Not exactly UL but an awesome new idea in wood burning stoves

[Wise Old Owl]

http://vimeo.com/32822376

[4eyedbuzzard]

Really clever new technology (the heat to electric conversion) and a good looking design as well. Yeah, 2 lbs is a bit on the high end of the weight scale these days, but you don't need to carry fuel or spare batteries, so it really isn't all that bad. I don't think it will win over a lot of UL AT hikers as they have fuel, battery, and recharging resupply opportunities every few days, but it would be absolutely great for extended backcountry trips where both fuel weight and charging PED's can be a big issue.

[Wise Old Owl]

What I liked is they use the captured electricity to fan force air to increase the heated vapor or chimney effect... solving some issues I ran into some early tests.

[leaftye]

It's looking much more refined since the last time I saw it.

[azb]

My portable solar panel weighs 4ozs and makes more power under full sun. I can also strap it to the top of the pack and charge while walking. This stove is heavy and inefficient. Basically a gimmick. Az

[leaftye]

My portable solar panel weighs 4ozs and makes more power under full sun. I can also strap it to the top of the pack and charge while walking. This stove is heavy and inefficient. Basically a gimmick. Az

This stove works day and night.

[Grinder]

Price was $129 at web site.
Not bad in the land of trail pricing.

Grog like play fire

[4eyedbuzzard]

My portable solar panel weighs 4ozs and makes more power under full sun. I can also strap it to the top of the pack and charge while walking. This stove is heavy and inefficient. Basically a gimmick. AzAs leaftye noted, this stove will make power 24/7/365 (and cook your food) if you feed it fuel (that you don't have to carry). I haven't seen any solar panels that work well under forest cover, under clouds, in the rain, at northern latitudes in the winter, and um, I'm fogetting something, um, oh yeah, at night. I'm a pretty hard critic on most stuff. Is there room for improvement? Of course. But these guys have a product that has pretty big potential.

[4Bears]

I became aware of this about 6 weeks ago and have been waiting for BioLite to release the power output spec's. This is not a new technology but it seems they may have improved it, time will tell.

[Rocketman]

The raw energy density of petroleum and cellulose based fuels is much higher than the energy density of any battery. Typically, a battery works with just the energy of changing the orbital parameters of one electron in a chemical bond. Fuel, when combusted, breaks most of the existing chemical bonds and this releases ever more energy, so the (heat) energy per pound of a combustible fuel far outweighs the energy per pound of a battery.

However, conversion of the heat energy into, say, electricity is thermodynamically inefficient. But then too is the conversion of solar energy into electricity.

Perhaps we cn take the old fashioned idea of a bicycle based electrical generator and have a "First Wheel" (rather than a "third wheel") generator/charger that we backpackers can drab behind us.

Currently, it appears as if the attempts to generate electrical power in the woody wilderness are entertaining.

Over time, something useful will possibly happen.

The Biolite Stove/generator may be a very practical idea for someone car-camping in a remote area for a very long time. Except for cost, it might have some third world good applications as well.

[shelterbuilder]

This product certainly has potential in the Third World (if the price is right). For someone on the move in the wilderness with absolutely no contact with civilization (and not much sunlight overhead), it also looks good.

Time will tell....

[Slo-go'en]

Neat. Great idea

[shelterbuilder]

One of the things that was mentioned on their website was that they hope to use some of the money from the sale of the backpacking stoves to launch the Home Stove operations for the 3rd World. I could buy one just for that reason....

[Wise Old Owl]

I became aware of this about 6 weeks ago and have been waiting for BioLite to release the power output spec's. This is not a new technology but it seems they may have improved it, time will tell.

In light of Azb's post I would like the specs as well I am sure that they will be enough of an output. Have you PM'd them? if so PM me.

Oh and Azb - there is a good chance that there is a voltage regulator hidden inside the phone and inside the panel nowadays - to improve the flow of electricity to prevent over charging. So the more watts the panel generates - the more desirable it is. Yet with this new stuff it does not decrease the charge time - because its regulated.

[leaftye]

In addition to the power output characteristics, I also want to know how wood is fed to it. I don't see pictures of a bottom opening like on their bigger stove.

[shelterbuilder]

Down through the top opening, I suspect. Functional, similar to the Zip Stove idea, and for a small stove, probably the best way to utilize the stove's body to produce a chimney-effect.

[mkmangold]

I'm with Shelterbuilder on this: I may just buy one to support the social causes. I've used the Zipstove and Woodgas stove so this wouldn't be much of a stretch. Both of these use batteries anyways so running out of juice would no longer b3 a concern.

[Mundele]

I just can't get over the plastic box stuck onto the side of the stove body. That'll end badly. Looks like a case of form over function. They'd do better to keep the plastic box with electronics away from the stove body. I guess a single unit looks Better in the marketing photos...

--Matt

[shelterbuilder]

Not necessarily. This looks like a "chimney"-type of design, which will draw a large percentage of the heat upward, instead of allowing it to radiate outward (I've done this with woodburners myself). The perf-steel outer "skin" is probably spaced far enough away to keep the plastic cool enough to keep it from melting, while placing the heat-to-electricity converter close enough to function. The converter appears to be ventilated. And there ARE some plastics that have very high melting points. It might be a powder-coated metal; powder coatings typically fuse to the base metal at around 385* F, but there ARE some hi-temp coatings that melt at higher temperatures. (It might even be some sort of ceramic that looks like plastic in the pictures.)

I can't believe that any inventor - especially a "start-up" - would bring a new product to market that will fail within an unreasonably-short period of time. That's just "business suicide"!

[Slo-go'en]

This stove generates electricity using a Peltier junction, which requires one side to be hot and the other side to be cool. Therefore, they must have a way to keep the electronics side cool, or it would not work. My guess is the fan draws air down through the orange part of the shell (see the vent holes?), then blows the air up into the burner.

[shelterbuilder]

Well, I'm a self-confessed "gadget-freak", so if I can scrape together the cash, I might just buy one, even though my power needs on the trail are not (yet) beyond my capacity to carry some extra batteries. I guess that this could be interfaced with an NiMH charger somehow (no smart-phone yet).... After all - SOMEBODY here has to try the darn thing out and report back!

[Mountain Mike]

I want both! One for home & another for trail/base camping. Be cool to have a firepit at home that does more than just burn wood.

[leaftye]

Well, I'm a self-confessed "gadget-freak", so if I can scrape together the cash, I might just buy one, even though my power needs on the trail are not (yet) beyond my capacity to carry some extra batteries. I guess that this could be interfaced with an NiMH charger somehow (no smart-phone yet).... After all - SOMEBODY here has to try the darn thing out and report back!

Check out the chargers made by Cottonpicker on candlepowerforums.com.

[shelterbuilder]

Thanks. I found the site, but don't have time right now to explore it. I'm a gadget-freak, but a little slow when it comes to navigating around new sites!:rolleyes:

[Wise Old Owl]

I thought this was a cutting edge idea, I had no idea that this would get you all so excited.... awesome.... you go Shelterbuilder!

[shelterbuilder]

WOO - this has tremendous potential beyond the trail community. This is really cutting-edge alternative technology. I can't wait to see what some "lateral-thinking genius" does with this when he/she gets ahold of it. In conjunction with LED's and existing/emerging NiMH and Li-ion technology, this concept has the potential to revolutionize lighting and power storage around the world!

[Wise Old Owl]

As my workouts in the basement to improve my health, on the treadmill, and getting back on the trail - yea we got to do it....

[leaftye]

Thanks. I found the site, but don't have time right now to explore it. I'm a gadget-freak, but a little slow when it comes to navigating around new sites!:rolleyes:

Here's a link to the thread where he's selling the charger:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?229002-FS-Solar-Powered-amp-USB-Chargers-2-panels-added

(http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?229002-FS-Solar-Powered-amp-USB-Chargers-2-panels-added)That one is being sold with a solar panel, but I bet you can get him to sell it separately.

[shelterbuilder]

Here's a link to the thread where he's selling the charger:
http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?229002-FS-Solar-Powered-amp-USB-Chargers-2-panels-added

(http://www.cpfmarketplace.com/mp/showthread.php?229002-FS-Solar-Powered-amp-USB-Chargers-2-panels-added)That one is being sold with a solar panel, but I bet you can get him to sell it separately.

My laptop is doing funny things tonight, so I was only able to get through a few of the pages here, but I think that he will sell separately. However, a solar panel set-up would be useful for other locations....

Thanks.

[leaftye]

I'm planning on getting his lithium charger. I think I could use it to charge my cell phone battery, and I will also use it for a headlamp I'm getting that uses a lithium ion battery.

[Franco]

Interesting how members at other forums perceive the same product.
See for example :
http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html
under BackCountry Gadgets "wood stove /charging device"
Franco

[zelph]

OooohhhhhhAhhhhh, I want one made of titanium. Don't matter how much it weighs.

[Mountain Mike]

have to admire this guy for low tech/high tech solution. More so for third world countries

[tuswm]

Yeah, 2 lbs is a bit on the high end of the weight scale these days
can this make your pack more UL?
to add two pounds we need to find two pounds of stuff to leave at home

MSR pocket rocket 3 oz
full normal 8 oz canister 16 oz
batteries 4 oz
solar charger 4 oz
wall cell phone charger 4 oz

there you go , heavy is such a relative term

[tuswm]

Price was $129 at web site.
Not bad in the land of trail pricing.

Grog like play fire
I bet on a thru hike this could even pay for itself
$$disposable batteries?
fuel canisters? 22 weeks x 1 canister every 1.5 weeks x $6 = $90
denatured alcohols?
I know that none of you would ever admit to it but who here has ever used "i need to charge my electronics" as an excuse to get a hotel or hostel room.
white gas? what about a more expensive sit down mean next to an wall outlet in a restaurant.

[JAK]

Nice. I would rather see a decent DIY design though, with specs. For hiking electronics it would be nice to see smart phone, headlamp, camera, whatever all run off the same battery. I think for recharging, whatever battery can be most efficiently recharged quickly might be the way to go. Then I would use a flywheel type recharger that you could recharge with both arms in sitting up or standing up "arms only" rowing motion, with the recharger strapped to you feet. Either that or this peltier device with a wood stove. For solar charging, great in theory for trickle charging, but not really practical in the woods. For small amounts of energy, recharging in town is probably most efficient weight wise, but it is nice to be less dependant. My solution for that is no electronics, but a camera is nice.

Anyhow, it would be great if more products like this could be developed. You could always hack one apart to make it lighter. Nice to see some specs.

[leaftye]

I know that none of you would ever admit to it but who here has ever used "i need to charge my electronics" as an excuse to get a hotel or hostel room.
white gas? what about a more expensive sit down mean next to an wall outlet in a restaurant.

I hate that. It'd be nice if it were possible to fully charge all my electronics at once in half an hour, but it usually takes MUCH longer. Being tied to a wall outlet makes me feel trapped. I've been collecting extra batteries so that I can mail batteries home to get charged so I don't have to wait for them any more.

[LIhikers]

This device reminds me of a conversation I overheard while taking a lunch break near the top of NY's Bear Mountain. Two families were hiking down the trail with the 2 husbands at the back. They were discussing how much energy they could produce from all the "useless" duff on the forest floor if they could only find a way to harvest it. All I could think of is how the forest would change without all that useless duff.

[Slo-go'en]

I've been collecting extra batteries so that I can mail batteries home to get charged so I don't have to wait for them any more.

Humm, but now your commited to going to the post office all the time and think of all the extra money it will cost to mail them back and forth. And what happens if you under estimate the time between needing a recharged battery? Your going to have to carry a charger anyway.

[Slo-go'en]

I ordered a Peltier junction device yesterday to play with. Turns out they are quite inexpensive by themselfs. The need to heat one side and cool the other with the device only about 1/8" thick will be an interesting challenge. I'm thinking a metal can on one side to hold embers from a camp fire, then a heat sink in a pot of water on the other side for cooling.

[4eyedbuzzard]

Or just use a cooling fin set up on the cold side (like on a big microprocessor - you might even be able to use the pancake fan if it's a net plus on current output). Sandwiching the junction between a hot pot and cold pot could prove difficult (although the thermal capacity of cold water is obviously desireable) - you'll need to shape one of the pots to the curve of the other or use flat sided/square pots. Cool project, keep us informed.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well this really intregued the guys at the computer repair shop that I work with. Got their attention.

[Slo-go'en]

I got the Peltier junction device I ordered in the mail yesterday. Placed between two large CPU heatsinks and set on top of my propane room heater, I can get just enough power out of it to get a small motor to turn - after giving it a nudge to start turning. Bascially, I can get about 100 mW out of it, 1V at 100 ma, which isn't too useful as is. So, it looks like it will take several of these things wired in series to get a voltage high enough to work with and a way to maintain a good temperature differentual across them.

The commercial wood stove with thermal-electic generator which started this thread is looking more attractive. Certianly a lot easier.

[Wise Old Owl]

Well thank you Slo-go'en I was about to do the same - now that exsplains the blueprint in the video - its stacked peltiers! one between each fin....

Awesome.

[Kookork]

Do you think This campstove can be used in places that open fire is prohibited ( in dry season or in some national parks) or you think it is up to the law enforcement to interpret it base on their individual taste?

[tuswm]

many places use the words "no open fires" cooking with "camping stoves only" so I bet you could make your case and if anyone gives you a hard time i would think it wouldnt be more than a warning.


But good point.....

[Bearpaw]

My portable solar panel weighs 4ozs and makes more power under full sun. I can also strap it to the top of the pack and charge while walking. This stove is heavy and inefficient. Basically a gimmick. Az


Good luck ever finding full sun on the AT, especially while walking. Maybe the Presidentials if you catch one of the few days when it is actually sunny. I have yet to hear a thru-hiker give satisfactory results from a solar charger while walking. Recharge in town still rules (if you carry electronics other than a headlamp.)

[Franco]

I posted about this stove in several forums, including this one..., and as usual someone will point out that solar panels exist.(yes, they do)
However solar panels generally don't work on demand (you (theoretically at the moment) can light the Bio Lite and plug in your USB powered device and it will work) and you do need to charge an in-between battery in the meantime.
Now the problem is that you don't often walk away from the sun ,and on a sunny day and with the panel at the correct angle to be charged.
It also happens that (in my mind...) this could be a good solution for those guys that spend a week or two camping (hunters/survivalists, people needing a break from people) in a dense forest.
So wood and time would be plentiful, the sun not so much.
Franco

[mateozzz]

I can just imagine the shelters now, there would be 15 little burning stoves around them as everyone charges their phones or mp3 players. I'm guessing it would take several hours at max output to charge one, so it would be like a coal mine from all the smoke. Plus there would be fighting over the twigs around the shelter and accidental fires. Sounds great.

[JAK]

que the Police...

"Invisible Sun"


(One, two, three, four, five, six
Oh oh oh oh oh oh)

I don't want to spend the rest of my life
Looking at the barrel of an Armalite
I don't want to spend the rest of my days
Keeping out of trouble like the soldiers say
I don't want to spend my time in hell
Looking at the walls of a prison cell
I don't ever want to play the part
Of a statistic on a government chart

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

It's dark all day and it glows all night
Factory smoke and acetylene light
I face the day with me head caved in
Looking like something that the cat brought in

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

And they're only going to change this place
By killing everybody in the human race
They would kill me for a cigarette
But I don't even wanna die just yet

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

(Oh oh oh oh oh oh...)

[Kookork]

I posted about this stove in several forums, including this one..., and as usual someone will point out that solar panels exist.(yes, they do)
However solar panels generally don't work on demand (you (theoretically at the moment) can light the Bio Lite and plug in your USB powered device and it will work) and you do need to charge an in-between battery in the meantime.
Now the problem is that you don't often walk away from the sun ,and on a sunny day and with the panel at the correct angle to be charged.
It also happens that (in my mind...) this could be a good solution for those guys that spend a week or two camping (hunters/survivalists, people needing a break from people) in a dense forest.
So wood and time would be plentiful, the sun not so much.
Franco

Franco, I followed your complete and nice explanation on this campstove in other site an really enjoyed it,but since I am not a member there, here I say thank you whiteblaze style.

[Kookork]

que the Police...

"Invisible Sun"


(One, two, three, four, five, six
Oh oh oh oh oh oh)

I don't want to spend the rest of my life
Looking at the barrel of an Armalite
I don't want to spend the rest of my days
Keeping out of trouble like the soldiers say
I don't want to spend my time in hell
Looking at the walls of a prison cell
I don't ever want to play the part
Of a statistic on a government chart

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

It's dark all day and it glows all night
Factory smoke and acetylene light
I face the day with me head caved in
Looking like something that the cat brought in

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

And they're only going to change this place
By killing everybody in the human race
They would kill me for a cigarette
But I don't even wanna die just yet

There has to be an invisible sun
It gives its heat to everyone
There has to be an invisible sun
That gives us hope when the whole day's done

(Oh oh oh oh oh oh...)

There has to be an invisible sun
but shame no charge for solar junk

Does not rhyme very well but it is my best JAK

[Wise Old Owl]

I can just imagine the shelters now, there would be 15 little burning stoves around them as everyone charges their phones or mp3 players. I'm guessing it would take several hours at max output to charge one, so it would be like a coal mine from all the smoke. Plus there would be fighting over the twigs around the shelter and accidental fires. Sounds great.

Not very likley - the stove appears very efficient with the fan that improves gassification... the output to the phone is still a mystery - I suspect 1/2 watt - so no its early tech...