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latebloomer
03-14-2005, 10:29
How does one get her fuel bottle to the trail? My sister and I are flying to VT to head SOBO and we understand that she won't be able to fly her fuel bottle and says she can't mail it, either. Has anyone had to deal with this problem? Is it possible to buy just the fuel bottle from a camping store? This is our first long-distance hike and could really use some help.

BlackCloud
03-14-2005, 12:08
When I lived in Hawaii, post 9-11, I had a problem. I had to fly to go hiking/camping on the other islands, but the mindless TSA doesn't allow any container that once housed fuel on board a plane, even in luggage. Now mind you, you CAN take a full lighter, full of lighter fluid, but not an EMPTY can of nothing!

Anyway, the answer is the U.S. Mail. I would mail my empty Peak One Stove to the park I was visiting or to a nearby store. If you don't want to lie to the postman when he asks, ask someone else to do it.

Look people, backpackers have flown w/ empty stoves & fuel containers for decades w/ no percievable threat or incident. Don't let the mindless beuacrats slow you down........:datz

Panzer1
03-14-2005, 12:24
If you are talking about Coleman fuel, I'm sure you could mail an empty bottle with no problem and just find the fuel for it when you get there.

If you put Coleman fuel in the bottle, I think you will have to mark it "Hazardous Material" and pay a small premium to mail it.

If the bottle never had fuel in it before, you could probably bring an empty bottle on the plane and say it is not a fuel bottle because it never had fuel in it. However, I've never tried that before.

Obviously, you cannot bring a full fuel bottle aboard the plane as it is too dangerous to do that.

Panzer

SGT Rock
03-14-2005, 12:29
How does one get her fuel bottle to the trail? My sister and I are flying to VT to head SOBO and we understand that she won't be able to fly her fuel bottle and says she can't mail it, either. Has anyone had to deal with this problem? Is it possible to buy just the fuel bottle from a camping store? This is our first long-distance hike and could really use some help.

1. Switch to an alcohol stove. All you need is some empty soda cans and a pair of scissors.

2. When you get to VT, stop by a Wal-mart and pick up a) 20oz soda b) a can of denatured alcohol.

3. Drink soda

4. Pour alcohol into the bottle, this much should last you 5-10 days depending on how much you eat.

There, no more fuel bottle problems ;)

chknfngrs
03-14-2005, 12:31
Best bet with minimal worry: locate an outfitter/retailer in Vermont and buy supplies when you arrive. Don't mess with mailing anything, and have some fun locating a store when you're there, as you may also be able to pick up some pointers from the local pride.

Most likely they will carry the same items you are in need of. Luckily most fuel is fairly easy to come by in the states.

bulldog49
03-14-2005, 14:20
Buy a new bottle and leave the cap off it when you fly. You will have to dispose of it at the end of your trip. I do this when I fly to Alaska and never have any problems.

Tim Rich
03-14-2005, 14:23
We've never shipped fuel (we use white gas) on our sections, but just found it when we got there. We've taken used bottles on flights to and from the trail over the past ten years or so - we let it air out and then put it in a quart ziploc with the top loose in with it. On our first trip after 9/11 I bought a fuel bottle and packed it, still in its store packaging to show it was new. If you're a bit leery about packing a used bottle, I'd just buy a new one. Always put your fuel bottle in checked luggage.

SGT Rock
03-14-2005, 14:26
Well, there is always the option (depending on stove type) to empty the bottle, and then flush it several times. Then simply transport water in it as a water bottle.

bulldog49
03-14-2005, 14:33
Most airlines will insist the bottle have never been used. Mine have been closely inspected visually and olfactorily. At least that's what I've been told first hand. You can't transport the bottle with the cap on, empty or filled with water because of pressurization.

hiker5
03-14-2005, 14:55
If you are concerned about pressurization (and I'm not sure why you would be) filling a bottle with water would be better than with air. The air will expand and contract with the changing atmospheric pressure, but water is considered incompressible at the pressures in question, so it would remain unaffected.

I know I'm calling water incompressable when it was actually be decompressing, but say undecompressable would just be silly.

bulldog49
03-14-2005, 15:11
If you are concerned about pressurization (and I'm not sure why you would be) filling a bottle with water would be better than with air. The air will expand and contract with the changing atmospheric pressure, but water is considered incompressible at the pressures in question, so it would remain unaffected.

I know I'm calling water incompressable when it was actually be decompressing, but say undecompressable would just be silly.

It's not what I'm concerned with, this is what I've been told by airline personnel when I check my pack. I've been asked each time about fuel containers and told the bottle must be unused and the cap off. In this day and age better to err on the side of caution.

bulldog49
03-14-2005, 15:12
oops. double posted.

smokymtnsteve
03-14-2005, 16:11
Well, there is always the option (depending on stove type) to empty the bottle, and then flush it several times. Then simply transport water in it as a water bottle.


this is what I do...I took the label of my fuel bottle ..wrapped it in duct tape and wrote H2o on it,,filled the bottle with water ..put it in my carry on.

took a big drink out of it at security.

latebloomer
03-14-2005, 16:45
So basically, she needs to use the fuel that's in the bottle (she says it came full where she bought it and she's never used it), then she can do whatever she wants to get it there.

Thanks for all your help. This is one of those things you don't think about when you're new to backpacking and so excited while you're buying your equipment, I guess. :datz I hope this is the most complicated thing we have to deal with.

SGT Rock
03-14-2005, 16:47
This will work as long as it isn't a canister stove.

Peaks
03-14-2005, 17:08
So basically, she needs to use the fuel that's in the bottle (she says it came full where she bought it and she's never used it), then she can do whatever she wants to get it there.

Thanks for all your help. This is one of those things you don't think about when you're new to backpacking and so excited while you're buying your equipment, I guess. :datz I hope this is the most complicated thing we have to deal with.

WEll, I wouldn't say she can do anything she wants with an emptly fuel bottle.

The bottle needs to be emptied out and aired out. If it's washed with hot soapy water that helps get the fumes out.

If you want to be absolutely sure that it gets to your destination, then ship it UPS ground. Allow 2 weeks. Emply fuel bottles can also be shipped US Post Office with special labeling. Again, allow 2 weeks.

You may be able to take an empty and aired out fuel bottle in your checked luggage on the plane. However, it all depends on the air line and the agent at the gate. You need to figure out if the potential risk and hastle factor is worth it.

Panzer1
03-14-2005, 17:30
Well, there is always the option (depending on stove type) to empty the bottle, and then flush it several times. Then simply transport water in it as a water bottle.
The only thing I worry about here is that they ask you to take a drink to prove that it is only water. The water would probably have a foul taste even after the bottle was washed out.

Panzer

Tim Rich
03-14-2005, 17:34
Before shipping it separately or chugging tainted water (if you could still bring a lighter, you could do a flame eater routine for security), remember that a typical white gas bottle only runs about $10, assuming you're headed to a locale with an outfitter.

Panzer1
03-14-2005, 17:34
So basically, she needs to use the fuel that's in the bottle (she says it came full where she bought it and she's never used it), then she can do whatever she wants to get it there.

Thanks for all your help. This is one of those things you don't think about when you're new to backpacking and so excited while you're buying your equipment, I guess. :datz I hope this is the most complicated thing we have to deal with.
Can you tell us what kind of fuel and stove you are talking about?
It makes a difference...

Panzer

The Solemates
03-14-2005, 18:19
I can certainly understand the dilemma with modern security, but we have never had any problems flying with our stove and fuel bottle. Be sure to wash it out with soap and water and leave the lid off....this has always worked for us. And the answer, "No sir, its brand new...never been used." Despite the scratches on the sides telling its age (and use), this has worked for us for trips to AZ and AK.

The Solemates
03-14-2005, 18:21
this is what I do...I took the label of my fuel bottle ..wrapped it in duct tape and wrote H2o on it,,filled the bottle with water ..put it in my carry on.

took a big drink out of it at security.

Excellent work.

Panzer1
03-14-2005, 19:14
Of course now they wipe down your bags with this white pad with some chemical on it that reacts with explosive residue. I wonder if coleman fluid or a coleman stove would give a false positive?

They might arrest you and give you an internal body cavity search...

Panzer

latebloomer
03-14-2005, 19:33
I don't know what kind of fuel it burns. (Go ahead and laugh--I know you want to.) I realize that's going to be important info. It's an MSR stove, but I'm not sure which one. I've only seen it once and didn't pay that much attention. Until faced with this problem, I didn't know there were different kinds of fuel.

Frosty
03-14-2005, 20:07
I can certainly understand the dilemma with modern security, Nothing to do with modern security, actually, though the odds of getting caught must be higher because of increased awareness and inspections. But these rules have been on the books for a long time. In the late 80's/early 90's, I traveled to California a lot on business and always spent an extra weekend hiking. I switched to a Sierra Zip stove (wood burning) at that time because airline rules prohibited carrying stoves, even if empty (this was back in the days of Peak One white gas stoves).

Basically, no one ever asked, but there was a horrific $25K fine if caught. (Ignorance of the rule was not a viable excuse). I probably could have just packed my stove anyway, but after weighing the risk/reward, it just didn't seem worth it.

I'm sure many people get away with shipping stoves and fuel bottles. That just wouldn't have been consolation enough had I been the one caught.

cutman11
03-14-2005, 21:11
just empty the fuel bottle, clean it, dry it, stuff a pair of women's panties in it, tape a pair on the outside, and if they ask about the jar, say "havent you seen the new womens panties in a jar? Here, have a sniff, they smell great:banana !":-?

orangebug
03-14-2005, 21:22
Something about these stories reminds me of a draft dodger myth from the Viet Nam era. The mythical person going for the enlistment physical would pack his posterior with peanut butter, wander around looking disorganized, and casually reach back and eat a finger wipe of peanut butter.

I always wondered if it was creamy or crunchy.

Personally, I'd buy a new fuel bottle near the trailhead.

Panzer1
03-14-2005, 22:50
I checked the TSA web site and this is what they have to say on the issue:

"FUELS (including cooking fuel and any liquid flammable fuel)" are prohibited.

They do not say anything about any empty fuel bottles...

However, they also state that they can prohibit any item even if it is not on the printed list of prohibited items.

Panzer

ARambler
03-14-2005, 23:25
Last year, I was slightly worried about this problem. I bought brand new bottle and left it in its shrink wrap. I checked it on with my pack. When I opened my pack there was a note that said it had been inspected by TSA. One or two items were in the wrong stuff sack so I think they inspected very carefully. They left the fuel bottle, but I don't remember it specifically saying "fuel Bottle", and I did not pack it next to the stove.

At security I was obviously singled out and checked very carefully. Due to a gate change, I had to go through security a second time, and was again checked very carefully. The second time I told the guards that I was hiking the AT and they were a little more friendly.

I think if you travel on a one-way ticket, you should expect to be more closely scrutinized, and should take extra precautions mentioned above.

BlackCloud
03-15-2005, 11:27
(this was back in the days of Peak One white gas stoves).


It still is thank you very much...........:rolleyes:

latebloomer
03-15-2005, 13:08
Thanks very much. I hadn't thought about the one-way ticket being a possible red flag for the airline. You guys are so smart! And funny. :jump

LIhikers
03-18-2005, 08:47
And if fuel bottles and stoves aren't enough, lighters and some matches will now be banned to. I work in the aviation industry and just got the following info.

Q. Why is TSA banning lighters?
§ It’s federal law. The president signed an intelligence reform bill into law on December 17, 2004. The bill included a mandate to add "butane lighters" to the Prohibited Items List. However, TSA screeners may not be able to distinguish between butane lighters and other types of lighters; accordingly, TSA added ALL lighters to the Prohibited Items List to avoid confusion. TSA believes that this change is fully consistent with Congressional intent.
Q. When does the new policy go into effect? § The policy will be fully enforced
April 14, 2005.
Q. Is this a response to a danger highlighted by Richard Reid, the so-called "shoe bomber?" If so, why now? § Primarily, this is a measure to realize Congress’ stated intent that butane lighters should be added to TSA’s Prohibited Items list. § Due to Al Qaeda’s continued efforts to create Improvised Explosive Devices (IEDs), prohibiting lighters onboard aircraft and in the secure areas of airports will reduce current security vulnerabilities and add another layer of defense.
Q. Are there any exceptions to the ban on lighters in the sterile areas of the airport? § No. The ban includes all forms of lighters. This includes butane, Zippo, electric/battery-powered or novelty lighters.
Q. Is TSA banning matches, too? § No, not at this time. TSA separately is considering whether other ignition sources should be added to the Prohibited Items List. Consistent with DOT's regulation governing the transport of hazardous materials, TSA currently limits the type and quantity of matches passengers may bring on board an aircraft. Specifically, passengers now may carry up to four books of strike-on-cover matches on their person or in accessible property. Under the DOT regulation, all matches are prohibited from carriage in checked baggage. If TSA determines that prohibiting the carriage of matches on one's person or in accessible property is warranted, the agency will publish a notice in the Federal Register making a further modification to its interpretive rule.
Q. Can travelers stow lighters in checked baggage? § No. The Department of Transportation regulates the transport of hazardous materials on aircraft. Under current regulations, no lighters or matches may be carried as checked baggage. The Department of Transportation makes those safety determinations
Q. How will this policy affect international travelers? § The ICAO Prohibited Items List, which most countries follow, does not ban lighters or matches from the cabin of aircraft. While the United States can and has exceeded the ICAO standards and recommended practices based on Congress’ mandate and our assessment of potential security threats, we cannot impose our standards on foreign governments. However, TSA does require U.S. and foreign air carriers flying into the United States from international locations to comply with U.S. standards. TSA will request foreign government assistance in screening for prohibited items in support of air carrier compliance with U.S. requirements.
§ TSA will work closely with carriers (both U.S. and foreign carriers with flights to/from the U.S.), their customer service offices and foreign governments to develop and implement a passenger notification/alert.

smokymtnsteve
03-18-2005, 09:40
I feel "safer" already..NOT!!!

Kerosene Charlie
03-19-2005, 13:26
Flew, last July, AirTran, one way, Boston to Ohio, with Coleman Peak I (empty, cap off) and Sigg fuel bottle (empty, cap off), in outside zip pockets in external frame pack. Checked pack - no questions. Looking very scruffy, they checked me pretty carefully, but everything made it fine. Had called airline a month earlier and no one seemed to think stove and bottle would be a problem.

The Weasel
03-21-2005, 19:52
I have used the US Postal Service many times to send my Coleman Apex stove and bottle and also fuel cannisters.

go to your post office, ask them how, and they will tell you. show them the bottle and the cannisters, and they will help. If they try to tell you that you cannot, ask for a supervisor. I have mailed from many post offices, and usually have had no difficulty.

The Weasel

SGT Rock
03-21-2005, 19:55
Not to be a smartass or anything, I really want to know: was this before 911 or have you done it since then Weasel?