View Full Version : How many calories do you need
TheYoungOne
01-12-2012, 17:17
So as a thru hiker, burning lots of calories on the trail, how many calories should you carry per day.
Packing my initial food bag I coming in at around 2200 calories per day and I'm thinking that is way too low.
HiKen2011
01-12-2012, 17:25
U need a bunch, thats way to low. Look for high calorie and fat content of food. 2200 calories? You'll starve!
jacob_springsteen
01-12-2012, 17:45
So as a thru hiker, burning lots of calories on the trail, how many calories should you carry per day.
Packing my initial food bag I coming in at around 2200 calories per day and I'm thinking that is way too low.
Depends upon how much excess body fat you have when you start out. Your body will utilize the fat and stave your appetite at first. Consider what you eat right now and then consider that you might consume more water than anything at first when you start out. Your age and body weight and resilience to rationing food are other factors to consider. All said, 4,000 calories per a day,eventually, might be a doable figure, on average.
Chummin' for Bear
01-12-2012, 17:46
I read somewhere that the average guy burns approximately 5,000 calories a day on the AT but YMMV depending on a lot of factors. Sicne it is very difficult to carry that much food weight, expect to run a caloric deficit of perhaps 1,500 to 2,000 per day) that you will have to make up in town every 3-5 days. Hope this helps.
jacob_springsteen
01-12-2012, 18:00
There are only a few places where getting and carrying ample food on the AT are a hassle. The 100 mile wilderness section may be the only one of them. Georgia relatively easy. TN and NC easy. Etc. There are some places that having a mail drop is the easiest way to resupply. Monson comes to mind again. Loading up on ready-to-eat calories when you get to town is great to do. All depends upon what you want to buy and your appetite and how much you want to carry back onto the trail.
ChinMusic
01-12-2012, 18:04
So as a thru hiker, burning lots of calories on the trail, how many calories should you carry per day.
Packing my initial food bag I coming in at around 2200 calories per day and I'm thinking that is way too low.
By "initial food bag" I assume you mean the first 3-4 days. I think that is fine. You will be eating like a sparrow early on. 2200/day by the time you get a few weeks in will be WAY too little.
I eat less on day 1. I usually pack half the food that I'll need later in the hiker. My diet quickly ramps up though. I think part of that is getting used to your body, and recognizing the signals it's sending you. I know when I start getting sluggish or cold, it's almost always because I am not eating enough.
Anyhow, double your intake. If you can, triple it. And by 'can', I mostly mean if you can somehow force that much food down your throat.
It depends on how many calories a day you can burn. Some people can burn more than others. If you are overweight you can also reduce this by about 1000 calories a day, until your weight gets closer to normal. I am 6' tall and 49 years old and have a lean body mass of about 150 pounds. I can burn about 6000 calories a day on the trail. Not sure how long I can keep that up. Some smaller people can burn more. Some bigger people can burn less. If I did a thru-hike I would start off at about 5000 kcal per day burned, and about 4000 kcal a day in food until my weight got down. That would take me about 12 miles a day on the southern AT, based on my experience up here on the Fundy Footpath and Dobson Trail. That would be with about 220 pounds total weight on feet. As I lose weight I would cover more ground per day on the same calories.
So my rough guess is...
Miles Per Day x Total Weight on Feet in Pounds x 2 - 1000 calories if you have at least 30 pounds of fat to lose.
For me... 12 x 220 x 2 - 1000 = 5280 - 1000 = 4280 kcal per day.
My recommendation is 10-15% protien, 30-60% carbohydrates, 30-60% fat. Whatever in that range feels good, and is REAL food.
I didn't account for basal metabolism and rest of day activities. Assume 10 calories per pound.
Assuming I got the total calories about right the new and improved formula is as follows...
{ Total Weight on Feet x 10 } + { Total Weight On Feet x Miles Per Day } - 1000 calories if you have at least 30 pounds of fat to lose
So for me, if I was 200 pounds + 20 pounds skin out...
200 x 10 + 220 x 12 - 1000 = 2000 + 2640 - 1000 = 3640 calories per day
If I was 165 pounds with 15 pounds skin out hiking 20 miles per day with no fat to loose...
165 x 20 + 180 x 20 = 3300 + 3600 = 6900 calories per day
Whoopsa,
Make that 165 x 10 +180 x 20 = 1650 + 3600 = 5250 kcal per day, not 6900.
I think the really extreme numbers are for the guys doing 30 miles per day or more.
Alot of people kick the starving word around pretty loosely. I think the only starving thru-hikers are the ones down to less than 10% body fat. There are probably alot of malnourished thru-hikers though, consuming too many empty calories. I read about a 3 hour diet today. It said if you go more than 3 hours between meals your body goes into starvation mode and stops burning fat and burns muscle instead, to conserve the fat. This is total nonsense. There are some valid arguments for more meals vs fewer meals, but that ain't it. Even when actively hiking, burning 500 kcal per hour, which is hoofing it, your body should be burning 1/2 to 2/3 of that as fat, so only about 200 kcal per hour in carbs, so you should be able to go about 5-10 hours before running out of carbohydrates, especially if you started your hike on a full stomach. For every day living, which the diet was refering to, the problem is not in running low on blood sugar between meals, but in overloading in carbs if you eat big meals that are high in carbs, without being low in glycogen reserves like after a long run or day of hiking. One or two big meals a day will work fine, as long as it is not high in carbs. You never want to take in more carbs than your current glycogen deficit.
I am 6'4" 220, 15% body fat and work out 6 days a week and I have a hard time putting down 4000 cal a day. I can't imagine trying to get 6000 cal down.
--louis
kayak karl
01-12-2012, 22:37
you will need more then you can consume. just accept it.
I am 6'4" 220, 15% body fat and work out 6 days a week and I have a hard time putting down 4000 cal a day. I can't imagine trying to get 6000 cal down.
--louisInteresting. You would have to adapt, or hike slower than some, if that is the case. I would think that you would adapt, as it sounds like you are in good shape. I think there is something to be said for the digestive system itself being something that can increase and decrease in capacity. If you are an athlete that has been disciplined to never consume more than 4000 kcal per day, and commonly consume less, then perhaps your digestive system would have adapted to this smaller capacity. If you have trained yourself to consume more, either by being more of an ultradistance athlete, or a common everyday overweight glutton like myself, then you would probably have a capacity to eat more. It is something that is probably quite adaptable though, even during a hike. There is always going to be something that limits you miles per day. For some it might be muscle strength, or weak joints, or extra weight. For others it might be the bodies ability to repair itself. For others it might be how much food they can digest while hiking 8-12 hours a day. Cheers.
I am 6'4" 220, 15% body fat and work out 6 days a week and I have a hard time putting down 4000 cal a day. I can't imagine trying to get 6000 cal down.
--louisSo using my formula, which is sketchy at best, you should be able to start out hiking...
Assuming 20 pounds of gear, clothing, food...
220 x 10 + 240 x Miles Per Day - 0 = 4000 kcal per day
(4000 - 2200 ) / 240 = 1800/240 = 7.5 Miles per Day
That's not much. Either my formula is crap, or you would need to learn to eat more. Probably both.
So as a thru hiker, burning lots of calories on the trail, how many calories should you carry per day.
Packing my initial food bag I coming in at around 2200 calories per day and I'm thinking that is way too low.
Buy about 40 candy bars at every resupply and eat at least 10 of them a day. And get some of those extra large Honey Buns...they have like 900 calories in one of those all by itself. If eating doesn't become a chore then you aren't getting enough calories. Stop and eat something every hour.
Naw. No candy bars. What you want to do is freebase about 1500g of sucrose directly into one of the major arteries in your leg. Otherwise you still run the risk of taking in some vitamins and minerals and crap like that.
One Half
01-13-2012, 09:18
Alot of people kick the starving word around pretty loosely. I think the only starving thru-hikers are the ones down to less than 10% body fat. There are probably alot of malnourished thru-hikers though, consuming too many empty calories. I read about a 3 hour diet today. It said if you go more than 3 hours between meals your body goes into starvation mode and stops burning fat and burns muscle instead, to conserve the fat. This is total nonsense. There are some valid arguments for more meals vs fewer meals, but that ain't it. Even when actively hiking, burning 500 kcal per hour, which is hoofing it, your body should be burning 1/2 to 2/3 of that as fat, so only about 200 kcal per hour in carbs, so you should be able to go about 5-10 hours before running out of carbohydrates, especially if you started your hike on a full stomach. For every day living, which the diet was refering to, the problem is not in running low on blood sugar between meals, but in overloading in carbs if you eat big meals that are high in carbs, without being low in glycogen reserves like after a long run or day of hiking. One or two big meals a day will work fine, as long as it is not high in carbs. You never want to take in more carbs than your current glycogen deficit.
JAK - good post, mostly.
You guys should learn about Ketosis. Most people burn strictly carbs/sugar because it is so prevalent in our bodies (ie we consume so much) and our bodies hardly ever get into fat burning mode. If you understand ketosis and can get into and stay in ketosis and eat properly your body will burn fat very efficiently (whether hiking or not). The problem with most people is that they do not eat properly while in ketosis and end up burning muscle as their protein source or never truly get into ketosis to start. I don't know how easy this would be to maintain during a long distance hike as it does require a lot of protein to be consumed and most hikers tend to be carboholics at least while on trail.
I have been and continue to work on this on short trips and hopefully will be able to share my findings with this community in a short time. When I do though I want to be able to give people a light weight way to implement it that has been trail tested.
By Brenda L. Braaten, PH.D.,R.D.
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/PackLightEatRight/fat.htm
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/pack_light_eat_right.php
JAK - good post, mostly.
You guys should learn about Ketosis. Most people burn strictly carbs/sugar because it is so prevalent in our bodies (ie we consume so much) and our bodies hardly ever get into fat burning mode. If you understand ketosis and can get into and stay in ketosis and eat properly your body will burn fat very efficiently (whether hiking or not). The problem with most people is that they do not eat properly while in ketosis and end up burning muscle as their protein source or never truly get into ketosis to start. I don't know how easy this would be to maintain during a long distance hike as it does require a lot of protein to be consumed and most hikers tend to be carboholics at least while on trail.
I have been and continue to work on this on short trips and hopefully will be able to share my findings with this community in a short time. When I do though I want to be able to give people a light weight way to implement it that has been trail tested.
I don't think this is 100% correct. Your body doesn't have to go into ketosis in order to burn more fat than carbohydrates. It will burn more fat than carbohydrates, without ketosis under two circumstances. The first is during moderate ammounts of activity, in order to spare glycogen in anticipation of it getting low, and at lower levels of activity as long as blood glucose levels are not higher than needed. Both carbohydrates and fats are primary fuels. You have to restrict calories to burn excess body fat, but you don't have to cut out one to burn the other. The body is perfectly happy burning both at the same time, most of the time. A little ketosis now and then doesn't hurt though. Can be a good short term way to reduce over-dependance on carbohydrates.
The best way to burn more fat is not neccessarily to avoid carbs, but to avoid excess blood glucose levels. and to do more activity. High intensity activity will do, indirectly, because it will use up glycogen levels quickly, and burn more fat later to replenish them. Medium level activities can burn more fat directly and can be done for longer periods. Low level activities can burn fat also, because they can go all day, not that they should.
The brain can get by on ketones, but it would really prefer about 400 kcal of glucose, every day, regardless of activity level. It can't burn fatty acids directly like the rest of the body. This glucose can come from conversion of amino acids, and conversion of the glycerol with the breakdown of triglycerides into glycerol and fatty acids, but you might as well have at least 400 kcal of carbs every day, as a minimum. Up to 30% of calories burned, but no more than 60% of calories consumed. That leaves plenty of room for burning fat. Also, you don't need to consume fat to burn fat, but at least 10% fats in the diet as a percentage of calories burned is a good idea.
My diet:
Protien = 10-20% of calories burned, and up to 30% of daily food calories.
Carbs = 20-30% of calories burned, and up to 60% of daily food calories.
Fats= 50-60% of calories burned, but only up to 30% of daily food calories.
If I only eat 50% of what I burn, I aim for 20% protien, 60% carbs, 20% fat.
If I only eat 75% of what I burn, I aim for 20% protien, 40% carbs, 40% fat.
If I eat 100% of what I burn, I will aim for 20% protien, 20% carbs, and 60% fat.
Good point though, that ketosis is not neccessarily bad, and it can be performed on fats and excess protiens, and spare muscle and organ protiens. I think it can trigger human growth hormone also, which can be a good thing. So its ok to be a little hungry now and then. Intermittent fasting, intermittently. :-)
By Brenda L. Braaten, PH.D.,R.D.
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/PackLightEatRight/fat.htm
http://thru-hiker.com/articles/pack_light_eat_right.phpGood articles.
Have to read them in more detail, but doesn't appear to distinguish between the hiker that is burning body fat and the hiker that has no fat to burn. I like the 50% carb, 35% fat, 15% protien that they recommend for hikers, but if you are also burning body fat, which of those should be reduced, and how does that change the percentages in your food. I would suggest if you are getting 25% of your calories from body fat, you could reduce both the carbs and the fat, but keep the protien the same, so the percentages might become more like 50-30-20, or even 60-20-20, but maybe they aleady accounted for that. There are no real magic numbers, but there are good ranges, and they probably vary if you are burning some body fat. Leaner hikers should probably eat more fat. Fatter hikers don't really need to, as long as they restrict their calories and don't overdo total carbs.
I read the first one a little more carefully...
For Long Distance hikers:
Half the fat that you burn is from storage, half is supplied by the food you eat. To minimize pack weight, choose a higher fat menu. A 50-35-15 Diet on the trail is reasonable:
45-55% Calories from carbohydrate
35-40% Calories from fat
10-15% Calories from protein
OK, so in the case where 50% of fat is from body, that would make the above ratios as follows, as a fraction of calories consumed in the body...
50-35-15 would become 50-70-15 = 37% carbs, 52% fat, 11% protien in the body, which is about ideal. I like it. Great articles. Still reading.
Interesting what she says about lysine being the weakest link, most likely essential amino acid to be deficient. She recommends different foods to make it up. Lysine happens to be the only amino acid that is somewhat limited in oatmeal, for example. One way to make it up is with skim milk powder, which has some surplus lysine. Another good one is legumes, and better for vegans. Both are probably the best way to go because you want a balanced diet anyway. The other way to go is to have a little extra protien in your diet. This works because some of it will then be converted into glucose, and it so happens that Lysine is an amino acid which cannot be converted into glucose, so it is spared, and thus would no longer be deficient as long as the source, like oatmeal, has some, just not quite enough. 15% protien in calories burned, or perhaps 20% of your diet if you are also burning some body fat, would serve the purpose. The author leans in favour of sparing protien as a precious commodity, and there is a case for that. I think 20% is ok though, if it is only 15% of calories burned. I use 15%, so I have some buffer, but I'm a selfish bastard. lol
Whenever one can eat eat. The taste varies with luck.
Depends upon how much excess body fat you have when you start out. Your body will utilize the fat and stave your appetite at first. Consider what you eat right now and then consider that you might consume more water than anything at first when you start out. Your age and body weight and resilience to rationing food are other factors to consider. All said, 4,000 calories per a day,eventually, might be a doable figure, on average.
Agree with this - I carried and ate 1.3 to 1.5 lbs/day of dry calorie-dense foods (about 2800 to 3500 cals/day) and was losing a half-pound per day of weight over a three week section hike of 280 miles (Springer to Hot Springs). I figured that if I had kept on hiking, once losing excess body fat, I would need to carry 2 to 2.5 lbs of food a day with the goal of 4000-5000 calories a day, and fine tune from there. Town stops and trail magic can help a bit in getting some extra calories that weigh nothing on the trail. Add as much fat (oils, nut butters, nuts, cheese, icing/frosting, high fat snacks and cookies) as you can stand to get the most calories for the weight. I added a half-ounce to ounce of olive oil to all of my dinners for both flavor and calories.
garlic08
01-14-2012, 15:24
Agree with this - I carried and ate 1.3 to 1.5 lbs/day of dry calorie-dense foods (about 2800 to 3500 cals/day) and was losing a half-pound per day of weight over a three week section hike of 280 miles (Springer to Hot Springs). I figured that if I had kept on hiking, once losing excess body fat, I would need to carry 2 to 2.5 lbs of food a day with the goal of 4000-5000 calories a day, and fine tune from there. Town stops and trail magic can help a bit in getting some extra calories that weigh nothing on the trail. Add as much fat (oils, nut butters, nuts, cheese, icing/frosting, high fat snacks and cookies) as you can stand to get the most calories for the weight. I added a half-ounce to ounce of olive oil to all of my dinners for both flavor and calories.
The 4000+ calorie figure works for me, too, to maintain body weight long term. That's just under two pounds of food per day, with lots of nuts and cheese and oily snacks in there.
kevperro
01-22-2012, 17:34
Whatever you plan.... it won't be enough. I didn't have a lot of weight to lose and had a hard time keeping my weight up. I was going South Bound and by the time I reached Vermont my body was a freakin calorie smoking device..... I bet over 6000 caloroies a day. You get to make up some calorie deficiencies in trail towns and pigging out but I had a hard time keeping my body weight up.
I have just the opposite problem now days.
Carbs, fats, and protein thats it right... No wait dont forget vitamins and nutrients. Dont fall into eating emtpy calories or empty fats for that matter. Probably cant absorb more then 30 g of protein a day so dont go overboard, most dehydrated foods with give you your fats and protein and after enough of them your carbs but make sure you get your vitamins and nutrients. Without them you will start to mentally break and then all bets are off. Trail nutrition is in my opinion the most important thing. So eat your cupcakes but take your vitamins too.
MuddyWaters
01-23-2012, 20:23
you cannot carry all the food you will need. Fortunately, there are towns with pizza and ice cream .
jacquelineanngrant
01-24-2012, 14:10
Your body will tell you when you need more. There is no magic formula for figuring this out. Everyone is different, and your needs will change throughout your hike. I mail drop myself the basics and then pick up whatever extra I might need on the way. Like so many have said, try to make a good amount of your calories nutrient rich and don't worry about it too much. Nobody has ever really starved to death on the AT. Have fun!
WingedMonkey
01-24-2012, 16:05
4,000 - plus calories, 1 1/2 - 2 lbs food per day.
you will need more then you can consume. just accept it.
Or carry.
I read somewhere a few years ago that for an average sized male (whatever that means) needs 2000 calories a day just to maintain body weight if all he does is sit on the couch & watch TV. I don't know what the data was based on, or how accurate, but suffice it to say that 2200 cal a day for a hiker aint enough! Honestly, I have rarely carried that much, at least on a daily basis. I think my top average for a 3 week hike has been about 1500 a day. Granted, I have a fair amount of body fat to spare, so it's not a real issue for me for as short a time as I hike at one time (3 weeks being max) But carrying what I do, I lost 22 lbs in 20 days my last trip.