View Full Version : To TP or not to TP?
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 18:05
I've read books that say a range of different things regarding toilet paper on the trail. Some say to carry biodegradable hikers' TP and bury it. Others say that even biodegradable TP is bad for the environment, and that you have to pack out all TP if you want to use it. Still others say you shouldn't bother at all, and to use leaves and what not. I'm a girl who loves the little luxuries in life like fluffy toilet paper, but I'm not sure I'm brave enough to pack out used tissue. How have some of you handled this dilemma in the past?
Majortrauma
12-27-2011, 18:24
Can't wait to see how this thread deteriorates into complete insanity.
It's not a matter of being brave if you pack out used TP, it's wholly unnecessary, ridiculous and quite disgusting.
TP is a whole lot better than leaves in terms of keeping your body clean and not fouling the air of those around you.
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 18:41
It's not a matter of being brave if you pack out used TP, it's wholly unnecessary, ridiculous and quite disgusting.
TP is a whole lot better than leaves in terms of keeping your body clean and not fouling the air of those around you.
so you don't think biodegradable toilet paper affects the environment negatively?
mountain squid
12-27-2011, 18:57
Here's (http://atconf.org/hiking/hiking-basics/leave-no-trace-practices) the ATC's take on it.
(:confused:Why'd you post this in the Female Forum? Guys use TP also . . . )
See you on the trail,
mt squid
how to hike (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?73587-how-to-hike)
some observations (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?14493-observations-from-fs42-(advice-for-first-week-on-trail))
dig a hole. poop in the hole. wipe your butt. use normal tp. put tp in hole. backfill hole. walk on.
Here's (http://atconf.org/hiking/hiking-basics/leave-no-trace-practices) the ATC's take on it.
(:confused:Why'd you post this in the Female Forum? Guys use TP also . . . )
See you on the trail,
mt squid
how to hike (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?73587-how-to-hike)
some observations (http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?14493-observations-from-fs42-%28advice-for-first-week-on-trail%29)
because she's a girl and some girls don't feel comfortable talking about their poop with guys.
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 19:10
haha sorry mountain squid!! i'll copy + paste on the regular forum. mostly it's bc i was embarrassed the guy i'm hiking with might see it...but i guess we might as well get it all out in the open air before we're on the trail together for months on end.
Majortrauma
12-27-2011, 19:10
so you don't think biodegradable toilet paper affects the environment negatively?
Not one iota. Your personal health and hygiene trumps any remotely possible damage to the environment.
Leaves will take a lot longer to disappear than biodegradable TP.
Don't worry about what others think about your personal decisions about defecating and the associated personal hygiene.
It's part of the hike your own hike philosophy.
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 19:10
because she's a girl and some girls don't feel comfortable talking about their poop with guys.
girls don't poop.
girls don't poop.
yes we do, it just smells like roses!
Not one iota. Your personal health and hygiene trumps any remotely possible damage to the environment.
Leaves will take a lot longer to disappear than biodegradable TP.
Don't worry about what others think about your personal decisions about defecating and the associated personal hygiene.
It's part of the hike your own hike philosophy.
well, now.. i wouldn't go that far. some people are lazy and don't want to bury it. i'm not happy when i see poop on or beside the trail.
Majortrauma
12-27-2011, 19:17
well, now.. i wouldn't go that far. some people are lazy and don't want to bury it. i'm not happy when i see poop on or beside the trail.
I agree with you there 100%. If you're really in need of dropping trou at least have the common courtesy to walk into the woods and do it. Short of a case of giardia, you know it's coming so start making preparations.
Mountain Mike
12-27-2011, 19:19
Dig a proper cat hole. 6-8" deep. Poop & add tp. find a stick add some of the soil you dug up & mix it up. It helps break up tp & aids in decomp. Finish filling in hole with rest of soil & use stiring stick as marker that hopefully no other hiker finds. If safe you can burn TP before you bury it depending on the soil composition. In Alpine areas I have carried it out.
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 19:25
Thanks for the advice! I should have called this thread AT potty training.
atmilkman
12-27-2011, 19:35
girls don't poop.
And little girls don't fart. Do you know why little girls don't fart?
It's because they don't get a butthole until they get married!
mountain squid
12-27-2011, 19:36
haha sorry mountain squid!! i'll copy + paste on the regular forum.No need to start another thread unless you really want to . . . . . . . I was just wondering . . . (if you do start another thread your trail name might become Poopy :rolleyes::eek: . . . )
See you on the trail,
mt squid
WingedMonkey
12-27-2011, 19:37
girls don't poop.
Based on my experience with female family members and an over loaded septic system they don't need to poop to waste toilet paper. Of course none of them would ever call it overuse or waste.
Based on my experience with female hikers they have a better since of thriftiness and what they are willing to carry. I'm not pleased however to see the popularity of so called "disposable" wet wipes. They last forever buried or exposed.
J. Foolery
12-27-2011, 19:52
No need to start another thread unless you really want to . . . . . . . I was just wondering . . . (if you do start another thread your trail name might become Poopy :rolleyes::eek: . . . )
See you on the trail,
mt squid
yea....not willing to take that chance- i haven't had good luck with nick names in the past. as soon as i posted that i'd start a new one, i decided against it! it seems that quite a few dudes are finding this thread on their own. should have known the boys would flock to the thread regarding nothing but **** :banana
p.s...atmilkman hit the nail on the head ;)
Stir Fry
12-27-2011, 21:02
Dig a proper cat hole. 6-8" deep. Poop & add tp. find a stick add some of the soil you dug up & mix it up. It helps break up tp & aids in decomp. Finish filling in hole with rest of soil & use stiring stick as marker that hopefully no other hiker finds. If safe you can burn TP before you bury it depending on the soil composition. In Alpine areas I have carried it out.
6" to 8" is not posable on most of the AT. The only problem is when people use the same area. I tend to go some time during the day.
Drop pack. walk into woods out of sight do what I have to cover with leaves. In all likly hood no one will be in this same sight for a long, long time. Anthing I do will be gone.
you never know. somebody else may have the same idea. don't be lazy. you can dig a 3" hole with the heel of your shoe. at the very least, don't cover it with leaves. then a person at least has a chance to see it before they step in it. the fact that you are covering it, in the woods, off the trail (and "out of sight" by your words), shows that you have at least some idea that what you are doing is wrong because you're trying to hide it. once again, don't be a lazy ass.
4eyedbuzzard
12-27-2011, 21:12
Dig a proper cat hole. 6-8" deep. Poop & add tp. find a stick add some of the soil you dug up & mix it up. It helps break up tp & aids in decomp. Finish filling in hole with rest of soil & use stiring stick as marker that hopefully no other hiker finds. If safe you can burn TP before you bury it depending on the soil composition. In Alpine areas I have carried it out.Maybe you can dig 6 to 8 inches deep in FL sand. Here in NH you'ld need a hammer, star bit, and a few hours of free time to do that in most places. Most of the time if you camp near a shelter even if you don't stay, there is a privvy. If you're regular, just use the privvy, usually there's one at every shelter. Otherwise just get a ways off the trail, scratch out a depression if possible and cover everything including paper with dirt and leaves.
Mike2012
12-27-2011, 21:38
I always put a rock, a log or some crossing sticks on top of the hole as well.
swjohnsey
12-27-2011, 23:02
Mother nature recycle poop/pee in short order. TP, on the other hand . . . Put a handful of duff on it to speed up the process.
stonedflea
12-28-2011, 19:31
i used baby wipes my entire hike, but i packed them out. you can buy huggies at the dollar store for $2.50 and they are multipurpose... face wipes, butt wipes, and whore baths in your tent at night if you're too tired to walk to water, or if the water source is crappy. squeeze the water out of them to reduce weight before you pack them in.
you can also dehydrate them and store them dry in a ziplock and then wet the ones you need as you go.
dig a hole. poop in the hole. wipe your butt. use normal tp. put tp in hole. backfill hole. walk on.You are so blunt, honest, and right on! :)
Otherwise just get a ways off the trail, scratch out a depression if possible and cover everything including paper with dirt and leaves.Actually, studies are showing that TP breaks down faster closer to the surface than down in a deep earth covered hole. I used to observe the bury it 6 inches deep LNT rules, but have adjusted to scraping a little crater with my trowel and covering over lightly with leaves/pine straw to hide from sight only. I've heard some say if you don't bury it deeply animals will dig it up. First, I've never seen evidence of this, and second, I'd think that a few inches wouldn't make much difference even if animals did this.
4eyedbuzzard
12-28-2011, 20:57
Actually, studies are showing that TP breaks down faster closer to the surface than down in a deep earth covered hole. I used to observe the bury it 6 inches deep LNT rules, but have adjusted to scraping a little crater with my trowel and covering over lightly with leaves/pine straw to hide from sight only. I've heard some say if you don't bury it deeply animals will dig it up. First, I've never seen evidence of this, and second, I'd think that a few inches wouldn't make much difference even if animals did this.Well, as for finding and eating it, I can give eye witness reports that man's best friend is pretty good at finding and eating poop of almost any kind. Wild animals may be another story.
Mountain Mike
12-28-2011, 21:42
Well, as for finding and eating it, I can give eye witness reports that man's best friend is pretty good at finding and eating poop of almost any kind. Wild animals may be another story.
I found this out first hand too on my AT hike. Turns out our waste still has nutritional value for dogs. Admundson ( early artic explorer) found this out & made a snow cave for his men to use as privy with access for his sled dogs so they could clean it up.
Mountain Mike
12-28-2011, 21:53
Maybe you can dig 6 to 8 inches deep in FL sand. Here in NH you'ld need a hammer, star bit, and a few hours of free time to do that in most places. Most of the time if you camp near a shelter even if you don't stay, there is a privvy. If you're regular, just use the privvy, usually there's one at every shelter. Otherwise just get a ways off the trail, scratch out a depression if possible and cover everything including paper with dirt and leaves.
Whites are one area I have carried out tp where decent bury wasn't an option. Before I relocated to FL it was my favorite stomping ground. I helped with the airdrop of supplies for Ethan Pond Shelter composting privy & on another occasion helped a caretaker "manage" a composter at another site. Turns out I met his grandparents on my thru-hike.
Definately use privys when you can. Just try & be discrete when you don't have that option.
dig a hole. poop in the hole. wipe your butt. use normal tp. put tp in hole. backfill hole. walk on.
Here is a variation on this that is more friendly to the environment:
#1) dig a hole and poop. Wrap a few leaves in a tiny bit of TP - this will give it the "bulk" you are used to wiping with and use very little TP - bury well
#2) when you pee (if you are a girl), do the SHAKE and then wipe excess with a bandana - not wiping at all can lead to a yeast infection and other things that will cause you to use many more products that could be much more impactful
#3) Please DO pack out tampons and used pads -- I'd suggest a small paper bag (like from a liquor store) inside a ziplock for this purpose - you can keep the bandana in there too
sorry for posting on the girls forum girls but I ran wilderness outdoor programs for teenage girls (and guys) for 10 years and know this subject pretty cold.
J. Foolery
12-29-2011, 02:58
i had no idea this topic would be so hot! thanks for all the potty training tips, my friends. i'm a big kid now!
How wonderful, one of my favorite subjects. Most every shelter has a privy now and you can add to the TP there. I burn most my TP or carry my trash baggie to my spot when I don't use the privy. I'm already holding the TP and I can drop it in a shallow hole or into my trash baggie. I prefer to pack it out or burn it because I've seen soooo many barely dug, hardly covered holes, that are soon uncovered anyways by animals and all they leave behind is the TP. To me THAT is disgusting- and littering. To many people are happy with an out of sight (for the moment) out of mind (forever) attitude. And by the way, leaves belong in the woods. Paper, trash, etc. don't. As kids we didn't TP a house cause we thought they would appreciate it!
Slo-go'en
12-29-2011, 14:17
If you try wiping your butt with leaves, you will never do it again! Leaves are not absorbent and just smear the poop all over your butt and your in worse shape then when you started. However, when you get up north and Birch trees are more common, the inner layers of birch bark makes pretty good TP, as it has a tissue paper texture to it. Just don't peel it off a live tree. There is pleanty of it laying around on the ground. (Birch bark also makes exalent fire starter, even when wet).
If you need to poop in the woods, do it out of sight of the trail. The main reason for this is, even if you have not seen a single person all day, the moment you drop your pants, someone will come around the corner. This is seems to be especially true for woman.
wornoutboots
12-30-2011, 12:09
I suggest when you start you thru, to try to bury it as deep as you can. There are so many ppl hiking w/ dogs at the start that I've read more than one journal where the dog comes back with it all over them & then on everything they touch.
I suggest when you start you thru, to try to bury it as deep as you can. There are so many ppl hiking w/ dogs at the start that I've read more than one journal where the dog comes back with it all over them & then on everything they touch.
If all of us took a little responsability for, how shall I say, what we leave behind, it would be a better trail for everyone.
After completing a NOLS course, I find I'm no longer able to leave TP in the woods - just can't do it, even if it does break down just fine. I learned a zillion different options for TP when I was wilderness hiking. I was a fan of maple leaves after rain - like TP and a wet wipe all together!
I did carry small amounts of TP and used it when there was a privy, which was extremely often.
I packed out all wipes (love the term whore bath!)
I used a pee rag too - a very small piece of one of those camp towels. Kept in a zipper pocket of my pants. Washed it often. I was so into hydration that I swear sometimes I peed every twenty minutes. That would have been way too much TP to carry! :)
Do what makes the most sense for you! Best wishes!
Zipper
VA-ME VA-GA '09
Nutbrown
01-05-2012, 17:00
I hate biodegradable tp. too thin and leaves parts of itself behind. Now I bring wet wipes and pack em out or burn em. Coleman has biodegradable wipes that I recommend. Im thinking about getting a Pstyle for my bext hike.
Where's the third choice: "Use what you can get and bury it or toss it in the privy."??
All toilet paper is biodegradable. The stuff marked "biodegradable" may be slightly more so, or it might be a marketing ploy. Unscented paper is probably a little more natural than scented, white a bit more natural than pigmented, etc.
TP made from recycled paper goods at least gets recycled once. If sustainability of natural resources is important to you, you might want to go with recycled TP (and no, it wasn't TP the last time :p). :)
Btw: Why is this in the woman's forum? Guys use TP, too. :) ;)
rocketsocks
01-05-2012, 18:18
I use the "One Square method"here's how it goes.Take "One Square" of TP and tear a one inch hole in the middle of the paper,put the little circle of paper aside.Stick your middle finger through the hole.Clean your butt.Then draw the paper down the lenght of your finger,there by cleaning it.Then take that little piece you put aside and use that to clean underneath your nail.:D
I use the "One Square method"here's how it goes.Take "One Square" of TP and tear a one inch hole in the middle of the paper,put the little circle of paper aside.Stick your middle finger through the hole.Clean your butt.Then draw the paper down the lenght of your finger,there by cleaning it.Then take that little piece you put aside and use that to clean underneath your nail.:D
Isn't that classified US military information? (Not to mention - gross!)? :-?
rocketsocks
01-05-2012, 18:35
Damn didn't know about the classified thing:eek:"Butt"gross.:-?most definitely.;)
The "classified" thing is my attempt at sarcasm (something I'm not really good at :)). I heard that it's a joke known to many men in the service. I first heard it from a friend who was in the army during Vietnam.
This should remain classified at all costs.
I use the "One Square method"here's how it goes.Take "One Square" of TP and tear a one inch hole in the middle of the paper,put the little circle of paper aside.Stick your middle finger through the hole.Clean your butt.Then draw the paper down the lenght of your finger,there by cleaning it.Then take that little piece you put aside and use that to clean underneath your nail.:D
Isn't that classified US military information? (Not to mention - gross!)? :-?
rocketsocks
01-05-2012, 19:54
This should remain classified at all costs.Ya know I shoulda known somethin was up.the crazy vet that told me was kinda leanin in,talkin real soft,and when he finished showin me It was well kid now your a man go clean yourself up.HaHa LMAS......say can we keep this little incident between us?;)
1) Peeing: Girls shake and use a bandana
2) Pooping: Guys and girls wrap a tiny bit of TP around leaves to give bulk - bury well
3) Don't pee in privies - go before you poop because when you release the poop, the pee will come
4) Use duff in privy - re-fill duff buckets with organic matter
5) Girls carry a paper bag (liquor store size) inside zip lock for bandana and tampons and pads that need to be packed-out:cool:
6) Don't "go" on water source side of gaps, don't pee 25' of water, don't poop 100' of water if possible
rocketsocks
01-05-2012, 20:22
The "classified" thing is my attempt at sarcasm (something I'm not really good at :)). I heard that it's a joke known to many men in the service. I first heard it from a friend who was in the army during Vietnam.As did I.Really what I do is dependent on my mood.Some days it's a rap around the hand 50 times or wad it up and make a big catchers mitt.
PinkRaven
01-27-2012, 07:14
I like to pack out my TP. I take a 10 gallon garbage bag. I cover my dirty TP with clean TP. I place the TP at the bottom of the bag. I put a knot in the bag as close to the TP as possible. Then, it's sealed and ready for the next piece of TP. I find the method to be clean and environmentally friendly. I also like cushy TP that does the job. I also carry face cleaning clothes which I will clean my face with and then give the bum an extra wipe before I add it to my TP disposal bag. I never dump my TP disposal bag in a latrine. I always wait until I get to a proper waste disposal place.
PinkRaven
rocketsocks
01-27-2012, 09:41
Wow,I'm invisioning a string of pearls.pretty cool trick there Raven!
anjenaire
01-27-2012, 11:26
" like to pack out my TP. I take a 10 gallon garbage bag. I cover my dirty TP with clean TP. I place the TP at the bottom of the bag. I put a knot in the bag as close to the TP as possible. Then, it's sealed and ready for the next piece of TP. I find the method to be clean and environmentally friendly. "
Sounds like the diaper genie approach. Perhaps you could use that material, one long continuous tube, knot off and place inside a trash bag and place in proper receptacle.
I use biodegradable doggie bags at home while walking my pet. Perhaps I should bring some of these along on the next hike. I am usually able to make it between shelters unless sick but then again that is what that morning coffee is for ... the prime mover.
One word of caution to those of you who like to use leaves in place of TP, just make sure it is not poison ivy!!!
I learned a "trick" from deer hunters, started buying Marine TP, lighter (always good) and must bio-degrade a LOT faster............
beakerman
02-07-2012, 14:51
Those folks complaining about not being able to dig a proper hole...need to brushup on their LNT...in those cases you are supposed to pack it all out!
I personally drop, wipe, dig, scoot and bury....a bombadier I am not. If i am in an area that diging is not possible substitute scoop and pack for scoot and bury. If conditions allow I will light my TP to reduce it prior to bury.
Whatever I do, I send the coordinates to geocaching sites.
chiefduffy
02-11-2012, 09:03
My husband must love me very much - the first thing he gave me when helping stock my pack was TP.
chiefduffy
02-11-2012, 09:05
AND I'm posting here under HIS name...I'm supposed to be reading these threads to gather info about bras and undies and things he has no concern with on the trail...not running my mouth!