Suddenly you are God and can re-route any section, which would it be?

[MedicineMan]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?

[Youngblood]

I don't know about this being God thing. I think it is nice to have alternate paths, like some of the foul weather bypasses. Depending on weather, time of year (bugs, leafs, briars, etc) a particular section may be pretty neat or something that you really don't want to mess with. I like the trail corridor approach, I think it gives you more opportunities to enjoy your hiking.

I mean think about the first few miles of the AT in Georgia. I have hiked them quite a few times and there are some mountains there that are very enjoyable. However, at other times they're not. I know one time when I was doing an out and back from Springer to Gooch Mtn shelter, I caught rain past Hawk Mtn shelter and Sassafras Mtn was muddy, very slippery. After looking at my maps, I decided to just walk FSR42 from Cooper Gap to the parking lot 0.9 mile from Springer. It was a great choice for that kind of weather... beautiful scenry, good footing, seeing things I hadn't seen before like wildlife areas, delightful streams in the numerous coves and such. I saw more critters then than I usually see on the trail. I remember quietly approaching one wildlife area and just standing there motionless for a few minutes when sure enough, a turkey takes off from the middle of the field. Great stuff.

And then there is the road walk between Testanee Gap and Hog Pen Gap. On the trail you get a tough climb up Wildcat Mtn and spectacular views... when the weather cooperates. The road walk saves that big tug in nasty weather but also has some spectacular views of its on, like Lordamercy Cove and with its unrestricted view of Brasstown Bald (GA's highest peak with a distinct viewing tower) that is miles closer than the unrestricted view from Tray Mtn.

I think you need good maps and enough information so you can take the most desirable path that takes you where you want to go, considering the conditions you are in... sometimes the route the AT takes is great and other times another route may be more enjoyable.

Youngblood

[A-Train]

I'd Re-route the State of Pennsylvania thru the Sierras instead, but that's wishful thinking :jump

I was pretty fed up with the last 15-20 miles before Kincorra with the many ups and downs not present on the profile map, but then again, Bob Peoples put those in and he works mighty hard.

[Mountain Dew]

I'd re-route the trail just before it comes into Erwin. Those switch backs tease you with views of the city.

[Rocks 'n Roots]

I was going to post something similar but didn't want to sound flakey. My post would have been "Suddenly you have an unlimited budget and ability to build the AT you want."

My thoughts were dreaming of rerouting roads so they only crossed every 20 miles at minimum. People would just have to get used to the fact that the corridor had to be driven around. Rerouting utility lines so they either tunnelled or passed through designated areas at designated intervals. Tunnelling roads where possible so the AT would be unbroken - even through the suburban connector sections. Making the AT a national preservation corridor 2 miles wide at minimum and 20 miles wide (or more) in a 2000 mile-long national wilderness zone. Building a few artificial peaks in the mid-Atlantic ridge section for views and an objective to hike for. Creating a few gorges with waterfalls. Having the billions to make offers too good to refuse to private property owners with houses in view of the Trail. Then demolishing those houses and restoring the woods...

You get the point...

[Doctari]

So far, (only done the southern 368 miles) the only reroute I would do is the 2 - 3 miles before & after Stecoah gap. Haven't those people heard of switchbacks? The AT went STRAIGHT UP and STRAIGHT DOWN, even tho there was ample room.

I do admit to that being a bad day for me anyway, my first time with Hypothermia, so my view may be a bit skewed.

Another "re route I would do, and if/when I thru hike may do anyway, is Kimsey creek trail instead of over SI & Albert. Yes, Standing Indian & Albert have great views, I just prefer the views along Kimsey creek.


Doctari.

[Walessp]

I'd make the High Water trail the primary AT route around Wolf Creek (near Bland VA). Slogging thru Wolf Creek, with its multiple crossings, is a recipe for hypothermia in cooler weather and wet conditions. First time hikers, beware!

Sky Rider

[minnesotasmith]

Everyone involved in the Appalachian Money Club and enforcing their policies the heck AWAY from the Trail, so no hiker would be forced to change how they hike and camp once in NH from how they've done it the preceding 1500 miles.

[Brushy Sage]

I'd make the High Water trail the primary AT route around Wolf Creek (near Bland VA). Slogging thru Wolf Creek, with its multiple crossings, is a recipe for hypothermia in cooler weather and wet conditions. First time hikers, beware!

Sky Rider



I say AMEN! to this.

[Jaybird]

if i were GOD...why would i need a re-route?

it's only us weak hikers that need the God-like strength (as we percieve it) to get up the hard stretches of mountians & trail.



if there's one thing i've learned...in my 51 years of life...is that 1.)there IS a GOD........&.... 2.)... I AIN't HIM!

[bitpusher]

The section from Wide Gap over Sheep Rock Top. 4-5 false summits? Made for an extremely difficult day.

[Sleepy the Arab]

I would make the trail longer. For starters, the Gulf Hagas trails would be whiteblazed, thus infuriating scores of hikers by creating a five mile loop that puts you 1 mile north of where you started.

[TankHiker]

If I were the AT God, I would make the chairlift the official way up Wildcat.
I'd also kill all the mosquitoes in that swamp right after Unionville. :D

-TANK

[DebW]

I'd route the trail from North Kinsman over Cannon in the White Mountains. If the trail can loop over the northern Presies and end up back at the base of Washington, why not do the same for Cannon? Then every thru-hiker would go over the Cannon Balls and have some real PUDs to swear at. Maybe I'm just a masochist.

[TJ aka Teej]

My ideas just take $$, not deism: I'd send the AT across a footbridge just north of the Caratunk ferry (landing in front of Steve's Store), rebuild the footbridge across the West Branch at Neowadnehunk Falls send the trail along the west bank and over the Toll Dam, reroute the AT back to Daicey Pond (rebuilt as a lean-to and tentsite only campground), send the trail acroos the dirt road and into the woods after Tracy Pond (instead of the tote road walk to Katahdin Stream), and move the Birches to the hilltop above Katahdin Stream Campground (imagine finishing GAMErs waking to a sunrise view of Katahdin rather than to vehicle traffic noise) and have the AT run between Tracy Pond past the new Birches site and connecting back to the Hunt Trail at the Owl Trail junction. Yeah, I know. In my dreams.

[TJ aka Teej]

Then every thru-hiker would go over the Cannon Balls and have some real PUDs to swear at.You'd make a devil of a goddess, Deb! :D

[The Old Fhart]

DebW-"Then every thru-hiker would go over the Cannon Balls and have some real PUDs to swear at."I've done the Cannon Balls a few times (done NE100H winter) and they aren't THAT bad. I really like the climb up the back side of Cannon, especially when it's icy! :D

[Cookerhiker]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?
Thanks Medicine Man - you've vindicated my experience hiking to Doc's Knob 2 weeks ago in 10 inches of snow. Now I know it wasn't just me!

[bearbag hanger]

Everyone involved in the Appalachian Money Club and enforcing their policies the heck AWAY from the Trail, so no hiker would be forced to change how they hike and camp once in NH from how they've done it the preceding 1500 miles.

I second that motion!

[walkin' wally]

I have never been there but no one seems to mention the superfund site at Palmerton. Is it as bad as people say? Could it be put back the way it was before the pollution or just reroute the trail away from it? It seems like quite a view from the top.

[weary]

My ideas just take $$, not deism: I'd send the AT across a footbridge just north of the Caratunk ferry (landing in front of Steve's Store), rebuild the footbridge across the West Branch at Neowadnehunk Falls send the trail along the west bank and over the Toll Dam, reroute the AT back to Daicey Pond (rebuilt as a lean-to and tentsite only campground), send the trail acroos the dirt road and into the woods after Tracy Pond (instead of the tote road walk to Katahdin Stream), and move the Birches to the hilltop above Katahdin Stream Campground (imagine finishing GAMErs waking to a sunrise view of Katahdin rather than to vehicle traffic noise) and have the AT run between Tracy Pond past the new Birches site and connecting back to the Hunt Trail at the Owl Trail junction. Yeah, I know. In my dreams.
I'll buy Teej's suggestions, except the bridge over the Kennebec. The surrounding terrain isn't steep enough for a "wilderness" bridge to survive the first winter. Anything that could survive the crushing spring flood and ice flows would have to be a monstrosity not in keeping with the dream of a wild trail.

Weary

[Peaks]

I have never been there but no one seems to mention the superfund site at Palmerton. Is it as bad as people say? Could it be put back the way it was before the pollution or just reroute the trail away from it? It seems like quite a view from the top.

I'd like to see Leigh Gap stay just the way it is, as a testiment to how fragile the environment is and how easy we can really screw it up.

[flyfisher]

I'd have the trail start at Amacola Falls instead of Springer.

It is pretty, it is a nice place, and it is a fitting beginning or end to the trail.

http://www.imrisk.com/atsouth/P5140001_web.JPG

I'd also have the trail go up the stairs along the falls instead of up the jeep trail out of sight of the falls.

[Peaks]

I'd have the trail start at Amacola Falls instead of Springer.

It is pretty, it is a nice place, and it is a fitting beginning or end to the trail.

http://www.imrisk.com/atsouth/P5140001_web.JPG

I'd also have the trail go up the stairs along the falls instead of up the jeep trail out of sight of the falls.

Yes,

And then change the northern terminus from Katahdin to Chimney Pond

[Lone Wolf]

I'd put back all the old road walks.

[MOWGLI]

Yes,

And then change the northern terminus from Katahdin to Chimney Pond


I thought the southern terminus was Key West? You mean, it's not? :D

[weary]

I'd put back all the old road walks.
Oh. They're still there. Walk on the roads anytime you like. Roads are easy to follow. With a good compass and map, you don't need white blazes.

Weary

[Smile]

I would reroute the trail AROUND the Mtn after you cross the Lehigh River (NOBO), at Palmerton Gap, that 1 mi uphill scramble isn't necessary, use the back side of the mountain (east side) and ease gently back to the trail over towards the Blue Mtn Ski area -just a few miles difference.

And I'd get the folks in MA to mark Race Mtn better with White Blazes, in the fog it's a real pain to go 'searching' for them on the boulders on top...not well marked.

[Kerosene]

The trail clubs have addressed the big nasty road walks that I endured in the 70's: Cumberland Gap in PA, Oil Hill Road along the NY/NJ border, and Webatuck near the NY/CT border. It's pretty amazing to see what's replaced these sections.

The ugliest climbs that I recall tended to be ugly because it was too hot, too windy, too wet, or I was too tired. On other days those same climbs can be a piece of cake.

I'd probably look at the Pennsylvania section and put in some better views along the way.

[Rocks 'n Roots]

Oil Hill [City] Road along the NY/NJ border

Call me nostalgic, but you can still see the old blazes along that route out by High Point. Makes me think of those who actually walked by those blazes...

[TDale]

I'd make it a loop trail.

[bitpusher]

Ya, that'd get rid of that annoying shuttle drive.

[Hikerhead]

I'm kind of on the same wave length as RNR. I like to see some of the reroutes returned back to the old trail. Two examples that I know of is the reroute above the Pickle Branch Shelter near Dragons Tooth and the reroute coming down to the Pine Swamp Shelter. Is it just me or does anybody else think that most of the time when they reroute the trail, it was taken away from the interesting things like cascading creeks, mossy rocks. The old trail going up Peters Mtn is a good example. That is a beatiful place following the creek straight up the gorge. And then when you get to the top near the swamp.....it's a shame the trail was moved away from there.

[SavageLlama]

It's not the trail that needs re-routing... It's my life, so I can spend more time on it!

:D

[bearbait2k4]

I would steer the AT away from the Walkill Mosquito Refuge in NJ, and also try to find some woods in that farmland stretch in PA. That section kills in the heat of the day.

[Jack Tarlin]

This is kind of a fun thread.

I second the motion that the walk around the Mosquito Sanctuary is pretty pointless, especially when it's 95 in the shade.

I also think there should be a re-route in Duncannon, so you stay on North Market Street and go right past the Doyle.....there's also a great ice cream shop a few blocks later, which would be great to hit on the way outta town on a hot July afternoon.

Further south, I wish the Trail went by Crabtree Falls, near the Priest, which is a spectacular spot. There are all sorts of amazing places within two miles of the Trail, and the majority of thru-hikers either skip them, or don't even knowe that they're there.

I wish the Trail were closer to Charlottesville rather than Waynesboro.

I'm glad the Trail goes thru Shenandoah National Park, but I wish it were further from the road, and perhaps crossed pavement fewer times. It's a beautiful spot, but you never really get a chance to forget about how close you are to cars and civilization. Who wants to hike fifteen feet from a well-travelled two-lane road? And by the way, there are more good views on the road in the Park than there are on the Trail...what's up with that?

I'm a Civil War nut. I wish the Trail went closer to Lexington (VA), Antietam (MD) and Gettysburg.

I wish they'd figure out a way to get you from Wind Gap to Delaware Water Gap without killing you. THIS is why everyone hates Pennsylvania.

I wish the Trail went down Mt. Greylock a different way and ended up closer to Williamstown, a great Trail town.

I wish they'd bring the Trail back to the Inn at Long Trail in Vermont, instead of pulling you a mile down the road from it.

I kind of like the old Trail in New Hampshire, when the Trail took you to Gorham. Also, the trail is on the wrong side of the street in downtown Hanover. Instead of going past the Inn, the Gap, and the bank, it should go past Five-Olde, the Dirt Cowboy, the Left Bank, and the Dartmouth Bookstore, which, in one block, would bring the Trail within yards of the best bar, coffee shop, used bookstore, and new bookstore, on the entire Trail.

In Maine, I wish the towns were closer to the Trail; in particular, I wish the Trail in Caratunk went right by Steve Longley's place, so he'd get the visits and the business that he deserves; likewise, I wish the Trail still went right by the Shaws' in Monson.

And lastly, pulling the Trail away from Daicey Pond in Baxter State Park was criminal. It's one of the great views of Katahdin, and most hikers nowadays never see it. Class of 2005 take note. Take 2 minutes and stroll up to Daicey's, and don't forget your camera.

[steve hiker]

I'd steer the AT away from where it goes by that strip of bars in Joisey. After a long day of hiking in the heat it's irresistable to go there in the evening and they got these women that go to them bars after work, they're real friendly and will invite you home with them to take a hot shower and sleep in a soft comftorble bed but watch out, some of them needs a different kinda shower and gots real bad, you kno ... :eek:

[HikerHobo]

I thought the southern terminus was Key West? You mean, it's not? :D
Sure hope WingFoot doesn't see this.

[Mini-Mosey]

I don't have a suggestion on where to reroute any part of the AT(yet); I've only been on the part between Tagg Run Shelter in Pa. and Bearfence Mountain Hut in the Shenandoahs(so far). I had the good fortune to hike on the Maryland relocation of the AT a few days ago, and I want to compliment anyone and everyone who had anything to do with it. It is a vast improvement and very well done. Thanks!

[Kerosene]

I second the motion that the walk around the Mosquito Sanctuary is pretty pointless, especially when it's 95 in the shade.Just about any section can be frustrating given poor conditions. I did this section last June 30th on a sunny, 75-degree day and it was very memorable. I literally saw birds of every color of the rainbow: Cardinal, Baltimore Oriole, Goldfinch, Blue Jay, Indigo Buntings, small brown sparrows, and Red-winged Blackbirds (okay, no green birds). It was a phenomenal stroll, even though it was a touch warm and I didn't have sunscreen on. You can always hike in the Fall when it's cooler, but then you'd miss out on other things.

[lobster]

1. That Palmerton barren landscape is great!

2. Amicalola Park as the start and Chimney Pond as the finish routing the trail across the Knife's Edge.

3. Creeper north out of Damascus as official AT.

4. Trail rerouted back to the Inn at the Long Trail.

5. That climb just north of Stecoah Gap! In 94 it went straight up to the top, but in 98 the top half was switchbacked. I was sad!

[Disney]

Change the policies in NH and for the love of God, go around the mosquito infested swamp south of Great Barrington, Mass.

[The Desperado]

That dumb little section at High point NJ that cuts down prior to going up to the monument [so you can actually be at the highest point in NJ]. The trail used to go right up to the monument and it was a nice view of three states. I route it back right past the monument & you would get the view. [besides it was a less rocky section prior]....

[MOWGLI]

OK, not many of you probably know this area, but...

from Mombasha High Point inside Sterling Forest State Park (NY), I'd have the AT follow the Allis Trail to the Sterling Ridge Trail, to the firetower. THat firetower is almost directly across Greenwood Lake from the NY/NJ State Line. You can see it from the ridge on a clear day.

I'd then look to come down to Sterling Lake and work back towards the existing AT near Little Dam Lake.

[Hikerhead]

Two that come to mind.

1) Have the trail go back through the Peaks Of Otter area in VA. If I'm not mistaken, the trail did go thru here before the parkway was built. Now there's a huge detour, going off the ridge close to rt 43, all the way to North Creek and then joining back up to the ridge around Apple Orchard mtn. A 20 mile detour I'm guessing. I get the impression that they didn't want thru hikers anywhere close to the Peaks of Otter. What a great stay that would be. Showers, Food, there's a campground. The CCC even has a shelter on top of Sharp Top much like the one on Blood Mtn.

2) Take the trail through Big Meadows in SNP. That is a very unique/interesting place. And I know someone will say that it would be destuctive to the area. Well, they've already built a gravel road right thru the middle of it. This is one of the true open balds in the SNP.

Here's a little history....Sharp Top mtn at the Peaks of Otter was long thought to be the highest point in Va. When they built the Washington Monument, every state contributed a stone. The one from Va came from Sharp Top mtn, Va loftiest peak or so thought. Here's a link to the Peaks of Otter and the photo where I found the above info. http://www.wp21.com/b25crash/peaks.htm

[lobster]

Peaks of Otter is great. Not something to be missed. That shelter amongst the rocks at the top is pretty cool. Great views.

[KirkMcquest]

I think, if I'm God, I'm probably too busy moving in and out of alternate dimensions, and parallel universes to give much thought to the AT.

Of course I could just create a whole new world with a trail going all around it and hike it with Angelina Jolie ( or a reasonable facsimile), or maybe Kate Moss. In such case, you'd all be on your own for awhile.:D

[napster]

If I were GOD and thank the good LORD I am not! First thing, I"d concur with flyfisher addition.Also I'd get rid of Mount Albert or make it a slidding rock so you could get it over with all at once and I would also do away with the whole loop thing around Albert where 20 miles later you are still hiking only about five mile from where you started from. I would also make wipperwills and all manner of nite fowl able to churp a few notes from "dueling banjos" So I could have some good laughs at some hikers on the run.
:D

[saimyoji]

I think, if I'm God, I'm probably too busy moving in and out of alternate dimensions, and parallel universes to give much thought to the AT.

Of course I could just create a whole new world with a trail going all around it and hike it with Angelina Jolie ( or a reasonable facsimile), or maybe Kate Moss. In such case, you'd all be on your own for awhile.:D

Clearly you have NO IDEA what it is to be godly, kindly keep your BS nonsense comments stored safely in your rectum and don't pollute this site with your spewage. :D Don't bother to reply, I'll only ignore you and you'll make yourself look like an even bigger ass.(hat):eek:

This doesn't require a re-route, cause the trail is already there, but I would re-blaze the Dunnfield Creek Trail around DWG as white blazes. IMO it is a more interesting hike along the creek. The end portion is much steeper, but there are some small falls and stuff that are much more interesting than the currently blazed trail.

I saw 4 bear there in two hikes last fall.

[KirkMcquest]

Clearly you have NO IDEA what it is to be godly, kindly keep your BS nonsense comments stored safely in your rectum and don't pollute this site with your spewage. :D Don't bother to reply, I'll only ignore you and you'll make yourself look like an even bigger ass.(hat)

Please stop posting these inappropriate messages on WB. The site would be so much better without you here and your gutter mouth, that no one is interested in hearing. Clearly YOU have no idea what it is to have MANNERS, because you were never taught any. When people are participating in a fun and humorous way, they don't need to hear your inadequacies verbalized.

Save it for whoever failed you as a child

[Doppleganger]

I think, if I'm God, I'm probably too busy moving in and out of alternate dimensions, and parallel universes to give much thought to the AT.

Of course I could just create a whole new world with a trail going all around it and hike it with Angelina Jolie ( or a reasonable facsimile), or maybe Kate Moss. In such case, you'd all be on your own for awhile.:D

LOL. think I'd go the same route. maybe not Kate M. though:-?

[MedicineMan]

Well each of you are Gods when it comes to re-routing the AT, all you need is a map and compass and the willingness to use them; that or a curiosity to know what may be off the trail a wee bit or a long way.....the more I hike and the more I think about the trails I hike on--not just the AT (did a section of the Florida Trail last week in the Big Cypress), I'm starting to see them as framework, vertebrae, not the whole body.

[Moxie00]

I would re-route the trail from Harpers Ferry right through Washington DC-then east through Bagdad, then back west through Texas, north past Hillary Clintons office in New York then back to Herpers ferry to split north or south to the origional trail. That way we can at last justify all that political bulls*it we all (myself included) put on this great hiking forum when we should be talking about hiking. Of course I enjoy the political bulls*it so my reroute would justify my posts.:-?

[max patch]

I think its a shame that Gulf Hagas is not part of the trail.

On the other hand, it gave me a great excuse to return to Maine to hike the in the area.

[Singe03]

I would steer the AT away from the Walkill Mosquito Refuge in NJ, and also try to find some woods in that farmland stretch in PA. That section kills in the heat of the day.

Definately, that was by far the most miserable stretch on the trail for me hidiously hot and humid even by Houston standards, add 10 billion hungry mosquitos just to make it more of a "challenge". Slideshow and I did push some serious miles in a BIG hurry trying to outrun the swarm but to no avail, we got eaten alive. The stretch after that just before town was pretty miserable too...

That stretch can GO...

[saimyoji]

Please stop posting these inappropriate messages on WB. The site would be so much better without you here and your gutter mouth, that no one is interested in hearing. Clearly YOU have no idea what it is to have MANNERS, because you were never taught any. When people are participating in a fun and humorous way, they don't need to hear your inadequacies verbalized.

Save it for whoever failed you as a child

Knew I'd get a rise out of you with that. Too easy. Doesn't that ***** eating green grin mean sarcastic? :confused:

As for my inadequacies and being failed as a child, well, I used to finish things but now I

[ed bell]

I think its a shame that Gulf Hagas is not part of the trail.

On the other hand, it gave me a great excuse to return to Maine to hike the in the area.I think this is an important point. I can't think of any changes except for adding a spur trail to my house. I am begining to wonder if maybe the AT doesn't need more allure as much as other wonderful, unique, remote, and relatively unknown trails need the AT. Still love it all the same.:sun

[MedicineMan]

maybe i'm taking it wrong but i would say just the opposite, that it is the spur trails which need more public acclaim amonst the hiking and non-hiking community...Mowgli, help me out here.

[ed bell]

maybe i'm taking it wrong but i would say just the opposite, that it is the spur trails which need more public acclaim amonst the hiking and non-hiking community...Mowgli, help me out here.
My awkwardly worded post was only pointing out that the AT is significant as it currently exists. Adding more "treasures" to would bring more visitors to a trail that at times is over capacity. True that many other trails need exposure/ funding / volunteers, just saying more users can hurt a trail.

[lobster]

90% of the trail is never over capacity at any time of the year.

[Lone Wolf]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?

i would re-route the AT out of Baxter Park and the Smokys

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

LW goes where Dinos now fear to tread. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/scared007.gif

[shelterbuilder]

LW - where DO you keep digging up these old threads??

The walk from Eckville up the road to the Pinnacle needs to be re-routed over more rocks and boulders - it's too easy!:D

[cowboy nichols]

:eek::eek:Gee. I agree with L W:D:D

[ki0eh]

Tunnelling roads where possible so the AT would be unbroken - even through the suburban connector sections.

Just wait until later this year, see a picture on http://www.geocities.com/cvatclub/ :)

[shelterbuilder]

Just wait until later this year, see a picture on http://www.geocities.com/cvatclub/ :)

LMAO, ki0eh - good one!:D:banana:banana:D

[minnesotasmith]

You got your wish on the second one; they've done just that. And, I would love to see the AT officially start at Amicalola myself, too. As it used to run through the park south to Mt. Oglethorpe, in a way it's a more complete thruhike to start at Amicalola, since Oglethorpe is no longer possible.


I'd have the trail start at Amacola Falls instead of Springer.

It is pretty, it is a nice place, and it is a fitting beginning or end to the trail.

http://www.imrisk.com/atsouth/P5140001_web.JPG

I'd also have the trail go up the stairs along the falls instead of up the jeep trail out of sight of the falls.

[Footslogger]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?
====================================

I wasn't very fond of the last few miles around Lake Hebron, leading into Monson.

'Slogger

[dessertrat]

====================================

I wasn't very fond of the last few miles around Lake Hebron, leading into Monson.

'Slogger


Why is that?

[Footslogger]

Why is that?
================================

Well ...I've hiked it twice now and both times it just seemed like it didn't comform to any of the guidebook descriptions. You're on the road, then you're in a ditch, then you're back on the road.

Not complaining really. It's certainly not the worst section between Springer and Katahdin. But it is one I would chance a bit "if I was God and could re-route any section" ...

'Slogger

[GrouchoMark]

Even though it would be a meandering route, as the trail leaves the Smokies, I would try to route the trail over the summit of Mount Mitchell, then along the east rim of Linville Gorge, and finally back over to the Roan Highlands.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Even though it would be a meandering route, as the trail leaves the Smokies, I would try to route the trail over the summit of Mount Mitchell, then along the east rim of Linville Gorge, and finally back over to the Roan Highlands.That would make for a spectacular hike - way better than the current route.

[Phreak]

I'd reroute the entire trail - with no switchbacks. :D

[Yahtzee]

I would relo PA. Keep the trail along the Appalachians to the west a bit longer. Up towards Williamsport, across the little Grand Canyon, thru New York, where you could hit a 4000 footer (name escapes me at the moment) and then hook back up in Ct. or Mass.

[Jan LiteShoe]

I would make the trail longer. For starters, the Gulf Hagas trails would be whiteblazed, thus infuriating scores of hikers by creating a five mile loop that puts you 1 mile north of where you started.

Didn't you do a funny riff on the PUDS before Moreland Gap shelter?
I laughed and laughed when I read that...

I've heard Bob Peoples mention it too. There's isn't a copy "out there" by any chance, is there?

[Jan LiteShoe]

Even though it would be a meandering route, as the trail leaves the Smokies, I would try to route the trail over the summit of Mount Mitchell, then along the east rim of Linville Gorge, and finally back over to the Roan Highlands.

That's part of the Mountains-to-Sea Trail, is it not?

Don't forget Stone Mountain. Hmmm....
Now how would you get all that in AND the Humps, which are not to be missed...

[ki0eh]

I would relo PA. Keep the trail along the Appalachians to the west a bit longer. Up towards Williamsport, across the little Grand Canyon, thru New York, where you could hit a 4000 footer (name escapes me at the moment) and then hook back up in Ct. or Mass.

http://www.greateasterntrail.org

[warren doyle]

The 3.7 miles between Bailey Gap Shelter and Salt Sulphur Turnpike.

[Hikerhead]

The 3.7 miles between Bailey Gap Shelter and Salt Sulphur Turnpike.

This is on Saltpond Mtn in Va near Pearisburg right? OK I'll bite.....why?

....OK I know now....it has something to do with a little movie called Dirty Dancing, right?

[rafe]

The 3.7 miles between Bailey Gap Shelter and Salt Sulphur Turnpike.

Hmmm... within 10 miles of where I quit my hike in '90... :-?

[D'Artagnan]

I'd re-route Grayson Highlands to within 5 miles of my house. :D

[skinny minnie]

Pennsylvania would magically become Hawaii.

[DavidNH]

I would re route the trail away from.. rather than purposely over the Pennsylvania rocks. Also.. away from Cumberland Valley. I think I would also keep it away from Duncanon, which is in my oppinion the trail's ugliest town.

But I have to make one comment here. Minnesota Smith has displayed the ultimate and worst of Thru hiker arrogrance! Not have to change what you have done last 1500 miles? What makes you so special? Thru hikers are part of the AT community, not the community.

As for the AMC territory you rail against..

It is one of the most spectacular parts of the trail
If we did not have caretakers, camp sites would be much more impacted due to the crowds

Where it not for the huts.. many hikers, thru hikers included would have major problems due to the harsh weather conditions that can occurr.

As it is.. at huts you can get work for stay and not have to pay the hefty fees. You get to socialize with regular day hikers and weekenders and be at times a bit of a celebrerty. You have access to more food and you would have a hard time lugging enough food through the whites without those huts to ressuply at or get fed at.

The trail exists for all of us not just a special few (and I am a thru hiker myself).


I do not delight myself in having to pay for the snacks the amc provides but I am not forced to by it. Time your trip right and you can get work for stay which means free lodging and free food. And frankly AMC food is far better than anything you can carry.

Part of the AT thru hiker experience is TO change and TO adapt and to see the best of the eastern mountains. Just be cause you did something one way in Virginia does not mean you have any special privilage to do the same in NH or ME for example.

The AT will always follow the crest of the White Mountains and the AMC will always be there. There will always be crowds in the mountains because NYC, Boston, and Montreal are all within a days drive. It is just a week or so out of your AT experience. Deal with it MR Smith!

David

[warren doyle]

This is one short example of 'roadaphobia' practiced by the NPS/ATC during the purchasing of land to protect the trail and these two organizations having this intense desire to take the trail off of all roads whether they were passable by vehicles or not.

The area in question is USFS land. What was once a pleasant, little-used forest service roadwalk along a forested ridge has become a rocky slanted contour walk below the ridge.

It has nothing to do with parts of Dirty Dancing filmed at nearby Mountain Lake. Besides, all the dancing I do is nice, clean fun.

I walked this particular, unpleasant section last Saturday, then had a pleasant February ford of Stony Creek (looks like they are about ready to contruct the new footbridge across it) followed by an evening contra dance with about 150 Mormons in Pembroke, VA near Pearisburg.
So, so much for your Dirty Dancing hypothesis.

Happy trails and twirls!


This is on Saltpond Mtn in Va near Pearisburg right? OK I'll bite.....why?

....OK I know now....it has something to do with a little movie called Dirty Dancing, right?

[Hikerhead]

This is one short example of 'roadaphobia' practiced by the NPS/ATC during the purchasing of land to protect the trail and these two organizations having this intense desire to take the trail off of all roads whether they were passable by vehicles or not.

The area in question is USFS land. What was once a pleasant, little-used forest service roadwalk along a forested ridge has become a rocky slanted contour walk below the ridge.

It has nothing to do with parts of Dirty Dancing filmed at nearby Mountain Lake. Besides, all the dancing I do is nice, clean fun.

I walked this particular, unpleasant section last Saturday, then had a pleasant February ford of Stony Creek (looks like they are about ready to contruct the new footbridge across it) followed by an evening contra dance with about 150 Mormons in Pembroke, VA near Pearisburg.
So, so much for your Dirty Dancing hypothesis.

Happy trails and twirls!

I'm sorry that you don't like this section. I myself thought it was pretty nice after the climb up from Stony Creek. Most people whine about the rocks north or the shelter.

But I thought it would have been nice to swing the trail up the Mountain Lake Resort. You could stay in the same cottage room as Johnny did and maybe get a little Dirty Dancing in too. :) :banana:eek:

[geoffrey morris]

it's really too bad the AT doesn't go over mount Mitchael and grandfather.

[sasquatch2014]

If I were god I would then have the power to stop things from happening. In that case I could stop people 10 years from now saying that they wish that the trail did not go past the Dover Oak in NY. To trail east of this is planned a large housing community complete with golf course. I hear they are asking for something like 150 homes to be built. The corridor through here is narrow so you will be walking in their backyards. The view from the rock outcrop reffered to as Cat Rocks (there are two of these in NY, this is the one closer to CT not NJ) will be of roof tops and roads. They have already begun the survey work.

Now I don't want to be a total bummer so like we do in my family we always ask to look for 3 positive things about the situation so here I go.

1) There will be great opportunity as you walk through the backyards in the summer for BBQ yogi.

2) More cars means more of a chance for hikers to get a ride the 3 miles or so into town.

3) Even though i don't want the houses to come in if they do maybe i can sell enough of them for high prices to retire and just stay out on the trail longer.

Until then anyone coming through here enjoy the view as it lasts.

[Sly]

it's really too bad the AT doesn't go over mount Mitchael and grandfather.

The Mountains to Sea Trail goes over Mitchell and goes near Grandfather but it's private. You could do a blue blaze off the AT from near where it starts at Clingman's and do a road walk to where the trail crosses near 19E from near Grandfather.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

If I had the power to do anything, I would expand both the termini to the true beginning and end of the Appalachian mountain range so the Appalachian Trail would actually cover the entire Appalachian range.

[Sly]

If I had the power to do anything, I would expand both the termini to the true beginning and end of the Appalachian mountain range so the Appalachian Trail would actually cover the entire Appalachian range.

Why? You can still walk the range on a series of trails

[minnesotasmith]

As for the AMC territory you rail against..

It is one of the most spectacular parts of the trail
If we did not have caretakers, camp sites would be much more impacted due to the crowds

David

1) The natural beauty of the White Mountains was not created by the AMC. They get no credit for it. It existed long before that unique idea of a scam in America first got thought up by down-on-their-luck grifters over their last pitcher of cheap beer (the way Mormonism or Scientology undoubtedly did), and will be there long after the AMC's name is as forgotten as that of Bucephelas's 3rd assistant stall shoveler.

2) If the umbilicus-for-newbies called an AMC hut disappeared from even memory, being replaced by shelters standard-on-the-more-modern AT sections, it's an easy prediction that fewer, rather than more, hikers would venture to take on that section. Along with the AMC's advertising, the huts are a BIG factor in loading that section of Trail with as many overnight visitors as it gets. Let newbies all have to determine, locate, buy, and hump decent cold-weather gear to not freeze like half of Quebecer visitors to the Whites seem to routinely do, and it's a slam-dunk that the visit #s will go way down. Anyway, the challenge aspect to the Whites would go up without the huts as a fallback, and many harder-core current users would likely prefer that.

[Jeff]

The young kids that get exposed to the Whites and the AT during their hut experience will be of great value as they grow older. Fewer hikers mean few voters in favor of protecting our mountains.

Thank goodness some kids get the opportunity to play outdoors!!!

[Lone Wolf]

1) The natural beauty of the White Mountains was not created by the AMC. They get no credit for it. It existed long before that unique idea of a scam in America first got thought up by down-on-their-luck grifters over their last pitcher of cheap beer (the way Mormonism or Scientology undoubtedly did), and will be there long after the AMC's name is as forgotten as that of Bucephelas's 3rd assistant stall shoveler.

2) If the umbilicus-for-newbies called an AMC hut disappeared from even memory, being replaced by shelters standard-on-the-more-modern AT sections, it's an easy prediction that fewer, rather than more, hikers would venture to take on that section. Along with the AMC's advertising, the huts are a BIG factor in loading that section of Trail with as many overnight visitors as it gets. Let newbies all have to determine, locate, buy, and hump decent cold-weather gear to not freeze like half of Quebecer visitors to the Whites seem to routinely do, and it's a slam-dunk that the visit #s will go way down. Anyway, the challenge aspect to the Whites would go up without the huts as a fallback, and many harder-core current users would likely prefer that.

the AMC is a good organization. thru-hikers aren't tough enuf to deal with a hutless/shelterless Whites

[minnesotasmith]

thru-hikers aren't tough enuf to deal with a hutless/shelterless Whites

You and I are. Surely many to most NOBOs are as well after 1600 miles of hiking? (SOBOs, well, they're going the wrong way and should know better, one way or the other.) ;)

[Jeff]

Very true Lone Wolf...Most thru hiker stop at every hut (except maybe Greenleaf) for the low cost soup and baked goods.

[Lone Wolf]

Surely many to most NOBOs are as well after 1600 miles of hiking?

nope. they're too used to hostels, motels, shelters and slackpacking

[Lone Wolf]

Very true Lone Wolf...Most thru hiker stop at every hut (except maybe Greenleaf) for the low cost soup and baked goods.

... and that BS work-for-stay :rolleyes:

[minnesotasmith]

nope. they're too used to hostels, motels, shelters and slackpacking

Well, our opinions obviously vary on that one. (I personally spent all of one night in a motel during my nine-month thru, if you don't count the Doyle or when my family visited me on the Trail.) Anyway, why not then have normal shelters in the Whites as is standard policy on the rest of the AT as a safety backstop? It was cold but not icy/snowy when I went through there in mid-fall, but I think I can use a later section of my hike for valid comparison. When I was in the high mountains of VT in the first part of November when winter came early there, the trail shelters were pretty handy. :)

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Why? You can still walk the range on a series of trailsAgreed, but I still think the Appalachian Trail should encompass the entire Appalachian range.

[Mrs Baggins]

So far, (only done the southern 368 miles) the only reroute I would do is the 2 - 3 miles before & after Stecoah gap. Haven't those people heard of switchbacks? The AT went STRAIGHT UP and STRAIGHT DOWN, even tho there was ample room.

I do admit to that being a bad day for me anyway, my first time with Hypothermia, so my view may be a bit skewed.

Another "re route I would do, and if/when I thru hike may do anyway, is Kimsey creek trail instead of over SI & Albert. Yes, Standing Indian & Albert have great views, I just prefer the views along Kimsey creek.


Doctari.

Absolutely I'd change the whole route from the NOC to Brown Fork shelter. There is no reason for that kind of straight up stuff. Benton McKaye wanted a "footpath in the wilderness", a trail for all Americans to enjoy - - - not some ridiculous adrenaline challenge like that. But then I'm short legged and a 30 lb pack is 1/4 of my body weight. That is a hugely different thing from the 6 foot tall person carrying 1/6 or less of their weight. But I did make it (at least to Stecoah Gap - I knew what was coming after that and was far too exhausted to keep going :() I'll finish it another time - and curse the people that cut that trail all the way up.

[minnesotasmith]

Agreed, but I still think the Appalachian Trail should encompass the entire Appalachian range.

Do you mean:

1) It should extend south to north-central AL, near B'ham, say?

2) It should extend north to include the land section of the IAT (the ferry section being arguably over the top) , or just to the Canadian border?

[wakapak]

1) The natural beauty of the White Mountains was not created by the AMC. They get no credit for it. It existed long before that unique idea of a scam in America first got thought up by down-on-their-luck grifters over their last pitcher of cheap beer (the way Mormonism or Scientology undoubtedly did), and will be there long after the AMC's name is as forgotten as that of Bucephelas's 3rd assistant stall shoveler.

2) If the umbilicus-for-newbies called an AMC hut disappeared from even memory, being replaced by shelters standard-on-the-more-modern AT sections, it's an easy prediction that fewer, rather than more, hikers would venture to take on that section. Along with the AMC's advertising, the huts are a BIG factor in loading that section of Trail with as many overnight visitors as it gets. Let newbies all have to determine, locate, buy, and hump decent cold-weather gear to not freeze like half of Quebecer visitors to the Whites seem to routinely do, and it's a slam-dunk that the visit #s will go way down. Anyway, the challenge aspect to the Whites would go up without the huts as a fallback, and many harder-core current users would likely prefer that.

MS, majority of the Huts in the Whites were built before the AT even was there. Yeah, maybe the challenge of the Whites would go up if the Huts were not there, but no one forces anyone to stay in them, so you can make it as challenging as you want to, and i'm sure there are many hard core current hikers that do just that! I also believe that the number of deaths in the Whites would go up if the Huts and their crews were not around too!

[minnesotasmith]

MS, majority of the Huts in the Whites were built before the AT even was there. Yeah, maybe the challenge of the Whites would go up if the Huts were not there, but no one forces anyone to stay in them, so you can make it as challenging as you want to, and i'm sure there are many hard core current hikers that do just that! I also believe that the number of deaths in the Whites would go up if the Huts and their crews were not around too!

1) The section of trail that constitutes the AT in the Whites was absorbed into the AT over two generations back.. Any grandfathering of "special" (in the way retarded kids are deemed "special" or "exceptional") exemptions for the AMC to not have to get its act together to the level nearly all other trail clubs somehow have managed to (on much lower budgets) should have run out long ago.

2) The huts are IMO a major contributor to the high visitor load in the Whites. Many here think that # should go down to preserve the Whites' natural condition better. Presuming you agree with the current visitor #s being excessive, what would you suggest instead to accomplish that?

3) On the # of deaths in the Whites, my first thought was that the easiest way to substantially reduce that would be to disallow Quebecers from entering. ;)
More seriously, surely having no huts would dissuade many cotton commandos from more than day hiking, and DHs don't allow most people to get overly far from roads in the Whites. Likewise, a system of rangers inspecting would-be entrant's gear (as they did a generation ago in the Smokies, til the potheads bellyached) could work as well.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Do you mean:

1) It should extend south to north-central AL, near B'ham, say?

2) It should extend north to include the land section of the IAT (the ferry section being arguably over the top) , or just to the Canadian border?
Yes and to the land section of the IAT

[e-doc]

Away from Newfound Gap in the Smokies. In fact remove US 441 from the Smokies.:-?

[minnesotasmith]

Yes and to the land section of the IAT

How many total miles would that add, exactly?

And, do you think that it should be set up similiarly to the rest of the AT (aside from much of NH/ME), with a fully-marked mostly easy-to-follow path, trail shelters, marked side paths to water/views/campsites, maps and guidebooks as detailed as the AT had now, etc.?

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

How many total miles would that add, exactly?

And, do you think that it should be set up similiarly to the rest of the AT (aside from much of NH/ME), with a fully-marked mostly easy-to-follow path, trail shelters, marked side paths to water/views/campsites, maps and guidebooks as detailed as the AT had now, etc.?Unsure of how many miles it would add, but it would make the AT comparable to the PCT. As for adding the 'improvements' currently found on the AT - I would like to the AT become a more like the CDT and PCT - fewer blazes, hostels, huts, shelters and a trail hiker with emphasis on the wilderness experience instead of on the socializing, drinking and town stays.

[minnesotasmith]

fewer blazes, hostels, huts, shelters and a trail hiker with emphasis on the wilderness experience instead of on the socializing, drinking and town stays.

A thought on the trail towns, especially the motels, pizza parlors and other restaurants, bars, and people to buy pot from there: those services tend to keep the less-motivated off the trail a lot, and to run them out of money sooner rather than later. It takes a while on average, yes, but arguably those businesses go a long way toward weeding out such hikers, and making the rest of the Trail culled down to more like what you'd like to see in the way of hiker types.

Robert Service described IMO superbly how trail towns weed out would-be backwoodsmen nearly as well as the privations and trials of the actual wilderness:

"...or else in the tented town
Seeking a drunkard's solace, sinking and sinking down;
Steeped in the slime at the bottom, dead to a decent world,
Lost 'mid the human flotsam, far on the frontier hurled;
In the camp at the bend of the river, with its dozen saloons aglare,
Its gambling dens ariot, its gramophones all ablare;
Crimped with the crimes of a city, sin-ridden and bridled with lies,
In the hush of my mountained vastness, in the flush of my midnight skies.
Plague-spots, yet tools of my purpose, so natheless I suffer them thrive,
Crushing my Weak in their clutches, that only my Strong may survive."

See how I believe that works?

[ed bell]

Yeah, you really gotta watch those pizza parlors.:)

[minnesotasmith]

Yeah, you really gotta watch those pizza parlors.:)

Compare a young hiker dropping 30 bucks for pizza and beer in ONE evening vs. me spending 5 bucks for a healthier meal with lots of vegetables from the dollar store... I'll get to bed sooner, with no hangover the next day to discourage me from hiking, a better night's sleep, less money gone, and a more nutritious meal. Add that up over 20 trail towns.

[fiddlehead]

Unsure of how many miles it would add, but it would make the AT comparable to the PCT. As for adding the 'improvements' currently found on the AT - I would like to the AT become a more like the CDT and PCT - fewer blazes, hostels, huts, shelters and a trail hiker with emphasis on the wilderness experience instead of on the socializing, drinking and town stays.

Unfortunately, instead of the AT becoming more like the CDT, the tendency is going the other way (with the CDT becoming more like the AT.)

The best is to learn to be comfortable without a trail. Lots more true nature that way. But i don't think most AT hikers would be happy with that. They seem to prefer the unwild part of hiking more than the wilderness experience. (what you are talking about FD: hostels, hotels, shelters, pizza delivery, etc.) (hell they even have someone waiting to give them a ride across a river) :)

I say leave the AT alone. (with a few exceptions) It is what it is and many prefer it.
If you seek more adventure, there's lots of good trails all over the world.

[fiddlehead]

Compare a young hiker dropping 30 bucks for pizza and beer in ONE evening vs. me spending 5 bucks for a healthier meal with lots of vegetables from the dollar store... I'll get to bed sooner, with no hangover the next day to discourage me from hiking, a better night's sleep, less money gone, and a more nutritious meal. Add that up over 20 trail towns.

I'm glad you said "young hiker". I might've taken it pretty hard if you asked me to compare myself to you MS (and your canned baked beans from dollar general.) :)

[ed bell]

What about massage parlors?:)

[minnesotasmith]

I'm glad you said "young hiker". I might've taken it pretty hard if you asked me to compare myself to you MS (and your canned baked beans from dollar general.) :)

I don't care for canned baked beans. They taste nasty without improvements impractical on the Trail. When I'm going to eat beans in trail towns during hikes, I prefer to get one can of kidney beans/butter beans/black beans, rinse the salt out, and also knock off a can of sardines in water, a can of greens (spinach or asparagus), a can of peas (unsalted as a rule), some fruit (fresh or low-sugar canned), with perhaps a quart of skim milk or orange juice.

Out of curiousity, how much of the AT have you done at one time or another? I'm not trying to be a wiseacre; I genuinely don't remember what you've said on this, and would like to know where you're coming from.

[minnesotasmith]

What about massage parlors?:)

A subcategory of pink-blazing, and we all know how THAT lowers the odds of successfully completing a thruhike...

[ed bell]

Ice-cream parlors?:-?

[Sly]

2) The huts are IMO a major contributor to the high visitor load in the Whites. Many here think that # should go down to preserve the Whites' natural condition better. Presuming you agree with the current visitor #s being excessive, what would you suggest instead to accomplish that?


Didn't you stay at nearly everyone for FREE giving some stupid talk? You have a lot of balls boy. If they're so bad, you should have avoided them.

[fiddlehead]

I don't care for canned baked beans. They taste nasty without improvements impractical on the Trail. When I'm going to eat beans in trail towns during hikes, I prefer to get one can of kidney beans/butter beans/black beans, rinse the salt out, and also knock off a can of sardines in water, a can of greens (spinach or asparagus), a can of peas (unsalted as a rule), some fruit (fresh or low-sugar canned), with perhaps a quart of skim milk or orange juice.

Out of curiousity, how much of the AT have you done at one time or another? I'm not trying to be a wiseacre; I genuinely don't remember what you've said on this, and would like to know where you're coming from.

If it's important to you how many miles i have under my belt, suffice it to say: more than you!

[Sly]

Out of curiousity, how much of the AT have you done at one time or another? I'm not trying to be a wiseacre; I genuinely don't remember what you've said on this, and would like to know where you're coming from.

LOL... Fiddlehead has done the AT at least TWICE, as well as most of the Triple Crown TWICE and you want to know where he's coming from? :rolleyes:

[clured]

I thought the NOBO descent off Garfield in the Whites was almost irresponsible. The trail quite literally just follows a waterfall down the mountain at one point; now, I'm all for difficult hiking, but I thought the potential for catastrophic injury there was just too high. When I came through I passed a family with two little girls, and watching them try to navigate the boulder scrambles (in the stream, for chrissake) made me really worried.

[minnesotasmith]

Didn't you stay at nearly everyone for FREE giving some stupid talk? You have a lot of balls boy. If they're so bad, you should have avoided them.

1) I also swept floors and washed windows at a couple of huts, being told I did a better job on the latter than the vast majority of other thrus doing WFS. I was determined that I would try to give fair value for the food and lodging, whether I was cleaning or speaking. I did not give talks everywhere (twice did not, including at Long Lake hut).

2) If public speaking is so easy, why do most people hate and fear doing it? Why are speakers paid sometimes 5 digits of $ to do it, if they do it well? Why did the hut croos jump at having a master's-level geologist talk about what geological processes formed the Whites, aside from the fact that the resident hut naturalists routinely didn't know squat about geology by their own admission?

BTW, re the talk on thruhiking I gave at Galehead, which I did in front of over a dozen thruhikers and over 25 paying guests/staff, even hikers who disliked me afterwards told me I did a good job and was fair to everyone. I also was subsequently informed by the croo chief that my speaking had earned me the right to sleep inside, when previously due to all the thruhikers there ahead of me only the porch was available. Seems to me they regarded my ability to do public speaking on geology and/or thruhiking to be more valuable than one more propellor of brooms.

3) The huts are part of how the Whites are now. I was being pragmatically realistic and trying to follow the rules there by making use of them as I did. Just BC I would prefer they be replaced by standard doesn't mean I was hypocritical in accepting the current situation, just rational.

[mrc237]

I ain't god nor do i want to be but i'd like to change the trail so it goes past the INN AT THE LONG TRAIL once again

[minnesotasmith]

LOL... Fiddlehead has done the AT at least TWICE, as well as most of the Triple Crown TWICE and you want to know where he's coming from? :rolleyes:

I did not know what his hiking background was, and believed that having that information would help me understand his take on things better.

When did he thruhike last, out of curiousity?

[Sly]

When did he thruhike last, out of curiousity?

2002 from October through February.

[wakapak]

........3) The huts are part of how the Whites are now. I was being pragmatically realistic and trying to follow the rules there by making use of them as I did. Just BC I would prefer they be replaced by standard doesn't mean I was hypocritical in accepting the current situation, just rational.

The huts are part of how the Whites have been since the early 1900's when some of the first ones were built....like i had said earlier, long before the AT was ever there....

[mrc237]

Little "Flunkys" do work for stay!!

[max patch]

I think its a shame that the AT bypasses Gulf Hagas.

I prefer the Mau-Har Trail over the Three Ridges.

I wish the AT went directly to Monson like it used to do before it was relocated back in the 80s.

I think the original route of the AT off of Springer is much superior than where it goes now.

[mrc237]

NICE post MAX

[Sly]

NICE post MAX

Well, except for the last (I'm not sure of another trail off Springer) you can hike as you please.

[Lone Wolf]

Well, except for the last (I'm not sure of another trail off Springer) you can hike as you please.

i remember it well

[Hikerhead]

i remember it well

Would that be where the BMT is now?

[Sly]

i remember it well

Where did it go that made it better? GA mountains are GA mountains.

[Sleepy the Arab]

Didn't you do a funny riff on the PUDS before Moreland Gap shelter?
I laughed and laughed when I read that...

I've heard Bob Peoples mention it too. There's isn't a copy "out there" by any chance, is there?

Yes. Yes I did. But I didn't have to be a god to help reroute that section...

There are copies out there, but they are sanitized versions. I've searched and searched for the original journal page - even contacting the TEHCC - but I think it is lost to time.

[rickb]

I thought the NOBO descent off Garfield in the Whites was almost irresponsible. The trail quite literally just follows a waterfall down the mountain at one point; now, I'm all for difficult hiking, but I thought the potential for catastrophic injury there was just too high. When I came through I passed a family with two little girls, and watching them try to navigate the boulder scrambles (in the stream, for chrissake) made me really worried.

As for the little kids, don't worry too much. Heck, Weary has taken his (then) 5-year old up Katahdin with no ill effect.

[the_iceman]

Keeping only the great shelters and skipping the damn rocks.

[tina.anderson]

I would re-route the trail from Harpers Ferry right through Washington DC-then east through Bagdad, then back west through Texas, north past Hillary Clintons office in New York then back to Herpers ferry to split north or south to the origional trail. That way we can at last justify all that political bulls*it we all (myself included) put on this great hiking forum when we should be talking about hiking. Of course I enjoy the political bulls*it so my reroute would justify my posts.:-?

Haha, I would like to see that route too. Seriously, what's with all the political talk on here? I know it's an election year but I am surprised at how many people want to talk politics, not just on this forum, but in general.

[DiamondDoug]

reroute the AT back to Daicey Pond


Amen to that. I'm sitting here gazing at the ATC 50th anniversary picture, framed and hanging in my office. Taken from Daicey Pond. I think it was a crime to have moved the trail away from this spot. What's next for Mainers; bypassing Abol Bridge?

[earlyriser26]

I would get rid of the climb up Pond mountain in TN. 2,000 foot climb for what? Just follow the stream around the mountain. I would also bring back all the firetowers. Get rid of the rocks and have the trail go over Sugarloaf in Maine vs. Crocker (When I started hiking the AT the trail was over Sugarloaf). switching to Crocker in a word was a CROCK.

[Jack Tarlin]

Personally, I kinda hate the northern end of Virginia. That "roller coaster" thing over countless hills with no views to speak of.....that always struck me as kinda pointless.

Also, the 400-degree death march across the fields after leaving Boiling Springs is another award winner.

Likewise, what's up with the Trail in Duncannon? I'd bring it back down to Market Street.....that way, you go right by the Doyle, the Post Office, several good restaurants, TrailAngelMary's house, and the really great ice cream shop at the far end of town.

Just a few off the top of my head.....

Oh, and this is sacrilege, but I think the Trail should follow the Virginia Creeper Trail out of Damascus. It's easier, LOTS prettier, has cool places to swim or camp, and half the hikers are taking it already!!

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

I would paint all the blazes blue and let the hikers decide which of the alternatives available to use.

[Lone Wolf]

i would re-route the AT out of Baxter Park and the Smokys

yup. still feel the same way

[Blue Jay]

Compare a young hiker dropping 30 bucks for pizza and beer in ONE evening vs. me spending 5 bucks for a healthier meal with lots of vegetables from the dollar store... I'll get to bed sooner, with no hangover the next day to discourage me from hiking, a better night's sleep, less money gone, and a more nutritious meal.

Yes, that is true, however only a tiny percentage of the population of the entire world, is even close to being as boring as you are.

[Blue Jay]

Out of curiousity, how much of the AT have you done at one time or another? I'm not trying to be a wiseacre; I genuinely don't remember what you've said on this, and would like to know where you're coming from.

Now this is funny. You've done the trail once and you preach to thruhikers.
I followed you thru Mass. and Vermont and you were THE most hated hiker for that year. Every single hiker had a story about you. That is what you are expert at, you should give talks on that.

[Bearpaw88]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?

There is an unnamed hill/mountain right before Brown Fork Gap Shelter coming out of the NOC that is insanely pointless. I like the climb out of the NOC, but that crap was nuts. Straight up and full of Teflon coated leaves. We called it ass ram ridge.

[Wise Old Owl]

Here is an interesting thought, I would like to see someone walk the ORIGINAL government trail with a GPS to show how much the current path has changed! Then we can compare to the current one I have on Google Earth.

[Bearpaw88]

Here is an interesting thought, I would like to see someone walk the ORIGINAL government trail with a GPS to show how much the current path has changed! Then we can compare to the current one I have on Google Earth.

I heard a rumor on trail that someone was attempting to hike the trail as it was in the 50's. It could be B.S. who knows?

[Wise Old Owl]

I would relo PA. Keep the trail along the Appalachians to the west a bit longer. Up towards Williamsport, across the little Grand Canyon, thru New York, where you could hit a 4000 footer (name escapes me at the moment) and then hook back up in Ct. or Mass.


That is a very interesting Idea.

[notorius tic]

:eek:
I'd Re-route the State of Pennsylvania thru the Sierras instead, but that's wishful thinking :jump

I was pretty fed up with the last 15-20 miles before Kincorra with the many ups and downs not present on the profile map, but then again, Bob Peoples put those in and he works mighty hard. LOL I AM FEELING THE PAIN STILL AS I TYPE.... OOOOOOOOOOOOOO those SHIN SPLINTS:eek:

[rafe]

Away from noisy highways.... maybe I-84 in New York. Or that &@$+#%$ race track near Falls Village, CT.

[Bear Cables]

So far, (only done the southern 368 miles) the only reroute I would do is the 2 - 3 miles before & after Stecoah gap. Haven't those people heard of switchbacks? The AT went STRAIGHT UP and STRAIGHT DOWN, even tho there was ample room.


Doctari.

Yep! That the part I was thinking about rerouting. Particularly the last 1 1/2 miles UP to Brown Fork!. There was an entry in the Brown Fork journal,"Gotta give it to NC. They're so bad a** they don't even need switchbacks!" Another one read, " A first for me...I cursed the mountain and gave it the finger!" We felt much better knowing others had struggled as we did.

[ki0eh]

Likewise, what's up with the Trail in Duncannon? I'd bring it back down to Market Street.....that way, you go right by the Doyle, the Post Office, several good restaurants, TrailAngelMary's house, and the really great ice cream shop at the far end of town.


Plus the fire tower! (Relatively recent addition to the "Sled Works" http://www.sledworks.com/tower/index.html ) Good point, I can't quite fathom why someone wanted to paint the extra blazes to move it over to High St. Anyone know why? Can't be an acquisition issue since both are in town...? :confused:

[notorius tic]

I got a good idea lets reroute it from My front door Siesta Key to Myaka it would be a Aqua blaze out in the ocean to the gulf to the Manatee river then a hike to the Green Swamp then to Ocala an then picking up the FLT to Springer.. WOW thats a Journey.. Feeling like Huck Fin just thinking about it.

[modiyooch]

can't bypass Palmerton or that site. It's like your on another planet or out west when crossing that mountain. I like the town of Palmerton.

[TOW]

You aint here reading this forum if you dont love the AT but surely there are some of us who would re-route at least a mile or two if we could. For me it would be the 3 miles of rocks before Doc's Knob Shelter...it was a 21 mile day for me and those last few miles of rocks humbled me.
So if you could where would it be?
Where the trail comes across Railroad Avenue here in Damascus I would reroute to forth street where it would meet the trail again on Douglas. I would also make sure that the trail would go right across the very porch that is connected to Lone Wolf's house.

I'd laugh my arse off!

[rafe]

can't bypass Palmerton or that site. It's like your on another planet or out west when crossing that mountain. I like the town of Palmerton.

Agreed.... feels like a freaking war zone, or something out of a bad Mel Gibson move (sorry for the redundancy.) Made for an interesting afternoon.

[Odd Thomas]

I'd annex the Finger Lakes Trail :D

[Tin Man]

Away from noisy highways.... maybe I-84 in New York. Or that &@$+#%$ race track near Falls Village, CT.

That's Lime Rock. Home to many local racers, gangster racers, and even Paul Newman racing back in his racing days. It's pretty cool when you get down close. You cannot see the entire course from any one spot. Turns are wicked and there is a decent hill to go over. Lots of car clubs come and motor around the loop for a day. There is nothing like the sound of a bunching buzzing german cars running through the gears.

Um, what's the cursing about anyway? The Trail passes lots of interesting spots; this is one of them and it goes by quickly.

[rafe]

There is nothing like the sound of a bunching buzzing german cars running through the gears.

Whatever floats your boat. But not what I want or expect to hear on the AT.

[Tin Man]

Whatever floats your boat. But not what I want or expect to hear on the AT.

Lots of sounds of human activity along the AT. And it's a lot shorter and a nice change of pace from listening to trucks or trains or power lines on so many other sections of the trail.

[ki0eh]

I'd annex the Finger Lakes Trail :D

http://www.greateasterntrail.org

[rafe]

Lots of sounds of human activity along the AT. And it's a lot shorter and a nice change of pace from listening to trucks or trains or power lines on so many other sections of the trail.

Yes, there's lots of traffic noise on the AT, and I'm not too happy about any of it. But that's a battle that's been fought for 70-plus years now. And the race track in CT isn't the only one -- there's another (I discovered --- again by its noise) near Harpers Ferry. I'm hoping that my PCT section this summer will be a quieter and much wilder experience. FWIW, trains and their noises don't bother me quite as much for some reason. People don't drive trains around (even fine German trains) in tight circles just for kicks.

[Odd Thomas]

Yes, there's lots of traffic noise on the AT, and I'm not too happy about any of it. But that's a battle that's been fought for 70-plus years now. And the race track in CT isn't the only one -- there's another (I discovered --- again by its noise) near Harpers Ferry. I'm hoping that my PCT section this summer will be a quieter and much wilder experience. FWIW, trains and their noises don't bother me quite as much for some reason. People don't drive trains around in tight circles just for kicks.

besides, trains are cool!:D

Can't wait until all cars are electric.

[Lone Wolf]

People don't drive trains around (even fine German trains) in tight circles just for kicks.

most people don't sit around in circles smokin' dope just for kicks. i bet that's a favorite pastime of yours

[Tin Man]

Yes, there's lots of traffic noise on the AT, and I'm not too happy about any of it. But that's a battle that's been fought for 70-plus years now. And the race track in CT isn't the only one -- there's another (I discovered --- again by its noise) near Harpers Ferry. I'm hoping that my PCT section this summer will be a quieter and much wilder experience. FWIW, trains and their noises don't bother me quite as much for some reason. People don't drive trains around (even fine German trains) in tight circles just for kicks.

Well, the AT is not in the wildnerness. It is in our backyard and that ain't gonna change. I hope you find the noise level to your liking on the PCT.

I am sure the folks driving in tight circles don't mind you hiking near them with a tight ass, so why do you care about them?

[MOWGLI]

Well, the AT is not in the wildnerness.

Actually, there are quite a number of federally designated wilderness areas that the trail passes through. The ironic part is, the iconic 100 Mile Wilderness isn't really a wilderness at all. It's a beautiful, but heavily roaded working forest.

[Tin Man]

Actually, there are quite a number of federally designated wilderness areas that the trail passes through. The ironic part is, the iconic 100 Mile Wilderness isn't really a wilderness at all. It's a beautiful, but heavily roaded working forest.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand the 100 Mile "Wildnerness" trucks make a lot of noise if you catch an area at the wrong date/time.

[rafe]

Actually, there are quite a number of federally designated wilderness areas that the trail passes through. The ironic part is, the iconic 100 Mile Wilderness isn't really a wilderness at all. It's a beautiful, but heavily roaded working forest.

I wonder how the 100-mile has changed in the 17+ years since I hiked it. All I can say is, it was wonderful. Damn near religious. ;) I don't recall seeing or hearing an automobile between Abol Bridge and the highway near Monson.

I really would like to walk it again some time.

[MOWGLI]

I wonder how the 100-mile has changed in the 17+ years since I hiked it. All I can say is, it was wonderful. Damn near religious. ;) I don't recall seeing or hearing an automobile between Abol Bridge and the highway near Monson.
.

I heard feller bunchers on each of the 5 days I spent there. I enjoyed myself thoroughly though.

[Frolicking Dinosaurs]

Can't wait until all cars are electric.Good point - electric powered vehicles would cause less noise pollution in wilderness areas.

[rafe]

I am sure the folks driving in tight circles don't mind you hiking near them with a tight ass, so why do you care about them?

To paraphrase: because folks who fart in my my presence don't mind my breathing, why should I mind their farts.

[Tin Man]

To paraphrase: because folks who fart in my my presence don't mind my breathing, why should I mind their farts.

Clever. :rolleyes:

Now get back to work in cube town. :)

[Ender]

I think the AT should be relocated to run all the way up the breakdown lane of Interstate 95. It's not in the wilderness anyway, so why bother even pretending? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Tin Man]

I think the AT should be relocated to run all the way up the breakdown lane of Interstate 95. It's not in the wilderness anyway, so why bother even pretending? :rolleyes::rolleyes:

Nah. There would be too many more accidents and squished sheeples, dogs and turtles delaying traffic. One Leki through a windshield and the whole trail would be closed for good. ;)