Converting to UltraLightism - Please Help

[Familyman]

Hi everyone,

My wife, son, and I are three cannucks (that's Canadian, for you yanks, eh?) lost in MA. My wife and I in the process of converting to UltraLightism and are faced some terrible and vexing questions which I hope some of the brethrens and sisterens (if that is a word) could answer for us to help speed us into the xanadu of UtlraLightism. (I've tried to find the answer in other sermons/theological discussion in this forum and have failed.)

First, we are going to be camping mostly in NorthEast, mainly in MA, NH, ME, VT, etc. We are also hoping to go to Alaska for a week or so next spring or summer. My question is, do you really need a 20F rated bag if you're camping in northeast, from midspring to midfall or is 45F more than enough? I assume you would need a 20F for Alaska during spring and possibly summer. Or do you?:rolleyes: Hmmmm :-?


Second, we liked Ray Jardine's idea of having a light breathable nylon suit that you could wear to fend of bugs and shrubs (along with its many other uses). Has anyone tried this? Apart from sewing one (I am better ripping things apart than sewing them back together), where can you get something like that? Does the waterproof/breathable rainwear work just as well?

I appreciate any and all help you could give.

Thanks and may your journeys lead you to peace and contentment (or at least a clean bathroom or may be even a dirty one).

[Frosty]

First, we are going to be camping mostly in NorthEast, mainly in MA, NH, ME, VT, etc. We are also hoping to go to Alaska for a week or so next spring or summer. My question is, do you really need a 20F rated bag if you're camping in northeast, from midspring to midfall or is 45F more than enough?Depends on where you are camping and what time of year. "MA, NH, ME, VT, etc." in "midspring to midfall" is quite a range.

45 is probably ok in eastern Mass, RI and CT in July and August, and probably southern NH, also. Nights get chilly when you go north. Anyway, if your requirement is "more than enough" as you say, 45* probably isn't except for the occaisional warm August night, or if you are a very warm sleeper.

[The Will]

I'm in agreement with Frosty's post regarding sleeping bag temperature ratings. I would consider a rating of 45F to be on the lean side, even for summer backpacking in the far N.E., not to mention late spring and early fall.

As far as clothes to combat the bugs, I have seen clothes that claim to have an especially tight weave in order to fend off the mosquities and blackflies, but my own experience in Northern Alberta and the N.W.T of your fine country suggests that standard nylon "backpacking" type pants is a sufficient deterent. I did appreciate having a clothing item know as The Bug Shirt.

http://www.bugshirt.com/

[Jeremy]

In regard to a sleeping bag, either a 32 or 35 degree would work for all three seasons. If you are a cold sleeper, or if you plan on winter backpacking, you can add a liner to the bag, and/or wear expedition weight or mid weight base layer clothing to bed to keep you warm. Also, adding a balaclava, (a lightweight one) will trap in the heat that is lost from your head. There are many ways to set up a sleep system, I suggest a few things you can mix and match according to where you are going, and at what time of year.
In regard to clothing, a lightweight wind shell, like the Mountain Hardwear Phantom Anorak, or similar jacket, would provide good wind, shrub, bug, etc.. protection. Also, waterproof/breathable stuff would work fine. Look on REI.COM and CAMPMOR.COM, and you will find good suggestions.
:banana

[neo]

i converted to ultralight after doing the georgia section in may 2001,i was carrying a 60 lb alice combat pack and went by the trail name of lone wolf

i met hungry howie my first night on the trail at plumorchard shelter,he was the first ultralight hiker i had met,i wanted to hear everything he had to say,he was carrying a golite breeze and his 20 degree 17 oz quilt,lighter is better,lot of grat home grown ultra light gear companys out there now,dancing light gear,antigravity gear,fanatic fringe,ula,jacksrbetter,happy trails to ya:cool: neo

[cutman11]

Funny you should say that, Hungry Howie was the first I met too!...maybe theres a bunch of guys out there with quilts claiming to be the same guy!:jump

[Just Jeff]

Eh...probably one of the cave men was the first.

Outside of them, Grandma Gatewood and Earl Shaffer had Jardine beat by a few years.

Ray may have been the first to commercialize it, though.

[erichlf]

I am originally from NH. I personally would go for a 35F (1.7C for you Canucks) if you are going to camp in spring or fall, especially in ME. Just be sure to have some nice and warm fleece socks, hats, and gloves for those cold nights in the fall. If you have the confidence in quilts I would check out hungry howie's quilt. One little side note on bags. I have a western mountaineering highlite. It is rated to 35F. Last night I was toasty warm down to 20F. I did however have on my thermals, fleece hat, fleece socks, and fleece pullover. I don't think I needed it all on, but I sure was not going to take them off when it was that cold out. This bag is a bit fragile and must be taken care of though. My short bag weighs in at 14.8 oz and cost $200. Pretty good price IMO.

[MedicineMan]

That's a new one on me :)

[Nameless]

When you come to Alaska dont skimp on your bag. I usually have a 15 degree bag, and sleep fully clothed. I do sleep a bit cold, but above treeline (which is most of the hiking in Alaska, and why I do not hammok) gets colder then being in the trees. Dont be surprized to tent right next to a patch of snow on a seventy degree summer day...

Pink

[D-Con]

I did a NOLS course in Alaska in 2003 (June-July) and found the 15 degree bag to be adequate. There were days where it wasn't needed. However, there were also days in July where we woke up to snow falling. Agree with Nameless - You will freeze your butt off in a hammock in Alaska. I have a hennessey Hammock which I used on the AT in 02 but feel it's just too cold in Alaska to bring this item. Consider Six Moon Designs tent as an alternative (2 lbs... I think).

[minnesotasmith]

Try Frogg Toggs or a packa (www.thepacka.com (http://www.thepacka.com)). I'm about to get a packa, but lots of WhiteBlazers swear by FTs.

[Jaybird]

get a 20 Degree bag (@ least) & be done with it!


by the way...what does Uncle Ray (Jardine) say is the weight limit for ULTRA-LIGHTERS these days????

[schwenkler]

I think Ray didn't use a waterproof jacket--the breathable nylon jacket he was talking about would be called a "windshirt," windshell, etc. Something that calls itself water resistant or "splashproof" (love that word) would be the commercial equivalent. Brands like Montane, Marmot, GoLite are supposed to have good ones. You can use just a windshell if you don't mind getting a little wet, or you can use an umbrella like Ray, or a WPB jacket, or a poncho. Combinations thereof...lots of ways.

I slept in MA-ME this summer with a Marmot Trails bag, which has no temperature rating and is probably 45 or 50. I guess I sleep warm--used it into the 30s with Duofold long underwear, socks, and a wool hat.

[Familyman]

Thanks everyone. This is some fantastic information and advice. I know that it is embarrassing to admit as a canuck that I need a sleeping bag, but since we moved to MA, I have shed most of my, thick, warm fur.

From what I'v read, It seems that 30 or 40 would do in a pinch, but that to be safe 20 is the best. I have been looking at different types, and I'm thinking of getting a mummy type with full or 3/4 zipper so that on hot nights I could use it as a quilt. Probably an EMS Mountain Light 20°. I know, I know. It is "heavy" at 2lb. but at least a bit light on the wallet (well, at 200, I should say not as heavy on the wallet).

For pack, I am thinking of either one of GoLite ones or the ULA one with the carbon fiber.

At any rate, thanks again, and if any other tidbits or advice you'd like to dispense, please do!

[Spirit Walker]

I personally would go with the 20 degree bag, unless you sleep really warm, except in the height of summer. You can get all day drizzle type rains in the NE (and Alaska) that will chill you to the core, even though the temperature isn't all that cold. That way lies hypothermia. Also, the weather in the mountains in NH and Maine can change very quickly from beautiful sunshine to very cold and wet. Always be prepared for rain on overnight trips.

As others have said, Supplex works well against the bugs - it is a tight enough weave that bugs simply can't bite through it.

[Frosty]

In regard to a sleeping bag, either a 32 or 35 degree would work for all three seasons. hmmmm

Have you actually stayed in Maine or NH or VT or AK in a 35* bag in spring or fall? Just wondering if this is the voice of expererience? 'Cause my experience is VERY different.

[Nameless]

Hello

Just want to clarify a point on hammoking in Alaska, its not because of the cold you dont want to hammok here, so you cannot just gather warmer liners for your hammok. Its because you wont be camping where there is trees, unless you are in the very rainy sountheast. There is no point to hiking below treeline here, and i hate doing it, because you miss all the views. Very few trails dont go above treeline. I personally dont want to try hammoking above treeline much...

Pink

[Familyman]

Thanks for info.

[Moxie00]

The ultra lite hiker will pass into history in a few years. Hikers found they could cover alot of ground when they left for the woods with only a loin cloth and a bandana that doubled as rain gear, a shelter and a sleeping bag, They will soon realize they enjoy hiking, not just miles and speed. Why do we go to the woods, mountains and deserts? Because we love the woods, mountains and deserts and if we are going to enjoy them why not be comfortable? I am never cold in my racoon coat. I stay dry and bug free in my canvas WW2 2 wall tent and I have lots of room to set up a table so I can have a nice candelight dinner, My coleman generator powers not only my very light Bose CD player and if I want to enjoy my own music I can play my electric organ. While you boil noodles over your pepsi can stove I am cooking corn bread and beef stew in my cast iron dutch oven. In the evening, after dinner I reach into my pack and break out my forge and anvil and knock off a few horseshoes before turning in for the night. No need for filters or chemicals, a case of Poland Spring costs alot less than even the cheapest purifucation system. Yes, ulta-lite is a passing fad, A loyal few will always do it but in years to come the AT will sing with the happy hum of hundreds of chain saws as the average hiker gathers wood for his or her supper.

[lobstergrrrl]

In the early summer and early fall I use a 20 degree bag. In the heat of the summer I use a 40 degree bag. I spend a lot of time hanging out in Baxter park, and it's usually a bit colder there. This february I slept on Chimney Pond in a 20 degree bag with my z-rest and down coat. The only thing that got cold was my hands, which were in fleece gloves. In the middle of the night I took the gloves off and stuck my hands in the pockets of my down coat and they were much warmer.

Last summer I bought a 40 degree lightweight bag at REI for 100 bucks. It weighs 1.4 lbs, no hood, no zipper. It works out fine during the warmer days.

[Heater]

What brand anvil do you have and how many OZ's is it? Does it come with a stuff sack?

[Mother Nature]

You always bring a smile to face! Thanx, Moxie:sun



Mother Nature

[Blue Jay]

My wife and I in the process of converting to UltraLightism and are faced some terrible and vexing questions which I hope some of the brethrens and sisterens (if that is a word) could answer for us to help speed us into the xanadu of UtlraLightism.

Have you found Ultalightism to be different from your previous religion?

[Tha Wookie]

The ultra lite hiker will pass into history in a few years. Hikers found they could cover alot of ground when they left for the woods with only a loin cloth and a bandana that doubled as rain gear, a shelter and a sleeping bag, They will soon realize they enjoy hiking, not just miles and speed. Why do we go to the woods, mountains and deserts? Because we love the woods, mountains and deserts and if we are going to enjoy them why not be comfortable? I am never cold in my racoon coat. I stay dry and bug free in my canvas WW2 2 wall tent and I have lots of room to set up a table so I can have a nice candelight dinner, My coleman generator powers not only my very light Bose CD player and if I want to enjoy my own music I can play my electric organ. While you boil noodles over your pepsi can stove I am cooking corn bread and beef stew in my cast iron dutch oven. In the evening, after dinner I reach into my pack and break out my forge and anvil and knock off a few horseshoes before turning in for the night. No need for filters or chemicals, a case of Poland Spring costs alot less than even the cheapest purifucation system. Yes, ulta-lite is a passing fad, A loyal few will always do it but in years to come the AT will sing with the happy hum of hundreds of chain saws as the average hiker gathers wood for his or her supper.
LOL!!! Hey didn't I run into you and your team of pickled-faced horses on the PCT?

FamilyMan! Get a 20 degree and move on to other lightweight options. Might I suggest checking out rayjardine.com and his two-person ultra-light DIY quilt kits? Also, coming soon he will be selling premade gear. He does not endorse Golite anymore, partly because of the lack of quality in their construction of his designs. I'd get it from him, he's redesigned most everything anyway!

Good luck, and THANK YOU for bringing your children!