to reducing weight lost on the most recent thru hike was to have snacks in my pocket to browse on throughout the day and to bump up the calories in my dinners (Knorr-Liptons, Mac'n cheese, or tortellini) by adding an extra dollop of olive oil and adding about 1/3 of a pack of Idahoans. On my next long hike I plan to adopt this regimen from the beginning, forcing myself to eat all my snacks on a schedule, even if I'm not hungry. I think that will slow down the weight loss. Even at 150 or 155, I felt really healthy at the end of my hikes..
You solved your problem with snack. Very good way to tackle the problem but it took you a few thru to gain this experince. extreme weight loss is mostly the problem of amature hikers.
MuddyWaters
12-17-2011, 00:06
By this stage our ex-average now small hiker has no more fat anywhere in the body to lose and he is losing weight at the expense of his muscles.
The muscles are not supposed to be lost but they do. Muscles are not at the top of the food chain in the body when extreme conditions happen.
You lose muscle normally whenever you restrict calories too. Not just when all the fat is gone. Depends on individual endocrine systems, some persons can be lean and muscular, some cannot be muscular unless also relatively fat. Some studies have been done which showed as much as 65% of weight loss during highly restricted calories can be muscle, not fat. Even while resistance training and eating high protein and doing cardio. Otherwise it would be simple to be muscular and cut up, which most can not achieve without steroids (regardless of what magazines attempt to convince you of) . Yes there are a few gifted persons that can.
Mountain Mike
12-17-2011, 03:03
Snacking shoud be a big part of any long distant hike. I now prefer it to lunch. Find a great view take in the vista & eat. I still carry gorp, but add what ever I can find along the way. Rasin bran, M & M Both male & female ones, Corn flakes, what ever nuts & dried fruits I can find & anything else that suits my fancy at the time. I may pick at it at times but I find if I keep changingig it I do so less. On my last long distance hike I went from Donner pass over Whitney & out. I met up with a NOBO who had to bail due to med problems & decided to come bace to the High Sierras to do it SOBO like I was. When we parted he thanked me for reminding me how to hike civilized again. I would often stop for elongated breaks at pretty spots & snack & read, or even lull myself into a nap. Take time to enjoy you hike & get some calories in too. How many times do you think you will be there. Ponder it over a snickers bar. & enjoy your hike!
Mountain Mike
12-17-2011, 03:13
There is one sure absolute thing on the AT & any other trail. What works for one person may not work for the next.
Nitrojoe
12-17-2011, 03:19
On my first thru hike,PCT08, I started out weighing 185 lbs and when I arrived in Canada I was down to 135lbs. For those of you that have lost alot of weight, have any of you ever measured your height? When my wife picked me up in Canada she said, " it looks like you shrunk a couple of inches". When we got home, she took out the measuring tape and low and behold I shrunk 2 inches from a 5ft 11in to 5ft 9in. I went to my doctor and asked him about this and his comment was that the fluid in the cartilangous disk were released and used by my body due to the weight lost and other factors. After three years, Iam still at 5ft 9in and my weight has stablize to 155lbs. On this next thru hike AT 2012, I do plan to eat more,and about my height, well we just have to wait and see.
On my first thru hike,PCT08, I started out weighing 185 lbs and when I arrived in Canada I was down to 135lbs. For those of you that have lost alot of weight, have any of you ever measured your height? When my wife picked me up in Canada she said, " it looks like you shrunk a couple of inches". When we got home, she took out the measuring tape and low and behold I shrunk 2 inches from a 5ft 11in to 5ft 9in. I went to my doctor and asked him about this and his comment was that the fluid in the cartilangous disk were released and used by my body due to the weight lost and other factors. After three years, Iam still at 5ft 9in and my weight has stablize to 155lbs. On this next thru hike AT 2012, I do plan to eat more,and about my height, well we just have to wait and see.
Very interesting subject. I like to see some other people have had this shortening or not. I will measure my height after a long hike to compare next time.
In the first 400 miles from Springer Mountain to Laurel Creek Lodge I lost 10 lbs on my AT thru-hike. From Laurel Creek Lodge to Gorham, NH I lost another 17 lbs. From Gorham, NH to Katahdin I lost another 10 lbs for a total weight loss on my AT thru-hike of 37 lbs. I felt great after my thru-hike but people back in Indiana after my AT thru-hike told me I looked way too gaunt and skinny. I gained back 17 lbs in the first few weeks after completing my AT thru-hike thanks to meatball submarine sandwiches with jalapenos at the Blimpie sub shop along US 20 bypass in Elkhart, Indiana. Pretty much every day for lunch after my AT thru-hike = 2x submarine sandwiches. Sometimes the same for dinner. I toned it down for breakfast.
On the PCT I lost 15 lbs from Kennedy Meadows to VVR. From VVR to Diamond Lake, Oregon I'd lost another 33 lbs. I don't remember how much I'd lost for the parts north of Diamond Lake or for the desert south of Kennedy Meadows. I do remember the waitresses at Diamond Lake, Oregon thinking I was way too skinny and giving me extra helpings of dessert while I was waiting out a snowstorm happening up at Windigo Pass.
Datto
On a tangential note: By eating more it is possible to hike for a long time without losing a massive amount of weight. The first person who brought this idea before me was Flying' Brian, in a talk he gave at Trail Days 2005. He said, "I can't afford to lose weight so I have to carry 6,000 calories a day with me." I shamelessly stole his idea for my own thru-hike, modifying the daily calorie count to suit my own gender, age, and hiking distances. For short hikes I bring 3,000 calories/day. On longer hikes I increase that slightly. It really does work, and it's not even hard when one is mostly packing packaged foods which have the calorie count right on the package. Seriously, a few minutes with a calculator can be quite illuminating.
PS--For those with devices which can utilize apps, it's quite interesting to track calories, and to see how that varies with different types of exercise. The one I'm using now is My Fitness Pal, which has a very good food database. It is, alas, wildly optimistic about the the number of calories I use when backpacking. It told me that I would use 4300 calories in seven hours of backpacking. I wish! That's actually quite a bit more than experience shows me I will actually use.
garlic08
12-18-2011, 09:37
Marta brings up a great point about carrying the food to fuel the machine. The corollary to that is to reduce the work load to match the fuel you can carry. You can reduce the work load by carrying less weight or hiking fewer miles. It's pretty simple physics.
I don't like to carry more than 4500 calories per day (and I have to force myself to eat that much while hiking). That's just a little less than the amount of work I do on a typical day of hiking, so I get to a resupply stop hungry but not gaunt. If I start getting gaunt (it's easy for me to monitor that on myself by the meat around my pelvis), I slow down and make it a point to eat more at resupply stops. Over-eating at a buffet or binge-eating ice cream or cake frosting is not really all that much fun, especially considering the systemic damage you're likely doing.
Sustained weight loss of the magnitude detailed in the OP is dangerous and so unnecessary on a recreational hike in a developed country. Thankfully, I believe it's very rare. This is supposed to be fun.
jersey joe
12-18-2011, 13:15
I went from 175 to 135lbs on my thru hike, so i'm in the category that kookork is talking about.
I averaged 20mpd and found it hard to eat enough to keep from losing weight. The more calories I carried the more I burned carrying them.
One thing working against me was the fact that I carried a heavy load and didn't take any breaks.
I was much lighter but still pretty strong at the end.
One thing that I struggled with that I didn't see posted yet was my decreased ability to stay warm with almost no body fat.
I found that I got cold a lot easier as I lost weight. Which probably contributed to me losing weight?!? Snowball effect.
I like to know how many of you Thru-hikers( In Canada when I say thru-hike people look at me like what do you mean of thru-hike it is a new term here) reach to Plateau and stop loosing weight?
I found in some occasions we never reach to plateau and the weight loss continues all the way. Now, i dont want to say it is bad or good but it shows some of us have problem reaching to it.
Wise old Owl had a very good point that nothing is absolute, I understand that but I think serious hikers and record holders(as mentioned by Marta ) have found that losing too much weight equals losing some steam.
Consumption of 5000 calorie per day is really difficult to achieve especially in hot weathers.
Now if somebody has lost 40 pounds but has been 240 before the start loses 17 percent of his total body weight but a hiker that loses 40 pound and is 170 pre-start loses 23 percent of body weight. so pre-start weight is important as well as health, experience, age, gender, weather, terrain,season,mileage, food quality and quantity and some other things.
Creek Dancer
12-18-2011, 14:46
PS--For those with devices which can utilize apps, it's quite interesting to track calories, and to see how that varies with different types of exercise. The one I'm using now is My Fitness Pal, which has a very good food database. It is, alas, wildly optimistic about the the number of calories I use when backpacking. It told me that I would use 4300 calories in seven hours of backpacking. I wish! That's actually quite a bit more than experience shows me I will actually use.
Hey Marta, have you ever measured your calorie burn while backpacking? I use a heart rate monitor at the gym which measures calories burned (among other things), but I have never used one backpacking. I often read that thru-hikers burn 6,000 per day, but I think they must be talking about the average male.
Creek Dancer
12-18-2011, 14:47
Thank you.
Hey Marta, have you ever measured your calorie burn while backpacking? I use a heart rate monitor at the gym which measures calories burned (among other things), but I have never used one backpacking. I often read that thru-hikers burn 6,000 per day, but I think they must be talking about the average male.
For planning purposes, 3500/day works well for me in warm weather, 12-15 miles per day. For longer distances and colder weather I need to add more food. And, as you know, I'm in the 99th percentile of female height distribution. Most women could probably cut back to 2500-3000 per day for moderate backpacking trips.
What's surprising is how much food even 3500 calories turns into. A typical Mountain House meal is around 500 calories. So if I pack a MH breakfast and supper, I'm still only at a thousand calories. Energy bars are usually only around 250-275 each. So eight energy bars plus two MH meals would still only get me to 3000 calories. Packing high-fat foods really helps--peanut butter, summer sausage, hard cheese, nuts, coconut...
One good way to take in calories is through liquids--hot cocoa, energy drinks, Muscle Milk, and so on.
I'm often amazed to see hikers making themselves one packet of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Are you kidding? Even for someone with a desk job that would be a starvation diet.
I'm often amazed to see hikers making themselves one packet of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Are you kidding? Even for someone with a desk job that would be a starvation diet.
Amen to that!! And then they wonder why they bonk a couple of hours later. As far as calorie burn here is another data point. I maintained a steady weight on the second half of my thru hike, eating about 7000 calories per day including town stops, no zeros and averaging 31mpd. (I was 6'2", 175lb during this period.)
aquaman1208
12-18-2011, 18:51
I think I like the expression "morde goozid".
Creek Dancer
12-18-2011, 19:18
For planning purposes, 3500/day works well for me in warm weather, 12-15 miles per day. For longer distances and colder weather I need to add more food. And, as you know, I'm in the 99th percentile of female height distribution. Most women could probably cut back to 2500-3000 per day for moderate backpacking trips.
What's surprising is how much food even 3500 calories turns into. A typical Mountain House meal is around 500 calories. So if I pack a MH breakfast and supper, I'm still only at a thousand calories. Energy bars are usually only around 250-275 each. So eight energy bars plus two MH meals would still only get me to 3000 calories. Packing high-fat foods really helps--peanut butter, summer sausage, hard cheese, nuts, coconut...
One good way to take in calories is through liquids--hot cocoa, energy drinks, Muscle Milk, and so on.
I'm often amazed to see hikers making themselves one packet of instant oatmeal for breakfast. Are you kidding? Even for someone with a desk job that would be a starvation diet.
Great, I will plan for about 3,000 per day. You are right about the liquid drinks. I like instant breakfast made with Nido and some extra protein powder, which is about 300 calories per drink. I will often have this in addition to oatmeal or whatever I am having for breakfast. Nice boost of hydration, vitamins, and protein to start the day. Someone on another thread mentioned adding instant coffee to the mixture, which would be great because i wouldn't have to fire up the stove in the morning to make coffee.
RockyRoo
12-18-2011, 23:50
BUGGER!!! I'm 48 Kilos, so any weight loss could be dangerous for me. I've always been tiny, so the prospect of loosing too much weight is something I've always had to be cautious about. Cheers Marta for the advice regarding calories, I'll try and aim for something similar on my thru next year. I always carry my dad's old army amunition pouch full of chocolate and nuts so it's easy access and just eat while walking.
BUGGER!!! I'm 48 Kilos, so any weight loss could be dangerous for me. I've always been tiny, so the prospect of loosing too much weight is something I've always had to be cautious about. Cheers Marta for the advice regarding calories, I'll try and aim for something similar on my thru next year. I always carry my dad's old army amunition pouch full of chocolate and nuts so it's easy access and just eat while walking.There are plenty of tiny hikers out there. It's like Garlic says--eat more, and if you notice yourself losing weight, lightwn your pack and shorten your hiking days.
garlic08
12-19-2011, 09:54
BUGGER!!! I'm 48 Kilos, so any weight loss could be dangerous for me. I've always been tiny, so the prospect of loosing too much weight is something I've always had to be cautious about. Cheers Marta for the advice regarding calories, I'll try and aim for something similar on my thru next year. I always carry my dad's old army amunition pouch full of chocolate and nuts so it's easy access and just eat while walking.
Ditto what Marta says--don't let this thread scare you. Weight loss is not imperative on the AT, if you're a little bit smart about it. I weighed 150 at the start of the hike (five pounds above my minimum), went down to minimum after the Smokies, gained it back in the mid-Atlantic (lots of easier days and better access to towns), lost a few pounds in the Whites, and weighed 148 when I got home.
I never carried more than two pounds of food per day (about 4000 kcal), and hiked an average of 20 miles per day. I ate very well in towns, going for quality more than quantity. My town food expenses were about $750, nearly what I spent on trail rations, about $800.
Eating all the time is a good plan. I pretty much forget about meal times. I stop four or five times a day, every two hours or so, to eat as much as I can. Nuts and nut butters are excellent for good fat and easy to find and to carry. Cheese is readily available on the AT, especially some really good local stuff in Vermont. I'm a vegetarian, didn't do any mail drops, and had very few problems buying suitable food along the way.
There are plenty of tiny hikers out there. It's like Garlic says--eat more, and if you notice yourself losing weight, lightwn your pack and shorten your hiking days.
I'm wondering ... Given same person, route, pack weight, etc, is there a difference in caloric expenditure if one hikes 20 miles in 10 vs 8 hours? I'd think you'd burn fewer calories by using rest steps on steep hill climbs, vs grunting it out to the top, taking more rest stops ... Still get the mileage, but with fewer calories and impact on body?
garlic08
12-19-2011, 12:14
I'm wondering ... Given same person, route, pack weight, etc, is there a difference in caloric expenditure if one hikes 20 miles in 10 vs 8 hours? I'd think you'd burn fewer calories by using rest steps on steep hill climbs, vs grunting it out to the top, taking more rest stops ... Still get the mileage, but with fewer calories and impact on body?
I've wondered about this too. I think it depends on how efficiently the person is hiking.
There's a real good possibility that the slower speed could actually burn more calories. If you're hiking slower than an optimum speed, you're spending more time on the trail and are burning more calories just by being idle. I notice this when hiking with a slow party. I'll often need to bring a lunch for a trail I would normally hike in a few hours by myself.
But if by pushing a faster time you start stumbling, gasping, making mistakes, you're not hiking well or efficiently and are definitely using more fuel. And stumbling leads to injuries and impact, etc. That's part of the wisdom of HYOH--Hike Your Own Hike.
I doubt that there is much difference in calorie burn between 2 and 2.5mph. I do think that Garlic is correct about efficiency. I think experienced hikers will burn less calories than newer hikers. Why? Efficiency. When I was in WA I passed a weekend hiker that said "You're a thru-hiker aren't you?" even though there was few thrus in the areas. When I asked him how he knew he said that thru hikers walk differently. Then I started watching the difference in hiking stride and style between thru hikers and the weekend hikers. It was amazing to see, thru hikers have very little wasted effort. Now on the AT I can usually pick out the thru hikers without using my sense of smell.
I doubt that there is much difference in calorie burn between 2 and 2.5mph. I do think that Garlic is correct about efficiency. I think experienced hikers will burn less calories than newer hikers. Why? Efficiency. When I was in WA I passed a weekend hiker that said "You're a thru-hiker aren't you?" even though there was few thrus in the areas. When I asked him how he knew he said that thru hikers walk differently. Then I started watching the difference in hiking stride and style between thru hikers and the weekend hikers. It was amazing to see, thru hikers have very little wasted effort. Now on the AT I can usually pick out the thru hikers without using my sense of smell.
Loved what you said. Efficiency is the key.I think optimum speed for hikres is different and as we hike longer ( in matter of weeks to months ) the efficiency increases.
garlic08
12-19-2011, 13:56
I doubt that there is much difference in calorie burn between 2 and 2.5mph. I do think that Garlic is correct about efficiency. I think experienced hikers will burn less calories than newer hikers. Why? Efficiency. When I was in WA I passed a weekend hiker that said "You're a thru-hiker aren't you?" even though there was few thrus in the areas. When I asked him how he knew he said that thru hikers walk differently. Then I started watching the difference in hiking stride and style between thru hikers and the weekend hikers. It was amazing to see, thru hikers have very little wasted effort. Now on the AT I can usually pick out the thru hikers without using my sense of smell.
Exactly. Sit trail-side on a rocky stretch in PA in thru hiker season. I think experienced, efficient hikers burn far fewer calories than the average. I read sometimes that thru hikers should plan on carrying up to 6000 calories per day. Not for me--that much food would actually hurt, both in the eating and the carrying.
Another big factor is planning. Most backpackers end their trips with an extra day's worth of food, up to several pounds. Some plan it that way. (I love running into those folks near the end of their trip and they're handing out extras.) I consider it a triumph to eat my last cashew or tortilla a few hours before I get to town, and get to town hungry (I'm not afraid of being hungry for a few hours and that's a tough fear to overcome, I know). That's several pounds I lightened my load for the trip, and less energy I needed to carry it, so less food I needed to carry...you get the idea.
PS--For those with devices which can utilize apps, it's quite interesting to track calories, and to see how that varies with different types of exercise. The one I'm using now is My Fitness Pal, which has a very good food database. It is, alas, wildly optimistic about the the number of calories I use when backpacking. It told me that I would use 4300 calories in seven hours of backpacking. I wish! That's actually quite a bit more than experience shows me I will actually use.
That is an interesting app. I loaded it to my droid, and entered the food I had outlined in my most recent blog post on "Eating Like a Hobbit" and found I was planning to consume nearly enough calories to cover what it said I'd burn by backpacking 8 hours - 4897 calories. I updated the post to reflect these numbers ... www.laughingdog.com