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View Full Version : Help me find a non sil solo UL tents?



tuswm
01-12-2012, 14:56
I have a nice UL 2 person tent but I dont like the sil nylon. I would like to find a tent in the 1+ pound range.

looks like "the one" is out of stock until further notice. what are my other options. 600 bucks for a light heart cuben is just out of my price range. I have even considered making a cuben fiber tent myself and even that is super expensive.

Snowleopard
01-12-2012, 15:13
What don't you like about silnylon?
If you don't like the slippery floor but like the rest of the tent, you could cut out the floor of your current tent leaving a small amount and sewing a PU (polyurethane) coated nylon floor.

royalusa
01-12-2012, 15:17
Have you seen: http://hikelighter.com/2011/12/29/sulxul-enclosed-shelter-comparisons

a (http://hikelighter.com/2011/12/29/sulxul-enclosed-shelter-comparisons/)nd its discussion here: http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=57466&skip_to_post=488137

TyTy
01-12-2012, 17:39
I have thought the same thing and it appears there is not a lot of options. It seems like you have the non sil-nylon tents (that weight a lot, typically made by big name manufacturers), sil stuff which is kind of the mid weight option, and then cuben which is super expensive. Not a lot in between.

Does anyone know why Goassamer Gear stopped producing The One? I really don't see any spinnaker stuff anymore, maybe it is gone or hard to get I don't know.

I share your frustration with the lack of options. It seems like the choices boil down to sil (slippery, misting, absorbs water) or cuben.

leaftye
01-12-2012, 18:30
Appytrails
Zpacks

Franco
01-12-2012, 19:14
The Appytrail III is light because it is a shaped tarp. No floor no bug protection.
The ZPack Duo is $400 , plus accessories.

Spinnaker. It had to do with quality control.
Franco

RayBan
01-12-2012, 19:26
The Appytrail III is light because it is a shaped tarp. No floor no bug protection.
The ZPack Duo is $400 , plus accessories.



You might want to take a look at the Hexamid Solo/Solo Plus...not $400, but $285 for the Solo Plus (less for the Solo)

http://zpacks.com/

Franco
01-12-2012, 20:22
missed the solo bit. I had in mind his UL 2 person bit...

skinewmexico
01-12-2012, 20:27
Tarptent Sublite. Love mine.

Shadowalker
01-12-2012, 20:53
Can anyone tell me where I can purchase Cuben Fiber material too have a Pack cover sewed , I know they sell it by the Sq. Yrd. but cant find the site , Any help would be apprieciated , THANKS !!

RWheeler
01-12-2012, 21:12
Can anyone tell me where I can purchase Cuben Fiber material too have a Pack cover sewed , I know they sell it by the Sq. Yrd. but cant find the site , Any help would be apprieciated , THANKS !!

http://thru-hiker.com/materials/index.php

P (http://thru-hiker.com/materials/index.php)robably the best site for purchasing materials. but I don't think they sell Cuben.

You can also try: http://www.diygearsupply.com/

S (http://www.diygearsupply.com/)end either place an email, see if you can purchase Cuben?

RayBan
01-12-2012, 21:35
Can anyone tell me where I can purchase Cuben Fiber material too have a Pack cover sewed , I know they sell it by the Sq. Yrd. but cant find the site , Any help would be apprieciated , THANKS !!


http://www.questoutfitters.com/coated.html#CUBEN

tuswm
01-12-2012, 23:16
What don't you like about silnylon?


i dont like the way it handles watet. the way water soakes through the floor and how it soakes up water like a sponge when its raining. i do have a small samle of cuben figer. ots amazingly water proof. even if ot was the same weight as sil i would still consider it tp be a far superior tent material.

FamilyGuy
01-12-2012, 23:34
Tarptent uses a combination PU and silnylon floor if I recall with a hydrostatic head of 2500mm. It won't leak.What you want to confirm with any floor is the hydrostatic head with a minimum of about 1200mm to 1500mm for the floor. It could be made out of cotton as long as it meets that standard you should be fine. Not all silnylon is the same.

Tinker
01-12-2012, 23:49
http://www.bearpawwd.com/tents_tarps/lair.html

Order it with a floor and perimeter netting. $195. + $60.

Franco
01-13-2012, 01:52
As the Family Guy stated , not all silnylon is the same
So I did a quick test on a piece of 5'x3' silnylon of the type used by TT
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Dry it is about 65g (my scale measures in 5 g increments)
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I soaked that in a measuring flask for about 1.5 hours .
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I then picked that up gave it 4 shakes and weighed that again, it went up to 80g (23%, consistent with previous experiments leaving a tent under rain all night)
You can see water droplets on not in the fabric
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straight after I put it on my clothes line (in the shade , about 20c (68f) for ten minutes.
it felt dry then and was back to about 65g.

Now, do a similar test with another fabric/laminate (yes including Cuben) and see if you can do better
Franco

TyTy
01-13-2012, 10:32
Now, do a similar test with another fabric/laminate (yes including Cuben) and see if you can do better
Franco

I would be VERY curious to see that same test performed with cuben.

tuswm
01-13-2012, 11:56
I would too but I only have a very small sample of cuben not even enough to make a stuff sack for a sock, and my scale doesnt go grams.

I have a Tarp Tent Double rainbow. I think its the best free standing tent on the market. But with you pitch it on moist or wet ground it soaks through. So I got the tyvek ground cloth.. Still soaked through. So I got a polycro (sliding glass door Plastic wrap for $4) And that stopped the problem. I know that most people here have never have never handled cuben but it feels like polycro. IF I had to describe it I would say its polycr reinforced with fiber to make it crazy strong. It doesnt absorb water at all. I am not saying that cuben is a better fabric. I have notice it will stretch in some directions and but not in the directions of the fabric. but it is not elastic. it stays stretched out. It is also not a pleasant material to touch. also being as it feels like a stiff sheet of plastic, does it breath at all? however It apears to be impermeable, or a completely water proof fabric. not water in or out. If this is true I dont understand why people would be making clothes out of it. Also the cost is just crazy. absolutely crazy.

RayBan
01-13-2012, 12:06
I would be VERY curious to see that same test performed with cuben.

Just did a test on one of Joe's zpack's dry sacks a la what you did Franco but immersed mine (NOT recommended by Joe before seam-sealing) and only "shook it off" before weighing, not waited after hanging it up to "dry".

Result: starting mass was 11 grams; mass after "immersion" period (30 min. in very warm water - certainly above the 68F used for the silnylon test) was 13 grams, i.e., 2 grams net.

Ron Bell at Mountain Laurel designs says the cuben is 100% waterproof (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/fabric.php (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/fabric.php) ) so I assume that the 2 gram differential in my test was from water soaking into the seams since the outside of the dry bag itself was "bone dry".

TyTy
01-13-2012, 12:31
Just did a test on one of Joe's zpack's dry sacks a la what you did Franco but immersed mine (NOT recommended by Joe before seam-sealing) and only "shook it off" before weighing, not waited after hanging it up to "dry".

Result: starting mass was 11 grams; mass after "immersion" period (30 min. in very warm water - certainly above the 68F used for the silnylon test) was 13 grams, i.e., 2 grams net.

Ron Bell at Mountain Laurel designs says the cuben is 100% waterproof (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/fabric.php (http://www.mountainlaureldesigns.com/fabric.php) ) so I assume that the 2 gram differential in my test was from water soaking into the seams since the outside of the dry bag itself was "bone dry".



I have read that cuben is 100% waterproof, I don't see how it couldn't be its basically mesh sandwiched by two sheets of plastic.

I really do not like the idea of my 34 oz sil tent gaining 25% water weight. That sucks.

RayBan
01-13-2012, 13:04
I have read that cuben is 100% waterproof, I don't see how it couldn't be its basically mesh sandwiched by two sheets of plastic.

I really do not like the idea of my 34 oz sil tent gaining 25% water weight. That sucks.

Agreed. That's one of several reasons I changed to a cuben tent AND cuben stuff/dry sacks (which are roughly half the mass of comparable silnylon sacks, depending on the grades used).

FamilyGuy
01-13-2012, 14:44
Silnylon doesn't soak up water. What happens is water droplets stick to it and you pack it away wet. If you are able shake off all of the water there is no weight gain. Water does not stick to cuben the same way.

Franco
01-13-2012, 16:22
The point you guys are missing is that even after shaking down your Cuben shelter , it will not be bone dry, therefore it will be heavier than before.
Do the test with a full shelter and you will find that a 20% or so increase is likely to happen...
BTW, taffeta nylon and polyester do retain more water than silnylon.
Franco

RayBan
01-13-2012, 17:00
The point you guys are missing is that even after shaking down your Cuben shelter , it will not be bone dry, therefore it will be heavier than before.
Do the test with a full shelter and you will find that a 20% or so increase is likely to happen...

Franco

I defer to my more learned colleague on that point. :sun

The other advantages of cuben - lighter, stronger, virtually no stretch whatsoever in comparison to silnylon after getting wet/in very heavy winds/snow - are, at least for me, the most compelling of the many reasons to use it where it's "reasonably" cost/effective regardless of whether, as you were indicating Franco, both will "gain weight" from moisture, be it condensation or otherwise.

TyTy
01-13-2012, 17:21
I defer to my more learned colleague on that point. :sun

The other advantages of cuben - lighter, stronger, virtually no stretch whatsoever in comparison to silnylon after getting wet/in very heavy winds/snow - are, at least for me, the most compelling of the many reasons to use it where it's "reasonably" cost/effective regardless of whether, as you were indicating Franco, both will "gain weight" from moisture, be it condensation or otherwise.

Also cuben is not slippery like sil-nylon on floors for pad correct?

Franco
01-13-2012, 17:31
As I stated many times, chose your poison.
Cuben is lighter (there are many types,the one used by the tent manufacturers is) but also lets more light in.
That for some can create two problems .
One is almost see through, so particularly ladies may not be all that enthused about this.
Two : if you set it up in the sun for a nap away from bugs , you will have a sauna. (think glasshouse)
does not stretch
That can also be a problem in two ways. Under a lot of pressure it will creep (deform) and remain that way.
That his the reason why Cuben sails are usually used a few times only (BTW, they cost around 250K)
This has been reduced in the last few years but not with all of the Cuben stuff.
The second way is similar to the difference between dome (think Cuben) and tunnel (think silnylon) tents structure.
A tunnel will bend and spring back to the original shape , domes will hold but over a certain pressure (less than tunnels) will snap.
That is why many explorers in high wind areas (like the poles) prefer tunnels over the more rigid domes.
(Antarctica is the driest continent on earth, so snow is not the problem , wind is...)
Do also keep in mind that Cuben has (in general) less abrasion resistance than silnylon, so not that good for floors.
Again I am convinced that once some are over having spent what they did on their Cuben shelters, they will start to see that no fabric/laminate comes without some downside.
The ones that spent $600 on the Rocket tent already have. Mind you to me the idea of a mountaineering tent that is black inside once closed in , is just plain daft , but that is another story...
Franco
BTW, I just wet a piece of 3'x5' plastic sheet (similar to a thick trash bag)it gained 13% weight after shakes

hshires
01-13-2012, 17:32
I would too but I only have a very small sample of cuben not even enough to make a stuff sack for a sock, and my scale doesnt go grams.

I have a Tarp Tent Double rainbow. I think its the best free standing tent on the market. But with you pitch it on moist or wet ground it soaks through. .

Tuswm,

I looked at a photo of the DR you have in your gallery. It's obviously several years old--the prior model for sure--and not sure how much use you got out of it before the floor started leaking but the bottom line is that it should not and you are welcome to send it in and have us correct it. We can't fix it if we don't know about it.

Thanks.

-H

Tinker
01-13-2012, 17:38
Wow! Talk about "above and beyond the call of duty"................

Henry actually checks the internet for negative press and invites the customer to have the item repaired.

Very cool! :)

tuswm
01-13-2012, 23:30
Wow! Talk about "above and beyond the call of duty"................

Henry actually checks the internet for negative press and invites the customer to have the item repaired.

Very cool! :)

very cool. i love my tt dr. i thought water soaking through the floor was just a trait of sil nylon. but got to love the customer service. henry if u read this i would be the first on your list for a sublight cuben or spinnaker. could u make a sublight cuben for $300?

ronmoak
01-14-2012, 13:17
As I stated many times, chose your poison.
Cuben is lighter (there are many types,the one used by the tent manufacturers is) but also lets more light in.
That for some can create two problems .


Just for the record Franco, do you even own a cuben fiber tent? Have you ever slept in one? Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe you have.

Unless you've spent a lot of time using and working with Cuben, maybe you should limit your comments to areas where you actually have a working knowledge. There's enough confusion out there already, we don't need to be adding more.

Ron

Nitrojoe
01-14-2012, 13:39
Light Heart Gear sells cubin fiber scraps for making small sachs and wallets, they may even have a piece large enough for a back cover. Go on line and contact Judy, the owner, and let her know what you need.

Franco
01-15-2012, 07:14
Ron
you are correct.
I don't own a Cuben shelter, nor would I want to own one regardless of the cost even if it was in a design that I like.
I have already explained why...
However, I do know what Cuben looks like, I have seen and played with several types (inc stuff sacks and a couple of packs)
This is one (my backyard)

14896

and the green one is another
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(my Contrail )
Franco

Franco
01-15-2012, 07:21
here is another..
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ronmoak
01-15-2012, 15:00
Ron
you are correct.
I don't own a Cuben shelter, nor would I want to own one regardless of the cost even if it was in a design that I like.
I have already explained why...
Franco

Sorry but having an opinion and setting up a shelter in your back yard does not make you an expert. I've worked with Cuben for 5 years making everything from packs to clothes to shelters and still don't consider myself an expert.

You are right that Cuben has issues, though not necessarily the ones you chose to highlight. I've been in many a silnylon sauna when it's setup in the sun. I've not seen Cuben exhibit any more or less issues in that regard than Silnylon. Is cuben slightly translucent? Yes, but then again it offers vastly more privacy than one is likely to find in a shelter along the AT. And in case you don't know it, there are a lot of women using shelters along the AT. And this is an AT Forum.

Frankly your attempt to associate properties Cuben fiber used in sails on 12 meter yacht vs. shelters is ridiculous. A properly designed sail is used to collect and concentrate wind. A properly designed shelter will deflect wind. While both will under go dynamic loading, those forces encountered in sails is far greater. I've seen wind loads shear 1/2" bolts on rotating steel cranes with not nearly the surface area of yacht sail.

The fact is that all fabrics used to construct shelters have various strengths and weakness. From my perspective the greatest weakness of Cuben is high cost and difficultly of construction. If I'm a user and cost isn't an issue and the shelter was well constructed, I'd go with Cuben over silnylon any day of the week.

Ron

tuswm
01-15-2012, 20:08
I was thinking I like the idea of making my own tent. Some key points are..........
*some of the space of a vestibule for usable space, like the picture below
*all flat side for ease of construction with CF or spinnaker fabric.
* possible disposable polycro floor for water proofness, cost, weight, and fix with duck tape.
*primarily solo tent
*could be used for two like the zpack hexamid
*3 sitting indian style for cards
*only using 6 steaks to keep weight down
*vestibule large enough for pack and boots
*uses only hiking poles to keep weight down


1490114902

tuswm
01-15-2012, 20:25
14904

So I came up with this. measurements are in inches and each square is 5" BY 5 "

tuswm
01-15-2012, 20:40
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erzBpe5UH7w&feature=youtu.be


(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=erzBpe5UH7w&feature=youtu.be)