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minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 10:12
This is NOT complete. I know there are things I will add, and more I will drop. This list is where I'm at with figuring out what nonfood gear to buy and take on my upcoming section hikes, which I see most of all as dry runs for my planned thru-hike of the AT next year. Comments are invited here.
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Gear List

Major Gear
Backpack – one of:
Gregory: Acadia or Forester
Arcteryx: Khamsin (52?)
Granite Gear: Nimbus Ozone or Nimbus Latitude
P2 pack (don’t remember manufacturer offhand, but is about 3 pounds, with over 4000 cubic inches capacity; is sold at Neels Gap)

Sleeping bag (for nonwinter hiking):
synthetic nonmummy (rectangular or semi-rectangular) with zipper, 20o F; something like Marmot Pounder or North Face Fission? (0o to –25o+ degree bag for winter)

Silk liner for sleeping bag

Footwear -- bringing all three:
lightweight Gore-Tex material boots/trail runners (would definitely be in boots north of southern Pennsylvania state line)
New Balance running shoes (high-end)
camp shoes (ala “Crocs”)

Tent:
Henry Shires: gray Virga 2 tarptent with beak, sewed-in floor, connected fine netting for lower walls, extra poles/stakes/lines, Tyvek groundcloth cut to fit put underneath to extend tentfloor life
(fully enclosed tent for winter; type uncertain)
hammer for tent stakes: use loose rock (start looking for in advance of stopping for night)

Stove:
lightweight alcohol stove (3-season) made to order; will use white gas stove in winter hiking such as Sunto/SVEA 123
windscreen
ethyl and/or anhydrous isopropyl alcohol fuel for summer; methyl/ethyl mix for fall (from automotive department at ChinaMart)

Pack cover/poncho:
having Packa custom-made in dull green color (since gray/camouflage not available color options)

Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
Clips to hold pads atop each other (REI sells)
Pillow: use stuff sack with clothes

Water
Katadyne ceramic filter pump (already own)
(2) ½ - 1 gallon plastic juice bottles (always have); one labeled for water prefiltered with coffee filters, but not run thru Katadyne yet; Nalgene bottle with attached lid possibly better
1 ½- gallon plastic thermos (glass vacuum bottle type too likely to break on Trail) for cold/hot drinks (already own)
2.5 gallon collapsible clear plastic water container (still deciding on brand/model)
hiker-sized Aqua-Mira chlorine dioxide water treatment set (backup to filter) (already have)
coffee filters for prefiltering water, before Katadyne/Aqua Mira
plastic food-grade funnel – same use as coffee filters
stainless steel (no moving parts) water distillation device – won’t bring on Trail in near future; need wood fire for (already own; ~1.5 L size)

Lighting
(2) LED headlamps (have 1, been using it on night training walks)
~3 spare sets of AAA batteries for headlamps (3 batteries/set); more needed in winter, due to fewer hours daylight, reduced battery life in cooler temps
penlight? (desirable if uses AAA size for battery compatibility)
small electric lamp? (for night book reading/journal writing)

Cooking
Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages
(2) nesting Rubbermaid clear plastic containers with lids for leftovers/cooked-ahead meals (inc. from town stops/Trail magic)
tiny dish soap bottle
tiny dish brush
green scrub pad (cut in half)
aluminum foil
metal tool to lift pot? (don’t know correct term)
Lexan spork
A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? (backup to spork, plus can give other hikers)
1 roll paper towels
Ziploc bags (1 gallon and 1 pint size, best quality)
pot cozy
BEAR BAG! (silnylon, 20+ pound capacity); attach clip to it?
rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)
titanium/heat-resistant thick plastic pint drinking cup?
waterproof strike-anywhere matches (may just dip in wax)
regular kitchen wooden matches
fire starter stuff (birthday candles, drier lint, magnesium strip and/or flint and steel; note cooking oil/stove fuel can also be used for this)

Anti-Bug
head net (already have 2); bring 1 on section hikes, 2 on thru-hike
nylon gloves (“aviator” gloves) when too hot/wet for garden gloves as needed; good against sun in open spaces, too (used extensively in past hiking out West as inner climbing glove liner during journal writing in open)
one NEW regular-size can Deep Woods OFF (leave out in winter outside of South)

Hygiene
motel soap
motel shampoo
motel conditioner
small plastic comb
one disposable plastic razor
small set fingernail clippers (help with splinters, too)
two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too)
ethyl alcohol hand sanitizer plastic bottle?
small individually-wrapped alcohol towlettes
shower booties if obtainable; otherwise, may bring thin flip-flops? (to minimize Athlete’s Foot from public showers at hostel/truck stop showers, and as backup to Crocs as camp footwear)
Rubbing/ethyl alcohol to sanitize socks and help them dry?
sock/shoe drying device I'm designing (not finished yet)

First Aid/Medical
nasal spray
small tweezers
steroid cream tube for skin
band-aids
moleskin (have) ((blisters)
“second-skin” spray? (blisters/abrasions)
flat gauze pads ~3 or 4” square for inner thigh abrasions from walking
tiny plastic bottle suntan lotion (SPF 20+)
chap stick (Vaseline brand?)
superglue? (skin fissures; good for gear repair, too)
aspirin (take daily anyway)
Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
White surgical tape (blisters and hold bandages/band-aids in place, esp. in wet conditions)
Imodium anti-diarrhea pills

Clothing (much more in winter)
rain shell pants (single-layer nylon); Capilene/Frogg Toggs?
2 bandannas (not blue/violet/purple color, so UV penetrates less; red ideal)
“boonie” hat – wide-brimmed cloth hat (already have, hiked with extensively)
1 pair bicycle shorts (Spandex)
1 pair regular semi-athletic shorts (town, mild weather, bike shorts backup)
2 pair synthetic-fabric underwear
1 thin jacket (nylon outer, paper-thin synthetic liner; have one like this already I use for working outside)
1 cotton T-shirt for town and dry mild days (dark color so hides stains)
1 pair down booties for night sleeping/in tent (REI sells)
1 thermal top? (like thermal underwear) 100% synthetic
1 thermal bottom/thin sweatpants? A/A
gloves
4 – 6 pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?)
thin summer gaiters (longer and thicker for winter) (already have)
two eyeglasses straps (e.g., Croakies brand)
light-colored single-layer nylon windbreaker (esp. for sun)

Records
camera (~1 27-shot disposable camera per 5 hiking days for section hikes for now; 12-oz. 35-mm digital camera in hip holster for thru-hike/ASAP)
water-resistant journal book (like orange geologic field journal)
pencils (mechanical pencils malfunction too often to trust IMO)
tiny pencil sharpener (pocketknife backup)
camera hip holster

Resources (maps/guides/numbers)
Georgia wilderness areas map from Wal-Mart (in sporting goods by lake maps for fishing)
Printed list of distances from www (GA AT club site?)
Wingfoot’s book
Shuttle contact list
Appalachian Trail Conference trail guides (for GA/NC to start)
Appalachian Trail Data Book
Thru-hiker’s Handbook (formerly “Philosopher’s Guide”)
GA state highway map (highway welcome station)
NC state highway map (A/A)
calling card numbers
phone numbers for family/work/friends
State geological survey quadrangle maps for certain sections, e.g., Mt. Rogers/Whites/Katahdin (excess cut away); probably not an issue for section hikes pre-Mt. Rogers
foliage/fauna identification handbook? (have not figured out good one yet)

Miscellaneous
noncollapsible light-colored medium-sized umbrella with emergency-blanket material on outside (taped or spray-glued in place)
book to read
semi-disposable earplugs (shelters, hostels) (have from work)
vitamin pills (already take daily; need biologic-origin source)
nonmercury thermometer (100 to –40o range) probably only on thru-/winter hikes
hiking stick – oak, fairly thick at base, 6’+ long, pad and strap where hold
Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has
hip holster for bear spray
small pocketknife (have)
tiny scissors (sewing, surgical/duct tape, etc.)
parachute cord
~30’ duct tape (the good stuff – from air conditioner supply store)
carabiners to hold zippers together
safety pins (repairs, hold bandanna to hat vs. sun)
plastic garbage bags
1-2 contractor bags (heavy-duty yard bags) for inner pack liner
~2 stuff (compression) sacks (silnylon, from REI)
2 disposable sunglasses (like clip-ons, but larger)
reversible hitchhiking sign that says “To Town” and “To Trail” (material?)
necklace money pouch
tiny bottle eyeglasses/camera lens cleaner? (will probably just use soap & water until have digital camera)
MONEY (much of it as American Express money orders)
debit card for thru-hike
spare eyeglasses (thru-hike only)
washtub? --cut 2.5 gallon distilled water jug) (thru-hike during summer only)
pack of mousetraps? -- when using shelters only; possibly only worthwhile during winter/rainy spells when shelters most desirable to use
Beano/Gas-X (not for ME personally; OTHER users of shelters should bring) ;)

hikerjohnd
03-16-2005, 10:21
Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
Clips to hold pads atop each other (REI sells)

2 sleeping pads?

Jaybird
03-16-2005, 10:23
WOW! this is a HECKUVALIST!

arent you gonna visit any trail towns?

i'd leave some of this stuff @ home...or you'll be carrying 100lbs.

one thing i notice is you have several lights/lamps listed....leave all, but your headlamp @ home.


you wont need more than 15-20ft of chute cord.

you wont need more than the 1.3 ltr pot...leave the rest @ home.

for HYGIENE...take handi-wipes...(flushable, bio-degradable)...if u must take soap...take the liquid, bio-degradable stuff...

deoderant is optional...

seems like your list can be trimmed greatly...but, you'll learn after you take all this with you in a pack, on your pack, & ON YOUR FEET for a few miles..


good luck!

see u out there APR 28-May 20 HOt SPrings, NC to Pearsiburg, VA

rpettit
03-16-2005, 10:38
I'm not an ultra-lighter, and I still think that you are carrying to much stuff. I section hike only, and my 5 day pack weight is 36 lbs. Visit the light weight backpacking sites and view some gear lists, you can find many ideas on reducing pack weight.

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 10:39
1) Hikerjohnd, according to Mueser, many thru-hikers carry both pads. It is paramount to me that I sleep well after a long day hiking, or else I'm not worth a cr*p the next day, no matter how light my packweight.


2) Jaybird, this list is designed to cover functions possibly useful on the Trail. I know that there are duplications, such as the soaps that can be reduced in number. The idea is to have considered a concern before leaving something out.

I figure on eventually having a base packweight under 30 pounds, not counting food and water. I'm definitely not there yet, no question. Any other specific items on my list you would take out (or add), please say.

No, I'm not bringing deodorant on the AT. :D

Dances with Mice
03-16-2005, 10:53
Any other specific items on my list you would take out (or add), please say.A compass?

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 11:00
I had a compass on my written list, but it didn't make it onto the typed one. As a former Boy Scout, I always carry one (tied to my pack so I can't drop it and lose it) even on day hikes. Thanks for catching that one, Dances with Mice.

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 11:01
Did you take a look at my list of food ideas I posted just after I posted this rough draft gear list?

java
03-16-2005, 11:08
Major Gear
Backpack – one of:
<s style="">Gregory: </s><st1:place><s style="">Acadia</s></st1:place><s style=""> or Forester
Arcteryx: Khamsin (52?)
</s>Granite Gear: Nimbus Ozone or Nimbus Latitude
P2 pack (don’t remember manufacturer offhand, but is about 3 pounds, with over 4000 cubic inches capacity; is sold at Neels Gap)

Sleeping bag (for nonwinter hiking):
synthetic nonmummy (rectangular or semi-rectangular) with zipper, 20o F; something like Marmot Pounder or North Face Fission? (0o to –25o+ degree bag for winter)

Silk liner for sleeping bag

Footwear -- bringing all three:
<s style="">lightweight Gore-Tex material boots/trail runners (would definitely be in boots north of southern Pennsylvania state line)</s>
New Balance running shoes (high-end)
camp shoes (ala “Crocs”)

Tent:
Henry Shires: gray Virga 2 tarptent with beak, sewed-in floor, connected fine netting for lower walls, extra poles/stakes/lines, <s style="">Tyvek groundcloth cut to fit put underneath to extend tentfloor life
</s>(fully enclosed tent for winter; type uncertain)
hammer for tent stakes: use loose <s style="">rock (start looking for in advance of stopping for night)
</s>
Stove:
lightweight alcohol stove (3-season) made to order; <s style="">will use white gas stove in winter hiking such as Sunto/SVEA 123
</s>windscreen
ethyl and/or anhydrous isopropyl alcohol fuel for summer; methyl/ethyl mix for fall (from automotive department at ChinaMart)

Pack cover/poncho:
having Packa custom-made in dull green color (since gray/camouflage not available color options)

Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
<s style="">Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
Clips to hold pads atop each other (REI sells)
</s>Pillow: use stuff sack with clothes

Water
<s style="">Katadyne ceramic filter pump (already own)
</s>(2) ½ - 1 gallon plastic juice bottles (always have); <s style="">one labeled for water prefiltered with coffee filters, but not run thru Katadyne yet; Nalgene bottle with attached lid possibly better
1 ½- gallon plastic thermos (glass vacuum bottle type too likely to break on Trail) for cold/hot drinks (already own)
</s>2.5 gallon collapsible clear plastic water container (still deciding on brand/model)
hiker-sized Aqua-Mira chlorine dioxide water treatment set (backup to filter) (already have)
<s style="">coffee filters for prefiltering water, before Katadyne/Aqua Mira
plastic food-grade funnel – same use as coffee filters
stainless steel (no moving parts) water distillation device – won’t bring on Trail in near future; need wood fire for (already own; ~1.5 L size)
</s>
Lighting
<s style="">(2)</s> LED headlamp <s style="">(have 1, been using it on night training walks)</s>
<s style="">~3 spare sets of AAA batteries for headlamps (3 batteries/set);</s> more needed in winter, due to fewer hours daylight, reduced battery life in cooler temps
<s style="">penlight? (desirable if uses AAA size for battery compatibility)
small electric lamp? (for night book reading/journal writing)
</s>
Cooking
Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food Boil water in same pot for drinking, you can bring a mug to drink out of.<s style="">
</s><s style="">Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages</s>
<s style="">(2) nesting Rubbermaid clear plastic containers with lids for leftovers/cooked-ahead meals (inc. from town stops/Trail magic)
</s>tiny dish soap bottle
<s style="">tiny dish brush
</s>green scrub pad (cut in half)
<s style="">aluminum foil</s>
metal tool to lift pot? (don’t know correct term) pot lifter
Lexan spork
<s style="">A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? (backup to spork, plus can give other hikers)
1 roll paper towels </s>Now that’s a crazy idea!
Ziploc bags (1 gallon and 1 pint size, best quality) Bring extra ziplocs!
<s style="">pot cozy
</s>BEAR BAG! (silnylon, 20+ pound capacity); attach clip to it?
rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; <s style="">may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)</s>
titanium/heat-resistant thick plastic pint drinking cup?
<s style="">waterproof strike-anywhere matches (may just dip in wax)</s> bring a tiny lighter instead
<s style="">regular kitchen wooden matches
fire starter stuff (birthday candles, drier lint, magnesium strip and/or flint and steel; note cooking oil/stove fuel can also be used for this)</s>

Anti-Bug
<s style="">head net (already have 2); bring 1 on section hikes, 2 on thru-hike
nylon gloves (“aviator” gloves) when too hot/wet for garden gloves as needed; good against sun in open spaces, too (used extensively in past hiking out West as inner climbing glove liner during journal writing in open)
one NEW regular-size can Deep Woods OFF (leave out in winter outside of South)
</s>
Hygiene
<s style="">motel soap
motel shampoo
motel conditioner </s>Use your dr. bonners from dishwashing<s style="">
</s>small plastic comb
<s style="">one disposable plastic razor
</s>small set fingernail clippers (help with splinters, too)
<s style="">two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too</s>) buy regular toilet paper
ethyl alcohol hand sanitizer plastic bottle?
small individually-wrapped alcohol towlettes
<s style="">shower booties if obtainable; otherwise, may bring thin flip-flops? (to minimize Athlete’s Foot from public showers at hostel/truck stop showers, and as backup to Crocs as camp footwear)
</s>Now you’re up to four pairs of footwear!<o:p></o:p>

Rubbing/ethyl alcohol to sanitize socks and help them dry?
sock/shoe drying device I'm designing (not finished yet) Sleep with them on, they’ll dry, or hang them off your pack during the day.

First Aid/Medical
nasal spray
small tweezers
steroid cream tube for skin
band-aids
moleskin (have) ((blisters)
“second-skin” spray? (blisters/abrasions)
flat gauze pads ~3 or 4” square for inner thigh abrasions from walking use Vaseline or that glide stuff, or bike shorts
tiny plastic bottle suntan lotion (SPF 20+)
chap stick (Vaseline brand?)
superglue? (skin fissures; good for gear repair, too)
aspirin (take daily anyway)
Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
White surgical tape (blisters and hold bandages/band-aids in place, esp. in wet conditions)
Imodium anti-diarrhea pills

Clothing (much more in winter)
rain shell pants (single-layer nylon); Capilene/Frogg Toggs?
2 bandannas (not blue/violet/purple color, so UV penetrates less; red ideal)
“boonie” hat – wide-brimmed cloth hat (already have, hiked with extensively)
1 pair bicycle shorts (Spandex)
1 pair regular semi-athletic shorts (town, mild weather, bike shorts backup)
2 pair synthetic-fabric underwear
1 thin jacket (nylon outer, paper-thin synthetic liner; have one like this already I use for working outside)
1 cotton T-shirt for town and dry mild days (dark color so hides stains)
<s style="">1 pair down booties for night sleeping/in tent (REI sells)</s> No more footwear! Use socks.
1 thermal top? (like thermal underwear) 100% synthetic
1 thermal bottom/thin sweatpants? A/A
gloves
<s style="">4 – 6</s> pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?) 3 pair max
thin summer gaiters (longer and thicker for winter) (already have)
<s style="">two</s> eyeglasses straps (e.g., Croakies brand) one will suffice, if you lose one, buy new in town
<s style="">light-colored single-layer nylon windbreaker (esp. for sun</s>) you have froggs toggs

Records
camera (~1 27-shot disposable camera per 5 hiking days for section hikes for now; 12-oz. 35-mm digital camera in hip holster for thru-hike/ASAP)
<s style="">water-resistant</s> journal book (like orange geologic field journal) put a normal notebook in a ziploc
pencil<s style="">s</s> (mechanical pencils malfunction too often to trust IMO)
<s style="">tiny pencil sharpener</s> (pocketknife backup)
camera hip holster

Resources (maps/guides/numbers)
<s style="">Georgia wilderness areas map from Wal-Mart (in sporting goods by lake maps for fishing)</s>
<s style="">Printed list of distances from www (GA AT club site?)</s>
Wingfoot’s book
<s style="">Shuttle contact list</s>
<s style="">Appalachian Trail Conference trail guides (for GA/NC to start)
</s>Appalachian Trail Data Book
<s style="">Thru-hiker’s Handbook (formerly “Philosopher’s Guide”)</s>
<s style="">GA state highway map (highway welcome station)
NC state highway map (A/A)
</s>calling card numbers
phone numbers for family/work/friends
<s style="">State geological survey quadrangle maps for certain sections, e.g., Mt. Rogers/Whites/Katahdin (excess cut away); probably not an issue for section hikes pre-Mt. Rogers
</s>foliage/fauna identification handbook? (have not figured out good one yet)

Miscellaneous
<s style="">noncollapsible light-colored medium-sized umbrella with emergency-blanket material on outside (taped or spray-glued in place)
</s>book to read
semi-disposable earplugs (shelters, hostels) (have from work)
vitamin pills (already take daily; need biologic-origin source)
<s style="">nonmercury thermometer (100 to –40o range) probably only on thru-/winter hikes</s>
hiking stick – oak, fairly thick at base, 6’+ long, pad and strap where hold
<s style="">Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has</s>
<s style="">hip holster for bear spray</s>
small pocketknife (have)
<s style="">tiny scissors (sewing, surgical/duct tape, etc.)
parachute cord </s>you had this above with your bear bag
~30’ duct tape (the good stuff – from air conditioner supply store) that’s a lot of tape
<s style="">carabiners to hold zippers together
safety pins (repairs, hold bandanna to hat vs. sun)
plastic garbage bags
</s>1-2 contractor bags (heavy-duty yard bags) for inner pack liner
~2 stuff (compression) sacks (silnylon, from REI)
<s style="">2</s> disposable sunglasses (like clip-ons, but larger)
reversible hitchhiking sign that says “To Town” and “To Trail” (material?)
<s style="">necklace money pouch
tiny bottle eyeglasses/camera lens cleaner? (will probably just use soap & water until have digital camera)
</s>MONEY (<s style="">much of it as American Express money orders</s>)
debit card for thru-hike
<s style="">spare eyeglasses (thru-hike only)
washtub? --cut 2.5 gallon distilled water jug) (thru-hike during summer only)
pack of mousetraps? -- when using shelters only; possibly only worthwhile during</s> <s style="">winter/rainy spells when shelters most desirable to use
Beano/Gas-X (not for ME personally; OTHER users of shelters should bring) <!--[if gte vml 1]><v:shapetype id="_x0000_t75" coordsize="21600,21600" o:spt="75" o:preferrelative="t" path="m@4@5l@4@11@9@11@9@5xe" filled="f" stroked="f"> <v:stroke joinstyle="miter"/> <v:formulas> <v:f eqn="if lineDrawn pixelLineWidth 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 1 0"/> <v:f eqn="sum 0 0 @1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @2 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="prod @3 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @0 0 1"/> <v:f eqn="prod @6 1 2"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelWidth"/> <v:f eqn="sum @8 21600 0"/> <v:f eqn="prod @7 21600 pixelHeight"/> <v:f eqn="sum @10 21600 0"/> </v:formulas> <v:path o:extrusionok="f" gradientshapeok="t" o:connecttype="rect"/> <o:lock v:ext="edit" aspectratio="t"/> </v:shapetype><v:shape id="_x0000_i1025" type="#_x0000_t75" alt="" style='width:12pt; height:12pt'> <v:imagedata src="file:///C:DOCUME~1ALEXDA~1LOCALS~1Tempmsohtml1\02clip_imag e001.gif" o:href="http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/images/smilies/wink.gif"/> </v:shape><![endif]--><!--[if !vml]-->file:///C:%5CDOCUME%7E1%5CALEXDA%7E1%5CLOCALS%7E1%5CTemp%5 Cmsohtml1%5C02%5Cclip_image001.gif<!--[endif]--><o:p></o:p></s>

Dances with Mice
03-16-2005, 11:31
Did you take a look at my list of food ideas I posted just after I posted this rough draft gear list?Food's good. I try to eat some every day and I have evidence to show that I have been very successful! You already know what you like and don't like, just be aware that your tastes will probably change after awhile so don't worry too much about it up front.

Minor nit on gear list: If your hiking stick is the one I think you still have, then it's dogwood not oak.

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 11:36
You put a lot of time and thought into your reply, and I appreciate that.
BTW, I was referring to size, not quantity, when I put down (1) for gallon and pint Ziploc bags. Sorry I was not clear there.

Also, anyone, what's the name of Wingfoot's annual AT book?
I'm curious why you would leave out the following:

1) lightweight boots north of PA

2) white gas stove in deep winter

3) second headlamp (if first one goes out, I'm in deep &%#*)

4) Rubbermaid containers for meals cooked ahead/brought from town

5) Foil for cooking toast over campfire or sweet potatoes in campfire

6) Some firestarter stuff; it's mainly a safety item for cold wet weather, after all. How much can some dryer lint weigh, after all?

7) Why not take biodegradable TP over the regular kind? Money isn't really going to be a problem for me on my hikes anymore, so the BG stuff's price can't be the issue. It probably weighs about the same, too. What's your reasoning here?

8) About wet socks; Jardine in his books says sleeping with wet socks tends to result not in dry socks but in chilled feet.

9) I've got to have the carabiners, or something else to do the same thing. I've already had a pair of zippers gradually open up while hiking, and had stuff fall out of my pack. If the Trail had been muddy that day, it would have sucked bigtime.

10) I suppose I could sew a bandanna or two to my boonie hat I wear all the time while hiking to save the weight of 4 1/2"-long safety pins, but that would keep me from being able to adjust how they are positioned. I rather like being able to move a bandanna stuck up under my hat to one side or the other when the sun is coming from that direction. Too, bandannas in my experience don't last as long as hats do, and need washing more often. I think I'll keep the 4 safety pins, plus a couple of spares.

java
03-16-2005, 12:00
1) lightweight boots north of PA

What I eliminated from your list is from my experience of about 3000 miles of hiking on the AT. I hike in the Whites a lot (I'm working on my 4000 footers) for that I always hike in trail shoes not boots. I find that shoes grip rocks much better because they flex and form to the rocks. I slip less, and climb better. That's why I wear shoes, plus lighter footwear leads to less leg fatigue at the end of the day.

2) white gas stove in deep winter

Most of your list wasn't geared towards winter, so I enliminated this. Add it back in if you're hiking in real winter conditions.

3) second headlamp (if first one goes out, I'm in deep &%#*)

Not you're not. While thru-hiking you only really need your lamp in your tent at night, or early in the am to get ready. You'll be really exhaused and I doubt you'll use it as much as you expect. Unless you really like to night hike. You can live without a headlamp for a few days if yours broke. You'd be surpised at how bright the moon really is. Many people night hike during the full moon without a headlamp. Also, just bring an extra set of batteries if you're really concerned about this.

4) Rubbermaid containers for meals cooked ahead/brought from town

Who cooks meals and carries them out of town? Use a ziplock? Sometimes we carried out hotdogs or such, but they are already packaged.

5) Foil for cooking toast over campfire or sweet potatoes in campfire

That's more of a car camping thing.

6) Some firestarter stuff; it's mainly a safety item for cold wet weather, after all. How much can some dryer lint weigh, after all?

Fire starter stuff is all around you. TP, notebook paper, leaves, packaging garbage etc.

7) Why not take biodegradable TP over the regular kind? Money isn't really going to be a problem for me on my hikes anymore, so the BG stuff's price can't be the issue. It probably weighs about the same, too. What's your reasoning here?

Tough to find in most towns.

8) About wet socks; Jardine in his books says sleeping with wet socks tends to result not in dry socks but in chilled feet.

Ray Jardine isn't God. I sleep in damp socks a lot and wake up with dry ones. Now, if they're soaked, just put on a fresh pair and hang the wet ones in the shelter overnight, or off your pack.

9) I've got to have the carabiners, or something else to do the same thing. I've already had a pair of zippers gradually open up while hiking, and had stuff fall out of my pack. If the Trail had been muddy that day, it would have sucked bigtime.

Then bring carbiners. Just buy the small ones, not the massive climbing ones.

10) I suppose I could sew a bandanna or two to my boonie hat I wear all the time while hiking to save the weight of 4 1/2"-long safety pins, but that would keep me from being able to adjust how they are positioned. I rather like being able to move a bandanna stuck up under my hat to one side or the other when the sun is coming from that direction. Too, bandannas in my experience don't last as long as hats do, and need washing more often. I think I'll keep the 4 safety pins, plus a couple of spares.

Keeps the pins, they don't weigh much. I just don't think they're necessary.

Dances with Mice
03-16-2005, 12:02
[QUOTE=minnesotasmith]
7) Why not take biodegradable TP over the regular kind? Money isn't really going to be a problem for me on my hikes anymore, so the BG stuff's price can't be the issue. It probably weighs about the same, too. What's your reasoning here? [QUOTE]

Unless I missed a bunch of memos, all TP is biodegradable. I wouldn't know how to make regular toilet paper MORE biodegradable! It's creped wood pulp tissue. Buyint TP because it's labeled "biodegradable" is like buying bottled water because it's labeled "Low Calorie".

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 12:10
I currently do about half my walking to train at night (due to my work schedule), and I'm in an extremely rural area (no streetlamps, no buildings of any kind, etc.). I'm doing this in a mountainous area on narrow dirt roads, and I'm up to doing 5 - 6 miles each time now. The moon is covered by clouds a certain percentage of the time, and isn't always visible on clear nights (new moon phase). Too, when I have a high cliff right next to me, as I often do, if the moon is on that side, I'd be hosed without a headlamp. AT the least, surely I should bring a spare set of batteries for the one I use now.

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 12:22
"The closest store to Atlanta would be Mountain Crossings at Neels Gap. They can be reached at 706-745-6095. Wait time for a P-2 from me is ~2-3 weeks."

Brian Frankle
www.ula-equipment.com
Logan, Utah
USA

Jaybird
03-16-2005, 12:32
1) Hikerjohnd, according to Mueser, many thru-hikers carry both pads. It is paramount to me that I sleep well after a long day hiking, or else I'm not worth a cr*p the next day, no matter how light my packweight.

you wont have any probs sleeping after a long day on the trail....trust me!


2) Jaybird, this list is designed to cover functions possibly useful on the Trail. I know that there are duplications, such as the soaps that can be reduced in number. The idea is to have considered a concern before leaving something out.

I figure on eventually having a base packweight under 30 pounds, not counting food and water. I'm definitely not there yet, no question. Any other specific items on my list you would take out (or add), please say.

Man, if you take anything close to your list...you'll have 30 lbs.PLUS 60-75 more...

why do people give weight without food & water???? arent u gonna carry it?
If U carry it...count it!

if you have an OUTFITTER store close to you (REI, etc) go by with your list if youre not to sure about these WhiteBlaze responses...& get their opinion...preferrably from someome who has thru-hiked or is an avid backpacker.

kncats
03-16-2005, 12:46
1)white gas stove in deep winter

Most of your list wasn't geared towards winter, so I enliminated this. Add it back in if you're hiking in real winter conditions.
I've always been a little confused regarding the idea of switching from alcohol to white gas for winter hiking. My wife and I use our Trangia in ALL conditions. The last two times we were out it was 15 deg in the morning. The stove and alcohol bottle sat outside all night and no attempts were made to warm them. Stove lit fine and didn't have to refill to boil 1 1/2 quarts of (frozen) water for breakfast.

But, if you're dead set on switching to white gas I'd look for something other than the Svea 123. Yes, it's a tank, extraordinarily reliable and would probably be the last stove you ever had to buy. But it's not particularly light and the tank on it is pretty small. Need to add in the weight of an additional fuel bottle.

bearbag hanger
03-16-2005, 13:06
P2 pack (don’t remember manufacturer offhand, but is about 3 pounds, with over 4000 cubic inches capacity; is sold at Neels Gap)


http://www.ula-equipment.com/p2.htm

Great pack, used it for most of my thru hike.

Nearly Normal
03-16-2005, 19:32
I've got a G/Forrester. I really like it and it carries well. Bomb proof, but as I continue to get lighter gear I don't need as heavy a pack. Forrester is not rated for more than 40 pounds.
I'm down to around 30 pounds complete but still have an item or two to gather and get lighter still.
My next choice will be something like a Granite Gear item.
Think about gear choice's in weight and what you want down the road.
I could have started off 10 lb's lighter when I first started and with all the continued gear advancements probably 15+ today. You'll find out as you go.
I'm not really a gear head and have like most people limited funds, but each improvment in weight increases the pleasure in the mountains.
pete

magic_game03
03-16-2005, 19:53
after a few brews your gear list is pretty criptic but this is my 2 cents.
after... water bottle, ground pad, bug spray, and food I think earl shaffer would be busting a gut (R.I.P. ole timer) about now. minnesotasmith you've been posting here for a long time I'd of thought you'd have a tighter pack than that. I'm nobo in jersey right now and I don't cary that much stuff.
anyway, happy hiking.

minnesotasmith
03-16-2005, 20:15
As I said, it's a work in progress, and I wanted to discuss it, as java has graciously done with me. Do you, say, have one item you would add to that list of possibles?

magic_game03
03-16-2005, 20:37
yea, I just thought of a great item. A scrap of paper called 'crap I got to get rid of...'

sorry if I sound like an azz, I had a few brews. It's just that you've been posting here a long time and it just seems like a lot of stuff for someone who's been on this forum for so long.

Dances with Mice
03-16-2005, 21:00
For years I've carried a small mirror. A very small folding 'compact' (women's make-up mirror, whatever they're called), it originally had a hinged lid that I broke off, so I just carry half of it.

Didn't see toothpaste on your list. Or floss. Or a toothbrush?

And I might be the only one that's tried this, but I brush my teeth with a drop of Peppermint Dr. Bronner's. Hey, it said it could be used for that on the bottle's label (although it says a LOT of things on the label!!) so I tried it once and liked it. Gets your teeth squeaky clean. Freshens your breath. Takes care of morning mouth. Just use one drop.

"Don't Eat Soap! Dilute! Dilute! OK?"

UCONNMike
03-16-2005, 22:25
[ Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has
hip holster for bear spray]

Ok, Mountainsmith you have got to be joking with this list, please tell me you aren't gonna bring bear spray...if you are gonna complete this hike you are gonna have to hust get rid of a whole bunch of stuff. Take the suggestions seriously, cause they are all right on target, as far as what to ditch. b/c the stuff on your list is definetly pushing 60 plus pounds.

Slimer
03-16-2005, 23:20
You're going to need a Sherpa for your thru-hike. Don't become bogged down with detailing your gear.

1. lightweight pack

2. lightweight bag

3. lightweight tent........or maybe no tent at all.(I did'nt use one)

4. good footwear

5. alocohol stove, a few clothes, 3/4 pad, some food.

You'll quickly figure out the other stuff as you go along
The biggest step is to just start walking.............

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 09:31
I didn't put down a toothbrush or toothpaste (both travel-sized, natch), even though I faithfully carry one while traveling. I'll add that in.

Since I was online yesterday, I thought of something else. It's especially desirable in winter, but IMO worth carrying when hiking at any time of year. That's a pee bottle to use while in my sleeping bag/tent, to keep from having to wake all the way up during the night. I figure a wide-mouthed clear plastic bottle, like a Gatorade bottle, pint or perhaps quart-sized, and of course VERY plainly labeled. One of these would IMO not only get me more sleep at night; it would also probably make me a little more willing to fully drink-up in the evenings, which is a good thing when hiking in any season.
==============================================

Slimer said: "The biggest step is to just start walking............."

Well, I'm reliably doing training walks 2 out of 3 days now, on moderately hilly mountain rough gravel roads, with a 20-pound pack. I spend between 2 H 20 M to 3 H, and from taking measurements by driving a car odometer along the the same route, figure I'm commonly breaking 6 miles per walk. I hope that qualifies.

===============================================

UCONNMike said: "please tell me you aren't gonna bring bear spray"

Why not? I've already encountered a bear and loose dogs on my GA AT hikes this past year. I figure I'm sufficiently responsible and emotionally mature to handle having something like that with me, having without incident routinely carried a large caliber handgun when I did a bunch of solo field work in the northern mountains of Alabama some years ago that consisted mostly of bushwacking through woods.

"if you are gonna complete this hike you are gonna have to hust get rid of a whole bunch of stuff. "

I'm perfectly aware of that. What I have posted here is to a large degree a list of options and possibilities. So far only java has done what I was most hoping for, which is an item-by-item consideration of the functions on my list. If you want to be specific about one or more sections on my list, saying "you don't need these two items, but keep this one", or "none of the items you listed for a specific function are the way to go; get this instead", please feel free.

J.D.
03-17-2005, 12:47
OH.... I thought this thread was about "Rough Draft *BEER* not "gear"...!

Happy St. Patty's Day everyone! Have a Rough <Green> Draft!

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 13:12
Could you do this, please, instead of just saying "leave off a lot of the stuff on your list"?

"If you want to be specific about one or more sections on my list, saying "you don't need these two items, but keep this one", or "none of the items you listed for a specific function are the way to go; get this instead", please feel free."<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

Dances with Mice
03-17-2005, 13:41
Could you do this, please, instead of just saying "leave off a lot of the stuff on your list"?

"If you want to be specific about one or more sections on my list, saying "you don't need these two items, but keep this one", or "none of the items you listed for a specific function are the way to go; get this instead", please feel free."<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->

CAPS ARE JUST MY COMMENTS, not meant as shouting. As a first pass, I'd eliminate the redundancies.

THINGS TO CUT / RECONSIDER

Sleeping bag:synthetic nonmummy - WHY SYNTHETIC?

Footwear --
lightweight Gore-Tex material boots/trail runners
New Balance running shoes (high-end)
CHOOSE ONE.

white gas stove in winter hiking such as Sunto/SVEA 123
NOT NECESSARY. GOOGLE “IDITAROD STOVE”.

Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
CHOOSE ONE.

Katadyne ceramic filter pump (already own)
hiker-sized Aqua-Mira chlorine dioxide water treatment
CHOOSE ONE OR CARRY IODINE TABLETS AS BACKUP

1 ½- gallon plastic thermos

plastic food-grade funnel – RUBBER BAND COFFEE FILTER TO INTAKE HOSE.

1 LED headlamps – SPARE NOT NEEDED.
3 spare sets of AAA batteries for headlamps (3 batteries/set)
1 SPARE SET AT MOST. LEDs ARE VERY EFFICIENT.

penlight? small electric lamp? NOPE.

Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages
CHOOSE ONE.

(2) nesting Rubbermaid clear plastic containers with lids for leftovers/cooked-ahead meals USE ZIPLOCKS.

tiny dish soap bottle – DR. BRONNER’S, IT HAS MULTIPLE USES
tiny dish brush – USE SPORK.
green scrub pad (cut in half) – USE LEAVES
aluminum foil -
metal tool to lift pot? (don’t know correct term ) “BANDANA”
A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? NOT NEEDED.
1 - Roll paper towels – “BANDANA”

rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)
PARACHUTE CORD, NO CROSSPIECES, NO BELLS.

waterproof strike-anywhere matches (may just dip in wax)
regular kitchen wooden matches
BUTANE LIGHTER.

Anti-Bug head net (already have 2); bring 1 on section hikes, 2 on thru-hike
CARRY ONE.

nylon gloves (“aviator” gloves) when too hot/wet for garden gloves as needed; good against sun in open spaces, too (used extensively in past hiking out West as inner climbing glove liner during journal writing in open)
LISTED UNDER CLOTHES

one NEW regular-size can Deep Woods OFF
SMALL BOTTLE DEET.

motel soap
motel shampoo
motel conditioner
SOAP ALREADY LISTED ABOVE.

small set fingernail clippers (help with splinters, too)
REPLACE WITH LEATHERMAN “MICRA”

two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too)
PARTIAL ROLL OF WHITE NONSCENTED REGULAR TP IN ZIPLOCK.

shower booties if obtainable; otherwise, may bring thin flip-flops? (to minimize Athlete’s Foot from public showers at hostel/truck stop showers, and as backup to Crocs as camp footwear)
USE CROCS.

Rubbing/ethyl alcohol to sanitize socks and help them dry?

sock/shoe drying device I'm designing (not finished yet)

small tweezers
REPLACE WITH LEATHERMAN MICRA

“second-skin” spray? (blisters/abrasions)
MOLESKIN ALREADY LISTED.

Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
IODINE TABLETS CARRIED AS BACKUP WATER TREATMENT.

1 pair regular semi-athletic shorts (town, mild weather, bike shorts backup)
ALREADY LISTED BICYCLE SHORTS

1 thin jacket (nylon outer, paper-thin synthetic liner; have one like this already I use for working outside)
1 light-colored single-layer nylon windbreaker (esp. for sun)
CHOOSE ONE.

1 cotton T-shirt for town and dry mild days (dark color so hides stains)
REPLACE WITH SHORT SLEEVE SYNTHETIC.

1 pair down booties for night sleeping/in tent (REI sells)
USE SOCKS.

4 – 6 pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?)
3 PAIR, KEEP ONE IN SLEEPING BAG.

two eyeglasses straps (e.g., Croakies brand)
ONE.

tiny pencil sharpener – USE KNIFE BLADE OF MICRA.

Resources (maps/guides/numbers)
I LIKE MAPS AND HAVE SHELVES FULL. I ASSUME YOU ARE JUST MAKING A LIST OF MAPS TO BUY, NOT THAT YOU’LL BE CARRYING THEM ALL.

Printed list of distances from www (GA AT club site?)
Shuttle contact list
calling card numbers
phone numbers for family/work/friends
WRITE OR TAPE PRINTED LISTS IN JOURNAL.

Miscellaneous
Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has
hip holster for bear spray
REPLACE WITH PERSONAL PROTECTION SIZE RATHER THAN BEAR SIZE.

small pocketknife (have)
tiny scissors (sewing, surgical/duct tape, etc.)
INCLUDED ON LEATHERMAN MICRA

~30’ duct tape (the good stuff – from air conditioner supply store)
IF YOU NEED MORE THAN 10 FEET, 30 PROBABLY WON’T BE ENOUGH.

2 disposable sunglasses (like clip-ons, but larger)
ONE.

reversible hitchhiking sign that says “To Town” and “To Trail” (material?)
DRIVERS WILL FIGURE IT OUT WITHOUT A SIGN.

necklace money pouch
USE ZIPLOCK.

tiny bottle eyeglasses/camera lens cleaner? (will probably just use soap & water until have digital camera)
BANDANA OR ALCOHOL-MOISTENED TOWELETTES ALREADY LISTED.

washtub? --cut 2.5 gallon distilled water jug) (thru-hike during summer only)
ZIPLOCK BAG, COOKING POT, OR ZIPLOCK BAG INSIDE COOKING POT.

pack of mousetraps? -- when using shelters only; possibly only worthwhile during winter/rainy spells when shelters most desirable to use
YOU DON’T WANT TO HANDLE OR CARRY USED ONES.

ALREADY MENTIONED: Compass, toothbrush, toothpaste, consider a small mirror. Was knit cap or fleece cap on list? Trowel?

Dainon
03-17-2005, 14:10
First let me say that I probably shouldn't be doing a gear critique at all since I have ZERO long-distance experience. But that said, I spent countless hours reading everything that I could on what to bring/not bring, things to consider before evening thinking about packing, etc. I posted my gear list on a thread and I think that it has at least some merit.

I started with thinking the difference between absolute needs versus wants. And then I tried to find gear that addressed needs that was light and affordable. I also tried to factor in a bit of wiggle room, so to speak, to address safety concerns. And example is that I'm taking more clothes than would an experienced hiker because I don't want to have a situation as did Remorse and his pals.

I also kept in mind what most seem to agree is a good rule to follow -- "the more comfortable you are HIKING, the less comfortable you'll be in camp; the more comfortable you are in camp, the less comfortable you'll be hiking." So I thought about what I wanted, and I intend to spend as little time in camp as possible and most time possible hiking. As such, I decided not to carry things that I thought would do little to help me hiking -- no books, no radio, no cell phone, no PocketMail, no camp shoes, no solar shower, no CozyCreek, etc. On the other hand, I am carrying Lekis because my knees are shot and I need all the help that I can get. I haven't done a final weight check, but I think that SKIN OUT, including food and water, that I'll be well under 30 lbs. And if I had to do it over again, I could immediately shave 2 lbs. by getting rid of my Osprey Aether 60 and getting a ULA or Granite Gear or something similar. I'm sick of spending money so I'm going to use my Osprey until it falls apart.

Aside from the weight of your list, one thing that would bother me would be what I would call the "clutter." To me, there just seems to be too much stuff for me to keep up with. For example, I went with a 1.3L ti pot, a soda pop stove, a combination half-azzed windscreen/pot stand, and a plastic fork and spoon from McDonalds. I couldn't keep track of all of the cooking stuff listed. Another example is that I'm taking an empty Dasani water bottle and PolarPur -- the filter, backup Aqua, filter paper, Nagalene, bottles, etc. would be too much for me to handle. I'm also carrying a 2L Playtpus to haul water to camp. I think that it was about 2oz, and it seems to be worth it to avoid making numerous trips. I don't get the themos bottle at all. In the summer, there's no ice on the trail so no way to keep anything colder than room temp., so to speak. And for hot drinks, why not just stop for 5 min. and boil water if that's what you want and thus save carrying a thermos?

I'm going to get a crewcut before I leave, so I won't need a comb or shampoo and conditioner.

I'm carrying a Buck Ultralight knife (2 3/4 blade, 2.4 oz) and a single-edge razor blade for my 'tools.' I thought about the Leatherman Micra but my gear doesn't have any screws (thus no need for the screw driver), the blade seems too short for my comfort, etc. Anyway, I've carried a standard knife nearly all of my adult life and I'd feel weird without one on the trail.

The first aid stuff, I'm carrying some Pepto tablets and moleskin. That's pretty much it. If I get hurt, I've read that one is rarely more than a day away from a town, so I'll take my chances.

At first, I was worried about bears, too. But the more that I read, the more I realized that there was little to worry about, so I'd ditch the bear spray. As for dogs, I think that I can fend off a dog with my hiking poles if necessary. I guess that I can understand the bearbag, but bear bells might be a bit too much. Something tells me you'll know if there's a 400 lbs. carnivore nearby eating your stuff.

I'm taking a mini Bic lighter. If it breaks, which I've never known one to do, but if it does break then I'll eat cold food for a day or so until there is a town stop. The wooden matches, etc. just seems a bit much.

I've heard of someone carrying a solar shower bag, but never a homemade wash tub. I like staying clean, too, but I'm going to go with a half-size camp towel and Bronners soap.

Anyway, that's my .02 worth. It would be interesting to read your final starting gear list and then a list of what gear you have when you finish. I wish that more would do that in Trailjournals along with a critique of their choices. Best of luck to you.

================================================== ===============================
Gear List

Major Gear
P2 pack (don’t remember manufacturer offhand, but is about 3 pounds, with over 4000 cubic inches capacity; is sold at Neels Gap)

Sleeping bag (for nonwinter hiking): Western Mountaineering 20degree.

Silk liner for sleeping bag

Footwear:
lightweight trail runners

Tent:
Henry Shires: gray Virga 2 tarptent with beak, sewed-in floor, connected fine netting for lower walls,

Stove:
alcohol stove
windscreen
Heet (yellow bottle)

Pack cover/poncho:
having Packa custom-made in dull green color (since gray/camouflage not available color options)

Thermarest 3/4 pad
Pillow: use stuff sack with clothes

Water
PolarPur
Gatorade bottle
2L Platy

Lighting
1 LED keychain light

Cooking
Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
disposable plastic forks/spoons/
Ziploc bags (1 gallon and 1 pint size, best quality)
pot cozy
heat-resistant thick plastic pint drinking cup?
Mini Bic


Hygiene
Dr. Bronners
TP
ethyl alcohol hand sanitizer plastic bottle

First Aid/Medical
moleskin (have) ((blisters)
Imodium anti-diarrhea pills

Clothing (much more in winter)
Frogg Toggs?
1 bandannas (not blue/violet/purple color, so UV penetrates less; red ideal)
“boonie” hat – wide-brimmed cloth hat (already have, hiked with extensively)
1 pair bicycle shorts (Spandex)
2 pair synthetic-fabric underwear
1 thin jacket (nylon outer, paper-thin synthetic liner; have one like this already I use for working outside)
1 thermal top? (like thermal underwear) 100% synthetic
2 –3 pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?)

Records
camera (~1 27-shot disposable camera
5-7 blank pages from notebook
pencil

Resources (maps/guides/numbers)
Wingfoot’s book
appropriate maps
Timex Expedition watch ($27 at Walmart -- it has a digital compass)
foliage/fauna identification handbook? (have not figured out good one yet)

Miscellaneous
vitamin pills (already take daily; need biologic-origin source)
Lekis or trekking pole
small pocketknife (have)
parachute cord
30" duct tape
plastic garbage bags
1 trash compactor bag for inner pack liner
~2 stuff sacks (silnylon, from REI)
tiny bottle eyeglasses/camera lens cleaner? (will probably just use soap & water until have digital camera)
MONEY (much of it as American Express money orders)
debit card for thru-hike
[/QUOTE]

schwenkler
03-17-2005, 14:34
<pack of mousetraps? -- when using shelters only; possibly only worthwhile during winter/rainy spells when shelters most desirable to use>

Ah, reminds me of one night in the Smokies last summer...

When I showed up at the shelter there were a few hikers there. One guy had packed in EVERYTHING, including those colapsable chairs and a radio that he never turned off. And several mousetraps that he set up in the shelter around dinner time. We were all sitting around talking outside the shelter when we hear a SNAP from the shelter. He says "Got one," and jumps up to reset the trap.

In the morning there were four or five dead mice hanging around the shelter, and a bear hanging around outside. That was definitely the most wildlife I ever saw before getting out of my sleeping bag. Then one kid pulled out a blow-dart-gun to see if he could hit the bear with one of these little darts. He missed a few times, and the bear wandered away eventually.

I don't think this bear was after our food. Seems to me he was just exceedingly vain and liked posing for glamour shots.

Oh, mice... you'll only hear/see them in about 10% of shelters (my experience) and if you stay in shelters only 10% of the time, mousetraps are just so much dead weight. Could say the same for a lot of your gear. When hiking long distances, I tend to become angry at gear I don't USE and NEED. How you define your needs may vary, but you also need to take your backpack with you over the next mountain.

It's good to think about function when considering gear. I divide my gear list into: walk, sleep, eat, drink, hygiene, first aid/emergency, and luxury. Those, especially the first 4, are the fuctions my gear has to serve, and with the exception of first aid/emergency, I use those things every day. Just another way to look at it.

If you're training with a 20 lb pack, it will be hard to increase that weight when you hit the trail. I hiked with someone who said he trained with a 40 lb pack and ankle weights, on the trail his pack was probably 20 lbs max. He felt like he was flying with a light pack and no ankle weights. If you do the opposite you'll feel like you can't move down the trail under a heavier pack.

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 15:57
Let's see, my thoughts on what you wrote are...

Sleeping bag:synthetic nonmummy - WHY SYNTHETIC?
I don't like the idea of a sleeping bag that can permanently lose 10% of its insulating capability by being rolled up one lousy time, that takes a blast furnace to dry out, that has a filling that can decay, or can have pinfeathers sticking me through the lining. When I lived up north, I had a down jacket for subzero temps that I used extensively, so I know at least a little bit about down as insulation. If I go camping in Alaska outside summer or hike the AT in winter, I may get a down bag. However, for 3-season hiking on the AT, my perception is that synthetic makes more sense, especially since money is not really an issue in gear selection for me anymore.

Footwear --
lightweight Gore-Tex material boots/trail runners
New Balance running shoes (high-end)
CHOOSE ONE.

I take an unusually wide shoe size that is hard to find, so, if my trail footwear blows out, just quick grabbing a replacement at the next trail town is nowhere near a sure bet for me. My plan is to leave broken-in footwear at home (where someone will be prepared to mail it to me) in quantity enough to make it through a thru-hike, with at least lightweight boots for PA and north.

white gas stove in winter hiking such as Sunto/SVEA 123
NOT NECESSARY. GOOGLE “IDITAROD STOVE”.

Happily. Thanks for the info. I would love it if an alcohol stove would work for me down to -20 or so; I didn't think that one could.

Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
CHOOSE ONE.

Those pads had better work like an son-of-a-gun for only one to do the job on rocky terrain or a hard shelter floor. I've slept on a cheap pad (not one of those) on a shelter floor (was there due to rain), and not had a good time of it. If carrying a second one would make the difference between a lousy and a good night's sleep, I'm carrying it.

Katadyne ceramic filter pump (already own)
hiker-sized Aqua-Mira chlorine dioxide water treatment
CHOOSE ONE OR CARRY IODINE TABLETS AS BACKUP
I already own a hiker-sized bottle of iodine pills. It is about the size of one of the Aqua-Mira bottles (2 fluid oz. or less, if memory serves), so the portability difference between iodine tablets and Aqua-Mira is minor. I have some understanding about chlorine dioxide via a previous lab job in a biotech plant, and consider it a superior water purification technology over iodine. I guess it comes down to whether I should take the Katadyne or not; with the stuff that the biocides won't kill, IMO it's best to filter or boil as well. I'd rather not have to boil all my drinking water.

plastic food-grade funnel – RUBBER BAND COFFEE FILTER TO INTAKE HOSE.

Good idea for water low enough in particulates that it won't clog a dime-sized filter area. Of course, I suppose it could still work even then, if I just relocated the coffee filter on the intake as needed.

1 LED headlamps – SPARE NOT NEEDED.
Go out in the woods with only ONE source of illumination?!? I've been carrying 2 or 3 on overnighters. This former Boy Scout sees that as a tad irresponsible.

3 spare sets of AAA batteries for headlamps (3 batteries/set)
1 SPARE SET AT MOST. LEDs ARE VERY EFFICIENT.

I'm inclined to agree. I have over a score of hours of use on the set in the LED headlight (just ~$13.00 at ChinaMart) I've been using for training hikes at night during the past 5 weeks, and I can't tell the difference from when the batteries were new.

Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages
CHOOSE ONE.
Having only one pot would IMO mean that I could not have a drink while my meal was cooking or with it and that I would lose 20+ minutes of sleep or hiking each evening I made a hot meal and drink. (I drink a LOT of beverages when hiking, so an 8-oz. cup wouldn't do squat to bridge this need.) Surely I can hike more in 20 minutes than the weight of a 1-L thin titanium pot would slow me down each day? I don't remember how much they weigh, which would surely make this easier to decide.

(2) nesting Rubbermaid clear plastic containers with lids for leftovers/cooked-ahead meals USE ZIPLOCKS.

Ziplocs melt if you put anything hot in them. On my section and thru-hikes, I intend to both buy hot food in towns just before returning to the Trail, and to often cook a hot meal ahead (to make a second one right after I fix dinner, or less frequently after cooking a breakfast). Now, if you can think of a better container (lighter and still fully functional) than the Rubbermaid containers, I'm all ears.

tiny dish soap bottle – DR. BRONNER’S, IT HAS MULTIPLE USES

Conceded.

tiny dish brush – USE SPORK.

Don't think a fork or spoon will scrub a pot thoroughly.

green scrub pad (cut in half) – USE LEAVES

Plausible for anything short of cooked-on/dried-on food (which can be minimized by avoiding procratination in cleaning or by soaking overnight). I'll have to try it on my next section hike.

aluminum foil -

How large and heavy a piece would I need to cover a sweet potato before I toss it into coals? Not a significant weight IMO. I didn't intend to carry a whole roll or anything like that.

metal tool to lift pot? (don’t know correct term ) “BANDANA”

Good idea. Conceded.

A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? NOT NEEDED.

And my backup if I break or lose my Lexan spork would then be?

1 - Roll paper towels – “BANDANA”
My bandannas aren't anywhere near clean enough after being under my hat or around my face all day to handle food or wipe my hands on after I wash them in preparation for cooking/eating/personal hygiene. A cut piece of towel might be in order IMO, though.

rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)
PARACHUTE CORD, NO CROSSPIECES, NO BELLS.

Why not the crosspieces? I'm just talking about 2 pieces of rope the same diameter as my bear bag rope, about a foot long each, not counting the knots. Their function is to make my bag less vulnerable to being knocked down by an animal (possibly but not limited to a bear) making the line sway more and more until the bag fails and falls.

The bells are to let me know if a possum or raccoon is after my food bag and needs a couple of fist-sized rocks hurled at its head, or a bear that I'd possibly want to take a picture of is after my food (there being IMO no good answer short of a firearm to a bear being after my food, if the bear bag set up proves to be inadequate, and I'm not taking a firearm on the AT). A bell or two at most the size of a small gumball would be a big deal to carry?

waterproof strike-anywhere matches (may just dip in wax)
regular kitchen wooden matches
BUTANE LIGHTER.

Okay... I suspect the weight is comparable, but the lighter would be more compact. Worth investigation.

Anti-Bug head net (already have 2); bring 1 on section hikes, 2 on thru-hike
CARRY ONE.

Conceded.

one NEW regular-size can Deep Woods OFF
SMALL BOTTLE DEET.

Would likely depend on location and time of year. Fall and spring in the north; sure; summer in the south -- I'll go through the big can in under a week section hike.

two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too)
PARTIAL ROLL OF WHITE NONSCENTED REGULAR TP IN ZIPLOCK.

I can go through a roll of TP in 2 days. I can't see carrying less than half a roll per expected day between resupply points. Guess the idea of trading with other hikers is not one to worry about.

shower booties if obtainable; otherwise, may bring thin flip-flops? (to minimize Athlete’s Foot from public showers at hostel/truck stop showers, and as backup to Crocs as camp footwear)
USE CROCS.

Conceded. Good idea.

small tweezers
REPLACE WITH LEATHERMAN MICRA

Not familiar with this item.

“second-skin” spray? (blisters/abrasions)
MOLESKIN ALREADY LISTED.
Conceded. Moleskin strikes me as more reliable anyway.

Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
IODINE TABLETS CARRIED AS BACKUP WATER TREATMENT.

How well do ITs really work as a topical antibiotic substitute?

1 pair regular semi-athletic shorts (town, mild weather, bike shorts backup)
ALREADY LISTED BICYCLE SHORTS

Not the same item. Regular shorts allow for ventilation (important if I develop a groin skin abrasion/rash issue) that bike shorts don't, plus don't look as weird in town or when trying to hitch a ride. Too, I can't see having only one clothing item that can cover modesty requirements for that whole area of my body.

1 thin jacket (nylon outer, paper-thin synthetic liner; have one like this already I use for working outside)
1 light-colored single-layer nylon windbreaker (esp. for sun)
CHOOSE ONE.

Conceded. I'll go with the slightly heavier one on section hikes in cool weather. On my through, I'll do a switch-out at some point.

1 pair down booties for night sleeping/in tent (REI sells)
USE SOCKS.

Socks not warm enough for my feet; I've been cold on the AT in GA at night in June (at Hawk Mountain shelter, to be precise). Besides, my socks are likely to be wet a lot of the time, from how much rain I've gathered from reading trail journals typically falls on the AT.

4 – 6 pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?)
3 PAIR, KEEP ONE IN SLEEPING BAG.

Quote from Roland Mueser's book, which is based upon surveys of a bunch of successful AT thru-hikers: "...no one was casual about the importance of always having a pair of dry socks. Just a few of the hikers took only 2 or 3 pairs of socks with them, 84% carried 3 -6 pairs, and some 15 hikers [out of over 100 or so] did not feel safe without carrying 7 - 10 pairs of socks."

OTOH, Jardine's gear list in his book showed only 3 socks (thin ones that would not keep feet warm IMO, BTW).

My thinking is that my footwear and my pack are the paramount gear items; that anything else can fail, and I can grit it out and press on, but not if either of those blows out. This bears further consideration, definitely; the sooner I do a section hike where it rains every day, the sooner I'll have this nailed down, I suppose.

Resources (maps/guides/numbers)
I LIKE MAPS AND HAVE SHELVES FULL. I ASSUME YOU ARE JUST MAKING A LIST OF MAPS TO BUY, NOT THAT YOU’LL BE CARRYING THEM ALL.
Exactly. Plus, as a geologist, I can discern useful or interesting information from a map that most people cannot, so maps can arguably do more for me than they do for most other people.

Printed list of distances from www (GA AT club site?)
Shuttle contact list
calling card numbers
phone numbers for family/work/friends
WRITE OR TAPE PRINTED LISTS IN JOURNAL.

Conceded. Good idea on how to keep track of and protect that information.

Miscellaneous
Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has
hip holster for bear spray
REPLACE WITH PERSONAL PROTECTION SIZE RATHER THAN BEAR SIZE.
Well, I will admit in a heartbeat that I'll more likely have an issue with loose dogs or other animals (possibly but unlikely could be people, too) smaller than bears. Still, I have first-hand confirmation that the AT contains bears. Plausible.
tiny scissors (sewing, surgical/duct tape, etc.)
INCLUDED ON LEATHERMAN MICRA
I'm not familiar with this product. Is it a Swiss Army knife with lots of tool attachments, or what?

~30’ duct tape (the good stuff – from air conditioner supply store)
IF YOU NEED MORE THAN 10 FEET, 30 PROBABLY WON’T BE ENOUGH.
Interesting statement; would you please explain it? I figure duct tape is for emergency tent/pack/raingear repair (until I can get to a town with an outfitter or ChinaMart).

2 disposable sunglasses (like clip-ons, but larger)
ONE.

The ones I like are very inexpensive, weigh about as much as a quarter, get scratched moderately easily in the woods, and are not impossible to lose or sit on. They are also VERY hard to find in stores. I think I'll carry the spare one along.

reversible hitchhiking sign that says “To Town” and “To Trail” (material?)
DRIVERS WILL FIGURE IT OUT WITHOUT A SIGN.
Okay. Makes sense. Conceded.

necklace money pouch
USE ZIPLOCK.
Cheaper and lighter, no question. Might still want a string if I took it in the shower. Seems like it'd be easier to drop and lose, not to mention developing a catastrophic hole without my knowing about it in time.

tiny bottle eyeglasses/camera lens cleaner? (will probably just use soap & water until have digital camera)
BANDANA OR ALCOHOL-MOISTENED TOWELETTES ALREADY LISTED.
Conceded. I would probably just use soap, water, and TP as I do now for glasses. I don't know the requirements for camera lenses, not having really used them much in the past.

washtub? --cut 2.5 gallon distilled water jug) (thru-hike during summer only)
ZIPLOCK BAG, COOKING POT, OR ZIPLOCK BAG INSIDE COOKING POT.
Cooking pot -- perfect. Thank you for that great idea on how to eliminate a pointless redundance. I rather doubt that my cookpot will develop a hole while on the Trail, and if it does so, I have bigger problems than not being able to conveniently wash some small clothes items in the field.

pack of mousetraps? -- when using shelters only; possibly only worthwhile during winter/rainy spells when shelters most desirable to use
YOU DON’T WANT TO HANDLE OR CARRY USED ONES.

Agreed.

"consider a small mirror. Was knit cap or fleece cap on list? Trowel?"

Other than shaving, what would I use a mirror for? All I can think of is emergency signaling on sunny days, or to see where splinters are located (if in awkward places) so I can remove them solo.

Good point on the knit cap. It's like the toothbrush; so common and expected, I didn't think to write it down.

I own a plastic trowel, but was leaning against bringing it. Frankly, I don't think I can justify lugging it for digging catholes. The best rationale IMO would be for occasional small-trench-digging around my tent when camped in it in heavy rain. Your thoughts here, please?

===============================================

Thanks again for all the input, Dances with Mice.

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 16:09
Schwenkler said: "Oh, mice... you'll only hear/see them in about 10% of shelters (my experience)"


My first frigging night on the AT as an adult (Hawk Mountain shelter last June), I had the suckers run over my head repeatedly. They are not imaginary.

Dances with Mice
03-17-2005, 16:43
Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
CHOOSE ONE.

Those pads had better work like an son-of-a-gun for only one to do the job on rocky terrain or a hard shelter floor. I've slept on a cheap pad (not one of those) on a shelter floor (was there due to rain), and not had a good time of it. If carrying a second one would make the difference between a lousy and a good night's sleep, I'm carrying it.

START WITH ONE. IF ONE ISN'T ENOUGH, TWO PROBABLY WON'T BE EITHER.

1 LED headlamps – SPARE NOT NEEDED.
Go out in the woods with only ONE source of illumination?!?

ADD KEYCHAIN SIZED SINGLE LED.

(2) nesting Rubbermaid clear plastic containers with lids for leftovers/cooked-ahead meals USE ZIPLOCKS.

Ziplocs melt if you put anything hot in them. On my section and thru-hikes, I intend to both buy hot food in towns just before returning to the Trail, and to often cook a hot meal ahead (to make a second one right after I fix dinner, or less frequently after cooking a breakfast). Now, if you can think of a better container (lighter and still fully functional) than the Rubbermaid containers, I'm all ears.

USE COOKPOT? BUT ZIPLOCKS EASILY WITHSTAND BOILING WATER TEMPERATURES. http://www.antigravitygear.com/products/pouch_cozy.html

A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? NOT NEEDED.

And my backup if I break or lose my Lexan spork would then be?

WHITTLED CHOPSTICKS? SO DON'T BREAK OR LOSE IT. WHEN ALL YOUR EGGS ARE IN ONE BASKET, WATCH THE BASKET!

rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)
PARACHUTE CORD, NO CROSSPIECES, NO BELLS.

Why not the crosspieces? I'm just talking about 2 pieces of rope the same diameter as my bear bag rope, about a foot long each, not counting the knots. Their function is to make my bag less vulnerable to being knocked down by an animal (possibly but not limited to a bear) making the line sway more and more until the bag fails and falls.

The bells are to let me know if a possum or raccoon is after my food bag and needs a couple of fist-sized rocks hurled at its head, or a bear that I'd possibly want to take a picture of is after my food (there being IMO no good answer short of a firearm to a bear being after my food, if the bear bag set up proves to be inadequate, and I'm not taking a firearm on the AT). A bell or two at most the size of a small gumball would be a big deal to carry?

SILNYLON WON'T FAIL. ON WINDY NIGHTS NOBODY'S GOING TO APPRECIATE YOUR FOODBAG BELL.

I can go through a roll of TP in 2 days. I can't see carrying less than half a roll per expected day between resupply points.

SCOTT TISSUE CUSTOMER OF THE YEAR!

LEATHERMAN MICRA
Not familiar with this item.
http://www.leatherman.com/products/tools/micra/default.asp

Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
IODINE TABLETS CARRIED AS BACKUP WATER TREATMENT.
How well do ITs really work as a topical antibiotic substitute?

JUST ADD WATER.

~30’ duct tape (the good stuff – from air conditioner supply store)
IF YOU NEED MORE THAN 10 FEET, 30 PROBABLY WON’T BE ENOUGH.
Interesting statement; would you please explain it? I figure duct tape is for emergency tent/pack/raingear repair (until I can get to a town with an outfitter or ChinaMart).

10 FEET IS A LOT. IF YOU NEED MORE THAN THAT YOU'D PROBABLY NEED MORE THAN 30 FEET. SO JUST CARRY 10 FEET.

necklace money pouch
USE ZIPLOCK.
Cheaper and lighter, no question. Might still want a string if I took it in the shower. Seems like it'd be easier to drop and lose, not to mention developing a catastrophic hole without my knowing about it in time.

ALL EGGS, ONE BASKET, ETC.

"consider a small mirror. Was knit cap or fleece cap on list? Trowel?"

Other than shaving, what would I use a mirror for? All I can think of is emergency signaling on sunny days, or to see where splinters are located (if in awkward places) so I can remove them solo.

TICK CHECK.

I own a plastic trowel, but was leaning against bringing it. Frankly, I don't think I can justify lugging it for digging catholes. The best rationale IMO would be for occasional small-trench-digging around my tent when camped in it in heavy rain. Your thoughts here, please?

JUST WONDERED IF IT WAS SOMETHING YOU'D CONSIDERED.

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 17:02
Good point with the tick check option.

About the bells... If animals are messing with my food bag, they're probably after other campers' bags as well. I'd think most people would be happy to be awakened to have a chance to save their food bag from a racoon.

Too, I'll be camping away from the shelters most of the time, I figure. If I follow Jardine's pattern of cook and eat in one place, but move a couple of miles further down the trail afterwards to make camp for the night, I should limit my mouse and bear encounters significantly. Only on hard-rain nights or winter hiking do I figure on sleeping in shelters.

Lastly, with a heavy (>6 pounds) food bag and those rope crosspieces I was going to try, I can't see much wind-caused bell-ringing swaying of a hung foodbag, but I could be wrong...

hiker5
03-17-2005, 17:24
two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too)
PARTIAL ROLL OF WHITE NONSCENTED REGULAR TP IN ZIPLOCK.

I can go through a roll of TP in 2 days. I can't see carrying less than half a roll per expected day between resupply points. Guess the idea of trading with other hikers is not one to worry about.



Wow! Half a roll in a day? I don't see how anyone person could use that much TP.

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 17:28
"Wow! Half a roll in a day? I don't see how anyone person could use that much TP."

I usually eat enough fiber. Most people don't, such as anyone who makes a habit of eating things made with white flour.

hiker5
03-17-2005, 17:33
I understand the whole more fiber, more BM's, yadda yadda, but half a roll? You'd have to be eating colon blow (http://snltranscripts.jt.org/89/89ecolonblow.phtml) around the clock.

The Old Fhart
03-17-2005, 17:48
If you can play a 1.8Mb AVI movie file, this (http://www.metrocast.net/~rjb0343/Test/Farting in Bed.avi) goes with the "colon blow".

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 18:08
I said I can. I don't intend to run short of TP while on the Trail, any more than I intend to run short of food or water; happening outside an emergency would just be incompetent planning.
=========================================
Schwenkler brought up the valid point of carrying a pack comparable in weight (or more than) what I'll hike with. I'm working on it; in a week or two, I'll throw in another gallon jug of water in my training pack; that's another 8.3 pounds, roughly. I'm currently trying to push my mileage up to around 7 miles every outing right now (3 hours on the course I use); that won't take long at the rate I'm going.

Also, more on mice... in Mueser's book, he mentioned a hiker who habitually placed a baited mousetrap atop and beside his pack each night; he often caught mice, but never found evidence of a mouse having entered his pack.
========================================

Dainon made a number of points I'm overdue to respond on...

1) The thermos is for bringing hot or cold beverages from town or at the beginning of a hike, or hot beverages in cold weather that I prepared earlier that day. It's also another container for hauling water from any source a long distance between resupply points. It's plastic and doesn't weigh squat, but is sturdy and holds temperature well (ice lasted in it over 30 hours in GA summer). It's a Coleman, FWIW.

2) I own a solar shower bag, but would not bring it along on a solo overnight hike. I see it mainly as a car camping tool. If I was doing a leisure hike with a young lady, I might consider bringing it.

3) First aid... I've gotten splinters and abrasion rashes too many times when in the boonies not to bring stuff to treat them.

4) Lighting... I prefer my LED headlamp over a keychain light. I have my hands free, whether doing camp stuff after dark, or night hiking. If I were to hike at night, I'd have one hand taken up by my hiking stick, and would not have the option to use both hands on downhills, or to switch hands back and forth.

5) I forgot to add in a watch in my original list. Jardine has IMO a good suggestion to get one with a webbed band, so sweat doesn't collect there and chap. Also, his idea of it being waterproof seems to me to be a "slap the forehead and go "Duh! Of course!" deal.

Panzer1
03-17-2005, 18:12
Can you list the total weight of all these items?
The total weight is a thing you want to watch very closely.

If you have Excel on your computer you can put the weight of each item on a seperate line along with the description and then Excel will total it for you. You could "cut and paste" so you would not have to retype anything.

With the weight for each individual item, we could more easily determine if it is worth the weight.

Panzer

schwenkler
03-17-2005, 18:17
Schwenkler said: "Oh, mice... you'll only hear/see them in about 10% of shelters (my experience)"


My first frigging night on the AT as an adult (Hawk Mountain shelter last June), I had the suckers run over my head repeatedly. They are not imaginary.
Oh, they're absolutely there. I never had a mouse come anywhere near me, let alone run over my face, in about 80 nights in AT shelters... BUT I did see/hear a few. Are you sure you didn't for some reason smell like food or have found near you/on the shelter floor? Just curious, because like I said I never had problems.

Boy, I must be bored, 'cause I'm gonna go through you're whole list. My comments will be in

Footwear --
lightweight Gore-Tex material boots/trail runners
New Balance running shoes (high-end)
CHOOSE ONE.

I take an unusually wide shoe size that is hard to find, so, if my trail footwear blows out, just quick grabbing a replacement at the next trail town is nowhere near a sure bet for me. My plan is to leave broken-in footwear at home (where someone will be prepared to mail it to me) in quantity enough to make it through a thru-hike, with at least lightweight boots for PA and north.

[Consider putting your replacement in a bounce box that you send to a town every 100 or 200 miles. In my opinion, there's nothing about north of PA that warrants switching to boots. My best advice is, you'll know by the time you get there, with over 1000 miles of experience, what you want better than you do now. So I wouldn't buy anything except your first 1 or MAYBE 2 pairs of footwear ahead of time.]

Ridgerest pad (6’ length)
Thermarest pad (6’ length) or Big Agnes
CHOOSE ONE.

Those pads had better work like an son-of-a-gun for only one to do the job on rocky terrain or a hard shelter floor. I've slept on a cheap pad (not one of those) on a shelter floor (was there due to rain), and not had a good time of it. If carrying a second one would make the difference between a lousy and a good night's sleep, I'm carrying it.

[Getting a good night's sleep is important. But if you'll be avoiding shelters, it won't be so hard. The ground is much softer than a shelter floor, especially if you hunt for a good site. Also consider switching to a hammock if it's a huge problem. Others on this site could help you with that.]

Katadyne ceramic filter pump (already own)
hiker-sized Aqua-Mira chlorine dioxide water treatment
CHOOSE ONE OR CARRY IODINE TABLETS AS BACKUP



[i]1 LED headlamps – SPARE NOT NEEDED.
Go out in the woods with only ONE source of illumination?!? I've been carrying 2 or 3 on overnighters. This former Boy Scout sees that as a tad irresponsible.

[A spare isn't needed, but I agree with Dances with Mice--a small led weighs 1/2 ounce.]

Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages
CHOOSE ONE.
Having only one pot would IMO mean that I could not have a drink while my meal was cooking or with it and that I would lose 20+ minutes of sleep or hiking each evening I made a hot meal and drink. (I drink a LOT of beverages when hiking, so an 8-oz. cup wouldn't do squat to bridge this need.) Surely I can hike more in 20 minutes than the weight of a 1-L thin titanium pot would slow me down each day? I don't remember how much they weigh, which would surely make this easier to decide.

[Not sure I agree with that logic. If drinking that much is your lifestyle, though, you may be willing to carry some extra weight, so I would consider this: carry either a bowl, or a cup, and the large pot. Boil enough water for both your meal & drink, then pour the boiling water into the cup for your drink & eat from the pot, or vice versa with the bowl]

tiny dish brush – USE SPORK.

Don't think a fork or spoon will scrub a pot thoroughly.

[backed up by things like your tounge, index finger & even some leaves, you'll be fine.]

A few disposable plastic forks/spoons/knives? NOT NEEDED.

And my backup if I break or lose my Lexan spork would then be?



[i]1 - Roll paper towels – “BANDANA”
My bandannas aren't anywhere near clean enough after being under my hat or around my face all day to handle food or wipe my hands on after I wash them in preparation for cooking/eating/personal hygiene. A cut piece of towel might be in order IMO, though.

[Or a second bandana--it has more uses than a disposable item. Also, TP is great for this kind of stuff.]

rope for bear bag – heavy-duty nylon with (2) 45o-angle crosspieces to reduce swaying; may use lightweight cable instead; put clip on
bells to put on bear bag? (let me know bag being messed with)
PARACHUTE CORD, NO CROSSPIECES, NO BELLS.

Why not the crosspieces? I'm just talking about 2 pieces of rope the same diameter as my bear bag rope, about a foot long each, not counting the knots. Their function is to make my bag less vulnerable to being knocked down by an animal (possibly but not limited to a bear) making the line sway more and more until the bag fails and falls.

The bells are to let me know if a possum or raccoon is after my food bag and needs a couple of fist-sized rocks hurled at its head, or a bear that I'd possibly want to take a picture of is after my food (there being IMO no good answer short of a firearm to a bear being after my food, if the bear bag set up proves to be inadequate, and I'm not taking a firearm on the AT). A bell or two at most the size of a small gumball would be a big deal to carry?

[Your food is much safer tucked under your feet than hanging in a tree. I only ONCE hung my food, and a racoon got into it. Why hang? Nothing will mess with your food when you're nearby. Animals are afraid of us, we're higher up on the food chain. Now git in ma belly!]

one NEW regular-size can Deep Woods OFF
SMALL BOTTLE DEET.

Would likely depend on location and time of year. Fall and spring in the north; sure; summer in the south -- I'll go through the big can in under a week section hike.

[:eek: My original comment was rather obsene. This is similar to the 1/2 roll of TP per day, but much worse.]

two 4-packs biodegradable toilet paper (Wal-Mart RV section in Automotive department; is a trade item with other hikers, too)
PARTIAL ROLL OF WHITE NONSCENTED REGULAR TP IN ZIPLOCK.

I can go through a roll of TP in 2 days. I can't see carrying less than half a roll per expected day between resupply points. Guess the idea of trading with other hikers is not one to worry about.

[Oi, that's a lot of TP. Please consider the impact.]

small tweezers
REPLACE WITH LEATHERMAN MICRA

Not familiar with this item.

[Small tweezers are on the Swiss Army knives too.]

Bactine OR methiolate/iodine OR antibiotic ointment
IODINE TABLETS CARRIED AS BACKUP WATER TREATMENT.

How well do ITs really work as a topical antibiotic substitute?

[Do you have a hand sanitizer? Use that.]

1 pair down booties for night sleeping/in tent (REI sells)
USE SOCKS.

Socks not warm enough for my feet; I've been cold on the AT in GA at night in June (at Hawk Mountain shelter, to be precise). Besides, my socks are likely to be wet a lot of the time, from how much rain I've gathered from reading trail journals typically falls on the AT.



[i]4 – 6 pair noncotton socks (synthetic or Smartwool?)
3 PAIR, KEEP ONE IN SLEEPING BAG.

Quote from Roland Mueser's book, which is based upon surveys of a bunch of successful AT thru-hikers: [b]"...no one was casual about the importance of always having a pair of dry socks. Just a few of the hikers took only 2 or 3 pairs of socks with them, 84% carried 3 -6 pairs, and some 15 hikers [out of over 100 or so] did not feel safe without carrying 7 - 10 pairs of socks."

OTOH, Jardine's gear list in his book showed only 3 socks (thin ones that would not keep feet warm IMO, BTW).

My thinking is that my footwear and my pack are the paramount gear items; that anything else can fail, and I can grit it out and press on, but not if either of those blows out. This bears further consideration, definitely; the sooner I do a section hike where it rains every day, the sooner I'll have this nailed down, I suppose.



[i]Miscellaneous
Bear spray -- Counter Assault brand; REI has
hip holster for bear spray
REPLACE WITH PERSONAL PROTECTION SIZE RATHER THAN BEAR SIZE.
Well, I will admit in a heartbeat that I'll more likely have an issue with loose dogs or other animals (possibly but unlikely could be people, too) smaller than bears. Still, I have first-hand confirmation that the AT contains bears. Plausible.

[Every year hundreds of thru-hikers mysteriously make it all the way without bear spray.]

2 disposable sunglasses (like clip-ons, but larger)
ONE.

The ones I like are very inexpensive, weigh about as much as a quarter, get scratched moderately easily in the woods, and are not impossible to lose or sit on. They are also VERY hard to find in stores. I think I'll carry the spare one along.



[I deleted the wallet thing, but check this out: www.simblissity.net (http://www.simblissity.net)]

[i]"consider a small mirror. Was knit cap or fleece cap on list? Trowel?"

I own a plastic trowel, but was leaning against bringing it. Frankly, I don't think I can justify lugging it for digging catholes. The best rationale IMO would be for occasional small-trench-digging around my tent when camped in it in heavy rain. Your thoughts here, please?

[Sticks (and trekking poles if you carry them) are great for both.]

Panzer1
03-17-2005, 18:17
5) I forgot to add in a watch in my original list. Jardine has IMO a good suggestion to get one with a webbed band, so sweat doesn't collect there and chap. Also, his idea of it being waterproof seems to me to be a "slap the forehead and go "Duh! Of course!" deal.
I took the watch band off my watch and hiked with the watch in my backpack or my pants pocket. The watch always cought on my backpack strap when I was putting my pack on anyway, that was my real reason. Also it saved the extra weight, for whatever that was worth...

Panzer

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 18:22
"Can you list the total weight of all these items?"

Not yet I can't. First, in many cases I haven't decided which ones would be the lightest that would still do the job. Second, many items (especially if not intended for hikers) don't have their weights listed online, so I can't know their weights without either buying them and taking them home to weigh them, or at least going to the places I'm going to buy them from, and writing down all their weights (if they're even on the package labeling). Lastly, I'm not at home; I'm many, many miles away from it, and will be until several days before my section hike. Thus, I can't buy stuff and weigh it right now.

MOWGLI
03-17-2005, 18:38
Then one kid pulled out a blow-dart-gun to see if he could hit the bear with one of these little darts. He missed a few times, and the bear wandered away eventually.



It would have been difficult for me not to stomp on the little bastard.

Slimer
03-17-2005, 19:20
That video had me in tears! Where in the world did you dig that up?

The Old Fhart
03-17-2005, 19:46
That video had me in tears! Where in the world did you dig that up?Not sure where I got that video I referenced in post #40 but it sounds like Phil Hartman and the previous post on colon blow reminded me of it. I have an MP3 file that is equally disgusting.

minnesotasmith
03-17-2005, 20:28
Your posts on this thread have been very helpful. You, Dances with Mice, and java have saved me much time and thought with my pack list. I will post a revised one as soon as I can (not today).

Leaving off the watchband strikes me as akin to cutting off the margins of maps; logical, but not sure how much difference it would make. I do all my practice hikes with a wristwatch; I find it useful to gauge how far I've gone, and other aspects of that walk.

Panzer1
03-18-2005, 00:47
I own a plastic trowel, but was leaning against bringing it. Frankly, I don't think I can justify lugging it for digging catholes. The best rationale IMO would be for occasional small-trench-digging around my tent when camped in it in heavy rain. Your thoughts here, please?

This reminds me of my favorite "trowel story". When I first started hiking I went on a trip with a buddy Steve who brought a trowel with him. I asked him "what's that thing for"? He explained that if it rained, he could used it to dig a trench around the tent to divert the water. That night after we truned in,(we were sharing a 2 man tent) we were laying in our sleeping bags, warm and cozey and it started to rain real heavy. We started to become concerned that the tent might leak. I asked him if he still had the trowel with him. He said he did. I said, "well then why don't you get up and go out there and dig that trench around the tent that you were telling me about?" We both started laughing. It was really funny. I guess the thing is, if its not actually raining no one wants to be bothered digging a trench, once it starts raining, no one wants to go out in the rain to dig one.

That trip was with one of my best friends, Steve. He recently passed away. But I'm glad I have that story.

Panzer

Jack Tarlin
03-18-2005, 01:23
Minnesota:

A few quick comments on "Resources" and other things:

*You won't need Bruce's "The Thru-Hiker's Handbook" AND the A.T. Data Book, as the Data Book information is essentially contained in the Handbook. (How and why Bruce got permission from the ATC to essentially duplicate this information is a mystery to me, but nevertheless, the data is there. You won't need both books). And consider carrying only the pages you'll need right away, i.e., don't leave home with the whole book. In other words, when you're hiking thru Georgia, you don't really need to know where the ATM's are located in Maine, or where the water sources are in Maryland. Carry the sections you need and have others periodically mailed to you.

*I understand you like and enjoy maps. So do I. But you won't need all of the stuff you've mentioned, including the two pounds of extra maps. Most folks find that the maps available from the ATC are perfectly sufficient; the first one will get you all the way thru Georgia; the second one will get you to the Smokies, and so on. You won't need fifteen different maps out there. Settle on ONE, but make it a good one.

*I carry a big pack and I carry a bunch of stuff that a lot of folks wouldn't. So I'm hesitatant to tell anyone that they're carrying too much stuff, but Smitty, you're carrying too much stuff. Resist the temptation to carry "back-ups" or even second back-ups of everything, such as flashlights, batteries, forks, etc. These things can always be replaced as needed, and if necessary, you'll find a way to get by without them for a few days if you have to. Words to live by: Make it do, use it again, use it up, do without it. Right now, your present list looks to be about 60 pounds, and I have no idea how much food and water you plan to carry. (And some of the pack you mentioned are NOT designed to carry more than 35 pounds.....they WILL fall apart if you abuse them). I understand this is a preliminary list, but I've got two words for you: GET RUTHLESS! You really want to start from Springer with 70 pounds, it's not a lot of fun. The people that are telling you that you're over-carrying and over-supplied in virtually every category are, for the moment, absolutely right.

Dances with Mice
03-18-2005, 18:52
Large titanium pot (~1.3 L) for food
Medium titanium pot (~1.0 L) for heating beverages
CHOOSE ONE.
Having only one pot would IMO mean that I could not have a drink while my meal was cooking or with it and that I would lose 20+ minutes of sleep or hiking each evening I made a hot meal and drink. (I drink a LOT of beverages when hiking, so an 8-oz. cup wouldn't do squat to bridge this need.) Surely I can hike more in 20 minutes than the weight of a 1-L thin titanium pot would slow me down each day? I don't remember how much they weigh, which would surely make this easier to decide.

I'm still not following you on how two pots will halve your cooking time.

First, the time to heat a few cups of water is 4 -5 minutes, tops, not 20.

Second - How many pots are you planning to heat at once?

The answer can wait, I'm off to Bull Pen Gap for tonight, then trail maintenance with the GATC tomorrow. If anyone will be north of Neels tomorrow they going to run right into us.

minnesotasmith
03-19-2005, 13:03
Dances with Mice, after a dinner is cooked, it has to cool some before it is eaten (I don't handle extremely hot food in my mouth too well). Too, with a container large enough for all I want to drink, I can heat, and begin drinking, a bunch of liquid while my dinner is heating or cooling. Finally, I can have a bunch of hot drink at the same time as I eat my dinner; I don't have to wait until I'm done with one (eating or drinking) to have the other. See my reasoning?

IMO, anything that encourages a hiker to drink more liquid has a serious positive aspect in its favor.

Dances with Mice
03-19-2005, 19:30
Wrong order. Heat water for drink first then pour into cup or empty water bottle. Then cook supper. Drink hot drink while cooking, waiting to cool, and while eating. I did exactly that last night, I had 24 ounces of hot cider to sip while I made a chicken and rice dish. After finishing supper I could have made and other 24 oz hot drink but chose not to.

I've served hot drinks and hot supper for 3 from one pot, sometimes twice a day. But the main point is, take one pot on some overnighters. If you can't live without a second pot then add one. It's cheaper to find out you need to have something than to have something and find out you don't need it. And you can survive a weekend without a lot of stuff, even really necessary stuff.

Like I did last night without my hammock's tree huggers and stakes.

minnesotasmith
03-19-2005, 19:53
I could simply pour the hot liquid into that light plastic thermos I have, that I like to take along. It would probably be lighter than a second pot, I suppose.

Say, how does high-quality wool compare for sock material compared to the higher-end synthetic socks?

I still need a brand on the hand sanitizer, and on a synthetic sleeping bag manufacturer.

Guess I'll get started on a revised preliminary gear list to post here.

schwenkler
03-19-2005, 21:52
Would like to see the revised list.

Purell for the hand sanitizer, and nice wool socks (like Smartwool) are IMHO the greatest thing invented by man. There's about a million brands of synthetic sleeping bags.