View Full Version : Exped synmat UL7 vs neoair pad question
Rick2world
01-06-2012, 20:10
Im looking for a three season pad. I'm a side sleeper And will not be using in weather conditions below 30 degrees.
With respect to comfort, how does the Neo air compare to the exped synmat pad. I currently have the BAC air core. The air tubes of the BAC are similar to the Exped. Is the comfort level of the BAC similar to the exped?
Would like to hear from other users what they think :rolleyes:
the "tubes" on the BAC are NOT similar chambers on the UL7 and are much more comfortable.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?72854-Exped-SynMat-UL-7-Air-vs.-Therm-a-Rest-NeoAir
I like vertical "tubes" better than horizontal. That makes both BA and Exped better for me... at least better than a Neo. I am also more comfortable on my Synmat than I ever was on an BA Insulated Air Core. I suggest heading to an outfitter. Your comfort level may not be similar to mine, so check out some gear at a brick and mortar. Bedding is always something I like to try before I buy.
RyanK817
01-07-2012, 01:22
I agree with Enic. I have an Exped UL7 and my wife has the BA Insulated Air Core. The Exped inflates & deflates exponentially faster and the material is much more comfortable, almost a little gel-like to the touch as compared to the IAC. As a side note, if you do get the Exped, I recommend the Exped mini-pump to go with it. It only weighs 1 1/2 ounces, makes inflation a breeze, and keeps all the condensation out. That would be my only con about the UL7: because of the larger inflation valve, I felt like it retained a lot more moisture than the IAC, and when it got down into the upper 30's it got pretty deflated during the night. Once I started using the mini-pump, though, I didn't have that problem again. The Exped is also lighter and packs smaller.
I moved from the Thermarest Neo to a foam, saved 8-10 oz. Just a thought...
8 oz =! 8 hours IMHO HYOH
You will get mixed answers on a question like this, as I am sure you already know. Considering this is a question of comfort, no one can answer that but you. We will all have our choice and we will all have a good reason for that. I would suggest trying to get a hold of one somehow, even if it is by going to a store that sells them and laying on them both. IMO, you should get a pretty quick answer. Or order them from a store that takes returned just in case you order one and don't like it, or think you may like the other one better...
Saying that, here is my answer...
For me, the horizozntal baffles on the Neo are much more comfy than the vertical chambers. I feel like I am sleeping on a pool toy when laying on vertical chambers. As well, the horizontal chambers feel more plush to me.
I will also say that I find even the 1.5" self inflators to be quite comfy, and here again, IMO they are more comfy than those with the vertical chambers.
I own the NeoAir, 2 self inflating pads and an Exped SynMat 7 (among several ccf pads). I have laid on the BA pads numerous times in stores and find them to feel the same as the Expeds, granted I have never slept a night on any of the BA pads.
Rick2world
01-07-2012, 20:12
Thanks for all the replies.
As suggested, I will try to go to a local outfitter and try both pads.
What about durability ? I know it's an oxymoron when were talking about UL pads . . .
I have read reports about delamination of the horizontal baffles on the Neo . Any views on this ?
kevperro
01-07-2012, 20:43
I own the new Exped UL7 but I've not had it out yet. Just giving it the living room test it is much more comfortable than my old 1" thick self-inflater, mainly because I'm a side sleeper and the 2.8" vs. 1" makes a big difference. The fabric feels/looks plenty good for normal use in a tent.
0
I got my neoair used at the REI attic sale. I have since put about 500 miles on it both in shelters and in a tent. no delamination issues. I get to sleep in a lot of different gear. different sleeping bags and sleeping pads. by far the most comfortable sleeping pad I have ever slept on was the neoair trekker Large. not a huge size or weight plenty over the regular neo. The regular neo is a real skinny pad. as a person with big shoulders back sleeping isnt that great on a reg neo. The picture show how much larger the UL7 is then the neo air with the same dimensions. the 20" width on the neo is uninflated, inflated it looses almost 2".
hunter121
01-07-2012, 23:24
He's the one on the right, twylight.
http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/20.creation.jpg
Rain Man
03-26-2012, 15:11
I purchased a VERY expensive ExPed SynMat UL 7 last week at REI, with my 20% off coupon and dividend and a store credit. Used it for the first and only night this weekend. Today as I was preparing to put it away, I noticed several of the strips of internal laminating were coming loose. And that's after a single night of use.
Needless to say, it's going straight back to REI and if the replacement does the same, I'll complain to ExPed and ask REI for my money back.
Rain Man
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Tipi Walter
03-26-2012, 16:22
Exped all the way. I used a NeoAir All Season for a 19 day trip and the horizontal baffles aren't as comfy as the Exped vertical. My go to winter pad is, of course, the Exped Downmat. Fantastic (until it blows a seam or leaks).
I purchased a VERY expensive ExPed SynMat UL 7 last week at REI, with my 20% off coupon and dividend and a store credit. Used it for the first and only night this weekend. Today as I was preparing to put it away, I noticed several of the strips of internal laminating were coming loose. And that's after a single night of use.
Needless to say, it's going straight back to REI and if the replacement does the same, I'll complain to ExPed and ask REI for my money back.
Rain Man
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I hope you just got a rare lemon. My kid is 28 days into his NB thru and is very happy with the UL 7. He does also carry the Gossamer Gear 1/8" pad for extra insulation and as a contingency in case of leakage.
A member over at BPL has just posted that his UL7 suffered a cut during the middle of the night. Obviously a small section of rock was protruding from the ground where his sleeping pad happened to be. The weird thing is that the rock did not damage the tent floor but somehow managed to cut the UL7...strange... Anyway, here is the thread if anyone is interested:
http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=61993
Rain Man
03-27-2012, 09:15
I hope you just got a rare lemon....
Me too!!! Otherwise, I like the thing. It's fairly thick (for a side sleeper like me, that's critical for comfort) and has a decent "R" rating for insulation. I wrote Exped yesterday and they replied immediately offering to replace it for me and stand behind the product, but in fact I returned it to REI last evening and got a replacement (as I told Exped I would do instead of mailing to them). Apparently this delamination is a known defect. It certainly should NOT happen after one night's easy use.
I'm going back out this weekend and will report back on whether this "lemon" was indeed a single lemon, or if it's a problem with the product.
To describe what's happening, the Exped fabric is extremely thin (you can see through the top side), and the top and bottom have a very thin layer of insulating material laminated to them. Those insulating layers apparently break loose along the seams of the internal "baffles" and fold back onto themselves. If it continued at the same rate as the first night, pretty soon I'd have just a bunch of flopping, loose insulation material inside each inflated tube, no longer insulating and doing me absolutely no good, while continuing to add weight to a now plain air mattress.
I'm thinking that as a hiker sleeps on the Exped and compresses (crushes) it, then on the inside the top and bottom layers of insulation rub against each other with great friction and one simply pulls the other loose as the hiker tosses and turns during the night. If so, either a design defect or a quality control defect.
Either way, the SynMat UL 7 M is a very high priced air mat and the design and quality should be just as high. No one should buy one on Thursday and have to return it on Monday.
Rain Man
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Thanks Rain Man. I emailed the kid your final paragraph so he can check it, although it sounds like it would be fairly obvious. Given his early start I expect he will meet with some more cold nights before he finishes, and losing the R-value would be no fun.
Rain Man
03-27-2012, 15:22
Thanks Rain Man. I emailed the kid your final paragraph so he can check it, although it sounds like it would be fairly obvious. Given his early start I expect he will meet with some more cold nights before he finishes, and losing the R-value would be no fun.
I have to say that Exped (and always the same person, a good sign) has emailed me several times. They are even getting the pad from the REI where I returned it last evening, so they can investigate. They say they've never seen or heard of a problem with the insulation coming delaminated, so they are gonna cut it open and see what's what. They even said they'd let me know.
I'm very impressed with their customer and product support so far.
Rain:sunMan
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Big Dawg
03-28-2012, 02:35
Based on recent threads about the Exped SynMat UL7, I had decided to switch up my wish list for a new pad, leaning towards the Exped instead of the new TR Xlite. Your recent Exped issue, Rainman, has put a damper on that thought process, thinking that the Xlite has no insulation to come loose. Ugghhhh,, the ever-evolving and much scutinized wish list. Rainman, what made you choose the Exped over the Xlite? Or was the Xlite ever on your radar?
Rain Man
03-28-2012, 06:22
Based on recent threads about the Exped SynMat UL7, I had decided to switch up my wish list for a new pad, leaning towards the Exped instead of the new TR Xlite. Your recent Exped issue, Rainman, has put a damper on that thought process, thinking that the Xlite has no insulation to come loose. Ugghhhh,, the ever-evolving and much scutinized wish list. Rainman, what made you choose the Exped over the Xlite? Or was the Xlite ever on your radar?
Not sure if I've ever heard of the TR Xlite. I did get a replacement SynMat from REI and will be using it this Friday night, so I might have another report. For what it's worth, Exped told me they have heard of a very few lamination problems with the SynMat, but all have to do with the tubes coming unglued (top comes unstuck from bottom) and causing a big bubble. They say my report is the first ever of the insulation coming loose. I asked them to let me know what they find out once they open the mat up. I'll keep you posted.
I chose the SymNat over the Neo Air because of the noise problem with the Neo Air. Plus, I have an Exped insulated with synthetic "down" and like it (but it is heavy).
Rain Man
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Big Dawg
03-29-2012, 00:54
Not sure if I've ever heard of the TR Xlite.
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Thermarest Xlite,, their newest neo air.
Big Dawg
04-24-2012, 01:06
I'm going back out this weekend and will report back on whether this "lemon" was indeed a single lemon, or if it's a problem with the product.
I'll keep you posted.
Any updates??
Exped Downmat 7 XS is so comfortable. I don't inflate it to full inflation. It seems to me all air mattresses are hard, if fully inflated. When I first tried it out on the floor, I found out it need very little inflation, even on my side my hip did not touch the floor. It was surprising how little inflation was necessary.
NeoAir XS is so nice in my pack and has very acceptable comfort. It is an odd surface. No complaints, just different. It is a pleasure to carry this one compared to the bulk of other type sleeping mats I have carried.
Stephenson's Warmlite (http://warmlite.com/) Down Air Mattress (http://warmlite.com/down-air-mattress-alone) looks interesting. Does anyone have experience with it?
Rain Man
04-24-2012, 10:12
Any updates??
Nope, but thanks for the reminder. I'll send them an email and ask.
Rain:sunMan
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Rain Man
04-25-2012, 10:10
Any updates??
Wrote and got a prompt reply yesterday. Basically, they say there really was no problem with the pad. Here's their reply:
"Thank you very much for the e-mail. Once we got a chance to evaluate this mat ....
"One major difference with our synthetically insulated mats and those produced by most other companies is that we weld the synthetic insulation to the top and bottom of the baffle. This forces the insulation to span the hole diameter of the baffle, thus mimicking the properties of down and offering a comparatively higher thermic value than if the insulation was only laminated to the top side of the baffle . Another result of this is that, when deflated, the excess insulation within the baffle may fold back onto itself, giving the appearance that it has actually detached from the shell fabric. Upon evaluating your mat, we found no actual weld or delamination damage, and the synthetic insulation spanned the width of each baffle as designed once inflated. It is an important aspect to understand, because depending on how the synthetic material folds onto itself in your replacement mat, you may see something very similar. I hope this info helps to clear things up, but please let me know if you have any questions."
Indeed, the replacement I got at REI appeared to do the exact same thing as the first one, so I'm just going to have to go on faith with it. However, it sure looks like that stuff is coming loose (delaminating), since the top is translucent and you can pretty much see into/through the top when deflated. Whatever "welding" they do must be only in spots or along thin lines, rather than the whole surface area. Otherwise, there would be no "excess" insulation to "fold back on itself."
So, just beware if you get one of these ExPed models. What looks like insulation that is coming loose is engineered in a fashion so that a side-effect is that it will look defective. Weird. They need a warning label to explain that. IMHO.
Rain Man
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I read at BPL forum, the newer synthetic insulation like Climashield Combat or Apex only have to be attached or sewn at the edges for sleeping quilts. I suppose this is what you are describing.
Big Dawg
04-26-2012, 00:13
Thanks for the detail Rain Man. I think I'm still going w/ that pad. I was at REI the other day, and was really impressed with the feel of the fabric and overall design. Knowing REI's return policy also makes me feel comfortable with the purchase. I hope to have one before my next section hike this fall. Along w/ my newly acquired Osprey Hornet 46, and a few other additions to the "kit", the pad will help reduce my base weight to an all time low. I'm pretty stoked about that!!
Connie... good info,,, sounds like it corresponds to what Exped was saying.
What is the best way to store the Eped UL 7? Storing it the stuff sack now but, owning many Therma-rest pads has me wanting to lay it out flat.
Big Dawg
04-26-2012, 00:22
What is the best way to store the Eped UL 7? Storing it the stuff sack now but, owning many Therma-rest pads has me wanting to lay it out flat.
from Exped's site,,, FAQ:
How do I store my sleeping mat?
We recommend storing the mat unrolled with both valves open in a dry and cool area e.g. under the bed.