Do I need to replace my sleeping bag, or just learn how to use it better?

[Universe Man]

I'm very much a beginner hiker, but I know you ladies and gentlemen are gear experts, so I hope you don't mind if I pick your brains.<br><br>I have owned a Campmor 20-degree down sleeping bag for three years and I'm starting to become unsatisfied with its performance.<br><br>The bag has horizontal channels for the down that run the width of the bag. That is, the down is kept from pooling all at the head or foot, but there is nothing keeping it from pooling left or right. I understand that one benefit of this is that I can shake all the down to the topside of the bag for a cold night or to the bottom for a warm night. However, it seems that no matter how much I shake and fluff, I can't keep enough down on top of my body to insulate me.<br><br>Before I get in, I unzip it and shake all the down to the topside. Then I zip it and try to spread it out a little bit across the topside so that it's not simply one poofy channel of down along one side of the zipper. I get in and I feel fairly well insulated at first. But it seems like after just a little bit of shifting around, I will lie on my side and have absolutely no down covering my shoulder. This, specifically, is the big problem here: my top shoulder is always freezing because the down falls right off it and pools at my sides. I'm constantly shaking the bag around trying to insulate my shoulders.<br><br>What am I doing wrong? Has the down lost its loft? I've only washed it with mild soap (not detergent). I feel like I've taken very good care of it. When I first got it, I liked it... maybe it's deteriorated, or maybe I was just using it on warm nights at first. I'm very confused. Thank you for any advice.

[Universe Man]

Er, sorry for the lack of line breaks. Not sure why that happened, and not sure how to edit a post...

[Rocketman]

If you have a problem with more or less the top two or one of the horizontal down tubes, you could imagine getting some more down and getting it inserted into those tubes or down channels.

There are people who have done a lot of down bag and quilt modifications, so I'd rather let them describe how they actually do these types of modifications rather than me trying to remember their good advice and reproduce it.

Franco was one of the posters who has discussed easy ways to add down, if I remember good. The trick I am trying to remember uses nylon adhesive repair tape and seemed especailly easy. But there are a number of ways others have done it.

It may not be economical to ship the bag to someone to have them do it, but I have seen guys mention that they do that sort of thing.

[Franco]

hi
That one was not me but I did add some down to a quilt by shutting myself inside a fully sealed tent.
Still ended up with down flying about but inside a confined space...
One suggestion I have seen about transferring down was to wet it (maybe just some water sprays will do...)
Franco

[fiddlehead]

Sounds to me like a new bag is the answer.
I always bought good quality bags and never had that problem you mention.
Even now, after my FF Hummingbird has done 4 thru-hikes, although the down has seemed to disappear somewhat, it still doesn't shift like you are saying.
When I do another thru, I will buy another one now. As I sleep colder now and it's lost about 10 degrees with all those miles on it.
But, I'd buy the same one.

I love the size, and to me, that's one of the most important things in a bag.
It's like a glove. If it has extra room inside, it doesn't fit you right and you will be wasting energy heating up that extra space.

It's not easy to find one that fits perfectly. I don't know where you'd go. I have an old LL Bean bag that's close but, not as close as the FF bag.

I bought a 0 deg FF bag (forget the model) and it is just too big for me and I rarely use it.
But again, the down doesn't shift that i've ever been aware of.

[garlic08]

The Campmor bag was my first down bag and it lasted a thru hike of the PCT and then some before I replaced it with a higher quality down bag. I also had the same issues with it, and chalked it up to "you get what you pay for".

[tuswm]

I would first try a good wash with nikwax (down soap) you can get it at REI or off the web. then I would follow washing instructins form marmot.com. it will cost you like ten bucks. that made my old crappy REI bag like new. and for the price you have all most nothing to loose.

[stranger]

Continuous baffles have drawbacks...one of them is not having equal down coverage around the sleeping bag. There are bags with side block baffles, just have to look for them. I'm a stomach sleeper and had your exact sleeping bag, never had a problem with it, the key is not moving the bag when you twist or turn, so when you turn on your side, are you taking the bag with you? If so this could be your problem. Is the bag tight? If you are on your side and have broad shoulders, you might compress the insulation and get cold. It's hard to say.

Also, you mentioned you washed it. How thorough was the rinsing? Most people recommend running the bag through a washer with no soap after washing the bag, or 5-6 rinses in a bathtub. Having soap residue on your down has the same affect as dirt and grime, but only if you didn't rinse properly.

Campmor hasn't changed those bags in years, just call them up and say you bought it 10 months ago, blah, blah...they are pretty good, I worked for them for 10 years. Might get store credit

[Franco]

"Campmor hasn't changed those bags in years, just call them up and say you bought it 10 months ago, blah, blah...they are pretty good, I worked for them for 10 years. Might get store credit "

Great advice. I hope you don't mind when a manufacturer rips you off.
And make sure you add that to your resume when you apply for the next job.

Franco

[Wil]

I did add some down to a quilt by shutting myself inside a fully sealed tent.
Still ended up with down flying about but inside a confined spaceNOT a pretty picture, Franco.

Garlic's post is right on here; just not a good bag. I'm not sure what can be done to try to improve a bad bag, but the good manufacturers are well-defined here, with somewhat subtle differences among a group of high quality bags. I don't believe in the saying "you get what you pay for"; there are almost always bargains if you look hard enough. But there are no huge bargains (warmth per weight) in sleeping bags.

[Wil]

Er, sorry for the lack of line breaks. Not sure why that happened, and not sure how to edit a post...You are expected to PAY for the privilege of not inflicting pain on all of us.

[Tinker]

You are expected to PAY for the privilege of not inflicting pain on all of us.

To the O.P.

Just hit the enter button when you want to start a new line.

If you want to edit, you must be a donating member (what Wil meant). :)

[stranger]

"Campmor hasn't changed those bags in years, just call them up and say you bought it 10 months ago, blah, blah...they are pretty good, I worked for them for 10 years. Might get store credit "

Great advice. I hope you don't mind when a manufacturer rips you off.
And make sure you add that to your resume when you apply for the next job.

Franco

Yeah...I'm all broken up about pulling one over on Campmor, that company has done more to destroy high end 'Mom and Pop' shops than any other outfitter in the United States. Some good people work there, no doubt, but they are the Walmart of the outdoor industry. They hold companies randsom, force them to drop wholesale prices or threaten to drop the line, then can sell products cheaper than other shops can buy them. Poor Campmor...

[Feral Bill]

Marketing politics aside, get a different bag. It's you last refuge when things get nasty, and a good one lasts for years and years. By from REI or another retailer with a satisfaction guarantee.

[hikerboy57]

Yeah...I'm all broken up about pulling one over on Campmor, that company has done more to destroy high end 'Mom and Pop' shops than any other outfitter in the United States. Some good people work there, no doubt, but they are the Walmart of the outdoor industry. They hold companies randsom, force them to drop wholesale prices or threaten to drop the line, then can sell products cheaper than other shops can buy them. Poor Campmor...although im still on the mailing list, i really dont see the same names i used to be able to buy, havent used them in a few years.
buy a new bag.4 things i dont skimp on- bag, tent, pack,shoes.

[stranger]

Marmot makes great down bags for a multiple price points

[Sierra Echo]

the only thing i know about down is when i sleep near it, my nose stops up and I snore. Loudly.

[STICK]

+1 on the Marmot bags. I love my Helium.

[hunter121]

Thanks for this post guys I was going through the same thing
http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/20.creation.jpg

[Papa D]

Dude - Get a Western Mountaineering bag or a Feathered Friends Bag - I'm NOT a spendthrift but, "The cheap man (or woman) spends (and suffers) the most."

[birdygal]

I really do not know alot about sleeping bags or down but I am an avid quilter , You may want to try doing some more quilting on it of course make sure your down is where you want it before sewing. Make sure your sewing machine has a new sharp needle and a small size like 12 use a longer stitch lenght also so the stitching will be easier to take out if it does not work. the extra sewing lines will make the down shift less

[JAK]

I got a 20F Kelty Bag for $50 on sale at Marden's in Houlton Maine.

20oz fill + 20oz shell = 40oz.
550fill, but it fits me perfect, and seems otherwise well put together.
850fill would have been 1/2 pound lighter, or perhaps 20deg warmer for same weight.
For a thru-hike I would probably spend more to save the 1/2 pound, but $50 is a good deal.

[slow]

I just put 9oz of down in my nunatak quilt and lost no down at all.Just use a large paper bag to hold the down.Use a paper towel insert and close one end with a cutup stocking.Place insert in paper bag and fill the tube with down and then blow the down in the the baffle with the stocking to your mouth...DONE and it is easy.

[Rockie]

I just put 9oz of down in my nunatak quilt
I was just about ready to order a bag from Nunatak but am wondering, based on your having to add down, if maybe that's not such a good idea. I've never had a down bag and am unsure. Any thoughts or advice about Nunatak bags?