HEET as alcohol fuel

[maintenance man]

I've read a few threads about using Heet in place of denatured alcohol in "pop can" style stoves, but still have a couple question the answer to which I hope I just didn't over look in what I read.

1. will Heet soot up my cookware like some other liquid fuels, ie. rubbing alcohol

2. can it be shipped/carried on a plane, unlike denatured alcohol which airlines consider a combustible liquid

3. has anyone done consumption tests, you know the old 2 tablespoons boiling 2 cups of water in 5 minutes routine

Thanks for your responses,
maintenance man

[Peaks]

Heet in the yellow bottle should not soot up pots. Heet in the red bottle will.

NO, it can not be shipped on airplanes. It's a combustable.

[jlb2012]

1.) if you use the yellow bottle HEET it will not soot up the pot; if on the other hand you get the red bottle HEET (aka Iso-Heet) then it will soot up the pot

2.) you can not ship it on a plane - no difference from denatured as far as regs

3.) do a search on whiteblaze or over on hikinghq and you will probably find a lot of performance info - my experience is that yellow bottle HEET is just about the same as denatured - maybe a little bit less efficient but almost the same

[Youngblood]

Just a little clarification. There are other brands, besides HEET, of 12 ounce 'gas line anti-freeze' or 'absorb moisture in fuel tank' products. The prefered ones for alcohol stoves will say "contains methyl alcohol" under the "Danger Poision" part of the label... these burn clean. If it says "contains isopropyl alcohol" then it doesn't burn clean and will leave heavy soot on the bottom of your cooking pot.

Youngblood

[-MYST-]

Just a little clarification. There are other brands, besides HEET, of 12 ounce 'gas line anti-freeze' or 'absorb moisture in fuel tank' products. The prefered ones for alcohol stoves will say "contains methyl alcohol" under the "Danger Poision" part of the label... these burn clean. If it says "contains isopropyl alcohol" then it doesn't burn clean and will leave heavy soot on the bottem of you cooking pot.

Youngblood
Exactly correct. The other thing is Denatured alcohol and HEET are virtually the same thing, both are methyl alcohol, both do not soot your pots.

Ga->ME'04

[Tha Wookie]

For the record, in my own non-scientific experience for hundreds of alcohol stove dinners, I've noticed that HEET does not last as long as denatured alcohol for burn time.

[SGT Rock]

You are correct Wookie. HEET is almost pure methyl which has lower BTUs per pound than ethyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol has some mix of ethyl and methyl. I have seen different brands of denatured with mixes varrying from 50-50 to 10% methyl-90% ethyl. You won't find the mix on the can, but you can generally find it by googling the MSDS of the brand name. Here is the results from a google for denatured alcohol that turned up this brand: http://www.emedco.com/emed2/resource/msds/msds_view.asp?pd=ch&pf=clftk

In this case it is 85% Ethyl, 4.29% Methyl, and 9.01% Isopropyl. The remainder were some keytones. Since this brand is mainly ethyl, it would have more BTUs and thus last longer than yellow bottle HEET.

[minnesotasmith]

Denatured alcohol is normally mainly ethanol (made undrinkable by addition of 5 -10% of other stuff, such as methanol), which gives off more heat per volume when burned (something like over 50% more) than methanol does. I don't much like the idea of dealing with methanol more than I have to, such as in deep winter when ethanol has a harder time lighting than meth does, it's such a nasty poison, even from skin contact alone.

Previous thread with detailed information on the different alcohol fuels:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?t=2607&page=1&pp=20&highlight=ethanol

[-MYST-]

So not all denatured alcohol is the same. The one problem I had with denatured alcohol when bought along the trail was quality varied widely. I blew it off as some diluting their alcohol for sale with water, but maybe some of it was just the differences in brand. I always tried to get "HEET" first, another brand of gas line antifreeze that is methyl based, then denatured, and if I was really jones it I would settle for Isopropyl (rubbing alcohol) , which could be found virtually anywhere, bnut does soot pretty bad. Did anyone else that had to use isopropyl notice longer burn times compared with other alcohols?

[bitpusher]

Rubbing alcohol is usually 30% water, and this will lengthen your burn time. I have mixed water with denatured alcohol in an alcohol stove to lower heat and lengthen burn time before. Leaves some water behind sometimes.

[Singletrack]

You are correct Wookie. HEET is almost pure methyl which has lower BTUs per pound than ethyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol has some mix of ethyl and methyl. I have seen different brands of denatured with mixes varrying from 50-50 to 10% methyl-90% ethyl. You won't find the mix on the can, but you can generally find it by googling the MSDS of the brand name. Here is the results from a google for denatured alcohol that turned up this brand: http://www.emedco.com/emed2/resource/msds/msds_view.asp?pd=ch&pf=clftk

In this case it is 85% Ethyl, 4.29% Methyl, and 9.01% Isopropyl. The remainder were some keytones. Since this brand is mainly ethyl, it would have more BTUs and thus last longer than yellow bottle HEET.
You must be right, because I purchased some denatured alcohol at Walmart here in Georgia. Had no soot on my pot. Must have been 100% methyl. When I purchased denatured in Maine, it sooted my pot. Must of had a mixture. I will be more careful on the Brand I use from now on.

[Alligator]

Since we have the attention of the alcohol gurus. When I do use my alcohol stove, I use Parks brand, pure denatured alcohol bought in a gallon container from Wal-mart. I had trouble finding a gallon container anywhere else. This stuff smells. It is labeled for stove use. It contains ethanol, acetone, methanol and methyl isobutyl ketone. Is it the acetone? I prefer to buy a larger container due to cost savings and of something that does not leave a horrible odor if spilled.

From the can
"The finest ethyl alcohol combined with small amounts of methanol and other chemicals to denature it and make it poisonous."

From the website http://www.parkscorp.com/solvents.html
Denatured Alcohol
The safest, purest grade of denatured ethyl alcohol.
Thinning: Alcohol is used to thin shellac based products only. Use with clear or orange shellac or pigmented shellac primers. Do not use with other finishes.
Cleaning: A specialty cleaner. Use to clean painting tools after using shellac. Will soften dry or hard shellac. Can dissolve most inks, lipsticks, crayons and many other stains. General: This is the best grade of fuel for alcohol chafing dishes and stoves. Complete combustion produces no harmful gases or vapor. Alcohol is soluble in water and can be used as an anti-freeze agent. However, it evaporates rapidly and is flammable. Read cautions on the container before using.

Can Sizes: 5-Gallon, Gallon, Quart

My question is does anyone have a brand name of a one gallon size that does not smell this way?

[minnesotasmith]

"This stuff smells. It is labeled for stove use. It contains ethanol, acetone, methanol and methyl isobutyl ketone. Is it the acetone?"

I'd say it was probably mainly the MIK, which is a common denaturant. Fingernail polish remover = acetone (often with a trace of fragrance and a 1000% mark-up), so you can compare acetone's odor if you really want to (it's not that hazardous to health, saving only its great flammability). I don't know what the odor of methanol is like, having intentionally never gotten my nose that close to it; it really is a nasty poison.

As far as other legal and accepted formulas for denatured ethanol go, there are hundreds or thousands. The ATF maintains a reference on this, with formulae ranging from denaturants such as pine tar to methanol to gasoline to Bitrex (denatonium benzoate, one of the bitterest substances known to man).

You will want a denatured ethanol whose formula won't clog a stove, and will allow for ignition below that of ethanol in cold weather. That formula above that you provided qualifies nicely.

[Alligator]

Thank you MS. I also read that it is not required to list the denaturants, so it could be a problem if they needed to be identified. I will stick to those products labeled as good for stove use, or others mentioned by forum participants. I bring my white gas stove exclusively in winter as I warm my drinking water to avoid freezing. Also, a wooden match helps to light cold stoves if needed. But it does help to have a good mixture so I will keep the ignition point in mind.

[minnesotasmith]

'I also read that it is not required to list the denaturants, so it could be a problem if they needed to be identified"

If you know the intended end use, there will be only one or a very small number of ATF-approved denaturant formulae for that use; thus, the end use generally gives away the denaturant for legally sold alcohol products. As interested in denatured alcohol formulae as you are, you might want to take a look at the appropriate section of the ATF reference book.

[Clark Fork]

You are correct Wookie. HEET is almost pure methyl which has lower BTUs per pound than ethyl alcohol. Denatured alcohol has some mix of ethyl and methyl. I have seen different brands of denatured with mixes varrying from 50-50 to 10% methyl-90% ethyl. You won't find the mix on the can, but you can generally find it by googling the MSDS of the brand name. Here is the results from a google for denatured alcohol that turned up this brand: http://www.emedco.com/emed2/resource/msds/msds_view.asp?pd=ch&pf=clftk

In this case it is 85% Ethyl, 4.29% Methyl, and 9.01% Isopropyl. The remainder were some keytones. Since this brand is mainly ethyl, it would have more BTUs and thus last longer than yellow bottle HEET.SGT Rock:

Some are leary of stuff meant for gas tanks (Heet) and the stupid snap on cap. Why not find the best stuff, apply for distributorship and sell it along with your stove. You could solve a lot of woes by selling it to the shops along the trail or for that matter mail dropping it for folks (if allowed). It sure would take the guess work out of the question. Probably the container is the key and you might work out a deal where it could be put in a container that would be safe and the right size. Bulk sales might be good too.

On the container side, have you found a good container? What do you recommend? Why not sell the container?

Thanks,

Clark Fork in Western Montana

P.S. On the products I would like to see list, I would have an interest on some way of not cooking on the ground. Out here in the wilds of Montana there are no shelter tables, shelters platforms, etc. We cook on the ground or sometimes a rock. I wish there was a light, very light shelf,you could cantilever off a tree so you could cook at a decent level. Coleman makes a montrosity that is too heavy to contemplate but a much smaller one might work and be bearable over long distance. Just a thought as you torture all that metal making stoves.

[minnesotasmith]

Why not make yourself something on the same principle as a deer tree stand? I''l bet the weight-to-capacity ratio would be perfectly acceptable to you.

[Youngblood]

...Why not find the best stuff, apply for distributorship and sell it along with your stove. You could solve a lot of woes by selling it to the shops along the trail or for that matter mail dropping it for folks (if allowed). It sure would take the guess work out of the question. Probably the container is the key and you might work out a deal where it could be put in a container that would be safe and the right size. Bulk sales might be good too....That sounds like a line out of the old Robert Mitchum movie "Thunder Road"... you trying to get Sarge in the 'shine business? :)