View Full Version : Backpack weight
Drybones
02-02-2012, 15:28
I have a fairly new REI Flash 65 that weighs 3lb, 3oz and is a pretty decent pack. I have my cold weather pack weight down to 26-27 (includes supplies for 4 days) pounds depending on what exactly I end up taking. I'm considering the purchase of the new Granite Gear Crown A.C. 60 when it becomes available. I believe it weighs 2lb, 2oz...is it worth $220 to save a pound?
It depends on how much walking comfort is worth to you, and if the AC60 rides as comfortably has the Flash.
garlic08
02-02-2012, 15:39
I made the leap from a three-plus pound pack similar to the REI to a one-pound frameless pack for only about $120, and that was certainly worth it for me. No, I don't think I would spend $220 on that pack. There are plenty of frameless packs that can handle 30 pounds (Gossamer Gear, SixMoon, et al), but are you ready to make that leap?
pyroman53
02-02-2012, 15:54
but are you ready to make that leap?
That's a scary leap...one I expect I will make one day. sddavis: I recently made a similar move to the one you are asking about, dropping down to the ULA Circuit (from the GG Nibus Ozone) and feel that was worth it, probably not in economic terms, but in the fact that I had to continue to "simplify" my gear.
Moving to the frameless pack brings me back to that "fear" discussion. I just worry (fear!!) that I might need the extra carrying capacity for long hauls between food or water sources, especially since I'm not the fastest hiker out there!!
dandandan
02-02-2012, 16:05
That is a lot of money to drop a pound. While I dont know exactly what you're taking, you could probably drop over a pound for free by simply leaving some things at home.
Lightest one I have seen is the Z pack cuban fiber at 9 oz.....now that is light :)
I have a REI Morningstar pack from the mid - 1980s that I modified back in the early 2000s by shortening all the straps and removing the top pocket. I can't remember exactly what it weighs now, but I believe that I took 1-1/2 lb. off of it. Without the top pocket I really need to use a rain cover now, since the closure is just a draw cord, but, since I've purchased a couple of much lighter frameless packs I don't use it for hiking anymore. It's my trail maintenance pack. The back padding, stays, and heavier fabric make it a good hauler for my chainsaw and clippers.
OP - Try removing your frame stays and replacing them with a blue foam pad unrolled vertically in your pack. For the weight of the pad you'll have a free "frame" which doubles as a sleeping pad (if you can stand the firmness).
Since I've gone frameless I've only used my blue foam on a couple of near emergency occasions for sleeping, and did ok. It's not hammocking, though!
www.golite.com (http://www.golite.com) is having a mega sale now. Jam packs were something like $69.00.
Just double-checked.
Yep - $69.00. Wrongway_08 used one on his thru.
pyroman53
02-02-2012, 17:14
Try removing your frame stays and replacing them with a blue foam pad unrolled vertically in your pack.
That will give you the chance to see how you might do with a frameless pack...I like that!!
That will give you the chance to see how you might do with a frameless pack...I like that!!
If you get a frameless pack it's more crucial that it fit your torso length well. I lucked out with my large Golite Dawn and my large Granite Gear Virga pack. Have a qualified salesperson measure your torso and keep the measurements for future reference.
OP - Try removing your frame stays and replacing them with a blue foam pad unrolled vertically in your pack. For the weight of the pad you'll have a free "frame" which doubles as a sleeping pad (if you can stand the firmness).
I just got back yesterday from 43 miles on the PCT doing this. I took the frame out of my ULA Catalyst and used a blue foam pad. It worked great as a frame, but I wasn't really crazy about how it influenced the order in which I packed and unpacked.
I've also borrowed a pack that uses a z-rest for the back pad. I liked it as a pack, but hated the short pad when I was sleeping...I kept wiggling around and the pad wouldn't stay under me like a longer pad would.
I had a GVP G4 pack which had a pocket for a pad. It was good padding for the back but very poor as far as supporting the load is concerned. I tried my old method of placing the pad inside the pack (been doing this for years - since 1993 with a heavy Thermarest), and found that the shape of the pack (big at the bottom) did not work well with this arrangement - so I sold it and bought the Golite Dawn - I love that pack and wish they would bring it back. It is awesome in its simplicity - fewer seams to fray or split than most packs, with a solid Dyneema bottom - fantastic! (but, unfortunately, too basic - not enough bells and whistles- for the regular hiking crowd - so they discontinued it in favor of sleeker looking packs with hydration sleeves and more pockets). A pack shaped like a bucket is best for the "ccf pad used as a pack liner/frame" method.
MuddyWaters
02-02-2012, 21:11
I have a fairly new REI Flash 65 that weighs 3lb, 3oz and is a pretty decent pack. I have my cold weather pack weight down to 26-27 (includes supplies for 4 days) pounds depending on what exactly I end up taking. I'm considering the purchase of the new Granite Gear Crown A.C. 60 when it becomes available. I believe it weighs 2lb, 2oz...is it worth $220 to save a pound?
It might be worth it to have a pack that doesnt fall apart on you. Heard of more than one REI falling apart on the trail.
Ohio Grown
02-03-2012, 12:21
It might be worth it to have a pack that doesnt fall apart on you. Heard of more than one REI falling apart on the trail.
Yes. I recently spoke to a REI employee and former thru-hiker who told me while some of their packs are decent and good buys for short trips, they probably wouldn't last an entire thu-hike.
lvnv1212
02-03-2012, 15:25
I started with a Gregory Baltero 75 (5 lbs) - sold that, bought a Flash 65 3 lbs 2 oz (still have it) - and went to a Zpacks Exo http://zpacks.com/backpacks.shtml under a pound, so $ saved me 2 lbs. I'm done!
It might be worth it to have a pack that doesnt fall apart on you. Heard of more than one REI falling apart on the trail.
Here's a lesson on how a piece of gear with good nylon fabric is only as good (as a tool) as the quality of the thread and stitching.
Cheap thread is a death sentence for any sewn piece of gear (as is poor stitching). (Learned second-hand - I don't sew any gear -except for hand-sewn loops and minor repairs -, I'm more into mechanical stuff).
Leanthree
02-03-2012, 19:15
As far if it is worth $220 to save a pound, see if there is a cheaper pound to pare first.
Make a list of your gear and look to see if there is a comparable piece of gear that you can cut that weight for less money. When I first made the lightweight leap (still ongoing...), I lost 7 lbs for $350 (pack and bag) or $50 a lb and alchy stove/pot for $60/lb that was the low hanging fruit. Tent cost ~$100/lb and my most recent purchase (montbell ex light down) cost ~$300/lb but has the added advantage of being awesome. Every upgrade gets more and more expensive per oz/pound.
Those changes were without any real performance decline. See if there are any lower hanging fruit than your pack. If there isn't then decide if you have $220 to spend vs all your other priorities. $220 can buy a lot (~440 cans of bud light), 1 lb over 2200 miles may make sense.
BlackJack1
02-04-2012, 05:33
The ULA Circuit claims 35 lbs is the max weight but I have gone over that and was fine. Plus you can take the stay and frame out.
Lightest one I have seen is the Z pack cuban fiber at 9 oz.....now that is light :)
My ZPacks Blast 30 with a few attachments weighs 8.6 oz...and carries like a dream...of course though my last hike was 17 lbs with 4 days worth of food, my water and fuel...so, there's that... :)
Rain Man
02-13-2012, 12:07
That is a lot of money to drop a pound. While I dont know exactly what you're taking, you could probably drop over a pound for free by simply leaving some things at home.
My assumption exactly. At least, that's what I do. I have a Gregory pack, a Kelty, and two REIs (45 and 60). My REIs are my "go to" packs, though I might experiment with the 60, leaving the two stays at home for a trip (but will weigh them first to see if it's worth it).
Gram weenies can get lost in the trees and sometimes don't seem able to see the forest.
Rain:sunMan
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58starter
02-13-2012, 20:49
If we do a little math here we will see that if you are 120 lbs it makes sense to carry a total of 18 lbs.
If you weight 225 then you should be able to carry around 33lbs. Yes, that is 15% of your body weight.
I never want to be cold or hungry because I do not have a tent, or stove, or enough food.
Kurt Simmons
02-13-2012, 21:04
My Gregory Baltoro 65 feels the same on my back empty as it does with 25 lbs in it. If I thought I would ever need a 65L pack again I would keep it.
If you weight 225 then you should be able to carry around 33lbs. Yes, that is 15% of your body weight.
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15 percent? I always went by the no more than 30 percent rule. Is 15 the new UL adapted version?
You should have done what I did.
I started with a 7 pound pack. lol
It's easier to carry an extra 25 pounds when 175 pounds than when 225 pounds.
So you have to judge things as a percentage of your lean body weight.
I use a golight Jam2 now, 20oz for a large, and I'm very happy with it. $100.
I won't replace it now, but the ULA packs look like very good packs also.
skinewmexico
02-14-2012, 12:29
15 percent? I always went by the no more than 30 percent rule. Is 15 the new UL adapted version?
The number I've always heard for Boy Scouts is 20%. I don't know that UL has anything to do with it, but 30% of the average persons body weight is rarely fun. I'd rather burn that testosterone showing off for cheerleaders.
And no, I wouldn't spend $220 to save a pound, unless I had already saved it on the other parts of my Big 4, and my body.
My point I guess with the pecentages is that if you weigh 120 lbs, your probably not gonna be able to eat if you can only bring 18 lbs or it breaks down to 10 lbs food/water so what you got 8 lbs gear?
skinewmexico
02-14-2012, 18:36
My point I guess with the pecentages is that if you weigh 120 lbs, your probably not gonna be able to eat if you can only bring 18 lbs or it breaks down to 10 lbs food/water so what you got 8 lbs gear?
But 36# (30%) is an enormous load for someone who weighs 120#. Using 20% or 24# is pretty doable with today's gear, and you don't even have to get crazy on the UL gear. Well, you would have to buy smart. On the plus side, someone that light should (probably) have a smaller, lighter sleeping bag and pad, and need less food. They'd probably be able to get by with 1# of food per day, which could make for a fairly long, unsupported trip.
Heavier packs generally cost more, not less.
UL, done right, should be both cheaper and lighter.
30% is for people with 10% body fat. 20% is for people with more than 20% body fat.
Still doesn't make sense unless it is as a percentage of lean body weight, and seasonally dependant.
I pack about 10 pounds in summer, 20 in spring/fall, and 30 in winter. Lean body weight is 150 pounds.
I think the 30% number originates with outfitters wanting to sell stuff, and consumers wanting to buy stuff.
This is why people call it backpacking rather than hiking. Hiking is about the hike. Backpacking is about stuff.
Buy less stuff. Carry less stuff.
garlic08
02-14-2012, 19:16
Heavier packs generally cost more, not less.
UL, done right, should be both cheaper and lighter.
Thank you for saying that!!! My UL pack cost $80, my Tarptent Contrail was $200, my pad was $20, my stove was free.
The exception is the sleeping bag. That can be pricey, but then you have an excellent bag.
But 36# (30%) is an enormous load for someone who weighs 120#. Using 20% or 24# is pretty doable with today's gear, and you don't even have to get crazy on the UL gear. Well, you would have to buy smart. On the plus side, someone that light should (probably) have a smaller, lighter sleeping bag and pad, and need less food. They'd probably be able to get by with 1# of food per day, which could make for a fairly long, unsupported trip.
I didnt say bring 30 percent I said no more than 30 percent. I agree 24 lbs seem doable. I was just pointing out that 18lbs with 4 days of food is unrealistic.
Heavier packs generally cost more, not less.
UL, done right, should be both cheaper and lighter.
I agree, now if we could just convince the cuben fiber people.
I agree with that. I would pay more for a better bag.
I got a good price on a 20oz fill 20oz shell 20degF Kelty Bag for $50, but its only 550 fill. Still a good price, and it fits great. For a thru-hike I would probably pay an extra $100 if it was 850 fill, which would be about half a pound lighter. Might not find one on sale for $150 though. When I have more money I might get a better winter bag, but for now I use either my 40oz 20F 550fill, or my 60oz 0F synthetic, or both as 20F bag actually fits inside the other rather well. Heavy but warm. Tested in backyard in -20F. Not ideal, and heavy, but workable.
I agree, now if we could just convince the cuben fiber people.
I think you and I have a different idea of 'done right' than some folks. i.e. diminishing returns
That said, I would go cuben for certain DIY projects, or if I were to try a cottage industry product. I figure if you are going to put the time in, or pay for some quality craftmanship, it doesn't hurt to spring a little for some cool materials.
Besides, I've tried the cigars, and their not bad.
Yeah I think cuben fiber is worth its weight in gold, unfortunately that's still less than it retails for.
swjohnsey
02-14-2012, 20:55
Yeah I think cuben fiber is worth its weight in gold, unfortunately that's still less than it retails for.
But it is cool. I bought one of Zpacks little "wallets" for five bucks just to say I had somethin' out of cuben.
Wise Old Owl
02-14-2012, 21:27
http://sectionhiker.com/granite-gear-blaze-a-c-60-backpack-review/
Found this review - might be helpful
I cut 6.4 lbs out of my AT 2010 pack for a 2012 summer CT hike, it cost me about $10/oz.
Sassafras Lass
02-16-2012, 08:32
I have a fairly new REI Flash 65 that weighs 3lb, 3oz and is a pretty decent pack. I have my cold weather pack weight down to 26-27 (includes supplies for 4 days) pounds depending on what exactly I end up taking. I'm considering the purchase of the new Granite Gear Crown A.C. 60 when it becomes available. I believe it weighs 2lb, 2oz...is it worth $220 to save a pound?
Is it worth it to you?
I tried on about 2 dozen packs and the best fitting thing (though it did not fit great) was the Gregory Jade 50. Used it on our NOBO attempt last spring, then sold it a month ago for about $60 less than what I paid for it. Dropped $225 on a 100% American ULA Circuit (http://www.ula-equipment.com/circuit.asp) in custom Purple, and I saved 1 lb, 14 oz. My pack not only looks terrific, but is expertly made in addition to being nearly 2 lbs lighter, and it fits me perfectly. The last walk I took with it was a pleasant amble with about 20 lbs - later in the day, I remembered I had gone for a walk but not that I had my pack on.
So all told I spent, what, about $285 to change out my pack? Worth every penny to me.
If your REI doesn't fit you like a glove, then I say switch it out. I'm a dedicated ULA convert now and of course suggest you check out their Circuit as well as the Catalyst - their largest offerings in 'traditional' packs. Oh, I went through everything - Deuter, Osprey, Granite Gear, etc., but in the end the most important things to me were fit and supporting American workers. I nailed the jackpot with my Circuit.
I would also suggest you examine your base weight before food/water and see if it's reasonable - if you want suggestions on stuff to trim, go ahead and post your list and we'll help.
Sassafras Lass
02-16-2012, 08:47
Yes. I recently spoke to a REI employee and former thru-hiker who told me while some of their packs are decent and good buys for short trips, they probably wouldn't last an entire thu-hike.
Ha! Nice to know there are REI employees who know what they're talking about.
There's a fellow at the Chicago location who was very condescending to me. Which would have been alright, technically, if he hadn't had his head up his @ss and I was actually wrong.
I was examining the Gregory Jade 50 and was happy to see it had a size-adjustable hipbelt. I was having difficulty adjusting it and he happened by and wanted to know if I had questions. "Sure, I'm having trouble adjusting the hipbelt, can you help me with that?" He takes the pack and looks it over briefly, and then says (not troubling to keep the sarcasm/contempt out of his voice), "Now what makes you think this hipbelt is adjustable?" I was . . . well, sort of shocked (not least of which because with the quickest of looks, you can see there are abbreviated slots for the hipbelt to be adjusted), and simply said, "Well . . . it says so on the tag, you see." He finds the tag . . . reads it . . . . and says in slightly kinder tones, "Oh! Okay, let's see then . . . " continues to monkey around with the pack and proceeds to "sell me" as if the previous exchange never happened.
I of course left his company as soon as possible and bought online - with a different retailer.
And this wasn't a bike shop employee or a clothing employee - this dude minutes early had been talking and recommending packs and other hiking gear to another lady, and on subsequent visits is clearly the packpack lurker . . . err, employee.
What a choad. Can I say choad here?
Drybones
02-16-2012, 09:14
You would have done the store manager a favor if you had told him the situation...this guy is losing business for a good company. I would have given you the pack free for letting me know.
Sassafras Lass
02-16-2012, 16:08
You would have done the store manager a favor if you had told him the situation...this guy is losing business for a good company. I would have given you the pack free for letting me know.
I'm a regular George McFly. ;) "I'm afraid I'm just not very good with . . . . confrontations."
Really though, I had no plans on buying from REI, so it felt disingenuous to complain for purposes of getting a discount. And I didn't report the guy because . . . . well, I'm just kind of a pussy like that. If someone's a jerk to me right off the bat, it just throws me off and makes me uncomfortable. I guess you'd say my Flight kicks in, instead of my Fight.
Wow there are some light packs out there. May be time to replace my 20 year old Mountain Smith. I think it weighs 5+ lbs.
--louis