View Full Version : Bad things in the water
brill540
01-23-2012, 14:58
Sorry to make yet another water filter thread, but I'm quite confused here.
Iodine:
This was my first choice. I don't mind the taste, and the crystal form of it will last forever for a cheap price. But I'm often lazy about it, and don't use it, or drink too soon in colder temperatures. The only thing it really helps against is Guardia, as well.
Fabric fiters:
I've owned a bunch of fish tanks growing up as a kid, and the thought of a standard filter sounds scary to me. The slightest bump in the filter will release months of bacteria and dirt that's been trapped back into the water. Not to mention the extra weight,and another 'monthly fee' for the trip.
Ceramic filters:
I don't know anything about these. The Katadyn Mini seems to cost about the same as a normal filter, but lasts 10x longer. But it seems to have a frustratingly low pump rate.
T-Shirt:
The chance of catching Guardia is slim, and even if I catch it, it's likely to go away on it's own. The threat of farm runoff, and other nasty things will still be there no matter what else I use.
Debate? I'm not even sure I have a question. Maybe there's something out there that I've missed.
YohonPetro
01-23-2012, 15:41
Also, UV light. The Steripen kills the creeps in the water too.
I like non-comercial systems because the information tends to be more objective. I bring my water to a boil or near boil, when in doubt, and I'm happy using clothing as a filter if the water isn't that clear. I always boil or near boil if the water isn't clear. For a cold refreshing drink I take my chances in the coldest clearest streams I can find, which are common where I hike. On the AT, or any place I am not familiar with, I would bring a small bottle of that two part aqua-mira stuff or equivalent.
So what's the question?
Treat or don't treat?
How to treat?
You'll get all kinds of answers here.
I think he is just curious about what other options there might be out there, and open discussion.
Here are some options with commentary.
1. Aquamira drops
2. MSR sweet drops
3. Bleach drops (homemade know how to use before using)
The rest
Sterile UV pen (waste of space, batteries, time (if you want to kill everything), also seems like your exposing yourself to some UV too)
MIOXX system (I prefer the taste vs drops, but prefer the weight of drop vs mioxx)
Inline Microfilters (slightly heavier, will wear out, dont treat all microbes) not bad for filtering out chemical tastes though
Standard filters (worst option on AT (and in general IMO), most work with nalgene so you might have to have one which is a negative if you dont want to, will clog).
Gravity filters (nvm this is the worst option)
Salt- yeah some people are crazy
Alcohol- more crazy
Adding other bacteria to hunt and kill the bad bacteria (dont try at home)
Iodine:
This was my first choice. I don't mind the taste, and the crystal form of it will last forever for a cheap price. But I'm often lazy about it, and don't use it, or drink too soon in colder temperatures. The only thing it really helps against is Guardia, as well.
T-Shirt:
The chance of catching Guardia is slim, and even if I catch it, it's likely to go away on it's own. The threat of farm runoff, and other nasty things will still be there no matter what else I use.
Iodine- if your gonna use bad tasting chemical why not use one that works against pretty much everthing like aquamira or bleach.
T-shirt- what does this accomplish, keeps the leaves and sticks out? Are you filtering from stagnant ponds or muddy water. Seems useless.
Your not exposed to UV from a Streipen unless your doing something with it you're not suppose to!
brill540
01-23-2012, 18:26
So what's the question?
Treat or don't treat?
How to treat?
You'll get all kinds of answers here.
Yes. All of those, haha. I'm leaning toward not treating, and tossing in some iodine when it's still water. But I don't know if this would actually be effective, or just an effort to make myself feel better.
Iodine- if your gonna use bad tasting chemical why not use one that works against pretty much everthing like aquamira or bleach.
T-shirt- what does this accomplish, keeps the leaves and sticks out? Are you filtering from stagnant ponds or muddy water. Seems useless.
Mosquito larva come to mind. Had a few in my bottle last time I did a test hike. I drank them because it was all I had. Poor creatures.
But yeah, just mud and twigs and such. Plan on starting a hike this March, so the water source is whatever I find.
Your not exposed to UV from a Streipen unless your doing something with it you're not suppose to!
I have never used this steripen or similar product, just seems like it would since as I understand it you are putting a UV lightbulb in a clear water bottle and waiting 30-60 minutes. If you can see this light you are exposed.
blackbird04217
01-23-2012, 20:15
You wait 30-60 seconds*, and it is claimed that the UV produced isn't strong enough to penetrate plastic...
Seeing the UV light does not equal harmful exposure.
You're exposed to UV light every day.
The Steripen does not emit enough light to penetrate the container (I use a 1L Gatoraid bottle).
The light won't come on unless the unit is submerged in water.
You can find the Steripen directions online at http://www.steripen.com/
(http://www.steripen.com/)It's worth looking in to, I used one for half my thru-hike.
Most thru hikers use AquaMira. You'll soon understand why after being on the trail a couple weeks.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2012, 10:24
Most thru hikers use AquaMira. You'll soon understand why after being on the trail a couple weeks.why is that?
My own take:
http://www.pmags.com/a-drop-in-the-water-bottle-water-treament-methods
brian039
01-24-2012, 10:41
I like Aqua-Mira. I've used filters and they are a pain, prone to breaking, and freeze up on cold days. I knew people who used Steri-pens on my thru and they had issues with them and ended up ditching them. Springs are good to drink from without treatment for the most part but treat it if they are slightly questionable to you. Instead of your sweaty T-shirt use the good old bandanna to pre-filter the sediment out of silty water sources. New England isn't a bad place to have a filter because some of your water sources are ponds but I did without just fine.
Lone Wolf
01-24-2012, 10:45
Sorry to make yet another water filter thread, but I'm quite confused here.
Iodine:
This was my first choice. I don't mind the taste, and the crystal form of it will last forever for a cheap price. But I'm often lazy about it, and don't use it, or drink too soon in colder temperatures. The only thing it really helps against is Guardia, as well.
Fabric fiters:
I've owned a bunch of fish tanks growing up as a kid, and the thought of a standard filter sounds scary to me. The slightest bump in the filter will release months of bacteria and dirt that's been trapped back into the water. Not to mention the extra weight,and another 'monthly fee' for the trip.
Ceramic filters:
I don't know anything about these. The Katadyn Mini seems to cost about the same as a normal filter, but lasts 10x longer. But it seems to have a frustratingly low pump rate.
T-Shirt:
The chance of catching Guardia is slim, and even if I catch it, it's likely to go away on it's own. The threat of farm runoff, and other nasty things will still be there no matter what else I use.
Debate? I'm not even sure I have a question. Maybe there's something out there that I've missed.
Faith: i have never treated or filtered any water on the AT. never gotten sick either. works for me
why is that?
Because for those hikers who don't want to drink untreated water (like you), it's simple, easy, and doesn't involve batteries.
rusty bumper
01-24-2012, 10:52
I drank water directly out of springs with no treatment, and treated all stream water with Aqua Mira. I never encountered a water source where I had to filter out sediment with a t-shirt or bandanna before drinking. In 5 months of hiking I never had any stomach or intestinal problems.
I drank water directly out of springs with no treatment, and treated all stream water with Aqua Mira. I never encountered a water source where I had to filter out sediment with a t-shirt or bandanna before drinking. In 5 months of hiking I never had any stomach or intestinal problems.
Well then, maybe I ought to take you to Vegas next time I go. You lucky thing.
Blissful
01-24-2012, 14:45
Faith: i have never treated or filtered any water on the AT. never gotten sick either. works for me
You have a Marine gut...
:)
I know two kids who got sick on water in Vermont. That's the state I'd watch with the beaver ponds in the southern half. SO easy to take from a stream flowing across the trail and oyulook to the right and its a beaver pond.
I was disconcerted when I learned Aqua mira may affect the thyroid. I noticed I needed more of my medicine for hypothyroidism after my hike.
Blissful
01-24-2012, 14:46
I drank water directly out of springs with no treatment, and treated all stream water with Aqua Mira. I never encountered a water source where I had to filter out sediment with a t-shirt or bandanna before drinking.
The sediment is really an issue in drought conditions. I faced that in NE>
rocketsocks
01-24-2012, 15:07
I use both ceramic filter and aqua mira,can't take a chance on getting sick,my body doesn't like foreign matter.YMMV
brill540
01-24-2012, 15:18
Thanks for the information, everyone. Have looked up most everything listed here.
I'm between two choices now:
Untreated for springs, and use Aquamira drops (after my iodine is used up) for questionable water sources.
Or this gizmo: Sawyer In-line Water Filter
It claims to not need replacement filters, due to it being some kind of holey plastic instead of a fabric or ceramic. Does anyone here have experience with it? I like the idea of not having to purchase filters, and it's fairly cheap.
A bit bulkier, but if it actually works it would save some money in the long run, since it can be used by two people easier than consumable products.
http://generalecology.com/portablesystem.htm
This is what I use: It's supposed to be the best. It should be for what it cost. I've been using it for 20 years and have never gotten sick on the trail (though I did once before I bought it).
It's worth considering, if weight and bulk are less an issue than protection.
Personally i love my hiker pro katadyn filter. i also carry iodine tablets for back up just in case
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2006/03/24/lowtech_solar_water_purification_it_works.htm Not the quickest way... but it's pretty light. pun intended:banana
Seeing the UV light does not equal harmful exposure.
You're exposed to UV light every day.
The Steripen does not emit enough light to penetrate the container (I use a 1L Gatoraid bottle).
The light won't come on unless the unit is submerged in water.
You can find the Steripen directions online at http://www.steripen.com/
(http://www.steripen.com/)It's worth looking in to, I used one for half my thru-hike.
Yeah, your exposed to a very low amount of UV a day, not the amount that is required to kill bacteria in apparently 60 seconds. We had a UV light in the lab that would kill bacteria on googles and such that worked in about an hour and it was suggested to never operate with the door open. Seems like it would be alot more UV for it to work in 30-60 secs. It just doesnt sound like a great option to me when there are so many better choices.
I was disconcerted when I learned Aqua mira may affect the thyroid. I noticed I needed more of my medicine for hypothyroidism after my hike.
I didnt know that. Try bleach, just 2 drops per liter (unless its super questionable but no more than 3), then wait the same amount that aquamira says. Its the same idea of how most public tap water is treated.
RetroGear
01-24-2012, 20:14
http://generalecology.com/portablesystem.htm
This is what I use: It's supposed to be the best. It should be for what it cost. I've been using it for 20 years and have never gotten sick on the trail (though I did once before I bought it).
It's worth considering, if weight and bulk are less an issue than protection.
I concur. I’m not in love with the weight (and one unadvertised disadvantage of pump filters is that after the first use you’re also lugging around several ounces of water trapped in the filter) or the bulk, but my peace of mind and health are 100% worth it.
[QUOTE=Mags;1243781]My own take:
http://www.pmags.com/a-drop-in-the-water-bottle-water-treament-methods[/QUOTE (http://www.pmags.com/a-drop-in-the-water-bottle-water-treament-methods%5B/QUOTE)]
Re fecal-oral contamination: ever been in a men’s room and noticed how many men don’t wash their hands? And that’s when soap and warm (usually) water are readily available. Now, think about out in the woods, no soap, probably no water … ewww!
The First Need (or whatever you use) won’t do much good unless you (a) keep your hands clean and (b) treat others as if you were Howard Hughes …
I've never treated any of the water I've drank on the AT. A soft stool now and then, but I've never been sick. It might have more to do on my part with drinking out of a dugout well growing up, swimming in
ponds and lakes. As a society we use to all pass protozoa before town and city water treatment was administrated starting in the 1930's. Personally I never liked dipping from a spring with a bunch of hikers
sitting around it with the working end of a water filter floating in the pool as they pumped away, but hikers seem to always gravitate to that sweet pool of water coming directly out of the ground with their filter, instead of a little bit downstream of it. Nonetheless, if I had to filter water I guess I'd either boil it, or use one of those squeeze bottles with a small filter inside of it.
I didnt know that. Try bleach, just 2 drops per liter (unless its super questionable but no more than 3), then wait the same amount that aquamira says. Its the same idea of how most public tap water is treated.
Its not the same. Chlorine dioxide and chlorine are two totally different substances. You should know the differences, so read up here:
http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/J4I1B
Its not the same. Chlorine dioxide and chlorine are two totally different substances. You should know the differences, so read up here:
http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/J4I1B
I thought someone was gonna jump up my *** about that comment. Thats why I said same idea and not the same process. Should I link the reading comprehension thread for you to read up on.
rocketsocks
01-24-2012, 21:12
Its not the same. Chlorine dioxide and chlorine are two totally different substances. You should know the differences, so read up here:
http://postharvest.tfrec.wsu.edu/pages/J4I1Bcool article spokes, thanks did not now why fors and how comes
I thought someone was gonna jump up my *** about that comment. Thats why I said same idea and not the same process. Should I link the reading comprehension thread for you to read up on.
heheheheee..... Bless your heart (ol' Southern term). You're a hoot!
Stats 2012
01-25-2012, 01:29
The literature states that Aquamira is unable to penetrate the relatively thick wall of protozoa like giardia. While it kills bacteria and viruses, it seems that AM isn't really effective against this common ailment. Am I mistaken?
The literature states that Aquamira is unable to penetrate the relatively thick wall of protozoa like giardia. While it kills bacteria and viruses, it seems that AM isn't really effective against this common ailment. Am I mistaken?
Basically the lab tests prove that the chemical in aquamira is effective against giardia and other protozoa but the EPA has not approved this statment. Bottom line it works. Also stay away from ponds, beaver ponds, lakes and rivers.
I used bleach. two drops in a small Gatorade bottle. Wait 30 minutes. When I got to a water source, I drank up the bottle I'd been carrying, or whatever was left in it, and then refilled one or two bottles depending on distance to next source - so the 30 minute wait didn't matter.
This worked well for me and was super-cheap, and I didn't need to have stuff sitting around in bottle caps that can get knocked over, like with Aqua Mira.
I'm very easy about water taste though, and didn't notice anything, but more sensitive tasters may feel differently.