View Full Version : Thru hike or buy a house ?
My husband and I need some advice. We are recently married , neither have thru hiked ( he has much more experience then I ) and we dream everyday of accomplishing such an endeavor.:rolleyes: The cost looks to be about 10 grand for us. That's enough for a down payment on a simple home for us. But what do we do??? It's been a year since we first started talking about taking this adventure. Has anyone on here have advice or had to make similar choices as us ?
BlackCloud
01-12-2012, 17:25
Real estate is so depressed right now that buying it is a must for those who can. While the cost of the house will only rise from where we are today [long term], the cost of a thru hike will remain fairly constant.
To reword your question in logical terms, you are asking if you should make one of the largest and most important investments in life or go on a prolonged vacation. Remember, buy a home & you will (I assume) continue to work and earn $$. A thru hike's cost must therefore consider lost opportunity income.
Not the popular answer on this site, I'm sure.
Sassafras Lass
01-12-2012, 17:40
Well, what are your long-term goals?
To live in a suburbs and compete in the rat race? Always working for your 'stuff', a 'better' house, a 'better' car, a 'better' TV?
Or go live on the eastern seaboard and have the trip of a lifetime for half a year, which will change you in good ways?
There are many ways to live, and traditionally is only one of them. A house is a huge commitment and when you begin to fill it with belongings and kids, it will seem crazier and crazier to walk away from it.
Bust out the magic quarter. Heads or tails!
HiKen2011
01-12-2012, 17:48
Well, what are your long-term goals?
To live in a suburbs and compete in the rat race? Always working for your 'stuff', a 'better' house, a 'better' car, a 'better' TV?
Or go live on the eastern seaboard and have the trip of a lifetime for half a year, which will change you in good ways?
There are many ways to live, and traditionally is only one of them. A house is a huge commitment and when you begin to fill it with belongings and kids, it will seem crazier and crazier to walk away from it.
I concur, and will add this. The more you have, the more it cost to have it. The american dream? More like a nightmare. I own a couple of properties and honestly it's better to rent in the long run.
I agree with BlackCloud that since the market is so low, if you can afford to buy, now is a great time to buy. Costs are low, and more importantly interest rates are low. My wife and I bought last year for that very reason.
I'd advocate buying a house if that's something you want to do. Hiking will always be there, this buyers market will not.
leave trainspotting to someone else and buy the house. The AT will be there when you are ready, you probably wont see a better time to buy a house in your lifetime.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 17:52
you're 24. go hike. the market isnt going anywhere soon.i can recommend a 2 person house that weighs under 2 1/2 lbs.
rocketsocks
01-12-2012, 17:56
Buy a house on the trail,maybe even open a hostel.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 17:59
think about if you buy a house, you probably wont be thruhiking for 15+yrs.if thats ok, then buy the house.
Don't buy a house based on predictions of its value increasing or decreasing in the near future. Buy a house when you want a house and it's something you can honestly afford. Since you're considering a hike, you might want to take a look into renting it out while you're hiking.
Go hike....
Property market is still going down and once you've bought that yoke around your neck(the mortgage), you ain't going nowhere for any length of time!
Live a little and larf a lot!
Hope to see you both on the trail
There are still ways to buy a house no money down so you can probably do both if the stars align for you. You'll just have to get you job history back in line. If your a vet the VA loan is still no money down. USDA is no money down but can't be over 210k or under 80k and be considered a rural area something like that. I know its hoops to jump threw but its no money down. So spend your 10k and threw hike and maybe still get your house, do some research see what you can come up with you just might get your cake and eat it too.
max patch
01-12-2012, 18:39
Hmmm.....a kick azz vacation or taking the first step to financial security......seems like the answer is obvious to me.
beakerman
01-12-2012, 18:40
think about if you buy a house, you probably wont be thruhiking for 15+yrs.if thats ok, then buy the house.
this is my take exactly...you need to decide your priority on this. aslo weigh your ability to save up a similar amount of cash after a hike. If you look at it this way you may find you hike today with minimal financial commitments (house note), then save up again to buy the house. If the time to save the down payment is acceptable then that would be a go for hiking it that time is not aceptable to you then you buy now and figure out how to save cash to live on while youhike...including making house payments along the way.
I will tell you it is easier to save money while you are young and have fewer commitments.
Spirit Walker
01-12-2012, 18:41
It really depends on how badly you want to do a thruhike. Buying a house is the sensible solution. However, at the moment you have the money and the freedom to live your dream. If you buy the house, you won't be able to leave it easily. Mortgage payments, insurance and taxes require a job. Hard to do a long hike and keep up the payments. Renting out a house can be difficult, and what do you do if you leave the trail early? Even section hiking becomes iffy if your house has a lawn that needs regular maintenance. Chances are you'll end up having children sooner or later - which puts off the hike a few more years. If doing a thruhike is really important to you, I wouldn't wait. You don't know what curves life will throw at you.
flemdawg1
01-12-2012, 18:47
Go do the Thru-hike, you can get an anchor, I mean House payment later.
strollingalong
01-12-2012, 18:49
this is my take exactly...you need to decide your priority on this. aslo weigh your ability to save up a similar amount of cash after a hike. If you look at it this way you may find you hike today with minimal financial commitments (house note), then save up again to buy the house. If the time to save the down payment is acceptable then that would be a go for hiking it that time is not aceptable to you then you buy now and figure out how to save cash to live on while youhike...including making house payments along the way.
I will tell you it is easier to save money while you are young and have fewer commitments.
yeah
do it do it do it do it!
You are only 24.
The same age I was when I did my AT thru-hike.
Walking the AT lead me to moving to Colorado, taking up backcountry skiing, exploring the slot canyons and other long hikes.
Personally, I am glad that I spent most of my 20s and early 30s wandering to and fro. I worked in IT to pay the bills, save up money and went hiking.
Now at 37, I am putting down more roots. Getting married this year, bought a used vehicle (in cash. :) )that is probably a bit better for us than my 2wd pickup, etc. Still a modest lifestyle by most standards, but a big step for me. A town home is probably part of the equation. (And if not going out for 6 mos at a time, 6 wks at a time is looking to be in my fairly near future).
The difference between then and now?
At 24 years old, I was NOT ready to settle down a bit in Rhode Island.
At 37 I've hiked the AT/PCT/CDT, done smaller hikes (Long Trail, BMT, Colorao Trail, etc) , and had lots of extended time off skiing, climbing, exploring Utah, etc. And, quite frankly, I love my home in Colorado more so than I ever loved RI.
At 37 I am ready to put some modest roots down. At 24 I was not.
YMMV. Truly. I was not ready until now. You may be. Only you can decide.
Hmm ...never thought of the no down payment method !! Catches my interest. Just being 24 the hike really does get the best of my logic . Thank you everyone for your advice and comments. Gives me a lot to think and talk about.
earlyriser26
01-12-2012, 18:58
It is a great time to buy a house, but the real question is do one or both of you have jobs? If you decent jobs, quiting them to go on vacation seems to be the biggest issue. If you both are unemployed and just got out of school, I would go for it. Also, most thru hikers don't make it. Give it a try and if after hiking for a month you quit you will have 8K still left for a down payment.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 19:05
living the american dream does not necessarily mean owning a home. living your dreams is the real american dream. and theyre not the same thing.
bamboo bob
01-12-2012, 19:07
Hike Hike Hike
RWheeler
01-12-2012, 19:12
living the american dream does not necessarily mean owning a home. living your dreams is the real american dream. and theyre not the same thing.
This is a wonderful point.
Use the youth while you have it. Take that as you will.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 19:16
2 years ago my daughter took a trip to europe at age 22. she paid for it herself, almost ran out of money before she was able to get to paris and amsterdam, but she toughed it out, came home with a bunch of credit card bills on top of the student loans i'll be paying off for some time to come. she got married last year, having my first granddaughter in a few months, and all the bills are paid off(except for the student loans). the point is, life has a habit of working out when you get to do the things you really really want to do, especially before you've already taken on all kinds of payments and "responsibilities."
Slo-go'en
01-12-2012, 19:22
Asking finacial advice on a hiking forum? Not likely to get un-biased opinons!
Not knowing your long term ability to pay off a morgage, your current and long term employment situation, it's impossable to give meaningfull advice. However, now might be the time to attempt a thru-hike before your commited to settling down for the long term. Once you have a house and kids, your life is over for the next 20 or so years.
eatapeach
01-12-2012, 19:25
You could probably do it for less than $10000. The real estate market won't be going anywhere but down--there is a HUGE supply overhang that will take years to liquidate. Go hike and be moderately thrifty, come back to cheaper houses and maybe another "stimulus".
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 19:28
id like to add that at your age, should you and your husband complete a thru hike together, you'll most likely stay together for life.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 19:29
and dont ask that lady on cnbc
Slo-go'en
01-12-2012, 19:31
Hmm ...never thought of the no down payment method !! Catches my interest. Just being 24 the hike really does get the best of my logic . Thank you everyone for your advice and comments. Gives me a lot to think and talk about.
No NO NO to no down payment. It's the bankers who will catch your interest - a lot of it. Between interest, up keep, taxes and utilities, you will never get back out what you put into the place.
Partnerships are tough on the trail - don't plan to hike in lock-step - travel together, but with your own stuff - that makes you flexible -- now, you will be able to share fuel, and some co-op some other expenses -- I suggest that you can do the hike carefully for more like $8K -- try to come home with $2K - the housing market hasn't hit bottom yet -- it may not go down more but it is going to bump along for a few years -- hike, save some more and then buy a house -- but do hike.
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 20:03
Married at 24: I am going to make a few assumptions------no kids, no major debt, no killer job opportunities.
IMO, this is a great window of opportunity for you......either way. It depends on what YOU want. This is a great time for a young couple to buy a house. It is historic and may not repeat itself in your lifetime. I am very much a responsibility-first type of person. I am not one to say "just hike" no matter what one's situation is (you will get a LOT of that on here).
That said, what a GREAT time of a young couple to have an experience of a lifetime. Mags is a great example of what such a hike meant to him at 24. If you were my kid (I have a 27 and a 25), I would encourage such a hike.......assuming my assumptions earlier in this post are accurate.
kolokolo
01-12-2012, 20:07
I haven't through-hiked, but I wish I had the time to. I can't pretend to know the right answer for you. If I were in your situation, I guess I would look at the 'worst-case' scenario.
On the one hand, if you go through-hiking and don't buy the house, will you be disappointed if you end up saving a few years for a down-payment and paying significantly more for the house? (Remember, this is worse-case, and real-estate prices may not go up in that time.) Or will the shared experience of a through-hike be worth the risk, and possibly the extra money? It's a tough call, because you really don't know what is going to happen.
On the other hand, if you buy the house, will you be disappointed if real estate prices don't go up in the next few years? What if they go down? Will you regret not 'grabbing the brass ring' and going on the through-hike? Alternatively, if real estate prices go up 10% or more and it turns out that you got a great deal on the house, will that be worth not going on the hike? You'll be equity-rich, but it's up to you to decide if that would be worth missing the experience of a through-hike.
There are a lot of people on this forum who would strongly suggest that you should hike while you can. I don't know what's more important to you.
Do you think you are more like Donald Trump or Earl Shaffer?
Married at 24: I am going to make a few assumptions------no kids, no major debt, no killer job opportunities.
IMO, this is a great window of opportunity for you......either way. It depends on what YOU want. This is a great time for a young couple to buy a house. It is historic and may not repeat itself in your lifetime. I am very much a responsibility-first type of person. I am not one to say "just hike" no matter what one's situation is (you will get a LOT of that on here).
That said, what a GREAT time of a young couple to have an experience of a lifetime. Mags is a great example of what such a hike meant to him at 24. If you were my kid (I have a 27 and a 25), I would encourage such a hike.......assuming my assumptions earlier in this post are accurate.
yep - I agree! P/M me - I'll start you guys out with a trail head shuttle (assuming you're going NOBO)!
slowandlow
01-12-2012, 20:18
go hiking while you are still young
Toolshed
01-12-2012, 20:21
Speaking as a finance person, but someone who did not settle down until 38, but has been saving hard for past 20 years, I have to ask:
How do you feel about risk? Many women (not all) tend to be risk averse want to have a secure home and prefer to have it paid off more quickly, whereas men tend to be less risk averse and willing to take chances.
What is compelling is that most of the arguments here are for one side or another - each carries risk. My suggestion is in the middle. If you know where you want to settle down and what you want to do for the next 10-30 years, you could just continue (or begin to) rent an apartment and purchase some basic hiking gear and start sectioning or hiking on other trails to see if it is something you really want to do, before you invest in 600 meals and a slew of mailing boxes... If you really like it, you can break a lease a lot cheaper than trying to sublet or sell your house. If you decide that simply hiking 5-10 days a time is enough for you, then you can make a decision to buy a house, if not, then go on the trail. Yes, home prices are depressed and mortgage rates are low - It is a great time to be a buyer in the market without a house to dispose of - But if you buy and spend the next 2 decades feeling trapped by your investment, then that's not a good thing no matter how good of a bargain you got. Meanwhile you don't want to be plodding along the trail everyday wistfully wishing you were decorating a living room instead or planting your flower garden.
go hiking while you are still young
go hike before global warming ruins this place - I ran today shirtless - mid January - it's just too weird - I hope this summer is not one where the water sources on the AT are gallon jugs left at the road full of water from the ColoradoOgallala Aquifer since there is NO SNOW there to re-charge it!! -- Sorry for the rant.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 20:31
speaking as a former finance guy, the primary reason real estate has done so well over the past fifty years involves a rdiculous amount of money pumped into mortgages.ill keep the politics out of this post, but the Federal Reserve is responsible for boom and bust economic cycles. when we went off the gold standard in the sixties, debt became a part of the american "way of life". a home is not necessarily a good investment(as so many have found out over the past ten years).you should buy a house not as an investment, but because its not just a nice place to visit, but a great place to live.in any case, opportunities are everywhere all the time if you're willing to put in the time to look for them. it can wait till after you hike, and you may decide after a month on the trail, its time to go house hunting.
We have no kids , not much debt and jobs, not careers that we would be neglecting. $10,000 isn't just for the trip but living expenses when we get back without jobs. We also have a strong belief that marriage is suppose to last a lifetime. We are completely okay with taking such a mentally and physical trip together and have alone time when needed. I think it's awesome that there are parents on here that would totally support their children !! Both our families are supportive.
WE love the quote ~ May your love be modern enough to survive the times but old fashion enough to last forever.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 20:34
seems to me you've already made your decision.
We have no kids , not much debt and jobs, not careers that we would be neglecting. $10,000 isn't just for the trip but living expenses when we get back without jobs. We also have a strong belief that marriage is suppose to last a lifetime. We are completely okay with taking such a mentally and physical trip together and have alone time when needed. I think it's awesome that there are parents on here that would totally support their children !! Both our families are supportive.
WE love the quote ~ May your love be modern enough to survive the times but old fashion enough to last forever.
You'll get jobs, you have a supportive family, you sound like good people --- if you want to do it there are about a million ways to talk yourself out of it that you'll have to avoid. A thru-hiker is indeed a special sort of person.
Did not read thru all the responses. I own a house. I have thruhiked. which of these two things do I treasure more? It's easy...look around...how many people own (are in the process of owning) a house? A house is like a car or a bicycle or a tuba or a Big Mac or a pair of shoes...just one more thing you can buy.Life's greatest pleasures are in the rarest of things and the things you truly want to do. Like someone said, when you are on the trail you have a house..it's paid for and goes with you whereever you want to go. The house I own stays put all the time. Go hike the trail.
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 20:50
We have no kids , not much debt and jobs, not careers that we would be neglecting. $10,000 isn't just for the trip but living expenses when we get back without jobs. We also have a strong belief that marriage is suppose to last a lifetime. We are completely okay with taking such a mentally and physical trip together and have alone time when needed. I think it's awesome that there are parents on here that would totally support their children !! Both our families are supportive.
WE love the quote ~ May your love be modern enough to survive the times but old fashion enough to last forever.
You guys have my envy. Enjoy......
Hike.
As other have said, the housing deals will still be there in a year or two. No one expects a quick recovery. Once you buy the house, you will be committed and tied down. Before making that long-term commitment is the time to travel and fulfill your dreams.
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 21:01
Kinda funny that I said "hike" when I just co-signed on my 25-yr-olds first house.
Different folks, different goals.
K_Squared
01-12-2012, 21:28
I think I responded to your other post regarding the effects on your relationship while thru hiking.
When my husband and I thru hiked in 2010, it sounds like we were in much of a similar situation to you. We were 25 years old and had been married for about a year. Most people in society think that the next logical step for us would have been to buy a house, buy a dog and start a family.
We had a different idea. We didn't know when (or if we would ever) have the chance to quit our jobs and spend six months together making memories and building a sound foundation for our marriage. I can tell you without a doubt it was the best decision we have ever made together (other than getting married). It made us better people and in turn better spouses.
There will always be jobs and always be homes. There might not always be time. And time is precious.
MuddyWaters
01-12-2012, 21:28
Go hike
The american dream is a myth, everyone is broke and up to eyeballs in debt.
When interest rates do go up, housing will continue to go DOWN. Funny how some dont understand this. They are as low as they are only to prop up housing, which still hasnt bottomed in many areas
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 21:35
The american dream is a myth, everyone is broke and up to eyeballs in debt.
Paleeeeeeze.............
Keep that BS to yourself...........
CrumbSnatcher
01-12-2012, 21:45
everyday i fight the good fight trying to keep my girls fed and clothed. everyday i lose work to other companys including all the illegals (undocumented workers) in my trade, hard to keep a positive outlook on life sometimes!
but i still think we live in the greatest country in the world!
Lone Wolf
01-12-2012, 21:45
The american dream is a myth, everyone is broke and up to eyeballs in debt.
oh really. i got a house, Harley , truck and golf clubs all paid for and a lady that loves me. i made the dream happen. sorry your life sucks :D
jjimen16
01-12-2012, 21:55
living the american dream does not necessarily mean owning a home. living your dreams is the real american dream. and theyre not the same thing.
Like this guy said
Go hike
The american dream is a myth, everyone is broke and up to eyeballs in debt.
When interest rates do go up, housing will continue to go DOWN. Funny how some dont understand this. They are as low as they are only to prop up housing, which still hasnt bottomed in many areas
yep - why banks financed folks that barely had two nickels to rub together with combined incomes of squat was because they "got them qualified" for the absolute rosiest scenario maximum they could stand baffles me - it was a disorganized (non-intentional) conspiracy of sorts. The realtors, subdivision developers (who raped a bunch of land), the lawyers, the appraisers and the buyers themselves (who for some stupid GD reason felt entitled to a 4 bedroom, 3 bathroom, walk in closet mini-mansion with granite countertops) were all in it. The whole thing has always been a monster house of cards. Being a craftsperson (I build nice little things that are well made - like garden sheds, and wood fired hot tubs, and set some tile - mostly antique stuff), I've sort of rubbed up against this crowd. --- I really don't get it. How about THIS: go hike, save your money and rent a nice place on a long term lease. When you have enough cash to buy a house with cash, then, maybe - but you'll hold all the cards then. I do own - (no mortgage - just me and my wife) but, really home -ownership (and certainly the MORTGAGE) is not all it's cracked up to be.
hikerboy57
01-12-2012, 21:58
oh really. i got a house, Harley , truck and golf clubs all paid for and a lady that loves me. i made the dream happen. sorry your life sucks :D
i own very little( my exwife showed me the light).i also need very little, and im happier than ive ever been.my boss pays for my car, i rent an apartment, i own my hiking gear, TV, Blu ray, guitar, and a keurig single cup coffee maker i got for xmas(havent slept since).my moneys tied up in change, and i dont need anything else.diffenert dreams, but neither one sucks.
Pay off your debts. Stop working for the banks.
Now there's a dream.
Also, hike for yourself, not for the service providers.
The American dream is your own dream. Not defined for all by purchased items.
living the american dream does not necessarily mean owning a home. living your dreams is the real american dream. and theyre not the same thing.
Like this guy said
it seems that us crazy people who say - go live your life and screw buying a house (ever) are now giving you advice. I'm going to be silent (for a moment) - you go back and read MAGS' post - it's a good one.
rocketsocks
01-12-2012, 22:10
+1 on the "not the same thing"57
My grandfather bought house in the 1920s and lost it during the depression when his salary was cut in half and he got transfered. Never borrowed money again. Hated banks. Didn't own a house again until he could pay cash, in the 1950s.
Dad would only get a loan for a house. Payed for everything else in cash, including cars.
I borrow for everything. I will probably get screwed when interest rates go back up, and lose the house, and then the cycle will repeat itself again. Hopefully, my daughter will never borrow money, for anything.
One Half
01-12-2012, 22:47
Do it now.
We didn't and we are still waiting almost 20 years later to have that freedom back.
One Half
01-12-2012, 22:48
Do it now.
We didn't and we are still waiting almost 20 years later to have that freedom back.
oops. Do the hike now.
the problem with mortgages is that they are viewed as so "acceptable" - if you told someone you were $250,000 in debt on a credit card, they would think you were a foolish spendthrift - if you tell them you have a $250,000 mortgage, they regard you as someone with intellect - the interest rate is a lower and you are buying something but the debt is still the debt. When you finish paying your $250K mortgage off over 30 years you've probably paid about twice that. If you were to invest and save your money (and rent at the same time) you'd end up with $250K in cash quicker than you think - strike a cash bargain and pay $200K for the $250K house and pocket $300K. Now, some smart-allec banker / hiker is going to torpedo my post right about now .....
oh, yeah - just do the hike either way
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 23:15
the problem with mortgages is that they are viewed as so "acceptable" - if you told someone you were $250,000 in debt on a credit card, they would think you were a foolish spendthrift - if you tell them you have a $250,000 mortgage, they regard you as someone with intellect - the interest rate is a lower and you are buying something but the debt is still the debt. When you finish paying your $250K mortgage off over 30 years you've probably paid about twice that. If you were to invest and save your money (and rent at the same time) you'd end up with $250K in cash quicker than you think - strike a cash bargain and pay $200K for the $250K house and pocket $300K. Now, some smart-allec banker / hiker is going to torpedo my post right about now .....
oh, yeah - just do the hike either way
You are equating depreciating assets with appreciating assets. Your math does not add up. The typical house, over a typical 30-year period, will most probably be worth twice as much.
oh, yeah - just do the hike.......;)
the problem with mortgages is that they are viewed as so "acceptable" - if you told someone you were $250,000 in debt on a credit card, they would think you were a foolish spendthrift - if you tell them you have a $250,000 mortgage, they regard you as someone with intellect - the interest rate is a lower and you are buying something but the debt is still the debt. When you finish paying your $250K mortgage off over 30 years you've probably paid about twice that. If you were to invest and save your money (and rent at the same time) you'd end up with $250K in cash quicker than you think - strike a cash bargain and pay $200K for the $250K house and pocket $300K. Now, some smart-allec banker / hiker is going to torpedo my post right about now .....
oh, yeah - just do the hike either way
When a mortgage is roughly the same as renting, then it becomes a good decision. The other costs of owning a house make it more expensive at first, but assuming a fixed interest rate and no funny business in the mortgage, the cost of home ownership goes down every year, while the cost of renting remains the same. Even if the costs of home ownership throughout the mortgage was equal to the cost of renting, the homeowner would still be ahead because the house could be sold while the renter has nothing to show for renting.
Now if you can rent a comparable place for a fraction of the cost of home ownership, then the table skews. I don't know at what point one becomes better than the other. I'd have to spend some time working with Excel and doing some research, and I don't have that time for the next two weeks.
That said, the big problem is when people get a mortgage that's too big a fraction of their reliable income. That same problem isn't as severe when renting because it's relatively easy to get out of a rental agreement.
CrumbSnatcher
01-13-2012, 01:10
most 24 yr olds are still livin' at home, parents probably beggin them to go hiking, get a job or something :-)
redheadedhiker674
01-13-2012, 01:15
DO BOTH! But a Tumbleweed Tiny House and Thru Hike. :) http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ These houses are so cute.
You are equating depreciating assets with appreciating assets. Your math does not add up. The typical house, over a typical 30-year period, will most probably be worth twice as much.
oh, yeah - just do the hike.......;)
When you figure in property taxes paid, insurance paid, and huge maintenance and capital improvement bills over a 30-year period - replacing roofs, hvac systems, etc. plus optional expenses like appliances PLUS the fact that most people re-finance every 5 years or so and take MORE money, my math might add up better than you think. A renter who puts away $1000 a month in savings vs plowing that into a house really might be much better off financially - depreciating your asset while it appreciates doesn't always work out the way bankers and accountants would lead you to believe. Before you write me off as crazy, check out this article about how buying a home (might be) is a bad investment (and remember, I own a nice house fee-simple ... I'm just making an interesting point):
realestate.msn.com/blogs/listedblogpost.aspx?post=9c291709-2cc8-49a4-9ffe-d7f85942b0a8
DO BOTH! But a Tumbleweed Tiny House and Thru Hike. :) http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ These houses are so cute.
+1 to these
redheadedhiker674
01-13-2012, 01:17
http://fayettewoman.com/tiny-house-big-style.html
Toolshed
01-13-2012, 01:25
........
The american dream is a myth, everyone is broke and up to eyeballs in debt.
.......Not quite... Theres plenty of us that don't fit that mold....
Completly agree with you. My plan is to save enough to build a 900 square foot cabin when the kids are out of the house. Will live in a used camper until its dried in. The thought of $500k after thirty years on a $250k house bothers me. I realized I only use about 800 sq ft of space.
You are equating depreciating assets with appreciating assets. Your math does not add up. The typical house, over a typical 30-year period, will most probably be worth twice as much.
oh, yeah - just do the hike.......;)
When you figure in property taxes paid, insurance paid, and huge maintenance and capital improvement bills over a 30-year period - replacing roofs, hvac systems, etc. plus optional expenses like appliances PLUS the fact that most people re-finance every 5 years or so and take MORE money, my math might add up better than you think. A renter who puts away $1000 a month in savings vs plowing that into a house really might be much better off financially - depreciating your asset while it appreciates doesn't always work out the way bankers and accountants would lead you to believe. Before you write me off as crazy, check out this article about how buying a home (might be) is a bad investment (and remember, I own a nice house fee-simple ... I'm just making an interesting point):
realestate.msn.com/blogs/listedblogpost.aspx?post=9c291709-2cc8-49a4-9ffe-d7f85942b0a8
mrclean417
01-13-2012, 01:52
I've typed this three times. I have yet to keep it civil.
There is the adult thing to do, which is to buy a house at unbelievable market lows and fantastically low loan rates.
There is the child thing to do and go walking for 10,000 dollars, because it makes you feel good about yourself.
I think we spend far too much time feeling good about ourselves now and forgetting that there are far greater awards for being responsible. All good things? Listen, do it right and when you're retired at 55 and able to go all over the world to hike you won't regret not buying that wave runner and pissing 10 grand away to go walk and camp out.
The dumbest, and I mean really dumb, thing you did was come to THIS board and ask if it was a good idea. Might as well go down to skid row and ask the derelict drunks if it was a good idea to go buy a bottle.
Feral Bill
01-13-2012, 02:10
According to the real estate folks it is always a good time to buy.
According to the real estate folks it is always a good time to sell.
Don't try to time the market. If you want to buy a modest home now because thats where you want to live, you may choose to do that. If you would rather hike, do that. You'll be fine either way.
DO BOTH! But a Tumbleweed Tiny House and Thru Hike. :) http://www.tumbleweedhouses.com/ These houses are so cute.
I didn't really want to read all the replies to your post, but I did. The above was one that made me smile.
Based on your age, people will tell you to cut loose and go.
Wisdom may lend another view though.
BASED ON YOUR AGE, and your attitude striving for potentially both a house and an incredible journey, I would suggest you buy the house now - with a good down payment too.
Then PLAN the hike! You are both young enough where you're not losing much waiting a little time.
Best wishes to believing in and living your dreams.
Cheers!
~ Mark
strollingalong
01-13-2012, 03:20
I've typed this three times. I have yet to keep it civil.
There is the adult thing to do, which is to buy a house at unbelievable market lows and fantastically low loan rates.
There is the child thing to do and go walking for 10,000 dollars, because it makes you feel good about yourself.
I think we spend far too much time feeling good about ourselves now and forgetting that there are far greater awards for being responsible. All good things? Listen, do it right and when you're retired at 55 and able to go all over the world to hike you won't regret not buying that wave runner and pissing 10 grand away to go walk and camp out.
The dumbest, and I mean really dumb, thing you did was come to THIS board and ask if it was a good idea. Might as well go down to skid row and ask the derelict drunks if it was a good idea to go buy a bottle.
don't miss out on too much now.
really?! it was actually a pretty awesome thing to do. Look how many angles this problem has now.
strollingalong
01-13-2012, 03:21
ps. worst analogy ever
Jim Adams
01-13-2012, 03:38
Go hike!
You may never get the chance if you buy the house. Sure the market is depressed and full of great buys but that also assures that there are easy ways to buy a house if you have income. There are alot of perks like "first time buyer", some government credits and deals and tax breaks. I bought a house last year...my first since purchasing one 1972 and it cost me $500 in "hand" money and a check for $68 at closing...BTW, I got a government tax break of $6,800 back on my tax return...I seriously considered another thru hike but paid off other debt instead. My monthly mortgage payment is lower than my old rent BUT now if I want to thru hike again...I have to cover the payment first.
Go hike...housing will always be available.
geek
Buy a house that is both modest and will accomodate you and any children you might have for the rest of your lives, and once you pay it off never mortgage it again...do it on a 15 year mortgage (at most) and then work two jobs and pay it off in half the time. You'll have 7 years to plan your thruhike. When you're 24 that seems like an awfully long time, but believe me, the years will start flying by about the time you hit 25 if they haven't already. You'll wake up in your early 30s with a paid for house and the rest of your life ahead of you.
That's what I wish someone had told me when I was your age.
Completly agree with you. My plan is to save enough to build a 900 square foot cabin when the kids are out of the house. Will live in a used camper until its dried in. The thought of $500k after thirty years on a $250k house bothers me. I realized I only use about 800 sq ft of space.
I live in about 450 square feet and think its too big for one person. Small and paid for is the way to go.
hikerboy57
01-13-2012, 08:15
Buy a house that is both modest and will accomodate you and any children you might have for the rest of your lives, and once you pay it off never mortgage it again...do it on a 15 year mortgage (at most) and then work two jobs and pay it off in half the time. You'll have 7 years to plan your thruhike. When you're 24 that seems like an awfully long time, but believe me, the years will start flying by about the time you hit 25 if they haven't already. You'll wake up in your early 30s with a paid for house and the rest of your life ahead of you.
That's what I wish someone had told me when I was your age.
and then you have kids and so on....hike now. people have gotten spoiled with the wild appreciation of real estate over the past 50 years.just as nasdaq still hasnt recovered from the internet bubble, the real estate market overall will not return to those double digit annual returns any time soon.the housing market should remain flat for the next few years. theres plenty of housing, just not enough affordable housing and until that balances with income levels,there wont be any runaway market. . 6 months to thru hike? youre not missing anything while you're out on the trail.and again, you may decide after a few months, you've had enough of the trail. and thats okay too.there'll always be opportunities in real estate. in any market, if you're patient.
Sierra Echo
01-13-2012, 08:28
Go thru hike now and if your marriage lasts, buy a house!!!
Pioneer Spirit
01-13-2012, 10:08
Buy my house and then I will be free to do the hike.
Megapixel
01-13-2012, 10:17
The mere fact that you are considering both tells me you should take some time and thru hike first. Once you own, you may regret not being able to go after this dream for 15-30 years. Either one is a huge undertaking / commitment. I wish you both all the best.
mrclean417
01-13-2012, 10:20
don't miss out on too much now.
really?! it was actually a pretty awesome thing to do. Look how many angles this problem has now.
Oh GOD did I REALLY hit send last night? I thought I'd gotten down to a revision of the last paragraph and then just gave up and went to bed. must start using a text editor to make a reply eliminating hitting the idiot send button on accident.
Different folks, different goals.
Exactly. There is no right answer. For some people, owning a home could provide much happiness in life.
For others, it could be a tie down to a life that is not already satisfying.
And sometimes it is a matter of timing. I am honestly glad I did not start putting down roots until a little over two years ago. My youngest brother OTOH became a dad at 20 and is a proud father of a two year old. We are both happy and found different paths in our lives that work for us.
We have no kids , not much debt and jobs, not careers that we would be neglecting. $10,000 isn't just for the trip but living expenses when we get back without jobs. We also have a strong belief that marriage is suppose to last a lifetime. We are completely okay with taking such a mentally and physical trip together and have alone time when needed.
Sounds like you can't go wrong. I'd be tempted to do the hike now and buy the house later.
One thing to think about are contingency plans. What if one of you decides or has to quit? Will there be a home for that person to go to?
What if he quits and she wants to keep going - are you good with your wife hiking up the trail without you? (hey, I know, but there are guys who absolutely could not deal with that).
Stuff like that.
ChinMusic
01-13-2012, 14:32
When you figure in property taxes paid, insurance paid, and huge maintenance and capital improvement bills over a 30-year period - replacing roofs, hvac systems, etc. plus optional expenses like appliances PLUS the fact that most people re-finance every 5 years or so and take MORE money, my math might add up better than you think.
To think that renting an equivalent house is cheaper that owning only required one simple question.
.
Why do landlords choose to be landlords?
A: It makes them money.
hikerboy57
01-13-2012, 14:47
funny while we continue to argue the merits of responsibility vs peter pan syndrome, the OP is busy making her thru hiking plans on an adjacent thread.the best time to be irresponsible is when you can afford to, while you're young.whats that expression"my kids grew up in spite of my best efforts."?
ChinMusic
01-13-2012, 14:55
10K and I, who voiced strong opinons against a guy quiting a job with family and thru, are in favor of this one. There are many on here that would be hard-pressed to find a circumstance where they WOULDN'T say "go hike".
I have wanted to hike the AT for years and allowed life to get in the way... Go hike and the rest will work its self out.
-SEEKER-
01-13-2012, 15:22
think about if you buy a house, you probably wont be thruhiking for 15+yrs.if thats ok, then buy the house.
I agree with this thought.
BobTheBuilder
01-13-2012, 15:34
Since you are not likely to finish anyway, it won't take all of your money. Probably be off the trail inside of a month, so maybe just put in for a long vacation and then when you get off the trail you can back to your job and buy the house.
Alternately, you could buy 10,000 lottery tickets and do both if you win, do neither if you lose.
gravityman
01-13-2012, 15:44
We attempted a thru in 2001 before marriage, after we had just both graduated (my grad school, her undergrad) and with a firm job offer in hand for the Fall. We made it 1/2 way before sickness and injury pushed us off. We got married in 2002 since we knew we got along really well. We bought a Townhome at the same time that we knew we could pay for with my income alone. Then we started saving for the hike with my wife's income including enough to cover the mortgage. We hiked in 2005 all the way from GA->ME and I came back to the same job after my LWOP. Kid in 2007, 2nd in 2009. You can do it all, or at least all that you want to do. No reason to make a choice really.
StealthHikerBoy
01-13-2012, 15:53
Keep in mind that when you come to a hiking message board, opinions are going to be skewed towards going for the hike.
I tend to always lean towards not hiking if other personal responsibilities will be sacrificed. It seems like your main responsibilities are to each other, so you may never find a better time. I say go hike.
$5K per person for 6 months … who doesn’t spend at least $5K in a 6 month period for housing, transportation, and food in their real lives? Your biggest financial concern is losing 6 months of income for 2 people and not the down payment on the house. The only thing that would give me pause if I were you is if one or both of you have a great employment situation you are likely to lose if you go. Even then you are young and you’ll find opportunity.
The house will be there for you down the line, just apply the “trail frugality” you will learn to your life back home and you’ll be fine.
Sassafras Lass
01-13-2012, 16:11
My grandfather bought house in the 1920s and lost it during the depression when his salary was cut in half and he got transfered. Never borrowed money again. Hated banks. Didn't own a house again until he could pay cash, in the 1950s.
Dad would only get a loan for a house. Payed for everything else in cash, including cars.
I borrow for everything. I will probably get screwed when interest rates go back up, and lose the house, and then the cycle will repeat itself again. Hopefully, my daughter will never borrow money, for anything.
Agree, agree, agree.
I'm turning 28 next month. Up until May 2009, my husband and I paid cash for everything, paved our own way, weren't in an ounce of debt, and thought we were doing great.
Then I fell off my bicycle and busted up my mouth - to the tune of emergency surgery in the ER and a nice $16,000+ bill - with more to follow.
We went from being hard-working Americans who made good decisions and paid in cash and saved to being . . . . hard-working Americans who make good decisions and pay in cash and save, except I've got creditors chasing after me for thousands of dollars I can't produce out of thin air.
Oh, and I'm still missing 5 front bottom teeth, and the 4 front top teeth they put back are chipped and discolored. And new implanted teeth? $28,000. Still $13,000 even in dental-touring Mexico. And partial dentures that are stabilized are floating around $10,000.
Try getting employed when you can't smile at anyone. I haven't smiled in nearly 3 years. And on a more bitter side note, because I'm not a child, because I'm not a whore with a few baby daddies, because I'm not a minority, because I'm not disabled or elderly or a war veteran, no one cares about me and will extend an olive branch. I've been looking for help for 3 years (if anyone has knowledge about the help I need, I'd very much love a PM from you.)
So . . . . what it boils down to is this: s*** happens. Despite your efforts, despite everything. You get one life, and there's no sense doing what you're "supposed" to do if your heart lies elsewhere. Go hiking. There are always houses to buy when you get back. Buying a house won't give you a wider perspective, but hiking will. You will likely discover ways to make your soul sing that you never knew existed.
WingedMonkey
01-13-2012, 19:09
And on a more bitter side note, because I'm not a child, because I'm not a whore with a few baby daddies, because I'm not a minority, because I'm not disabled or elderly or a war veteran, no one cares about me and will extend an olive branch.
Are you sure you don't qualify under any of those criteria?
LIhikers
01-13-2012, 19:44
Hmmm.....a kick azz vacation or taking the first step to financial security......seems like the answer is obvious to me.
There's no such thing as financial security, not really. There's a million things that can affect your future and you don't have any control over a lot of them. Go hike!
Are you sure you don't qualify under any of those criteria?
Approximately 20 people a year are killed by cows.......
birdygal
01-13-2012, 19:56
Go thru hike now and if your marriage lasts, buy a house!!!
Said perfectly because divorce ruins a lot of peoples credit and you won't have a house no more perfect marriage test too if you can put up with a smelly, cranky, person 24/7 for 6 months you have a good shot at married bliss
I would imagine you will be much more likely to get employed after your hike with your credentials. I would hire someone like yourself who can say they completed a thru hike in any job field.
ChinMusic
01-13-2012, 20:29
Said perfectly because divorce ruins a lot of peoples credit and you won't have a house no more perfect marriage test too if you can put up with a smelly, cranky, person 24/7 for 6 months you have a good shot at married bliss
I gotta say, there is a lot of wisdom in that post.
Very Matty like........
Sassafras Lass
01-13-2012, 20:37
Are you sure you don't qualify under any of those criteria?
What does that mean?
I don't necessarily see this as an "either/or" proposition. I would like to hope that it could possibly be a "both/and" opportunity. Perhaps you can BOTH thru hike AND buy a home--all within the next 3-5 years. You simply have to weigh all the options and ask yourself many questions.
You are age 24 and were already able to save $10,000. How long would it take you to save $10,000 again? There is a good possibility that 3 years from now the housing market MIGHT still be somewhat low (but not as low as right now). Are you willing to risk paying more in interest and fees? (Paying just a 1% higher interest rate can amount to a very large additional financial cost over the term of a 20-30 year mortgage). That is a BIG consideration. On the other hand, ultimately, it is not a "crime" to be age 30 and still renting a residence. Numerous people do it. For many people, renting is actually financially BETTER than buying. You will have to do some soul-searching (and some careful math) and then decide what is best for you. (It might really boil down to flipping a coin--just like one poster suggested).
How great are your current jobs? Are the jobs fairly good and "stable"--with a promising future? Would it be a BIG mistake to leave them? Would your jobs still be there when you get back? (or will you get back from a thru hike with no money, no place to live and no viable employment prospects? Then what will you do?). How employable are you?
Do you have family members who you can count on to WILLINGLY be your "safety net" if all goes wrong and you end up broke, unemployed, homeless, and not readily employable? Your answer to that question might be one of the biggest factors to consider.
Frankly, if you were my kids, and if I had a spare $10,000 and/or if I had the ability for you live with me (if all of your post-hike plans fell apart)--I would probably beg you to take the hike now. Conversely, if you had good jobs and a promising future in your current situation--and if there was no family "safety net"--I would probably kick your butts if you dared to quit your promising jobs to go on a thru hike.
In the end, I would look really hard for ways to make this a "both/and"--not an "either/or" situation. I personally believe that you can probably have your cake and it it too.
You get one life, and....
Step out of the door where you now live and start walking in any direction. You will pass by many houses sooner or later no matter which way you walk. as you will see, it's not really a significant thing to buy a house..or a car...or a boat. Ask the homeowner how they feel about buying/paying for a house.See if they are 100% happy with that decision.
Now, step out of your door and keep walking until you meet someone who has walked from Maine to Georgia (or vice versa). ask this person how they felt about thru-hiking. Chances are you won't find any thru-hikers who regret walking the trail. And for many Americans, by the time they walk far enough to locate one they will have walked a significant part of the trail.
Life really isn't about the things you buy, it's about the things you do. I own my house and have thru-hiked so I feel qualified to speak to both. BTW, I was glad to hear these people are busy already planning their hike. Best wishes to them.
From the husband - Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic!!! We have looked at everything and we have decided to hike the trail in 2013.
A lot of our decision came down to this. We are still young, we figured that it will take us roughly three years to re-save the money for a house. The bigger issue is that we don't have great careers right now, and we don't even really know where we want to live. Instead of the money sitting in a bank untill we figure all this out, we are going for a long walk. My goal is to work in a national/state park, so this will be a HUGE boost to the resume as an added bonus!
This has been a dream of mine since I was 14 and did 14 days on the trail with a youth group. The timing has never been right untill now. Well Thank you for all your great input, and thank you all for supporting my wife and I's goal. We look forward to getting to know you and pick you brains for knowledge.
I totally forgot you said you were married. In that case, just do what your wife says. Its a no brainer.
kennybrae
01-13-2012, 21:55
Buy your house and pay your mortgage down as fast as you can. You'll enjoy your hikes more when you have your home to come back to.
ChinMusic
01-14-2012, 00:06
From the husband - Thank you all for your thoughts on this topic!!! We have looked at everything and we have decided to hike the trail in 2013.
Hope to see you folks out there in 2013. That is my year too. I'm in that "other" dominant AT age group.
go hike before global warming ruins this place - I ran today shirtless - mid January - it's just too weird - I hope this summer is not one where the water sources on the AT are gallon jugs left at the road full of water from the ColoradoOgallala Aquifer since there is NO SNOW there to re-charge it!! -- Sorry for the rant.
Just FYI, The Ogallala Aquifer is considered fossil water. It will not 're-charge'. It does not 'refill' with rain or snow melt. Once it's gone, it's gone, just like the oil. And the Ogallala Aguifer is emptying at the rate of 3 meters per year.
Here's what you do to find out if you really want to hike or not. Take a coin and flip it. Say heads to hike, tails to buy. Then, when you get your answer, do a gut check on how you first felt when the coin told you what to do. If you are happy about the outcome, you'll feel it. If you're not happy about the outcome, you'll feel it. Then you know what to do. Works for me every time.
garlic08
01-14-2012, 15:19
Buy your house and pay your mortgage down as fast as you can. You'll enjoy your hikes more when you have your home to come back to.
I second this. After you own your home free and clear, all sorts of possibilities open up. Just imagine it.
English Stu
01-14-2012, 15:39
Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things
that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the
bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds
in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
--Mark Twain
BlackCloud
01-15-2012, 00:51
I've typed this three times. I have yet to keep it civil.
There is the adult thing to do, which is to buy a house at unbelievable market lows and fantastically low loan rates.
There is the child thing to do and go walking for 10,000 dollars, because it makes you feel good about yourself.
I think we spend far too much time feeling good about ourselves now and forgetting that there are far greater awards for being responsible. All good things? Listen, do it right and when you're retired at 55 and able to go all over the world to hike you won't regret not buying that wave runner and pissing 10 grand away to go walk and camp out.
The dumbest, and I mean really dumb, thing you did was come to THIS board and ask if it was a good idea. Might as well go down to skid row and ask the derelict drunks if it was a good idea to go buy a bottle.
Post of the year.
My vote, with limited information about the two of you, if you are REALLY committed to thru hiking together and think that you and your relationship can handle it...............take the hike.
You are young, no kids, free to make a decision like this............if you don't do it and buy a house, then get jobs, 2 weeks off per year..........you might very well regret this for a long time.
Real estate is not the "investment" it once was, to me your house is your home, its not meant to be a mutual fund. Money can be made and saved, homes and other assets can a will be acquired in your lives together, go hike, have a blast, agree that the relationship is more important than anything else...........go for it.
I have met several couples on their thru hikes................wish my wife were into backpacking.
At 52 we are de-cluttering and cutting back, crafting a simpler life...........hiking has become more important to me than acquiring more stuff.