Dogs in the Shelters

[Ladyofthewoods]

My NOBO hike is planned for mid March. My hiking buddy has an allergy to pet hair and is concerned about folks keeping their dogs in the shelter. How can this be handled tactfully?

[Wise Old Owl]

Education. He's not allegic to dogs - he's allegic to enzymes in animal saliva. Most dogs lick themselves and so do horses, cats as part of grooming. Pet the animal and touch your face or eye - and bang! The body reacts to it...

Partial Solution - Bath your dog before you go - allow him/her to jump in streams - Rugby has a command for that "Get a drink"

Real Solution - They get a dog. 6 months the allergic reactions stop because the human body can adjust. Measurable difference after three.

[mrclean417]

Future Son in Law was terribly allergic to animals. We have 4 dogs and 3 cats. That was 3 years ago. No problems now.

[Wise Old Owl]

I forgot - You buddy can take benadryl too.

[Ladyofthewoods]

That's interesting. I don't mind education. I'll let her know to start sleeping with a dog now in preparation as apparently she'll have to learn to do so as no one here disputed the fact that they will be in the shelters. Not sure she'll do it (I'm pretty sure she won't).

[Sarcasm the elf]

In all honesty the most tactful way to handle this would be for your hiking buddy to avoid shelters and stay in a tent. You're not going to find many people who have decided to stay in a shelter for the night that are going to move out just because you have an objection something they are doing. Shelters are a public space and if you plan to use it then you should be prepared to put up with whoever else is using it (this is another good reason to choose a tent over shelters in general). From what I understand there no are rules prohibiting dogs from being in them and shelters are tricky since in practice the "rules" are (with a few exceptions) unenforceable guidelines.

Many dog owners including myself won't stay in shelters because we understand that not everyone wants a dog around and I don't always want my dog around everyone.

For what it's worth, I think that once you get on the trail you will find this to be a fairly minimal problem.

[kayak karl]

How can this be handled tactfully? DON'T SLEEP IN SHELTERS! were you considering asking THEM to leave????

[CrumbSnatcher]

bring a tent

[Ironbelly]

Since your a medical expert i guess..., there are people that are allergic to animal dandruff as well and not just their saliva. My sister can just sit in a house with an animal in it for awhile and will have her allergies start going crazy. You don't have to touch them.

[SassyWindsor]

Tell the hikers with the dog(s) about the allergy and see how that works out. I'll bet you'll get zero to leave a shelter or to not enter a shelter you've occupied. May even get a smart reply or two. Take a tent and stay clear of shelters. Otherwise, you may have trouble.

[Ladyofthewoods]

For lots of reasons, I think we'll be tenting a lot. But, on occasion, I know we'll be in a shelter. I don't wish to have arguments just wondering how she'll be able to handle this issue.

[kayak karl]

For lots of reasons, I think we'll be tenting a lot. But, on occasion, I know we'll be in a shelter. I don't wish to have arguments just wondering how she'll be able to handle this issue.
don't sleep with the dogs. why do you have more rights then the people with dogs????

[Slo-go'en]

A considerate owner will not let thier dog into a shelter in the first place. Of course, there are pleanty of inconsiderate dog owners out there, most of whom are not thru-hikers.

If you show up and there is already a dog in the shelter, not much you can do or say, the damage has been done. Best to move on. If you get there first and a dog shows up, politely or not so politely ask them to keep the dog away because of allergies. And because the dog is muddy, soaking wet and your down sleeping bag is already spread out.

[WingedMonkey]

You will soon find that the hikers that sleep their dogs in shelters are neither interested in you or their dogs comfort. Probably wouldn't want to be around them anyway.

[soilman]

Why should the hiker allergic to dogs have to stay in a tent. If you are hiking with a dog you should be considerate of others. This includes on the trail and at shelter sites. I have 4 dogs and leave them at home when I am hiking. On my 2010 thru hike I was awakened by a dog at the Overmountain shelter because an inconsiderate owner came in late with his dog and let the dog sleep on my sleeping bag.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Why should the hiker allergic to dogs have to stay in a tent. If you are hiking with a dog you should be considerate of others. This includes on the trail and at shelter sites. I have 4 dogs and leave them at home when I am hiking. On my 2010 thru hike I was awakened by a dog at the Overmountain shelter because an inconsiderate owner came in late with his dog and let the dog sleep on my sleeping bag.

The operative word in your reply above is SHOULD. Shelters are public places and if you stay in them you have to deal with whoever comes around regardless of whether or not they are considerate. In my experience, if you're not willing to deal with others using shelters on their own terms than the best way to deal with it is to not use them. Just my two cents.

[ChinMusic]

A considerate owner will not let thier dog into a shelter in the first place.

Correct. A dog owner even CONSIDERING having their dog in a shelter during peak thru season is not one which talking will do you any good. They are a lost cause.

[SassyWindsor]

Correct. A dog owner even CONSIDERING having their dog in a shelter during peak thru season is not one which talking will do you any good. They are a lost cause.

I'd apply rude, crude, and just inconsiderate jerk(s) to those hikers who set their tent up in a shelter, with or without their dog(s).

[Don H]

From the ATC website concerning dogs on the trail: "Take special measures at shelters. Keep your dog leashed in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days."

So even if dog owners followed the ATC guidelines and asked you if it was OK for their dog to stay in the shelter you can't do anything about the dog that was in there the night before. Then you have the problem of mice which might also cause an allergic reaction.

Do yourself a favor and stay in a tent. You won't have to worry about sleeping in a dirty crowded shelter with snoring, stinking hikers that come in late or leave before dawn. The only shelters I stayed in on my thru-hike were in the Smokys where it's required. You can usually tent near a shelter if you want company or somewhere along the trail if you want privacy. You can't plan on always staying in shelters since they might be full so you'll need to carry a tent anyway. You're not missing anything by staying out of the shelters.

[Slo-go'en]

You're not missing anything by staying out of the shelters.

Yea, but life is SO much easier when you can. Especially if it happens to rain.

[CrumbSnatcher]

not sure if it was because i was 32 on my first thruhike & raised with some manners
but i never tried to be inconsiderate to others. stayed in a few shelters with my dog , usually we moved out to tent if we even heard others might be coming. i lent my tent out 3 times to hikers that didn't have tent or tarp, and they didn't want my dog to be woken up,or have to move. they didn't have a shelter but enjoyed the night in my tent, said it was a nice change for them.
if the ATC says its ok to stay in the shelter if you play by the rules, then its ok for me.

[CrumbSnatcher]

nothing better than a tent

[CrumbSnatcher]

i took my tent on alot of hikes ,never dumb enough to let it roam free in a shelter :-)

[RevLee]

Is your hiking buddy allergic to mice? They are much more common in shelters than dogs.

[daddytwosticks]

Forgive me if I sound stupid or insensitive...aren't the woods full of animals with hair/fur? Will this cause your friend problems or is it only "pet hair"? :)

[Plodderman]

Would be hard to address that at each shelter so I would recommend tenting. I have stayed in shelters and tented near many shelters but can not remember many dog problems but I do not have allergies to them either. Good luck but I do believe in mangaing your own hike I would just tent.

[Don H]

Yea, but life is SO much easier when you can. Especially if it happens to rain.

If hikin' was easy everyone would do it! ;)

[ChinMusic]

My daughter has a severe allergy to peanuts. There is no way she could sleep on the floor at Texas Roadhouse, even after a good clean-up.

[zenkayaker]

or get a hammock system for thr climate and NOT go to the shelter's !!!! lot's of people do that and for other reasons as well !!! good hiking to ya both later on the trail zenkayaker

[zenkayaker]

sorry dude however a hammock has many more advantages than a tent- - - - and I can "rise-up" in a good mood in the AM lol!!! later on the trail zenkayaker

[bubblegum]

Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.

[CrumbSnatcher]

Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.as soon as you seen the dog you could of changed your mind? 3 hour ride, one hell of a yellow blaze :-) not all dogs or hikers are the same. my dog was cleaner than most hikers, and had plenty of rides tell me i got the ride cause i had a dog. some said they were concerned for the dog, or a dog lover. hiked with someone with a allergy to dogs also, surprised because my dog did not effect them.
really cool you offered up a ride,sorry it was a bad one :-(

[hikerboy57]

just bring a tent, you wont find too many dogs sleeping in shelters unless you're with a pack that has dogs you'll keep running into night after night. and for the few nights you do run into an "inconsiderate "dog owner w/ dog in shelter, those nights you tent.

[Sarcasm the elf]

Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.

Interestingly, the opening poster has no intention of bringing a dog, the question was specifically how to avoid them at shelters.

Kind of reminds me of this post...;)

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?79727-Reading-comprehension-and-replying-to-a-thread&highlight=reading+comprehension

(http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?79727-Reading-comprehension-and-replying-to-a-thread&highlight=reading+comprehension)In fairness though, it was really quite nice of you to go out of your way to help a hiker like that, hiding his dog like that while thumbing for a ride does seem kind of dishonest.

[jj2044]

Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.

and you couldnt of said no once you saw the dog ?? and didnt notice till AFTER they left that they were covered in fleas??? my personal opinion is your opinion is dumb.

[bamboo bob]

I dearly wish there were no dogs on the trail. they scare away the wild life. Wet dogs in shelters are awful;. i just wish people were considerate but they are not so I bring a nice tent.

[CrumbSnatcher]

keeping a wet dog out of shelters is a good idea,but hiking with a well trained dog is amazing time!

[ChinMusic]

keeping a wet dog out of shelters is a good idea,but hiking with a well trained dog is amazing time!

QFT

I read those that "dearly wish there were no dogs on the trail". I have no wish to ever meet them.

[stonedflea]

crumbsnatcher, i love how you're such an awesome dog advocate. :) although the attitudes these people have are doubtful to change anytime soon.

[CrumbSnatcher]

crumbsnatcher, i love how you're such an awesome dog advocate. :) although the attitudes these people have are doubtful to change anytime soon.from 1998-2005
my dog and i practically lived on the trail. most of my hiking before i ever joined WB(2008). never seen the negativity towards dogs on the trail :-) just on the internet.
Stonedflea thanks for the kind words, not only was my dog pretty cool,but she was my best friend, so i kept her safe and away from trouble

[Spokes]

You will soon find that the hikers that sleep their dogs in shelters are neither interested in you or their dogs comfort. Probably wouldn't want to be around them anyway.

+1 IMHO anyone who would bring a dog in a shelter to sleep for the night is a moron.

[CrumbSnatcher]

+1 IMHO anyone who would bring a dog in a shelter to sleep for the night is a moron.what im reading is you're a really sweet guy, and you're worried about the dogs getting a good nights sleep on the hardwood floor, or some hiker stepping on the dogs foot, or how everytime someone gets up to pee it wakes up the dog, taking away some good sleep. then i agree with you, the dogs are happier and more comfortable in the tent on the nice soft grass, away from all the noise.

[Spokes]

what im reading is you're a really sweet guy, and you're worried about the dogs getting a good nights sleep on the hardwood floor, or some hiker stepping on the dogs foot, or how everytime someone gets up to pee it wakes up the dog, taking away some good sleep. then i agree with you, the dogs are happier and more comfortable in the tent on the nice soft grass, away from all the noise.

The problem with taking a dog on a thru hike is they don't get a say in the matter. Its the sole prerogative of the human.

I say if you bring a dog into a shelter to spend the night your a moron.

[CrumbSnatcher]

The problem with taking a dog on a thru hike is they don't get a say in the matter. Its the sole prerogative of the human.then i was right ,you do like dogs thats cool:cool:

[Spokes]

Love dogs just hate seeing moronic owners bringing them on the trail for a thru hike and allowing them in shelters for the night. I also hate obnoxious drunks and peanut brittle.

[CrumbSnatcher]

gotta hike the dogs hike, not keep up with the crowd. my dog was my crowd, and we were perfectly happy by ourselfs

[Spokes]

Dog whisperer....... I like that.

[ChinMusic]

The problem with taking a dog on a thru hike is they don't get a say in the matter. Its the sole prerogative of the human.


If you own a dog and spend a lot of time with them you know what they like and what they don't. I can guarantee you if mine could talk he would be asking when we could hit the woods again. He LOVES our section hikes. I "know" it. I also know he doesn't like baths or taking his worm pill.


I say if you bring a dog into a shelter to spend the night your a moron.

Agree, with minor exceptions. Anyone taking a dog into a shelter during thru season is indeed a moron, an inconsiderate moron.

[Spokes]

Great points Chin

[CrumbSnatcher]

Agree, with minor exceptions. Anyone taking a dog into a shelter during thru season is indeed a moron, an inconsiderate moron.why the exception, are you saying no place for the dog at all during thruhiker season, or if more hikers are coming they should get the space?
what if its thruhiker season and the shelter is empty or you're with a small group of hikers that you been hiking with that like your dog and says its ok? and plenty of room too boot? i am guilty of having my dog in shelters during thruhiker season, but always gave up the space if needed or well ahead of time if a hiker rolled in and said more are coming. sucks to be called a moron without even getting to know me first. we were probably in the shelter from me being lazy or it was raining! more hikers coming just gave me a good reason to set up the tent :-)

[ChinMusic]

why the exception, are you saying no place for the dog at all during thruhiker season, or if more hikers are coming they should get the space?
what if its thruhiker season and the shelter is empty or you're with a small group of hikers that you been hiking with that like your dog and says its ok? and plenty of room too boot? i am guilty of having my dog in shelters during thruhiker season, but always gave up the space if needed or well ahead of time if a hiker rolled in and said more are coming. sucks to be called a moron without even getting to know me first. we were probably in the shelter from me being lazy or it was raining! more hikers coming just gave me a good reason to set up the tent :-)

During thru season it is almost a guarantee that someone will be showing up later. I tent 100% of the time with my dog.

Even in off-season with my dog, when I think our group will be the only ones there, I'm worried folks will be coming later. Even for a social trip where the group decides to use the shelter, I will often set up my tent anyways, just in case others come later. My group is 100% fine with my dog, been hiking with him for years, but I cannot assume those that come later will feel the same way.

If someone shows up late, I don't even ask if they are OK with the dog in a shelter. I don't want to put them on the spot of having to answer. We just move to our tent.

In addition, I have a dog that does not shed. CSI would have a hard time knowing I own a dog. There are like zero pet hairs in my car or home. If my dog were the shedding type I would never, ever, allow him in a shelter. Folks DO NOT want your dog's hair on their stuff. That includes ME.

[CrumbSnatcher]

During thru season it is almost a guarantee that someone will be showing up later. I tent 100% of the time with my dog.

Even in off-season with my dog, when I think our group will be the only ones there, I'm worried folks will be coming later. Even for a social trip where the group decides to use the shelter, I will often set up my tent anyways, just in case others come later. My group is 100% fine with my dog, been hiking with him for years, but I cannot assume those that come later will feel the same way.

If someone shows up late, I don't even ask if they are OK with the dog in a shelter. I don't want to put them on the spot of having to answer. We just move to our tent.

In addition, I have a dog that does not shed. CSI would have a hard time knowing I own a dog. There are like zero pet hairs in my car or home. If my dog were the shedding type I would never, ever, allow him in a shelter. Folks DO NOT want your dog's hair on their stuff. That includes ME. its not a guarantee that someone will always show up during thruhiker season, in georgia yeah alot farther north not so much, im not disagreeing with you, pretty much on the same level. just cause im saying i,ve had my dog in shelters,doesn't mean all the time. 99% of the time my dog would lay in the grass while i cooked and set up the tent. if she crashed in the shelter i would still put up the tent for later or just because someone else might show up. usually if my dog made her way to the shelter,its cause one of our hiker friends called her over. and let her rest on thier bag or pad, then she would come back over for dinner. i was always prepared to tent if needed, or offer my tent up to others when they didn't want to wake the dog up. i never asked if the dog was ok in the shelter i like you, just moved out. and its usually not hard to know who's coming between zig-zagging hikers all day or week, but faster hikers showing up at the shelter, will let you know who they passed and who's coming. in 7 years hiking with my dog,we only upset one hiker and had nothing to do with shelters, she stepped in a water source up stream for a drink, i corrected her from then on she drank down stream from everyone else. my dog had well over7,000 miles on the AT, so i think IMO we knew how to roll with the punches and keep everyone happy. glad i owned a dog who didn't shed either :-)

[Don H]

SInce this is in the Straight Forward section and the OP asked if there is a tactful way to deal with dog owners in shelters maybe we can get back on topic, if there's any thing left to cover that is. IMO the best thing for the OP to do is to plan on staying in a tent thus avoiding any health problems associated with dogs.

[CrumbSnatcher]

SInce this is in the Straight Forward section and the OP asked if there is a tactful way to deal with dog owners in shelters maybe we can get back on topic, if there's any thing left to cover that is. IMO the best thing for the OP to do is to plan on staying in a tent thus avoiding any health problems associated with dogs.good idea to bring some sort of shelter no matter what, never rely on shelter space.

[prain4u]

I've been a dog owner for almost all of my 50 years of living. We currently have a large (5 year-old) chocolate lab. The members of my household donate to humane societies. We have friends involved in dog "rescue" groups etc. So, let me make it clear, I am not a dog hater.

That being said...

I believe that it is VERY inconsiderate to other hikers--and not "fair" to the dog--to bring a dog into a shelter. (I also believe that dogs should be on a leash at all times during the hike and in while shelter/camp areas).

The problem isn't generally the dog--it is the inconsiderate dog owner. I often choose to hike in parks and on trails where dogs are 100% prohibited (and where such rules are strictly enforced) primarily because many people who hike with dogs behave like inconsiderate jerks. They tend to believe that their "right" to hike and camp with their (usually unleashed) dog far outweighs the rights of everyone else.

Some people are truly allergic to dogs. Sadly, THEY are the ones who are expected to camp in tents in all sorts of weather--just because some inconsiderate individuals insist that their dogs have a right to be in the shelters.

Even the BEST BEHAVED dog--can have an "off day" and can growl at people and bite people. Yet, ironically, it is the OTHER FOLKS on the trail who are expected to take the risk of being bitten or attacked (or take the risk of having their dinner snatched by a bold dog)--all because some hikers believe that they have a right to hike and camp with an unleashed dog. (These same morons just love to say: "My dog never bites and would never bother anybody").

In a shelter, a dog's nails can puncture other people's inflatable sleeping pads. Dirty/wet dogs (especially ones with sharp nails) can ruin or soil other hikers' sleeping gear and other items. OTHER HIKERS are expected to stand by and honor the rights of the dog and the dog owner--while their own gear is damaged. How fair is that?

At least 40% of the AT has rules in place which require dogs to be on a leash. Some additional portions of the trail prohibit dogs altogether. Yet, you will find that many dog owners think that they (and their precious dogs) should not be expected to follow such unrealistic and cruel rules. They believe that they have their "rights" and not even duly enacted laws should interfere with those rights.

Should a person (who is allergic to dogs) be able to stay in shelters and not have to deal with dog problems? Theoretically, the answer is a resounding "Yes!" The existing laws and the current park rules would tend to support that belief (especially along nearly half of the AT). Furthermore, basic common courtesy (and the suggested trail "etiquette" for hiking with dogs on the AT) would (theoretically) cover you on the remainder of the trail.

HOWEVER, many inconsiderate dog owners (and their equally inconsiderate friends/supporters) would beg to differ such a philosophy. Thus, many dog owners will continue to do whatever they darn well please--and YOU will be the one pitching a tent in all sorts of nasty weather (while the inconsiderate dog owners can simply walk up to nearly any shelter and promptly claim a nice dry place to stay with their precious pooch!)`

Ain't life grand!

[Spokes]

That's one of the best posts I've ever read. Thanks prain4u!

[Camping Dave]

My NOBO hike is planned for mid March. My hiking buddy has an allergy to pet hair and is concerned about folks keeping their dogs in the shelter. How can this be handled tactfully?

Say please, explain the situation nicely, say please again ... but be prepared to move on down the trail if that doesn't work.

People with dogs on the trail are either 1) very considerate and keep their dogs under control, or 2) display an amazing callousness toward other trail and shelter users. They really just don't care. (Kind of like dog owners on WB who hijack threads in the STRAIGHT FORWARD forum; after all, rules are for the dogless.)

Really though, your buddy should accept responsibility for his/her own comfortable shelter. Good luck and have fun!

[ChinMusic]

Say please, explain the situation nicely, say please again ... but be prepared to move on down the trail if that doesn't work.

People with dogs on the trail are either 1) very considerate and keep their dogs under control, or 2) display an amazing callousness toward other trail and shelter users.
Yeppers. As I posted before. If they are inconsiderate enough to be in the shelter with their dog during peak season, words probably won't mean much. Assume category #2.


(Kind of like dog owners on WB who hijack threads in the STRAIGHT FORWARD forum; after all, rules are for the dogless.)


And you didn't.........?

Really though, your buddy should accept responsibility for his/her own comfortable shelter. Good luck and have fun!

Agree 100%

[Lemni Skate]

Good dog owners = good people. They will be considerate of others whether they have a dog or not.
Bad dog owners = bad people. They will claim that they (and their dogs) have rights and then infringe on everyone else's.

don't sleep in shelters, just too much going on for the way I sleep, but if I see a dog sleeping in a shelter I assume it is abused or neglected in some way by its owner.

[Sassafras Lass]

Since your a medical expert i guess...

No need to be snide, Owl's just being helpful.

If you want to really get into it, there are a handful of different causes:

1) Allergic to the natural dust and dander that gets caught up in the coat
2) Allergic to the proteins in the saliva
3) Allergic to the proteins in the urine

Could be any of those, and a thorough blood panel and testing should show which it is.

[ChinMusic]

....but if I see a dog sleeping in a shelter I assume it is abused or neglected in some way by its owner.

I just assume they beat their significant other......

[CrumbSnatcher]

My NOBO hike is planned for mid March. My hiking buddy has an allergy to pet hair and is concerned about folks keeping their dogs in the shelter. How can this be handled tactfully?


if the ATC says its ok for a dog to be in a shelter if theres rooms available
or the shelters empty and or no one cares that the dogs in the shelter in the first place
and you move, if more hikers are coming & or the space is needed, ALWAYS being considerate, then there is no problem!!!
you mean to tell me even if the shelters completly empty and no one else shows up, not even then should a dog go in the shelter? thats not what the ATC says, so i will not take advice from you all. i stayed in a shelter with my dog a dozen times or so over the years 98-04(9,000+ miles) and always gave it up when,if or before it was needed,ALWAYS doing the right thing, and i get called a bunch of names on WB by a bunch of internet tough guys who don't even know me at all. calling me a moron,inconsiderate and much more, telling me im out of line
lady of the woods, i am sorry for hijacking the thread and i hope you have a great hike!

[Chaco Taco]

I love to see dogs on the trail but whats even better is good dog owners. MOST of the time, I see owners taking the high road and not even asking about dogs in shelters and just setting up their tents. As for the OP'S point. Its something you will have to get used to. PLan to tent. If the weather is really really bad and you want to shelter it and their is a dog, just be polite and 9 times out of 10, you will get politeness in return. Now, there is always the one person that will just be a d*** about. A lot of the time, someone else may beat you to it and ask the owner to not let their dog sleep in the shelter. Just be nice to each other about it, that goes for dog owners as well

[flemdawg1]

just bring a tent, you wont find too many dogs sleeping in shelters unless you're with a pack that has dogs you'll keep running into night after night. and for the few nights you do run into an "inconsiderate "dog owner w/ dog in shelter, those nights you tent.

this is true. I've done around 70 nights sectioning the trail in all seasons and have only seen dogs at the shelter twice. Both times the dogs slept outside. Only around 10% of hikers bring dogs, 95% of those are dayhikers. And most hikers with dogs are considerate enough to avoid shelters altogether. Its a rare enough occurance that I would tell my buddy not to worry about it. And if a true jerk of a dog owner bring his pet into the shelter, your friend should have a tent "just in case" anyway, (for a multitude of reasons besides dogs).

[kanga]

You will soon find that the hikers that sleep in shelters are neither interested in you or their dogs comfort. Probably wouldn't want to be around them anyway.

there. fixed it for you.

[kanga]

Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.
okay, what does this have to do with the price of tea in china? for pete's sake, it's your car. if you can't say no to a dog in your car, then that is YOUR problem and ONLY YOUR problem. jeez. take some responsibility for yourself in life! and dog owners can take a page from your book and just say, "if you don't like dogs, STAY HOME, because mine will be out there, whether you have a problem with it or not."

[ChinMusic]

okay, what does this have to do with the price of tea in china? for pete's sake, it's your car. if you can't say no to a dog in your car, then that is YOUR problem and ONLY YOUR problem. jeez. take some responsibility for yourself in life! and dog owners can take a page from your book and just say, "if you don't like dogs, STAY HOME, because mine will be out there, whether you have a problem with it or not."

awesome......

[Chaco Taco]

I can't wait til we get out of the place we live in now and to a dog friendly space. I always get jealous when I see people out with dogs. We have a park close by called Bear Brook, down in Hooksett, NH and its nice to go see some of the dogs in the area. I think every one is ready for a big snow, especially the trail dogs!

[CrumbSnatcher]

if the ATC says its ok for a dog to be in a shelter if theres rooms available
or the shelters empty and or no one cares that the dogs in the shelter in the first place
and you move, if more hikers are coming & or the space is needed, ALWAYS being considerate, then there is no problem!!!
you mean to tell me even if the shelters completly empty and no one else shows up, not even then should a dog go in the shelter? thats not what the ATC says, so i will not take advice from you all. i stayed in a shelter with my dog a dozen times or so over the years 98-04(9,000+ miles) and always gave it up when,if or before it was needed,ALWAYS doing the right thing, and i get called a bunch of names on WB by a bunch of internet tough guys who don't even know me at all. calling me a moron,inconsiderate and much more, telling me im out of line
lady of the woods, i am sorry for hijacking the thread and i hope you have a great hike!i don't think its just thruhikers that feel intitled, what makes all of you feel like you deserve a shelter spot?
maybe a few bucks to WB, maybe a ATC membership?, did you pickup a little trash along the way and felt special, how about some serious trail work of any kind, besides trying to police the AT from the internet. lets start with some manners and move forward. i wear a external frame pack too, and use a water filter, must be out of my mind.

[Blissful]

Well besides dog hair they'll be mouse hair, racoon hair, porcupine hair and other "hairs" in the shelters. Your friend needs to tent only

[kanga]

i don't think its just thruhikers that feel intitled, what makes all of you feel like you deserve a shelter spot?
maybe a few bucks to WB, maybe a ATC membership?, did you pickup a little trash along the way and felt special, how about some serious trail work of any kind, besides trying to police the AT from the internet. lets start with some manners and move forward. i wear a external frame pack too, and use a water filter, must be out of my mind.

preach it brother!!

[Wise Old Owl]

Since your a medical expert i guess..., there are people that are allergic to animal dandruff as well and not just their saliva. My sister can just sit in a house with an animal in it for awhile and will have her allergies start going crazy. You don't have to touch them.

After years of "hanging out" on Amatuer Radio with a Dr in this feild - Dander is over rated! you are talking about skin cells - still gets back to the saliva - Its like trying to be allegic to human dust. (Some folk are) Ever noticed there is more dust in the bedroom, yea 8 hours?


Why should the hiker allergic to dogs have to stay in a tent. If you are hiking with a dog you should be considerate of others. This includes on the trail and at shelter sites. I have 4 dogs and leave them at home when I am hiking. On my 2010 thru hike I was awakened by a dog at the Overmountain shelter because an inconsiderate owner came in late with his dog and let the dog sleep on my sleeping bag. You are missing something in your personal walk in life..... Please consider that one or more of your dogs would love to go on a walk with you. An overnight would be pure joy! Maybe your post is simplistic (you simplified) - take your dogs and hike anywhere!


I'd apply rude, crude, and just inconsiderate jerk(s) to those hikers who set their tent up in a shelter, with or without their dog(s).
Ok SW - what is the harm in asking politly "hey folks - I would like to stay tonight in the shelter.... Would you do me a favor? is there any objections for me and my dog?" and respect the answer? - its just a different take... Not personal. I realize there are jerks out there.. You are smart enough to find a way to overcome this... When you find something that works lets PM.


From the ATC website concerning dogs on the trail: "Take special measures at shelters. Keep your dog leashed in the shelter area, and ask permission of other hikers before allowing your dog in a shelter. Be prepared to "tent out" when a shelter is crowded, and on rainy days."

So even if dog owners followed the ATC guidelines and asked you if it was OK for their dog to stay in the shelter you can't do anything about the dog that was in there the night before. Then you have the problem of mice which might also cause an allergic reaction.

Do yourself a favor and stay in a tent. You won't have to worry about sleeping in a dirty crowded shelter with snoring, stinking hikers that come in late or leave before dawn. The only shelters I stayed in on my thru-hike were in the Smokys where it's required. You can usually tent near a shelter if you want company or somewhere along the trail if you want privacy. You can't plan on always staying in shelters since they might be full so you'll need to carry a tent anyway. You're not missing anything by staying out of the shelters.
So Don when you get pulled over do you quote rules to the officer? .... I know you a little here on WB.... You are a great guy.. How would we change our approch? Yea Mice do carry life threatening disease. Personally I know I am going to shoot myself with this statement - but Don you have good advice.... what would be your second guess? - there's no right answer... but its a good topic for a new thread. (I had a better answer but age kicked in):-?


Yea, but life is SO much easier when you can. Especially if it happens to rain.Cool Ya both now it IS the comradely of being in the shelter... ENGAGE


Forgive me if I sound stupid or insensitive...aren't the woods full of animals with hair/fur? Will this cause your friend problems or is it only "pet hair"? :) Before my time there were enough disease that allergies were not a focus, now folk are allergic to trees, hike and don't know it. Ya nailed it. You go!


Last week someone really got my goat and I appreciate what he had to offer.... folks we are all here to help each other with better advice from the source. I can understand now that "Backpacker" is a Debby downer of simplistic information and what we are doing is jumping in and raising the bar.... It is my personal hope when you answer someone's post you are thinking " Yea I got this!" Without question I have made some mistakes here.... but as each month goes by I hope I too am learning something.... I am really into the each and every one of you that added good information here.

[rocketsocks]

Well,my take is most definitely biased,I love dogs,all dogs,I guess you could say I'm a dog lover.I cannot remember a time in my life that we did not have a dog as part of the family,because there wasn't one.If a dog licked my face while I was sleeping,I would find that funny,If a dog ran over my sleeping bag with muddy feet,I would say,well I guess I'm doing laundry tomorrow.Like anything in life......dogs happen.Thank you to the creator for making a dog one of man's best friends.

[Don H]

WOO, I quoted the rule to show those that don't know what the rule is.
When I get pulled over (which is rare, it's been years) I don't quote the rules (code/law) I just show my badge and hope for a little professional courtesy.

[Don H]

WOO, Not sure I understand your question about what would be my second guess.
My best advice is to avoid the situation by tenting.
What if the OP's friend was allergic to down?

[rocketsocks]

WOO, Not sure I understand your question about what would be my second guess.
My best advice is to avoid the situation by tenting.
What if the OP's friend was allergic to down?Fox in the hen house:D

[rocketsocks]

Sorry, post #76 was for post #74.

[stonedflea]

my thing with the OP is that they are expecting dog owners to be responsible for their friend's health issues. be responsible for yourself and bring your own tent. there will be nothing keeping you from asking politely if someone with a dog would mind moving to a tent, but there will be nothing that says that they will have to, either.

a few days into my hike this year, i arrived at a shelter about the time a big thunderstorm was about to hit. i was just about to set my tent up and a guy hollered at me and told me to basically quit being silly and to get into the shelter. WITH MY DOG. no one cared. swayze knew the routine. we'd get to camp, take our packs off, and then she'd sit on her sleeping pad and wait until i'd fixed her supper. she didn't walk around the shelter. she didn't sleep on people's sleeping bags. she wasn't allowed to beg for food. i don't really see how this is abuse at all?

and there's no telling what kinds of animals happen to frequent the shelters when there aren't hikers there. bears have been known to wander into shelters. mice LIVE in the shelters. etc. etc. i'd much rather cuddle up next to a dog than a family of rats.

most shelters have brooms that you could sweep with if you're super worried about it.

yes, i have seen bad dog owners let their dogs run wildly through camp. but just because a dog sleeps in a shelter doesn't mean that the owner is inconsiderate or irresponsible. the fact that y'all are generalizing every dog owner is rather ridiculous.

[kanga]

Can I get an AMEN! I love responsible dog owners that will stand up for themselves and their furbabies!

[rocketsocks]

Amen,didn't want leave hangin' there.

[kanga]

hahaha! thanks!

[rocketsocks]

Any time my brother.:)

[kanga]

i'sa sistah! ; P

[shelterbuilder]

my thing with the OP is that they are expecting dog owners to be responsible for their friend's health issues. be responsible for yourself and bring your own tent. there will be nothing keeping you from asking politely if someone with a dog would mind moving to a tent, but there will be nothing that says that they will have to, either.

a few days into my hike this year, i arrived at a shelter about the time a big thunderstorm was about to hit. i was just about to set my tent up and a guy hollered at me and told me to basically quit being silly and to get into the shelter. WITH MY DOG. no one cared. swayze knew the routine. we'd get to camp, take our packs off, and then she'd sit on her sleeping pad and wait until i'd fixed her supper. she didn't walk around the shelter. she didn't sleep on people's sleeping bags. she wasn't allowed to beg for food. i don't really see how this is abuse at all?

and there's no telling what kinds of animals happen to frequent the shelters when there aren't hikers there. bears have been known to wander into shelters. mice LIVE in the shelters. etc. etc. i'd much rather cuddle up next to a dog than a family of rats.

most shelters have brooms that you could sweep with if you're super worried about it.

yes, i have seen bad dog owners let their dogs run wildly through camp. but just because a dog sleeps in a shelter doesn't mean that the owner is inconsiderate or irresponsible. the fact that y'all are generalizing every dog owner is rather ridiculous.

Years ago, when I hiked with my first Siberian Husky, I would take him into the shelters with me (yes, we had a HUGE tarp, so that if the shelter was full, we'd be okay). Bandit was NEVER allowed to beg, he was NEVER allowed to roam around the shelter, and he was NEVER allowed to jump up on others (or their equipment). 24-7 that dog was either tethered to me or to a tree that was far enough away from the shelter that he could get in, but only as far as MY stuff (on the one end). Granted, huskies shed, and yes, there was a bit of fur that had to be swept out in the morning, but I always swept out the shelter before I left anyway. No one ever asked us to leave the shelter, but if they had, it would have been no big deal.

Fast-forward 25 years, and now we have lots of people out there (some who even own dogs!) who don't seem to give a rat's @$$ about being considerate of other people's needs...it's ALL about them! (If I wanted to hijack this thread, I'd suggest replacing the word "dog" with the term "Boy Scouts", and see where THAT would take us!) But - to keep us on topic, since there seems to be SO MUCH civility and common decency that's been lost over the last few years, I would suggest that, if asking nicely won't work, you'd better be prepared to tent or tarp to get away from the situation...heck, it might REALLY be the owner that you're allergic to in the first place!;)

[Don H]

HEY, my Scouts are just as well behaved as your dog ;)

[CrumbSnatcher]

HEY, my Scouts are just as well behaved as your dog ;)on my 1999 thruhike, troop#580 Georgia---Lilburn GA. i meet this group out on the trail, i was able to gain thier respect on how well my dog was well behaved and how well i took care of her, tried my best to inspire the boys with stories of the trail and had a few laughs. when it was time to go,they ask me if i would carry thier troop pin with me to maine. not only was it my privilege to do so! i wore it on my backpack so everyone could see it. i was an honorary trooper :-) i sent it back to them after our trek with a pitcure from baxter peak. i was told they used my story about hiking with a dog and shared it, along with what thruhiking was all about with all the troops at a gathering of all the GA. chapters. great bunch of kids, bet they turned out to be good young men

[darkage]

My NOBO hike is planned for mid March. My hiking buddy has an allergy to pet hair and is concerned about folks keeping their dogs in the shelter. How can this be handled tactfully?

Don't use shelters, split a decent sized tent, one carry's the fabric, other can carry the poles ... stop for dinner at shelter's and socialize, then hike on a mile or two and camp ... nice, quiet .. no snoring and better sleep. =)

[rocketsocks]

Ok ,time to pony up.Me and mine we sleep in a tent,cause that's what we/I like.If asked to move on or away or whatever,I would be glad to accommodate when I can,but "you gotta ask me" nice.That's right I can give as good as I get.But if you roll in from the trail and start with demanding and pointing fingers at my dog,and generally being a stick,your gonna get stuck.Now all that said most of what's going on here,on this thread,does not happen out on the trail.Every body is pretty damn nice.But every once and a while........Whoop there it is.

[rocketsocks]

on my 1999 thruhike, troop#580 Georgia---Lilburn GA. i meet this group out on the trail, i was able to gain thier respect on how well my dog was well behaved and how well i took care of her, tried my best to inspire the boys with stories of the trail and had a few laughs. when it was time to go,they ask me if i would carry thier troop pin with me to maine. not only was it my privilege to do so! i wore it on my backpack so everyone could see it. i was an honorary trooper :-) i sent it back to them after our trek with a pitcure from baxter peak. i was told they used my story about hiking with a dog and shared it, along with what thruhiking was all about with all the troops at a gathering of all the GA. chapters. great bunch of kids, bet they turned out to be good young menGood story Crumb Snatch,a real feel good moment with goose bumps and every thing was had albeit short.A+:)

[Ladyofthewoods]

I cannot believe how far this thread has gone astray. I replied to a few of the responses (and I am the OP) on Post #11 as to how I would proceed, if anyone wants to go back and read...probably not. This is now Post #89! The question was posted in the straightforward question forum area. I just wanted a straightforward answer. I got it. I also received a lot of snide remarks. I thought WB was a forum for folks to learn more about the trail, acquaint themselves with the AT community in general, and generally learn idea's regarding gear, etc. I'm not sure I'll be asking any more questions. It's not that I'm so thin-skinned. It's simply that life has enough controversy 'out there' without courting it on-line, as well. Sorry I asked.

[kayak karl]

I cannot believe how far this thread has gone astray. I replied to a few of the responses (and I am the OP) on Post #11 as to how I would proceed, if anyone wants to go back and read...probably not. This is now Post #89! The question was posted in the straightforward question forum area. I just wanted a straightforward answer. I got it. I also received a lot of snide remarks. I thought WB was a forum for folks to learn more about the trail, acquaint themselves with the AT community in general, and generally learn idea's regarding gear, etc. I'm not sure I'll be asking any more questions. It's not that I'm so thin-skinned. It's simply that life has enough controversy 'out there' without courting it on-line, as well. Sorry I asked.:welcome..................

[4eyedbuzzard]

I cannot believe how far this thread has gone astray. I replied to a few of the responses (and I am the OP) on Post #11 as to how I would proceed, if anyone wants to go back and read...probably not. This is now Post #89! The question was posted in the straightforward question forum area. I just wanted a straightforward answer. I got it. I also received a lot of snide remarks. I thought WB was a forum for folks to learn more about the trail, acquaint themselves with the AT community in general, and generally learn idea's regarding gear, etc. I'm not sure I'll be asking any more questions. It's not that I'm so thin-skinned. It's simply that life has enough controversy 'out there' without courting it on-line, as well. Sorry I asked.I haven't read the whole thread. But this is a very active "community" and even in the straight forward section, from experience, there will always be a few questionable comments. It's hard for mods to keep up I might add. Sometimes we members don't police ourselves as much as we should. That said, dogs on the trail and in shelters are a contentious issue. The bottom line is that there will be dogs / dog hair / dander in shelters, either when you are there or the day before.

[Gaiter]

Meh, don't worry about the thread drift, dogs are a touchy subject because of bad owners giving dogs bad reps, don't let the snide remarks stop you from asking questions: the way i look at this site is there is a lot of 'information' you just got pick through everything to find actual valid 'information' so take no offense to the cyber hikers and those that are too bitter, besides the ignore feature works quite well on here!

and my answer to the original question: if your friend is extremely allergic then don't stay in shelters, tent, hammock what ever makes you happy, but stay somewhere that your friend can control the environment of, because its a public trail, there is no controlling what actually happens in shelters, many experienced hikers who have been hiking for a while don't even bother with shelters any more, other than occasionally using the nearby picnic table... if there is no other option but to stay in a shelter, i suggest carrying a large ground cloth, piece of plastic or tyvek or something of that nature to lay down on the shelter floor, and lay it down before he puts any of his belongings in there (and mark which side faces down and up so he isn't sleeping on the exposed side the next night)...

[Wise Old Owl]

there are people that are allergic to animal dandruff as well and not just their saliva. My sister can just sit in a house with an animal in it for awhile and will have her allergies start going crazy. You don't have to touch them.

Over time - (months) the saliva particals become dried out and airborne quality vacume and cleaning will reduce that so would steam cleaning occationally.


Is your hiking buddy allergic to mice? They are much more common in shelters than dogs.

Very strange post - the shelter could be overrun with mice and because its not enclosed - how on earth would anyone have a reaction? The real danger here is urine and poop mice have no control of their bladders and urinate on everything they touch... (walk in turn off the lights turn on the BLACKLIGHT and watch your mouth drop) its a little like CSI - dried urine glows. The poop dries out and becomes airborne the pathogens are HANTA VIRUS (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hantavirus)


My daughter has a severe allergy to peanuts. There is no way she could sleep on the floor at Texas Roadhouse, even after a good clean-up.

Good news - new breakthroughs in medicine and study's suggest for milk allergies are cookies with ever small doses of milk and building up immunity over a year. Peanuts will be the next leap. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/Allergies/cookies-kids-beat-milk-allergy/story?id=13186500#.TxhGuoH2JOM


Leave the dog at home. I gave a hiker a ride north on I 81 a few years ago. I didn't know he had a dog until after I stopped. Dog was hiding behind the guardrail.With dog in back of subaru ,hiker in front with me we drove north for about 3 hours. When I said goodbye and wish them well And headed east for home I found that both of them had been covered with fleas. I was not a very happy person. I don'think he ran out of money from buying flea collars or dip. My personal opinion is, leave the dogs at home they will love you for it.May God Bless.

Really good post bubblegum - Mice run in shelters - Fleas love Mice - your dog must be protected & Fleas transmit diseases. Dogs without protection will infest shelter to shelter!




If you want to really get into it, there are a handful of different causes:
1) Allergic to the natural dust and dander that gets caught up in the coat
2) Allergic to the proteins in the saliva
3) Allergic to the proteins in the urine

Could be any of those, and a thorough blood panel and testing should show which it is. Cool Pick up _ I forgot urine and thank you.


WOO, I quoted the rule to show those that don't know what the rule is.
When I get pulled over (which is rare, it's been years) I don't quote the rules (code/law) I just show my badge and hope for a little professional courtesy. You have my apology!


I cannot believe how far this thread has gone astray. I replied to a few of the responses (and I am the OP) on Post #11 as to how I would proceed, if anyone wants to go back and read...probably not. This is now Post #89! The question was posted in the straightforward question forum area. I just wanted a straightforward answer. I got it. I also received a lot of snide remarks. I thought WB was a forum for folks to learn more about the trail, acquaint themselves with the AT community in general, and generally learn idea's regarding gear, etc. I'm not sure I'll be asking any more questions. It's not that I'm so thin-skinned. It's simply that life has enough controversy 'out there' without courting it on-line, as well. Sorry I asked. We are all focused on a animal love hate relationship here - it's the internet - it would be more intense on other websites. Glad you asked the question - don't get boggled by the minutia.

[xokie]

So, does all this apply to ANY animal I choose to hike with?

[ChinMusic]

So, does all this apply to ANY animal I choose to hike with?

No. Fish are OK.

[bamboo bob]

I had a dog steal my bagel once and another wet dog run all over my gear but I also met a hiker named Otto who had a dog named Raven. They were great to see the way they interacted. Otto made sure Raven didn't get into peoples face or maybe Raven was just well trained. Otto and Raven made me forget the two jerks.

I still don't want to sleep with a wet dog.

[Slo-go'en]

So, does all this apply to ANY animal I choose to hike with?

You can't bring pack animals on the AT, so that eliminates most of what could potentually travel the route like goats, horses, ponies, and donkeys. Which brings up an interesting question. If you put a pack on your dog, does it become a pack animal and is therefore banned from the AT?

[rocketsocks]

Legally,I think dogs are classified as "Work Dogs" By the KCA but I don't speak about legalities any more.;)want some ice cream?:D3...2...1

[Don H]

There's Work Dogs and then there's Service Dogs. Service Dogs provide assistance to a disabled person.
More info here: http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm
(http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm)

[shelterbuilder]

...If you put a pack on your dog, does it become a pack animal and is therefore banned from the AT?

No more than putting a pack on YOUR back gets YOU banned from the AT for being a "pack animal".:D

Now, if you used the dog to haul or drag a load BEHIND it, then you begin to cross over the line....

[Slo-go'en]

No more than putting a pack on YOUR back gets YOU banned from the AT for being a "pack animal".:D

Having lugged a few 50 pound bags of wood chips up the side of a mountian for the privy, I belive I have been a "pack animal" :D

[seasparrow]

Dog gone it!

[shelterbuilder]

Having lugged a few 50 pound bags of wood chips up the side of a mountian for the privy, I belive I have been a "pack animal" :D

Yep, me, too (although down here, we drive them in as far as possible...but at some point, ya gotta carry 'em). We (I mean, I) usually take in 12 to 15 bags at a time, so, by the end of the day, you DO feel a bit like a mule....