View Full Version : What do you wear in your sleeping bag when it's cold?
I'm trying to get an idea of what most people do for maximum warmth in cold weather.
I know opinions vary. Some swear sleeping naked is warmest, some that piling on the clothing is warmest, some that just a base layer is best.
What works best for you?
Well, I've always thought just piling on the thermals and then down jacket was the thing to do (and then the rain gear!) but have recently read something that said that actually prevented the bag doing it's job. So, am interested in general opinion on this as well.
The article I read basically said you should just wear a light set of thermals and anything above that was counterproductive. Yeah, I know, doesn't necessarily "seem" to make sense.
kayak karl
01-29-2012, 19:39
In winter i strip down to briefs, socks and wool hat. nothing worst them wearing damp clothes to bed in cold weather. I sleep in a hammock and this has worked down to 0 degrees so far.
Define cold. I saw what Fairbanks had last night.
I do hat longjohns thick wool socks. Dry, clean, as can be. In reasonable chilly weather.
Sleeping warmer when naked can be true IF:
you otherwise wear DIRTY/WET clothing , even just dirty socks. (note that otherwise is not wise)
and or IF the SB becomes too tight and you compress the loft too much by doing so (this to a lesser extent)
BTW, regardless you sleep warmer when clean.
Very easy way to prove this.
At home turn the heating off in a room (could be the bathroom...)
Put your mat down and get inside your hopefully underrated bag.
Wait for half an hour or so. Put some thermal clothing on . Get back. Do you feel warmer or colder ?
Next night repeat in reverse order . Once you have taken your clothes off wait at least half an hour before you decide.
Of course if your bedroom is already "cool" try with and without thermal clothing under your blankets.
I have switched from a 20F bag plus thermals to a 32F with a light down jacket and pants as well as socks and hat if required.
The tot amount of down is about the same , the weight (in my pack...) is less because the pants and jacket I have with me anyway.
Again it is important not to sweat in those clothing so that they are dry when you get into the SB.
(I carry eVent rain gear for wet snow and have as few layers as possible when walking. IE I don't wear down when walking..)
In really cold areas (that is -30 plus) you need to wear clothing so that you don't lose too much heat during toilet breaks.
Franco
You know Tipi Walter hasn't posted in a while and I can assure you that he has slept out in weather colder than about 96% of the people here - I've been out at -18 or so Fahrenheit with wind temps at who knows what, so, I'd say that I'm qualified. I assume we're talking REAL cold here, right?
Speaking of Tipi - I think he is on a 20 day Joyce Kilmer, Snowbird Mountains trip - testing out his cold weather gear and safety equipment
25 degrees - fed, peed, long johns, good down bag like Western Mountaineering, Mont Bell, Marmot, whatever
15 degrees - pretty much the same rig plus wear your stocking cap - add a nalgene hot water bottle (don't cross- thread - have extra fuel) - Western Mountaineering 5 degree - overstuffed bag
5 degrees - both nalgene bottles full of hot water - wear stocking cap, socks, and gloves - add wearing down jacket if you want - I transition to the Feathered Friends Bag
When it's really cold (4 degrees to negative 20) I'm in my overstuffed -30 degree Feathered Friends Ptarmigan bag with the Mont Bell Vapor Barrier.
On top of this, I have to have extra fuel or absolutely reliable wood burning stove or fire because you must boil your water. Your water is stored in your bag with you in the form of Nalgene (or steel in socks) Hot Water Bottles - this serves a duel purpose of keeping you toasty warm and making sure that the precious water doesn't freeze. I also wear, my down jacket, down pants, and down booties at crazy temps like this. - It is also difficult to backpack more than about 8 miles a day in temps like this - the snow is usually deep.
Define cold. I saw what Fairbanks had last night.
This is my thermometer this morning.
15027
But I think cold is relative. If it's 20 degrees with a 25 degree bag, that's cold!
This is my thermometer this morning.
15027
But I think cold is relative. If it's 20 degrees with a 25 degree bag, that's cold!
dude, you're in Alaska - cool - well, -53 tops anything I've slept outside in - I've winter camped at Ruth Glacier but it was about -5. I've also done lots of days at -10 to -18 but I don't know what to say about -53 - that's beyond my pay grade. Really?
stranger
01-29-2012, 22:15
I don't sleep naked but I do believe that the more clothing you wear in a sleeping bag, the colder you will be. Sleeping bags have a single function - to trap air. Then the person inside the bag heats up the air trapped = you are warm. Wearing clothing restricts the ability to heat up the interior air = contradiction. How does it work in practice? Who the hell knows...all I know is that the more I wear, the colder and more uncomfortable I get - plus I don't like wearing much when I sleep anyhow (do you really want to sleep in a parka?). I wear lightweight long underwear tops and bottoms at night regardless of temperature, allows me to move freely inside the bag (not stick to it cause my skin is all grimy), keeps the bag clean (clothing gets dirty not the bag), I don't do it for insulation purposes. I also recommend wearing socks for the same reason. I know some people who swear by wearing their camp clothing in their bag and going with a lighter bag, it doesn't work for me, I've tried. The coldest night I had in 2008 was while wearing a down sweater inside a 25 deg Western Mountaineering bag, woke up about 15 times that night cold..... I had a night a week later that was colder...I just wore a light shirt, and slept through the night.
If I'm concerned about the temperature or the ability of my bag to function, I shake all the down to the top, I eat something just before going to bed, I do some light exercise before getting in the bag and I put on a down hat. Wearing a good, down hat will keep you warmer than anything else in my experience.
wornoutboots
01-29-2012, 22:50
I agree the more clothes you sleep in the colder you will be. In my down bag, naked is the warmest after hiking all day because my body continues to put off heat & it interacts with the down. It all depends though on the moment, a few weeks ago at Cold Spring Shelter, I was there with Sabi & Ripple, 2 flip floppers & it was snowing hard when I go there shortly after dark. The snow blew in on us all night long & it made my bag damp & I had to put all my clothes on in the middle of the night to stay warm & sleep. It was 10 degrees that night but I still did OK with my 15 degree bag
It's absolutely false that a base layer alone is warmest. If you have enough room in your bag, adding insulation can't help but make it warmer. If your bag is tight, any clothing you wear into it will get compressed and add little to your warmth.
Tip: if your bag fits tight, but you want to add some warmth, lay your down jacket over your bag when you go to sleep. Often it will slide off, however. I read somewhere that you could sew matching Velcro patches onto your jacket and bag to hold the jacket in place, but stitching into a down filled garment is risky unless you stitch through the perimeter seams.
Now, if you wear too much into your bag so that you sweat, you may find yourself cold when your body's metabolism slows down as you fall into a deep sleep, and the cold gets to your sweaty clothing.
I sleep in my base layer and down jacket and pants in my hammock in the winter. Sometimes I add a second, lighter bag. Whenever I need to get up, I don't have to rush around trying to pee as quickly as possible before I freeze to death.
I had to edit this in: When I was a newbie hiker I bought a bag which was much warmer than I needed it to be (and heavier). Over the years I found that
the concept of LAYERING can be used in a sleep system.
That is why I wear down clothing into my bag. If I did a thruhike NOBO, I would start off with a 40 degree and a 50 degree bag (nested) to be warm down to around 5 degrees with a down jacket and pants (which I could wear around camp). If there was an unexpectedly warm night (or nights, as on my '06 Georgia section hike in March), I could use either bag, with or without down clothing inside, to give me a comfort range of +5 to +50 (and then some) - far more of a range than one could possibly get from a single bag.
My 50 degree bag weighs exactly one pound and is semi-rectangular with a full zip and fits me like a glove. I have to wear my jacket over it and under my 40 degree bag,
which weighs 1-1/2 lbs. , so I'd be carrying essentially a 2-1/2 lb. bag which, with my clothing, gives me that +5 - +50 (and warmer) range. The clothing I would carry anyway, so I don't count it as part of the sleep system, but just fyi, the pants weigh 8oz. and the jacket with hood weighs 17oz.
Sleeping warmer when naked can be true IF:
you otherwise wear DIRTY/WET clothing , even just dirty socks. (note that otherwise is not wise)
and or IF the SB becomes too tight and you compress the loft too much by doing so (this to a lesser extent)
BTW, regardless you sleep warmer when clean.
Very easy way to prove this.
At home turn the heating off in a room (could be the bathroom...)
Put your mat down and get inside your hopefully underrated bag.
Wait for half an hour or so. Put some thermal clothing on . Get back. Do you feel warmer or colder ?
Next night repeat in reverse order . Once you have taken your clothes off wait at least half an hour before you decide.
Of course if your bedroom is already "cool" try with and without thermal clothing under your blankets.
I have switched from a 20F bag plus thermals to a 32F with a light down jacket and pants as well as socks and hat if required.
The tot amount of down is about the same , the weight (in my pack...) is less because the pants and jacket I have with me anyway.
Again it is important not to sweat in those clothing so that they are dry when you get into the SB.
(I carry eVent rain gear for wet snow and have as few layers as possible when walking. IE I don't wear down when walking..)
In really cold areas (that is -30 plus) you need to wear clothing so that you don't lose too much heat during toilet breaks.
Franco
I just read your post, Franco. It looks as though you have thought this out (and/or have some long-term experience). I could not agree more with your assessment.
Most of us have heard a saying to the affect "remove layers before you get too warm, add layers before you get too cold." As a rule of thumb, I think the same is true with a sleeping bag and clothing.
When it's very cool or moderately cold, I'm most comfortable with just a base layer, usually with clean, dry, sleeping socks, long underwear tops and bottoms, and a balaclava. If I put on my down jacket in my bag I'd likely sweat and end up colder. But if I can tell my sleeping bag is going to be marginal for the night, I'll start out with my base layers AND my down jacket on. Personally, I'll be warmer that way, for sure. One thing I know wouldn't work for me if I was chilled would be to take off a major insulating layer in an effort to warm up.
I don't understand the logic that "if you wear clothing in your bag you can't heat up your bag and you'll get cold." Why can't your body warm up the air in your bag? Because your clothing is retaining the heat next to your body. That's the point! That's a primary reason layers work, there are dead air spaces between the layers. Perhaps there are people who get really cold feet at night though, for whom their body heat needs to circulate in the bag at night to warm up their feet. Needless to say, people vary.
Layering has to be done right. An extra layer of wool socks will generally keep your feet warmer, but they can make your feet colder if they cause your feet to sweat excessively or if they constrict your circulation. An extra layer when hiking will keep you warmer unless you end up sweating which will make you colder in the long run.
TRAUMAhead
01-30-2012, 04:40
I have a Katabatic Gear Chisos (16.7oz) with 2oz overfill, making it from a 40* to about a 30* quilt, 9.1oz total down. I've only had the bag down to low 20s once, and I was a little less than comfortable wearing my Rab Microlight Alpine jacket w/ hood, synthetic tee, midweight longjohns, nylon hiking pants, and two pair of SmartWool socks. If I had down booties and threw on my balaclava, I think I would've been comfortable, and I'm on the cold sleeper side. I was also using the tuck method so I got drafts every now and then.
Before the quilt, I had a 15* and 20* bag, and only slept in my shirt and boxers. I always have my down jacket with me, so I figure I'd put it to use in my sleep system. I usually relax outside my tent after getting to camp, so I figure I'll add the down pants to help keep warm, which would also supplement the sleep system. And I know getting a warmer bag is lighter than the bag + puffy clothes, but wearing puffy clothes in camp before sleeping and in the morning is nice.
keithclove
01-30-2012, 10:08
I always change to a clean base layer before turning in...
Rocketman
01-30-2012, 11:04
It's absolutely false that a base layer alone is warmest. If you have enough room in your bag, adding insulation can't help but make it warmer. If your bag is tight, any clothing you wear into it will get compressed and add little to your warmth.
Now, if you wear too much into your bag so that you sweat, you may find yourself cold when your body's metabolism slows down as you fall into a deep sleep, and the cold gets to your sweaty clothing.
.
So, it seems to be true that adding insulation can't help but make it warmer but if you wear too much [insulation] into your bag so that you sweat, you may find yourself cold.........
You might want to change some of the detailed words.
Kerosene
01-30-2012, 11:19
I made several mistakes using my then-new WM UltraLite 20-degree bag my second night out in Georgia in April 2004 when the temperature was to drop below freezing. I attempted to wear all of my camp clothes to bed and this may have compromised the loft of the bag. In addition, I'll bet that my old Thermarest Prolite 3s wasn't up to the task of insulating me from the cold ground. Now, I don't usually sleep very well the first few nights out, but it wasn't a very comfortable night at all.
Smooth & Wasabi
01-30-2012, 11:19
I have to agree with others who say more clothes = more warmth. In my experience I believe without a doubt that if you have some room in your bag and your clothing is dry it is warmer to wear your clothing. This is part of the reason I went with a MB UL SS #3. I have plenty of room to wear puffy layers without compressing the loft. The last trip I used this bag (30f bag)on it was about 34F but with snow/sleet/rain so I got pretty chili from hiking and I went to bed with my puffy on. About an hour later I was too warm so I took off the puffy and was nice and toasty but not overheated for the rest of the night. Now this would not work if I tried to fit my very large frame with a puffy layer into a WM summerlite or other such snug bag or if I went to bed with my wet clothes on.
wornoutboots
01-30-2012, 11:25
A lot of it also depends on the person, I sleep very hot so for me the less clothing the better.
TeamLoblolly
01-30-2012, 11:58
I've never had a problem becoming cold after bundling up and sliding into my sleeping bag. In very cold situations, I wouldn't want to be in my boxers.
I think the issue gets muddled somewhat. I think most experienced ultralight backpackers believe that wearing insulating clothing in a bag is warmer than not wearing clothing in the same bag.
I also think that having a heavier bag with more insulation will be somewhat more comfortable for most people than a lighter bag + insulating clothing. But it's a tradeoff. The latter option usually results in a lighter pack and is a good choice when a light bag is warm enough for all but the coldest nights, because the pack will be more comfortable each day and layering will only be employed on some nights.
Those of you who think just a base layer is warmest: if you were shivering in your bag and had a down jacket handy and had a choice of either wearing it or leaving it in your pack, would you put it on or not? I think most would, and most would be warmer as a result.
Ultimately it's still a "hike your own hike" type of choice of course.
garlic08
01-30-2012, 15:48
Good poll subject, Colter.
I voted for base layer only. My jackets restrict my movement and compress the down in my bag. Many nights at or below my bag's rating have confirmed this for me. I agree completely that it's a very personal decision and depends on your bag and garments and how sedately you sleep. I would never tell someone that my method is better than his or hers, just that it's an option that can be tried.
garlic08
01-30-2012, 15:50
Once I had cold feet in my bag and I had a down vest with me. I tried wrapping my down vest around my feet inside my bag. That failed completely. Then I draped the vest over the foot box outside the bag--aah.
On the coldest night, I put everything on... gloves hood, extra sockets, etc. If I stay warm, then I know I bough just the right amount of clothes. If I have to peel stuff off, I packed too much. :)
swjohnsey
01-30-2012, 16:54
You got it!
stranger
01-30-2012, 20:58
I think the issue gets muddled somewhat. I think most experienced ultralight backpackers believe that wearing insulating clothing in a bag is warmer than not wearing clothing in the same bag.
I also think that having a heavier bag with more insulation will be somewhat more comfortable for most people than a lighter bag + insulating clothing. But it's a tradeoff. The latter option usually results in a lighter pack and is a good choice when a light bag is warm enough for all but the coldest nights, because the pack will be more comfortable each day and layering will only be employed on some nights.
Those of you who think just a base layer is warmest: if you were shivering in your bag and had a down jacket handy and had a choice of either wearing it or leaving it in your pack, would you put it on or not? I think most would, and most would be warmer as a result.
Ultimately it's still a "hike your own hike" type of choice of course.
Personally I would drape the down jacket over the top of my sleeping bag rather than put it on. The reason I would be cold is because the bag does not have enough insulation to trap the internal air, therefore the bag needs more insulation...I don't need more insulation. If this didn't work I would start walking.
stranger
01-30-2012, 21:01
Once I had cold feet in my bag and I had a down vest with me. I tried wrapping my down vest around my feet inside my bag. That failed completely. Then I draped the vest over the foot box outside the bag--aah.
Exactly...more insulation is good depending on 'where' it is. The body needs to radiate heat, restricting that process by adding insulated clothing to the body, thus restricting the ability for the body to heat up the sleeping bag air, make no sense to me.
"Wearing socks inside a sleeping bag makes me feel colder."
"Wearing socks inside a sleeping bag makes me feel warmer."
The two above statements can be correctly made by the same person , the same night.
How ?
Get a pair of tight, damp and dirty socks*. Get into bed without them; then (say after 15 min or so) put them on You will feel colder.
Get a pair of clean loose socks , do the same thing (having clean feet...) you will be warmer than without...
(try it at home, it does not cost anything )
* any of the three will do but they work best together.
Franco
Guiermo, on Jimmie Kimmel Live tonight, presents the ultimate answer. Bubble wrap. The solution has been right there all along!
BTW, the above comment was inspired by reading a comment along these lines "a liner protect my sleeping bag from the oil and dirt of my feet" at another forum.
That kind of reminded me that to some the connection between being clean and warm is not all that obvious.
Not long ago I posted that maybe that is one of the reasons why some find a particular SB rating accurate and others don't...
Franco
"Wearing socks inside a sleeping bag makes me feel colder."
"Wearing socks inside a sleeping bag makes me feel warmer."
The two above statements can be correctly made by the same person , the same night.
How ?
Get a pair of tight, damp and dirty socks*. Get into bed without them; then (say after 15 min or so) put them on You will feel colder.
Get a pair of clean loose socks , do the same thing (having clean feet...) you will be warmer than without...
(try it at home, it does not cost anything )
* any of the three will do but they work best together.
Franco
It's a good way to illustrate your post #5. I have a very similar sleeping insulation strategy to yours. It took me a while to adopt the habit of saving one pair of roomy, clean, dry socks just for sleeping.
Tom Murphy
01-31-2012, 11:46
Lots of good information in this thread:
- whenever possible, wear a clean and dry baselayer
- the purpose of your sleep system is to trap a layer of air around your body
- your metabolism is the source of the heat that warms the trapped air, therefore be sure to eat and drink well before bedtime
- similarily, raising your metabolism via exercise immediately before bedtime will help you warm-up the sleeping bag
- most types of sleeping bag insulations don't work as well if they are compressed, therefore if using layering concepts in your sleep system the layers need to fit together properly [for example I have used a MARMOT Sawtooth down 15F mummy bag inside a BA Encampment syn 15F semi-mummy bag in subzero temps with excellent results because the two bags fit so well together]
IMO
- quilts work well in most 3 season conditions but sleeping bag features such as a chest baffle tube, zipper draft tubes, and an intregrated hood provide a tremendous advantage over quilts in sub-zero winter conditions
- The only adavantage of the no base layer idea is that it allows heat from the core to heat the entire internal dead air space of the bag so that the extremities feel a higher surrounding temp, BUT this requires a sleeping bag that has already has adequate insulation for the ambient temps. When you are in a sleeping bag that is not adequate for the ambient temps you need to add more insulation in a mannner that does compromise the existing insulation OR break camp and start hiking.
Wool layers work best because of their capacity to absorb moisture, but you can't have all wool clothing because you won't be able to keep it all dry. So a mix of wool layers and polyester layers, and some sort of wind shell to reduce ventilation and add puffiness when you really need it. I sleep naked whenever I can, adding my wool layers as needed, then polyester layers if neccessary, even adding wind or rain shells into the mix sometimes, usually over some wool and under some fleece. Socks and mitts also. Hats and neck tubes very important. The critical thing is to get any clothing you wear, and the bag also, as dry as possible the following day, to be ready for the next night. Easier in summer. In winter, fire if neccessary, but not neccessarily fire. If you have enough food and fitness you should be able to use body heat to dry things out. Weather can come in some pretty nasty combination punches though, so keep the drying fire option open if you can.
Function is gaining on fashion. The yellow line is getting longer. ;)
I use a quilt or (if below 20 degrees) an oversized sleeping bag (WM Badger). This lets me wear layers without compressing my loft from underneath/inside. If it were 5-10 degrees below zero, for example, I'd probably just take off my boots, put on dry socks and down booties, and get into the 15 degree Badger with everything on that I was wearing in camp, which would be some kind of hooded puffy jacket and pants over base and mid-layers. I would distribute the vast majority of the Badger's down to be above me (am a fan of continuous baffles that allow you to do this) and would add a closed cell foam layer to a NeoAir to bring my pad R value to the 4-5 range.
It's all about inches of insulation and cutting down air movement. The details depend on what I've got with me relative to what I find when I'm out in it.
If I'm in a sleeping bag that has a wimpy draft collar--or none at all--improvising a draft collar by wrapping cloth around my head and neck can be more helpful that putting on another shirt or jacket.
Another factor for me, though, is the knowledge that eventually I'll have to get out of the bag, quite likely even during the dead of the night. So I dress in enough clothing that I can hop up, go find a friendly tree, and get back to bed without becoming unpleasantly chilled.
MaybeTomorrow
02-05-2012, 03:55
I like sleeping in socks, buff around the neck and on and off with a fleece hat for temp control.
Berserker
02-07-2012, 14:41
I wear my insulating layers in my bag when it's cold. I use a WM Caribou, so it has enough girth to accommodate my top (either a Patagonia Micropuff or Mont-Bell down jacket) and bottom (BPL Cocoon pants). There is no question that putting those clothes on and wearing them inside my bag adds a significant amount of warmth. It's even allowed me to almost exclusively carry my Caribou since I don't normally go out when lows will be below 25F. Sorry Versalite...I'll get you some bag nights here at some point.
I almost always sleep in just a base layer (silk). I do carry an appropriate bag for the conditions I expect though. While I find this most comfortable, you offered choices for a reply are limiting. If I hit unexpected cold, then adding some insulating layers inside the bag does add some warmth as long as not too much is added to compromise the loft of the bag from the inside. Laws of Physics and thermodynamics prove this is the case. More trapped dead air space equals more heat retention.
One often feels warmer quicker if they crawl into their bag naked, but that is just because they loose their body heat and transfer it to the dead air space in the bag insulation quicker. overall, that same quickness to transfer their heat to the bag will cause a greater loss as that heat is passed on through the bag. The slower heat loss that takes place when you wear a base layer or additional insulation can be deceiving initially.
hikerboy57
02-07-2012, 14:54
did somebody say a hat?Iwear a base layer in my winter bag, along with dry socks and hat. In my summer bag, just a base layer, which im more comfortable than naked.
From my experience of my PCT thru hike using the same down quilt for the entire distance. On cold nights, adding additional clothing layers noticably helped me stay warmer when I woke up cold. Of course this is a quilt where I have as much internal room inside as I want so no fear of compressing the down in the bag by adding layers. However, unless you are pretty large, most sleeping bags except some of the lighter bags like those by Western Mountainieering, should have plenty of room inside for wearing more layers.
Your sleeping pad insulation also plays into how warm you will sleep since any sleeping bag insulation under you is compressed and useless and cold ground can suck the heat out of you. So consider a thicker pad when you expect colder temps.
Sleeping naked is not a good idea for those on a long distance hike like the AT/PCT/CDT since your adding more dirt,sweat, and oil to your down insulation which can compromise it some. And trying to properly wash one while on the trail is too much of a pain to bother for most.
Tipi Walter
02-07-2012, 19:49
Sleeping warmer when naked can be true IF:
you otherwise wear DIRTY/WET clothing , even just dirty socks. (note that otherwise is not wise)
and or IF the SB becomes too tight and you compress the loft too much by doing so (this to a lesser extent)
BTW, regardless you sleep warmer when clean.
Franco
I ran the sleep-naked test during a winter storm in '82 in the mountains of NC with -10F temps. I had a top O the line down bag and tested out the theory that a human stays warmer when naked inside a bag. NOT TRUE. Try getting up in the middle of the night to pee and see what happens.
25 degrees - fed, peed, long johns, good down bag like Western Mountaineering, Mont Bell, Marmot, whatever
15 degrees - pretty much the same rig plus wear your stocking cap - add a nalgene hot water bottle (don't cross- thread - have extra fuel) - Western Mountaineering 5 degree - overstuffed bag
5 degrees - both nalgene bottles full of hot water - wear stocking cap, socks, and gloves - add wearing down jacket if you want - I transition to the Feathered Friends Bag
When it's really cold (4 degrees to negative 20) I'm in my overstuffed -30 degree Feathered Friends Ptarmigan bag with the Mont Bell Vapor Barrier.
On top of this, I have to have extra fuel or absolutely reliable wood burning stove or fire because you must boil your water. Your water is stored in your bag with you in the form of Nalgene (or steel in socks) Hot Water Bottles - this serves a duel purpose of keeping you toasty warm and making sure that the precious water doesn't freeze. I also wear, my down jacket, down pants, and down booties at crazy temps like this. - It is also difficult to backpack more than about 8 miles a day in temps like this - the snow is usually deep.
Your list reminds me of my winter Defcon Levels I put in a long ago trail journal---
THE DEFCON LEVELS
Defcon Level One: T-shirt and shorts
Two: Shorts, silk turtleneck and t-shirt over the turtleneck
Three: Shorts and thermal tops or t-shirt with rain jacket
Four: Thermal tops with hat and gloves and rain pants
Five: Thermal bottoms, pants, thermal tops/wool shirt and down jacket
Six: Everything and the rain jacket(level 5 includes the hats/gloves)
Seven: In the sleeping bag
Eight: In the sleeping bag with hot water bottles
Nine: Rescue by helicopter or fleeing on foot
Defcon Level Ten: Death by frostbite or hypothermia
I was just pointing out why some think so . Try putting on some dirty and or wet clothes and you will feel colder...
One thing that came to mind is that considering some do sleep naked and may not use a liner, I wonder how often they wash their bags...
Hint : at home most go to bed cleaner than on the trail yet they wash their sheets every week.
Franco
I ran the sleep-naked test during a winter storm in '82 in the mountains of NC with -10F temps. I had a top O the line down bag and tested out the theory that a human stays warmer when naked inside a bag. NOT TRUE. Try getting up in the middle of the night to pee and see what happens.
Your list reminds me of my winter Defcon Levels I put in a long ago trail journal---
THE DEFCON LEVELS
Defcon Level One: T-shirt and shorts
Two: Shorts, silk turtleneck and t-shirt over the turtleneck
Three: Shorts and thermal tops or t-shirt with rain jacket
Four: Thermal tops with hat and gloves and rain pants
Five: Thermal bottoms, pants, thermal tops/wool shirt and down jacket
Six: Everything and the rain jacket(level 5 includes the hats/gloves)
Seven: In the sleeping bag
Eight: In the sleeping bag with hot water bottles
Nine: Rescue by helicopter or fleeing on foot
Defcon Level Ten: Death by frostbite or hypothermia
HA HA HA HA HA - see you Saturday night - I don't think I've ever slept in my rain gear (at least, not at night) I might just advance to Defcon Level #9 - helicopters are so easy to come by in the forest and all - sort of like ordering a pizza, "yes, Mellow Mushroom, can I have one helicopter please?, yes, I'll hold, yes, um 45 minutes, wow, why so long, you guys must be busy, ok, $3,000.00, sure, I'll just pay cash and tip the driver - yes - Joyce Kilmer Forest, you know it, right? "it's negative 10 degrees here" just make a left in Robbinsville, great, thanks - yes - it's only 50,000 acres -you should see my little campfire - I'll just climb up this tree here any you can drop a rope to me, ok? good." Can I get some garlic bread with that too?"
naked in the sleeping bag is the way to go.. it is true. the bag traps air and your body heats it up. easy as that.
but keep in mind that at some point in the morning you'll have to get out of your sleeping bag.. and if it's cold outside it really sucks.. been there done that..
I sleep w/ long johns just to keep bag clean.
I think what happens is that the bag is out in the cold all day so when people slide in they feel the cold air from the day and assume they need to bundle up. But the job of a sleeping bag is to trap air. So if you give it a few minutes, your body heat will warm the bag up.
Layering in sleeping bags sucks. I've never had a good night sleep when 1 layer is going in 1 direction, a 2nd layer is in a different direction and a 3rd layer is in a 3rd direction. I would constantly be straightening the layers out. Even worse when you have underwear, long johns and sweatpants. Everything would get bunched up.
That's why you need to test your equipment before you actually go backpacking. If you have a 20 degree bag and you are cold, you need a warmer bag. You don't layer up because that defeats the purpose of the bag. It's weird concept to grasp because common sense says more layers=warmer but it's not neccessarily true.
Tenderheart
02-08-2012, 14:00
I'm trying to get an idea of what most people do for maximum warmth in cold weather.
I know opinions vary. Some swear sleeping naked is warmest, some that piling on the clothing is warmest, some that just a base layer is best.
What works best for you?
Dry technical clothing and a warm hat. Experts agree that 20, 30, 45, 65% of body heat is lost from the head.
naked in the sleeping bag is the way to go.. it is true. the bag traps air and your body heats it up. easy as that.
but keep in mind that at some point in the morning you'll have to get out of your sleeping bag.. and if it's cold outside it really sucks.. been there done that..
OK, this silliness has been going on for days and I have to chime in.
True, a sleeping bag is designed to trap the warm air radiating from your body, but so are clothes. Are you implying that your clothes are so good at trapping body heat that the air between your clothes and the inside of your bag won't warm up? If so, why do you even carry a sleeping bag? Just sleep in your clothes.
OK, this silliness has been going on for days and I have to chime in.
True, a sleeping bag is designed to trap the warm air radiating from your body, but so are clothes. Are you implying that your clothes are so good at trapping body heat that the air between your clothes and the inside of your bag won't warm up? If so, why do you even carry a sleeping bag? Just sleep in your clothes.
Thank you for saying that. I agree.
Layering is good. That's why I don't go naked under a super warm parka. I have a fairly warm parka and layer and peel as necessary, peeling before I sweat, and adding before I chill.
OK, this silliness has been going on for days and I have to chime in.
True, a sleeping bag is designed to trap the warm air radiating from your body, but so are clothes. Are you implying that your clothes are so good at trapping body heat that the air between your clothes and the inside of your bag won't warm up? If so, why do you even carry a sleeping bag? Just sleep in your clothes.
If a bag is rated to 20 degrees, you should be able to sleep in it naked down to 20 degrees and not get cold. The 20 degree rating isn't written in stone so that's why you should test the bag out before you go camping.
You can sleep in layers but the point is that it's not neccessary since the bag should be warm enough anyway. So why sleep in layers if you are going to be warm enough anyway?
If a bag is rated to 20 degrees, you should be able to sleep in it naked down to 20 degrees and not get cold. The 20 degree rating isn't written in stone so that's why you should test the bag out before you go camping.
You can sleep in layers but the point is that it's not neccessary since the bag should be warm enough anyway. So why sleep in layers if you are going to be warm enough anyway?
I like to go a light as I can and still be reasonably comfortable. That means I'll have just enough warm clothing so I don't have to immediately dive into my sleeping bag on a cold evening, or so I can sit at an overlook without getting cold.
Temperatures are on a bell curve, with some unusually warm nights, mostly moderate nights, and a few that are unusually cold. I carry a very light 30 degree down bag. It will easily keep me warm if I wear a base layer and hat and sleeping socks down to the "teens" or so. On the very coldest nights, it's not quite enough bag. Then I add my down jacket and sleep toasty down to about 10 degrees.
Lightweight backpacking is about not taking what you don't need, and finding multiple uses for items. Both clothing and my sleeping bag are insulation. If I can use my clothing for insulation day and night it's multi-use and I have a lighter pack. Of course, if relying on my insulating clothing for a cold night I have to keep it dry.