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RWheeler
01-31-2012, 20:46
In the time leading up to my departure for the trail, I've been doing whatever I can to keep my mind off of the actual hike, so I don't go crazy with it being so far away still. One of the things I've been doing a lot of recently is baking, something I used to do very very frequently.

I've been getting more into baking fresh bread - it's easily my favorite thing to make. Recently, I've started making sourdough, which I originally avoided due to the unfamiliarity of making starter. Once I finally gave it a try though, I realized how simple and rewarding it is.

Now, the thing to keep in mind is that the taste you get from sourdough is very very dependent on the yeast that you use to ferment the flour in the early stages. These vary a lot by region (hence why San Francisco sourdough is really its own thing - the yeasts that occur naturally in that area, along with the climate, makes for a very identifiable starter), giving me the idea of catching some yeast during my upcoming thru to create an Appalachian starter.

The basic process for those unfamiliar actually seems very hiker-friendly for the most part. You start by adding a few tablespoons of flour with a little liquid to mix up a paste. You can use water, or more effectively, an acidic pH juice (i.e. pineapple). Let that sit for a couple of days, uncovered, and yeast and bacteria that are in the environment will find their way into the mixture, then start to digest the sugars in the flours (and juice), releasing alcohol as a by-product and dividing to create more yeast. All you have to do is feed the starter some more flour, and add some more liquid volume, and after a couple of days, you have a nice volume of fermented starter. Boom. Take a portion of that (leaving some behind to keep the starter stock going, just keep feeding) and mix with some flour and water and then from there, continue like you're making normal bread.

I was thinking that I could use a Ziploc bag to hold the starter, maybe keeping it in one of the external pockets of my pack so I can keep it exposed to the air and just add some flour to it every now and again. Then the next time I decide to stop at a hostel I can bake up some sourdough rolls as a nice change of food-pace. If the starter ends up being a good flavor, I'll keep it and continue to maintain it once I finish the trail.

Do any WB members bake bread regularly that may have any feedback on this? I know the daytime temperatures will be very ideal in terms of getting a very active starter. What I'm worried about is if I might risk killing the yeast I have from overnight temps (i.e. would it be better to risk killing yeast from cold by closing the Ziploc and hanging it in my food bag, or better to maybe keep it in my sleeping bag for the warmth?) or what to do with the starter on rainy days. I know there are probably better places where I can ask this, but it's worth a shot asking here. WB likes new stuff sometimes, right? :cool:

Maren
01-31-2012, 21:07
The overnight temps, as long as they're not extremely low, will only slow down the process. This could actually work in your favor as you wouldn't have to feed it as often. The problem I see is the Ziplock bag. The process by which yeast digests the starches, fermentation, creates a lot of gas. You could have a bubbling, overflowing mess on your hands in no time at all (think rising bread dough). Closing the Ziplock for any amount of time is a bad idea as the yeast could put off enough gas to cause the bag to explode. I doubt you want that sticky mess coating the inside of your food bag!

RWheeler
01-31-2012, 21:15
Well during the day, I was planning to leave the bag open. But at night, I suppose I could remove as much air as possible before sealing it so it has extra volume to expand, and possibly put that Ziploc into a larger Ziploc as a spill-over? I figured I'd be starting with a very small volume, anyway - I'm thinking enough to fill the bottom 1/5 or 1/4 of a sandwich-size Ziploc, then just feed two or three tablespoons a day, so maybe a quart-sized bag as spill-over when I hang it at night?

Also, do you have any ideas how using water treated with AquaMira might affect the yeast after the starter is established with the pineapple juice?

Maren
01-31-2012, 21:27
I wonder if removing the air would affect the yeast negatively as you'd be effectively removing the oxygen. As for the Aquamira, tap water is usually treated with the same chemicals so while it probably does affect the taste it wouldn't be any more than if you used unfiltered water from your kitchen faucet.
Maybe try experimenting at home replicating as closely as possible the conditions the yeast would be exposed to on the trail. It's certainly worth a try, and I'd be curious as to the results.

Rasty
01-31-2012, 21:36
Also remember that your water/flour density will affect your sour. Firmer sour will develop a nuttier intense flavor. Firm starters are used for pain au leavian. San fran sour is a looser sour.

Maren
01-31-2012, 21:39
+1 rastraikis
And the length of time you allow to grow will affect the flavor. The longer it grows the more the flavor develops.

RWheeler
01-31-2012, 21:41
I wonder if removing the air would affect the yeast negatively as you'd be effectively removing the oxygen. As for the Aquamira, tap water is usually treated with the same chemicals so while it probably does affect the taste it wouldn't be any more than if you used unfiltered water from your kitchen faucet.
Maybe try experimenting at home replicating as closely as possible the conditions the yeast would be exposed to on the trail. It's certainly worth a try, and I'd be curious as to the results.

The problem with that is it's way cooler here right now that it's going to be outside in April/May, but maybe I'll use AquaMira treated water to make it, leave it out on the counter like I normally do, and just put it in the fridge overnight zipped up with air removed. See what happens.


Also remember that your water/flour density will affect your sour. Firmer sour will develop a nuttier intense flavor. Firm starters are used for pain au leavian. San fran sour is a looser sour.

I tend to aim for a consistency of slightly waterier than pancake batter to start, and progressively make it firmer by adjusting the feed. I've never really messed around with different consistencies, though... that'll be an interesting point to consider.

quilteresq
01-31-2012, 21:54
The consistency doesn't matter a lot - and whoever said that the cool temps will just slow it down is right - you can freeze sourdough starter and it should be fine. The feeding schedule is more important than any other factor. I have experience killing numerous starters, so I know what I'm talking about here. (The problem in my case was that my daughter didn't like sourdough, so I'd let it sit too long without feeding it.) I'll look forward to seeing whether or not you succeed here - and look forward to your bread and other sourdough reviews. I love sourdough pancakes!

I would definitely think twice about keeping it in my tent, though. Food is food, and it's pretty aromatic. Why chance it?

Rasty
01-31-2012, 21:55
The chance of killing yeast with low temps is extremely low. You can freeze yeast and it only slows it down. Artisan bakers tend to store their sours in the walkin cooler which is around 38°F. The cooler temp is more consistent than room temp. The only drawback to cooler temps is flavor development will mostly stop at approx 34°F. The warmer is gets the firmer your sour needs to be for it to maintain control of its self. At approx 45°F you will need to have air holes or the CO2 will burst any plastic bag.

RWheeler
01-31-2012, 22:06
+1 rastraikis
And the length of time you allow to grow will affect the flavor. The longer it grows the more the flavor develops.

Good thing I'll have plenty of time to make it work :D


The consistency doesn't matter a lot - and whoever said that the cool temps will just slow it down is right - you can freeze sourdough starter and it should be fine. The feeding schedule is more important than any other factor. I have experience killing numerous starters, so I know what I'm talking about here. (The problem in my case was that my daughter didn't like sourdough, so I'd let it sit too long without feeding it.) I'll look forward to seeing whether or not you succeed here - and look forward to your bread and other sourdough reviews. I love sourdough pancakes!

I would definitely think twice about keeping it in my tent, though. Food is food, and it's pretty aromatic. Why chance it?

I figure I can feed it at night when I get to camp, before I hang my bag for the night, which should be long enough for overnight and the morning, then feed it again once I stop for lunch -- that sound fair? And if I can hang it without killing it, I see absolutely no reason to keep it in my tent. It'll just be like tucking the yeast in for the night :)

Another question - once I get a hardy starter established, what should I do if I want to mail some off-trail so I don't need to keep carrying it? Can I just move it into a larger bag (or bottle), give it a good amount of flour and water so it'll be fed for a while, and mail it normally? Then have whoever I send it to feed it when they get it and then pop it in a fridge/freezer? I really don't plan on carrying it for the entire trip... although if it isn't that demanding, maybe I will.

Rasty
01-31-2012, 22:27
If you have extra starter incorporate into your batch. You may be disappointed in sour that was not feed while in the mail.

RWheeler
01-31-2012, 22:33
Well, I'm hoping to get the starter back home somehow so I can continue to feed it and keep making bread from it well after I'd finished hiking. Is that going to be too difficult to do?

Rasty
01-31-2012, 22:36
Send it overnight or two day. When the yeast eats the available sugar it starts to die. You could freeze it before mailing.

WingedMonkey
01-31-2012, 23:01
I know there are probably better places where I can ask this, but it's worth a shot asking here. WB likes new stuff sometimes, right? :cool:

This kinda reminds me of a thread from last year. A member was planning on completing a south bound thru, they were planning on growing sprouts the whole time on the trail.

Lots of imaginative ideas.
But, I don't think either ended up happening
:sun

Maren
01-31-2012, 23:39
This kinda reminds me of a thread from last year. A member was planning on completing a south bound thru, they were planning on growing sprouts the whole time on the trail.

Lots of imaginative ideas.
But, I don't think either ended up happening
:sun

But it can be done! http://outdoorherbivore.com/trail-sprouting/

WingedMonkey
01-31-2012, 23:48
But it can be done! http://outdoorherbivore.com/trail-sprouting/

Cool, let me know when you find someone that has completed a thru hike while doing it. I got nothing against imagination.

Maren
02-01-2012, 00:22
Gardening while hiking does seem to be a little much. That being said, I'm now curious to see just how much of a pain it is or isn't. Might have to buy a hemp bag.

hunter121
02-01-2012, 03:42
Ahh! I stand corrected then, Thanks for clearing that up.
http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/20.creation.jpg

moytoy
02-01-2012, 04:56
I wish you well with this project but I'm thinking the varments are going to love you RW.