View Full Version : Stove advice Please!
I have read over a couple of post the last few days on people saying that they never used a stove and ended up sending it back home after awhile. So that's got me thinking do I really need a stove or not?? I mean I know when I do weekends by myself I hardly ever need it, I'm usually to tired at the end of the day to bother with it. The only time I really use it is in the mornings for coffee.
For the last year I have been using the MSR simmerlite which I like a lot, but before that I would use a Pepsi can stove just boil my water which works really well.
So finally here is my question, Do I really need a stove? Is it worth carrying and only using a few times?
And if so, which one Simmer lite or Pepsi can?
Thanks
Do I really need a stove? Is it worth carrying and only using a few times?
And if so, which one Simmer lite or Pepsi can?I've talked to _lots_ of thru's, over so many years that contemporary fads average out. Very, very few go very far without stoves. And yes, I've known several who only used it in the morning for coffee, others for that plus an occasional cup of soup/broth at night. The less you use it, the more a simple alcohol stove makes sense.
Camping Dave
01-16-2012, 09:43
Need? Prob'ly not. Want? Yeah, of course. You want and use it now on your weekend hike. No reason to believe you'll want it or use it less on a longer hike. You alky stove, fuel, and small cookpot weight, oh, I'd guess less than 8 ounces. If you're concerned about that much weight trim the straps on your pack, or carry 1/2 pint less water between waterholes.
Try going for a week at home without drinking or eating anything hot, or warmed up even. Don't use a stove, microwave or any cooking device. See how that suits you and you'll answer your own question.
garlic08
01-16-2012, 09:51
I just saw a survey somewhere (I think it was on Gossamer Gear's website) that showed that about 3% of respondents did not carry a stove. It's hardly a fad, more like a very small niche. In my experience on my (stoveless) AT thru, of the dozens of hikers I talked to about cooking a surprising number, maybe half a dozen, did not cook. I didn't expect to meet any at all. (Maybe hikers who don't carry stoves do not respond to surveys either?)
I starting going stoveless on the PCT in '04, mailing the stove ahead for a few hundred miles at a time until I found out I hike better without it. Since then, I hiked the CDT, AT, AZT, PNT, and many smaller hikes without it. It clearly is the better choice for me, or I wouldn't be hiking over 8000 miles without it. I think you need a rare combination of not being addicted to caffeine and not enjoying cooking or cleaning up to make it work. The big advantage for me is simply less fuss--no fuel resupply, so less fuss on town stops. And no cleanup, so less water, which makes dry camps more enjoyable and my dry camps have been my best camps--lonely ridges, summits, etc. Food resupply got easier, too, which is counter-intuitive but it works for me. Many will argue that it's not a weight savings due to water weight in food, and that's sometimes true, but only on the first day. On the last day before a resupply, the weight savings is noticeable.
The last stove I carried was a pepsi can stove, nearly negligible weight and it worked fine for boiling water once a day. If you use it more than that, the alcohol weight (less energy density than gas) gets too high. If you carry more than 10 oz of alcohol, I hear, you're better off with gas.
Good luck finding what works for you.
It's a spice of life issue. For most the act of cooking up a meal at the end of a day and enjoying hot food is one of the things about a long hike that they enjoy. On the flip side, with no stove you will not need to carry fuel or a pot to cook in nor will you need to clean them after your meal. You will trade the joy of hot food for about a pound of weight. On a thru-hike many people end up thinking of trail food as something you endure until you get to the next town so you can pig out on pizza and hamburgers. So if hot food is not much of a joy to you and you can stand a steady diet of cold tuna, spam, pop tarts and candy bars then forget the stove.
Sure you can go stoveless, lots of thru's do but I like carrying an achy. Nothing better to get you going on a chilly morning than a warm beverage or bowl of porridge.
Here's an option- If going NOBO, why not start stoveless (or vise versa) and put a stove in a mail drop or bounce box to Neels Gap. It's only 3 days away. Decide then what you want to do. Heck you can survive anything for 3 days right?
Rain Man
01-16-2012, 11:57
I've hiked with and without a stove, and with several kinds of stoves, including using a campfire or sharing/borrowing a stove within my hiking group. So, it varies. Not really a question we can answer for you. But you can eat pretty well without a stove, not just junk food. You can rehydrate dehydrated food as you hike (think beans and rice with summer sausage, or refried beans, or beans and corn and salsa burrito, the list goes on). Of course you can grill brats over a campfire for dinner or breakfast. There are all sorts of foil pouch meats and fish these days. With a little packet of mayo and relish and a tortilla and you have a decent burrito. Not to mention good ol' peanut butter and jelly. You can even have cold tea or coffee or just some drink mix.
Between the two stoves you ask about, personally I'd carry the Pepsi can stove, due to weight. When I go stoveless, I at least carry a metal cup so I could heat something over a fire in an emergency.
Rain:sunMan
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I tell ya, I'm really looking into carrying an Emberlit Ultra wood burner on my next long hike. Weighs in at 5 oz. Want to try using wood to save on alchy fuel.
Guess the only downside is a wood stove isn't practical for cooking morning meals since you'd have to wait for cool down and then ash disposal.
daddytwosticks
01-16-2012, 12:28
I need my morning coffee, period. I can get by with cold food the rest of the time in milder weather. For these times I use a titanium wing stove and Esbit fuel tabs. With some aluminum foil for a wind screen and a 600ml Snowpeak mug/pot, I'm all set. Minimum weight and volume. When I carry a 1 liter Poweraide bottle for my water, the mug/pot slips over the bottom making a really compact kitchen. :)
I tell ya, I'm really looking into carrying an Emberlit Ultra wood burner on my next long hike. Weighs in at 5 oz. Want to try using wood to save on alchy fuel.
Guess the only downside is a wood stove isn't practical for cooking morning meals since you'd have to wait for cool down and then ash disposal.
I never actually timed it but it doesn't take much time to burn out and cool down. It certainly wouldn't deter me from cooking in the morning. If you're just heating water you can use very small twigs which gives you a quick hot fire with one load. No need to feed larger sticks through the side. The small twigs burn down to a fine ash quickly. It's as fast to boil water in that mode as any alky stove I've tried...and I own many.
My only concern is cooking under a tarp in the rain (other thread), but I'm working on the spark arrestor thing. I have a couple of old cheapo tarps which I Plan on experimenting with prior to my AT hike this summer. I think you would like it.
Slo-go'en
01-16-2012, 13:10
It depends on the time of year. In the spring and fall, having a hot meal or drink is very nice. In the middle of the summer, it is a lot easier to go without hot food. Although you don't really save weight not having a stove as no cook food generally tends to weigh more than cooked foods (which are usually pasta based).
Of course, those of you addicted to coffee have no choice...
I'm not addicted! I can quit drinking coffee anytime. Well maybe next year.
It depends on the time of year. In the spring and fall, having a hot meal or drink is very nice. In the middle of the summer, it is a lot easier to go without hot food. Although you don't really save weight not having a stove as no cook food generally tends to weigh more than cooked foods (which are usually pasta based).
Of course, those of you addicted to coffee have no choice...
SCRUB HIKER
01-16-2012, 15:31
I just saw a survey somewhere (I think it was on Gossamer Gear's website) that showed that about 3% of respondents did not carry a stove. It's hardly a fad, more like a very small niche. In my experience on my (stoveless) AT thru, of the dozens of hikers I talked to about cooking a surprising number, maybe half a dozen, did not cook. I didn't expect to meet any at all. (Maybe hikers who don't carry stoves do not respond to surveys either?)
I starting going stoveless on the PCT in '04, mailing the stove ahead for a few hundred miles at a time until I found out I hike better without it. Since then, I hiked the CDT, AT, AZT, PNT, and many smaller hikes without it. It clearly is the better choice for me, or I wouldn't be hiking over 8000 miles without it. I think you need a rare combination of not being addicted to caffeine and not enjoying cooking or cleaning up to make it work. The big advantage for me is simply less fuss--no fuel resupply, so less fuss on town stops. And no cleanup, so less water, which makes dry camps more enjoyable and my dry camps have been my best camps--lonely ridges, summits, etc. Food resupply got easier, too, which is counter-intuitive but it works for me. Many will argue that it's not a weight savings due to water weight in food, and that's sometimes true, but only on the first day. On the last day before a resupply, the weight savings is noticeable.
The last stove I carried was a pepsi can stove, nearly negligible weight and it worked fine for boiling water once a day. If you use it more than that, the alcohol weight (less energy density than gas) gets too high. If you carry more than 10 oz of alcohol, I hear, you're better off with gas.
Good luck finding what works for you.
+1 to this. My logic for choosing to go stoveless on the AT last year was as follows:
1) Stoves were the bane of many backcountry trips I'd taken before--something always malfunctioning or leaking, hours being spent hunched over trying to do stove repair--and I didn't want to deal with the fuss. Or the cleanup, which tends to get pretty sketchy from an LNT standpoint.
2) I already eat two cold meals a day in the backcountry. I don't need coffee in the morning. Finding cold things to eat for the third meal (dinner) was not that big of a transition to make.
3) I'm fairly omnivorous and have low standards for what type of fuel I consume, as long as it's fuel.
4) I figured it's easier to eat no-cook foods in a tent when it's raining, and on the AT, you're guaranteed to spend nights/mornings in the rain. This turned out to be very true.
Note that it wasn't even about the weight for me--I'm not an ultralighter by any means. I didn't choose to go stoveless because it was "a fad." I liked the idea of there being no hassle when it came time to eat. I had muesli with water for breakfast, sausage and cheese bagelwiches for lunch, candy bars and spoonfuls of peanut butter and Nutella for sweet/fatty snacks, jerky for savory snacks, and rehydrated hummus or instant potatoes or refried beans, or just more sandwiches and snacks, for dinner. This system worked out great for me and I plan on using it again on future short and long hikes. But you are an entirely different person and this may not be the case for you, so try putting your stove in a bounce box for Hiawassee or somewhere early on and decide then if you can do without it for longer periods of time.
I starting going stoveless on the PCT in '04, mailing the stove ahead for a few hundred miles at a time until I found out I hike better without it. Since then, I hiked the CDT, AT, AZT, PNT, and many smaller hikes without it. It clearly is the better choice for me, or I wouldn't be hiking over 8000 miles without it....The big advantage for me is simply less fuss--no fuel resupply, so less fuss on town stops. And no cleanup, so less water, which makes dry camps more enjoyable and my dry camps have been my best camps--lonely ridges, summits, etc. Food resupply got easier, too, which is counter-intuitive but it works for me. Many will argue that it's not a weight savings due to water weight in food, and that's sometimes true, but only on the first day. On the last day before a resupply, the weight savings is noticeable.
Garlic--I have done some "stoveless" hiking for shorter duration hikes. However, I am curious about what stoveless foods you have eaten on those 8,000 miles of long distance hiking. (I am just looking for some more ideas and some more variety). You clearly maintained your health and your energy levels
on your 8,000 miles of stoveless hiking--and you "resupplied" many times. So, we might as well "pick your brain" regarding what worked (or didn't work) for you. You would be something of an "expert" in this subject matter. Therefore, why should we "reinvent the wheel".
I always bring a stove, or at least the means of making fire, because I like hot tea, hot oatmeal, and hot soup, but mostly because I love fire. After all, pyromania is all that really separates us from lower life forms.
Tenderheart
01-16-2012, 16:24
I carried a Trangia on my thru hike, but have gone stoveless for the last several trips. It is much easier, but it is a sacrifice. Only you can decide.
Ironbelly
01-16-2012, 16:25
I don't mind a cold meal every now and then, and almost always have a cold lunch. However, the boost a warm meal gives is worth the weight of a stove IMO. Not to mention if you need to do something like the hot water in nalgene trick on a really cold night, or if your bag got wet somehow, its not possible without a stove. A nice hot cup oftea, cocoa or coffee on a cool evening or morning is quite nice as well. There are many ways to make really good meals without a stove, it just takes a little ingenuity. It comes down to a personal preference. Even if i went 'stoveless' i think i would still carry a supercat stove or something very light and at least 2-3oz of fuel for an occassional hot drink.
In winter i use a msr xgk ex stove, in summer i use a woodgas stove and use alcohol with the wood stove in the mornings for coffee just because its less fuss and easy.
Thanks for all the feedback.
Trying to decide on a stove isn't about the weight at all. I'm just trying to keep from carrying a bunch of stuff I don't need or will never use. But from reading all the post here I think I will at least start out with a stove. Like one post I saw said I could always send it home or ahead of me which I will do if I don't use it.
But since I've always carried a stove on all my trips and just knowing I have it if I want something hot. I'm going to start with one.
Thanks for the advice.
Chris
smithjerd
01-16-2012, 18:16
The thing I appreciate most about my alchy stove is the total lack of any soot deposited on my cookware. It's burning hot enough that when I have the foil windscreen in close proximity, it's melting the aluminum foil, which was totally unexpected.
garlic08
01-16-2012, 18:25
Garlic--I have done some "stoveless" hiking for shorter duration hikes. However, I am curious about what stoveless foods you have eaten on those 8,000 miles of long distance hiking. (I am just looking for some more ideas and some more variety). You clearly maintained your health and your energy levels on your 8,000 miles of stoveless hiking--and you "resupplied" many times. So, we might as well "pick your brain" regarding what worked (or didn't work) for you. You would be something of an "expert" in this subject matter. Therefore, why should we "reinvent the wheel".
I'm only an expert on what works for me. I've hiked with other stoveless hikers and their menus bear no resemblance to mine and they work just fine for them. I'm a vegetarian, for instance. My diet is very close to Scrub Hiker's (Post 15 above), and it's detailed in this trail journal page: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=213108
I hear Scott Williamson, the uber-hiker who keeps setting PCT records, also hikes stoveless and eats dehydrated refried beans (reconstituted in a plastic container as he hikes) with corn chips. That sounds great, but the beans are hard to find in trail towns and I don't like doing mail drops.
On my AT thru, my stoveless diet was sufficient to keep my weight and energy levels up very well. I lost only a couple of pounds and hiked in 3.5 months. I remember "bonking" only once or twice, like when I ate too much cheese for lunch up in Vermont--great stuff.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/5/0/2/picture_378_thumb.jpg[/URL (http://[URL]http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=43664)]
This is what I carry on most of my week plus section hikes.
In the summer I get by with the windscreen, large pot, cup, and a few Esbit tabs (just put the pot on a couple of small rocks with an Esbit tab between them and surround it with the windscreen). You can also make a stand for the pot with three stakes stuck in the ground, which works a bit better, actually.
One thought I had was to just carry my stainless 40 oz. water bottle and use it to boil water which could be poured into freezer bags or freeze-dried food, but I haven't tried it yet. I'd still carry a few Esbits since you can't always count on a fire. You'd have a dual-purpose item in the waterbottle then, but you'd limit the amount of water you could carry to the campsite (often I'll use the large pot for dinner water after filtering some drinking water into the water bottle. Fwiw,I have three water bladders with holes in them, so I'm considering dropping them from my list of hiking gear.
Rain Man
01-17-2012, 11:54
[URL="http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/5/0/2/picture_378.jpg"]http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/5/0/2/picture_378_thumb.jpg]
This is what I carry on most of my week plus section hikes.
Tinker, your photo link was bad... let's see if I got it fixed for you (below).
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/2/5/0/2/picture_378.jpg
Rain:sunMan
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Rain Man
01-17-2012, 12:03
The thing I appreciate most about my alchy stove is the total lack of any soot deposited on my cookware.
Right you are, as long as you stay with denatured alcohol and don't use rubbing alcohol.
Rain:sunMan
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I must 2nd Garlic's remarks, I think i hike better without a stove. I used 1 for about half of the AT in 2011, and never realized how much of a hassle a stove was. cooking + cleaning was a waste of time in my mind. I found out i was much happier just eating a bag of snyders pretzel bits in 10 minutes, then spending double the amount of time to cook = let food cool enough for me to be able to eat it. going stoveless also made resupplies easier in towns (i also dislike maildrops like garlic08) for me. i could just buy a lot of random stuff, and make it work accordingly. instead of wandering around the grocery store looking for x number of dinners, x number of snacks and so on.
also for the popular coffee argument, starbucks instant coffee packets reconstitute in COLD water! if available, my breakfast of choice was 2 carnations instant b-fast packets, a little powdered milk, 1 s-bucks coffee packet. perfect thing to drink on the fly while packing up in the a.m, then would eat real food after an hour or 2
More Stove Advice Wanted!
I have only used Jet-Boils. We have both the larger one and the smaller one. They are great for heating water fast but not for cooking unless it is "freezer bag style."
I am looking to lighten up my pack, but I have no experience with any other stoves. Please offer suggestions and advise how they work!
Thanks!!