View Full Version : drop outs
taylorbena
03-09-2005, 23:28
what do you speculate is the reason that so many people drop out during the frist few weeks, if not days on the trail (Im going to start my thru hike on this Sunday and Im really curious/nervous about this)?
SGT Rock
03-09-2005, 23:36
Not finding what they expected on the trail.
smokymtnsteve
03-09-2005, 23:44
I think a lot of folks also start out to fast...too excited and want to start making miles,,,start out slow and easy, enjoy yourself ,,,in a few weeks U will be more familiar with your gear and in better shape and then U can make some miles.
Probably cause it's rather hard, and quite boring.
That said, you must find your own inner motivation to succeed. It worked for me cause I'm really really stubborn.
Sleepy the Arab
03-10-2005, 00:10
Not only is it hard and boring, it can be cold, you can be guaranteed some sort of discomfort somewhere (usually, but not limited to, the feet, back, shoulders or legs) for the next six months, and the food is lousy. The spectacular sunsets are few, the rain can seem interminable - and often cold, and the only thing one can sleep on that is harder than the ground is the floor of a shelter. Animals will constantly try and get your lousy food when you set it upon the ground. And every week, you will find yourself in a hostel or hotel with a bed that feels too luxurious for kings that will try and lure you away from this hike.
Is it worth it? Unequivocably yes. But realize that a thru-hike is not a vacation. It is a calling, and a hard one at that.
Footslogger
03-10-2005, 00:31
what do you speculate is the reason that so many people drop out during the frist few weeks, if not days on the trail (Im going to start my thru hike on this Sunday and Im really curious/nervous about this)?====================================
Well ...in 2003 it was the near constant rain. I think it rained 21 days in a row in April and May. It really wore some hikers down and tested the ability to tune out the weather and keep on hiking.
In general though I believe that the most common reason for hikers quiting in the first several weeks, other than injury, is finding out that the hike wasn't what they expected.
'Slogger
AT 2003
Mountain Dew
03-10-2005, 00:35
Many many reasons can be mentioned to answer this question. The biggest reason is that people find it harder than they had expected and they aren't willing to endure the initial hardship of being a newbie long distance hiker.
They read bill bryson and didn't recognize the trrail they read in the book.
wbdent They say that a lot of it is psychological. People get out on the trail for a bit and start missing their loved ones and friends. For younger people it is there first time away from family and friends. This seems to make a lot of sense to me. Of course there are all the other reasons like to hard, boring, sick of the same thing day in and day out ect…
Lone Wolf
03-10-2005, 07:08
Being physically and mentally soft.
I want to underscore what Sleepy the Arab said. Georgia, NC, TN can be brutally cold and wet. In 1984, I started on April 16th with a couple that had trained for a year and a half, and had everything planned out (overplanned, I would say) - after six days of cold rain, sleet, lightning on the ridge, gale winds, relentless ups and downs, no green at all, just drab grey/brown woods, they quit well before the NC border. Only the truly obsessed (me and other real thru hikers) continued on. If your motivation is lukewarm, you have very little chance of going the distance.
Because there's nothing romantic about slogging up hill in a cold, hard rain.
I's not rocket science, you know.
Cheers,
PKH
MileMonster
03-10-2005, 08:23
I agree with alot of what has been said. The start can be emotionally difficult for many. Hikers try to shed their old life, try to deal with homesickness and being away from loved ones. Everything is new and hard to get used to. The food is different, sleeping can be difficult. There is also alot of pain in the beginning. I often joked during the first month that something always has to hurt. If I had ankle pain, when it got better something else would start to hurt for a few days. Then there's the physical work of hiking. No matter how good or light your gear is, you still have to walk and haul it up the Trail. I think alot of folks have a difficult time getting used to this idea, that hiking is alot of hard work.
With all this swirling in the hiker's mind and body, I think early on many hikers can feel the enormity of the AT bearing down on them. Hikers freeaze and sweat their uncomfortable way up the Trail and find themselves only 30 miles north of Springer at Neels Gap. Early in the hike, if you allow yourself to dwell on the 2100-mile whole of the task, the AT can feel oppressive.
My humble advice would be to relax and enjoy the infinite small rewards the Trail has to offer - a rest on a hill top, a shelter out of the rain, the warm feeling of your sleeping bag, the quiet of the woods. Think about making the next resupply or trail town, not how far you've gone as it relates to the whole. Make it to Neels Gap, then the Blueberry Patch, Franklin, NOC, and then you're already at Fontana and the Smokies! Soon you'll be thinking of how short the hike will last.
Good luck. Enjoy every step.
John Breed
03-10-2005, 09:13
Speculation of why people succeed rather than drop out would be a better starting point. Focus, Training mental and physical, Confidence,The challenge and most of all wanting to be out there doing it.
Speculation of why people succeed rather than drop out would be a better starting point. Focus, Training mental and physical, Confidence,The challenge and most of all wanting to be out there doing it.
I would agree. I can be a stubborn SOB. That worked towards my advantage during a hike. Someone who has a track record of giving up easily probably shouldn't expect to finish a thru-hike.
Announcing to folks that I was gonna finish the trail helped me too. I can be prideful, and I didn't want to go home and say that I couldn't accomplish what I said I would.
Of course, I was always an ankle or knee twist from going home, so completing a thru-hike takes a bit of luck. A tiny deer tick or mosquito could just as easily end or interrupt a hike.
magic_game03
03-10-2005, 09:33
humm, so many drop off?
I put money that more people drop off (percentage wise and number wise) on the first week of march. I think this topic is over rated and too many poeple who aren't hiking are sitting around and talking about statistics that they don't know squat about. A few people have taken a break this year for a few days but so do march and april starters.
what do you speculate is the reason that so many people drop out during the frist few weeks, if not days on the trail (Im going to start my thru hike on this Sunday and Im really curious/nervous about this)?
It's estimated approx. 30% drop out of their THRU - HIKE in the first 30 miles....by Neels Gap/Walasi-Yi Center.
Their reasons? As varied as the hikers, themselves.
Harder than they thought, not in shape enough, blisters,blisters,blisters,
too much weight,too many miles, too early,...etc.,etc.,etc
good luck with yer hike! :D
Youngblood
03-10-2005, 09:37
I agree with alot of what has been said. The start can be emotionally difficult for many. Hikers try to shed their old life, try to deal with homesickness and being away from loved ones. Everything is new and hard to get used to. The food is different, sleeping can be difficult. There is also alot of pain in the beginning. I often joked during the first month that something always has to hurt. If I had ankle pain, when it got better something else would start to hurt for a few days. Then there's the physical work of hiking. No matter how good or light your gear is, you still have to walk and haul it up the Trail. I think alot of folks have a difficult time getting used to this idea, that hiking is alot of hard work.
With all this swirling in the hiker's mind and body, I think early on many hikers can feel the enormity of the AT bearing down on them. Hikers freeaze and sweat their uncomfortable way up the Trail and find themselves only 30 miles north of Springer at Neels Gap. Early in the hike, if you allow yourself to dwell on the 2100-mile whole of the task, the AT can feel oppressive.
My humble advice would be to relax and enjoy the infinite small rewards the Trail has to offer - a rest on a hill top, a shelter out of the rain, the warm feeling of your sleeping bag, the quiet of the woods. Think about making the next resupply or trail town, not how far you've gone as it relates to the whole. Make it to Neels Gap, then the Blueberry Patch, Franklin, NOC, and then you're already at Fontana and the Smokies! Soon you'll be thinking of how short the hike will last.
Good luck. Enjoy every step.
Great post!
I'd like to re-emphasis something I think is very important in keeping your heart in the hike... break it down in to small, more manageable hikes, like MileMonster said: "to the next resupply or trail town." Katahdin (or Springer) will be waiting for you when you get there. Have fun and enjoy the adventure along the way because it is that journey that will define YOUR thru-hike.
Youngblood
what do you think are the expectations hikers have about the trail? when some who drops says it's not what they thought it would be, what do they mean?
what do you think are the expectations hikers have about the trail? when some who drops says it's not what they thought it would be, what do they mean?
That it's gonna be a joyful fun-filled experience from start to finish. There is certainly lots of fun & joy in a hike, but between those moments there can be some pain & frustration.
For me the reward was almost always worth the effort, but working for the reward was sometimes difficult.
SGT Rock
03-10-2005, 10:06
what do you think are the expectations hikers have about the trail? when some who drops says it's not what they thought it would be, what do they mean?
That could be different for each person. I think one of the good things that Bill Bryson's book about the AT talks about is this subject. Of course I think that this subject is so well covered in his book because he quit too. :(
I mean for some it could be they got hurt and didn't expect it. They got colder than they expected. They had to work harder than they expected. They missed conveniences more than they expected. They missed their other life more than they expected. The woods were not what they expected. The community was not what they expected. The gear was not what they expected. The pain was not what they expected. Who knows? But the discussions often remind me of discussions of soldiers I have had to Chapter out of the Army for various reasons. I would just say based on my gut feeling that a hiker that quits probably expected something and left for something they didn't expect. I doubt very few, if any, people start the trail intending to quit. :-?
I imagine that it's because by around the 4th day they have already had several frightening bear encounters, have almost stepped on several snakes, have a horrible case of chigger bites in their crotch, are very afraid of the stranger they inadvisably hooked up with back at Springer. Their feet probably hurt by now, their knees are turning to mush, they forgot to pack a change of underwear and due to the aforementioned chigger problem are afraid to go commando during a laundry break. Besides, going commando seems a really bad idea because that stranger from Springer mountain just produced a very large jar of veseline and the trail is about to dive back into some very dark woods....
jmaclennan
03-10-2005, 10:34
besides people having a tendency to give up too easily, i'd agree that it is mostly misinformed expectations that cause people to drop out. that said, it is nearly impossible to know what it will be like before you go. a thru-hike is verrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrry long and hard . it's not like a bunch of weekend trips strung together. it's entirely different. still, as most drop out quite early, they must have either gotten hurt or have no clue what they're getting themselves into. or, like LW said, they're soft.
i think most people know very quickly whether it's for them (and only a bad injury or something will make them stop) or it's not (and they bail at the first road crossing). you'll see.
SGT Rock
03-10-2005, 10:38
Well, it could be said that unless you are the sort of person that enjoys pushing through stuff like that, that you won't find any pleasure in hiking for that long. And if you don't enjoy it in some way, then why do it? Maybe quitting is the correct thing for a lot of people.
I think that the big reason folks drop out is that it's a lot harder than they thought.
I was 66 years old when I did my thru and said: "It was the hardest job I ever had."
At times when I felt like giving my hike up, I would think of all the folks before me that did a thru. People older than me, folks with disabilities and with far worse equiptment than I had. I felt that if they could do it I could too.
A lot of hikers leave the trail, in the begining, without even giving themselves the opertunity to get into "thail shape". Once you get to that point, you know you can do the whole trail.
Happy trails
Footslogger
03-10-2005, 11:27
what do you think are the expectations hikers have about the trail? when some who drops says it's not what they thought it would be, what do they mean?=================================
The hikers I personally spoke with in 2003 who left the trail in the early weeks told me that they were demoralized and discouraged. Specific complaints ranged from pain/exhaustion to being overwhelmed by the weather. I remember one hiker saying that being away from home/family was more than they could handle.
Despite the many years of hiking experience I had (including having done all of the Georgia section several times) I have to admit that after a couple weeks of getting up every day, pulling on wet and smelly clothes and hiking 12 - 15 miles loses its charm. Every time I encountered something out of the ordinary, like 21 days straight of rain or back to back climbs I remember thinking to myself (and sometimes saying out loud) ..."this sure wasn't in the brochure the ATC sent me !!"
In looking back on my hike I would say that what kept most hikers on the trail was attitude and flexibility. I think everyone who sets out to hike the AT sees themselves climbing Katahdin (or Springer, if you're going south) somewhere in the back of their mind. And yet there was a noticeable difference among the hikers I met in 2003. If you can't adapt and adjust to varying and sometimes extreme conditions/changes and manage to smile and laugh it off there's a fairly good chance you're not going to make it all the way. All the pre-hike conditioning and reading can't prepare a person for the reality of day to day hiking over that long of a period of time.
'Slogger
AT 2003
One of the reasons I believe some finish, and others don't--the finishers often have a fantastic sense of humor. There are just way too many things that happen during a long-distance hike you gotta laugh about. Otherwise you'd cry.
Jack Tarlin
03-10-2005, 15:23
I think there are some excellent comments on this thread; I particularly liked Bob Fowler's, where he said that the Trail is simply a lot harder that most foks envisioned.
In my experience, while people quit for all sorts of reasons: Injuries, homesickness, fatigue, illness, exhaustion of funds, etc., I think the main reason people don't finish a thru-hike is that they're simply not having any fun: The trip fails to live up to their expectations, mainly because they had completely unrealistic expectations from the outset. Lost of folks set out with this rose-tinted, overly romanticized picture of what thru-hiking life is like. They've seen too many National Geographic specials or read too many glossy magazines. They think every day will be hiked in glorious weather, will start with a perfect sunrise, will be a joy to hike thru, will pass waterfalls and vistas every hour, will include an endless parade of wildlife, flowers, and Edenic bliss, and will then end with a spectacular sunset from a rocky outcrop, in the company of some hottie who looks like an L.L.Bean model.
Keep dreaming.
Will most of your days be good ones? Yes, they will, but these glossy magazines never talk about some of the harsher realities of expedition-length backpacking: Sunburn; insect bites; indescribably painful chafe or other skin ailments; a variety of foot problems, all of them painful.
You will spend perhaps a third of your trip in weather that's either so-so, threatening, or downright awful. You'll spend a significant ammount of time wishing it was drier or warmer; you'll spend an equal ammount of time in other places wishing it was wetter or cooler.
You WILL get hurt, sooner or later, and may, in fact, spend a significant ammount of your trip either in pain, or at the very least, either recovering from, or dealing with some sort of injury or physical complaint.
Wow, I just re-read all of the above, and it makes the Trail sound like an endless horror show, which of course, it isn't. My point was that Nova or Outside Magazine never tells you about most of the things you'll likely to encounter, such as the joys of finding worms in your food, or having three toenails fly off when you remove your socks, or how much fun it can be hiking in 23 consecutive days of rain.
Fact is, most people fail to complete long-distance hikes because they simply have an inaccurate and overly romantic perception of what it's going to be like, and the first time it's NOT what they've been expecting, they can't deal with it they go home. (I also think many folks quit too easily and too soon; when it gets really tough, they should probably take some time off to rest, eat well, talk to loved ones, and re-evaluate, rather than throwing in the towel and giving up the first time they're really tired, really wet, really sore, etc. The first few weeks can be VERY tough for many folks, but this period doesn't last long....get thru it, and your chances of completion go up dramatically).
I've frequently said that three things are necesary for a successful thru-hike:
*Retain an ability to be flexible; roll with the punches;
be prepared to do things differently than you'd originally
planned.
*Maintain a sense of humor. Without it, you're done.
*Get as informed as possible BEFORE your trip,so you
actually have a good idea of what it's really like out
there. Talk to former thru-hikers. Spend time at edu-
cational websites. Read some good books. Get informed
on equipment. But most important of all, the best way
to prepare to spend a great deal of time in the outdoors
is to spend as much time as you can in the outdoors. If
possible, try and take at least one long (at least 2 weeks)
hike before you leave for Maine or Georgia. Learn about
your gear. Get comfortable being in the woods and
mountains. Get used to being by, and relying on,
yourself. Get used to bad weather, to aches and pains,
to the frequent hard day and the occasional awful one.
It all comes down to this: The best way of increasing
your odds of completing a long hike is to make sure you
have a realistic idea of what you're likely to encounter
once you're actually out there.
Footslogger
03-10-2005, 15:37
You WILL get hurt, sooner or later, and may, in fact, spend a significant ammount of your trip either in pain, or at the very least, either recovering from, or dealing with some sort of injury or physical complaint.
============================================
....and that's from personal experience, correct Jack ??
'Slogger
Some excellent, excellent, excellent advice from many people. Wow! This thread is a keeper.
I really don't have too much too add. The many excellent posts summed up what I was going to say (expectations did not match up with reality, missing loved ones, etc.), but I do have one little nugget to add.
I've always said that it seems most successful thru-hikers have an odd mixture of stubborness and flexibility (with a strong does of humor) thrown in.
You have to be stubborn to walk XX miles a day for XX months.
You have to be flexible to alter your plans and prep work as the trail, weather and other circumstances dictate
You have to have a good sense of humor. Easy to get down about about your Nth dish of Liptons..or you can make a (usually for me!) bad joke about it.
Damn...I want to get out there again...and soon!
Spirit Walker
03-10-2005, 16:03
Often people who knew we had hiked the trail said, "That sounds like a lot of fun." and we would laugh. Although there are fun moments, thruhiking is not, in itself, fun. It's hard work. But for some of us, it is happiness. Big difference. Overcoming physical and mental challenges makes some of us happy. Living a very simple life, surrounded by nature, makes some of us happy. Walking all day every day, rain or shine, makes some of us happy. But it isn't always fun.
Footslogger
03-10-2005, 16:04
Damn...I want to get out there again...and soon!=========================================
You and me both !! ...can't wait for May to get here.
'Slogger
jmaclennan
03-10-2005, 16:14
several posts have mentioned expectations. i already said that i think it's impossible to know exactly what it will be like. it's not multiple weekend hikes strung together. therefore, how can one know what it will be like without having already done it? i realize you can be more or less prepared/informed, but i believe it is impossible, by definition, to know just how far 2,000 miles is and how hard it is to hike that far.
i believe expectations may have nothing to do with it. some are relatively very prepared (mentally and gear-wise) and still quit early on. some go on the spur of the moment and make it all the way. what separates those who make it from those who don't is attitude and flexibility (as several others have said). you either have it or you don't.
again, is it possible to have accurate expectations for something you've never done before?
Sleepy the Arab
03-10-2005, 18:14
I was in Virginia last year, somewhere north of Pearisburg. For the past month or so (since leaving the Humps) every day had some rainfall. After one particular day started out sunny, then clouded up and rained, became sunny and dried things off, then rained again, then became sunny, I turned to a hiking buddy and said, "It's hard to believe that the words 'clean' and 'dry' were ever invented."
what do you think are the expectations hikers have about the trail? when some who drops says it's not what they thought it would be, what do they mean?
I think a lot of people, when they visualize a hike from Georgia to Maine, picture a meandering path chock full of gentle ups and downs, a gentle sylvan stroll where one can commune with the wildflowers and Disneyesque mammals. Little do they realize that the trail, in fact, goes over every damn mountain between Katahdin and Springer - and a select few more than once. And sometimes it appears to swerve wide to the left or right to go over another freakin' mountain.
The previously mentioned gentle graded path in the woods exists for two miles south of Cooper Brook Falls Lean-to, one mile in Zealand Notch, a half mile south of Nuclear Lake, and about a half mile...er, where Virginia Map 1 becomes Virginia Map 2. What road is that? VA 670??
ARambler
03-10-2005, 19:36
There is a lot of good input in this thread. I'll try to make a few different, not necessarily better points.
1) I think a small but significant number of people do not intend to hike the whole trail. This ranges from section hikers who just want call themselves thru hikers for a week, to those who know they will not do the whole thing but have a large amount of time and want to see how far they can get, but they have not intention to make any extra effort to reach any milestone, let alone Katahdin.
2) Early injuries/starting physical condition can be catastrophic. Many people have bad knees or other problems that quickly become apparent. For some it can take too long to get in good enough shape, to hike the miles to get in shape. We have all hiked through blisters, but that does not mean everyone can handle the pain necessary for them to complete the hike.
3) People don't drop out as quickly as the posters suggest. The ATC now estimates that only 15 % of NOBOs drop out by Neels Gap. For a 22% completion rate, that means that 63% drop out (relatively) late. I don't think it is so important to make it to Neels Gap, I think it is important to be growing as a hiker by Neels Gap.
4) I agree with those that say there are a hundred major reasons for those who drop out. I think you must be ready to address which ever problems affect you. It is tempting to lump these issues and say things like "Hikers should be better prepared." or "Hikers should know what to expect.", but I'm not sure how easy it is to apply that advice. I, had already section hiked the whole trail, and I did not know "what to expect". My original supply plan had an extra months worth of food. This brings up the final point:
5) So what if you drop out? If you have committed only minimal planning, resources, and time, that may be plenty, or not nearly enough. Why not try? Good Luck.
Nightwalker
03-11-2005, 00:19
I imagine that it's because by around the 4th day they have already had several frightening bear encounters, have almost stepped on several snakes, have a horrible case of chigger bites in their crotch, are very afraid of the stranger they inadvisably hooked up with back at Springer. Their feet probably hurt by now, their knees are turning to mush, they forgot to pack a change of underwear and due to the aforementioned chigger problem are afraid to go commando during a laundry break. Besides, going commando seems a really bad idea because that stranger from Springer mountain just produced a very large jar of veseline and the trail is about to dive back into some very dark woods....
What trail were you on?
This is from my journal, Day 5 (of 178), April 20, 1984:
Rain. Cold rain soaked us as we hiked and lightning danced around not too far away. I involuntarily clenched my teeth when a bolt crashed not too far away, and I tried to avoid the puddles (potential conductors). I fell twice on a steep muddy downhill. Passed Wayne and Pat and we exchanged "depression" stories. Pat said that shin splints, bleeding blisters, etc made her cry last nite and said "Forget the schedule." Wayne said everything he had was wet and later admitted that a bum hip joint pained him to the point of tears over one rocky section. "Screw the schedule," he said. I admitted having second thoughts on top of Blood Mtn when fatigue hit me after 12.8 miles [and a frigid sleepless night the night before]. I started thinking of the immensity of the journey ahead, and the suffering that I would do, and the comforts I would miss. I wondered to myself if I could finish. I had doubts.
(Pat and Wayne quit the next day. It rained (raw, cold rain) and/or sleeted 12 of the first 14 days I was on the trail. After that, the weather was better and I had the greatest 5 1/2 months of my life.)
Injuries, money problems, personal problems at home all take out a big chunk hikers. Some people get caught up in the "enchantment of the forest", they see the magazines with the pics of glorious weather,perfect time of year etc etc and begin to think that the "magical enchantment of the forest" will carry them on their way. When youre cold, out of food, have been soaked for days, bugs are eating you alive, just blown out a shoe........well, that enchantment doesnt seem so strong after all. You have got to get up each morning and keep pushing forward no matter what.
This is from my journal, Day 5 (of 178), April 20, 1984:
Rain. Cold rain soaked us as we hiked and lightning danced around not too far away.
This little tidbit reminds me a of joke. There is a whole series of "Why did the Chicken Cross the road?" jokes with the answer as told in certain style. My favorite was the Hemingway one.
Q: Why did the chicken cross the road?
A by Hemingway: To die. In the rain. Alone.
:)