Sleeping bags

[nativedancer]

I bought a 20 degree bag for my trip and I've been trying it outbut can't keep warm at 35 so i put on more clothing and still can't keep warm. what am I doing wrong?

[dshideler]

What brand and model is the bag?

[Sensei]

The temperature ratings can be confusing. For one, everyone sleeps a little differently - I find I get cold easier than most people. Second, when a bag is rated for 20 degrees that usually means that you will survive at 20 but might not be comfortable unless the temp is closer to 30.

[Papa D]

Several things might be in play here:

1) With the exception of a few really high-end companies (and this is unfortunate) a lot of companies totally sand-bag the rating. Unless you have a Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, Sherpa Adventure Gear, Mont-Bell, or (some would say) Marmot bag, I'd add about 10 degrees to the rating and remember that this is not really a "comfort rating" - it's more of a "you could do this" rating. For a typical 30 degree night, I'd recommend a bag with a rating in the 5 degree to 15 degree range.

2) Not sure how much camping experience you have but it is really important to strike a balance of good hydration and an empty bladder. If you are generally well-hydrated your cells are not functioning at their optimum and sleep can be poor - your muscles also need hydration to recover from your day's hike BUT you can have trouble staying warm if your body has to keep a bladder full of pee warm. Try to drink a lot of water an hour or two before you go to sleep and then pee 30 minutes before bed then again right before you get in your bag.

3) Adding to the second item, make sure on cold days your body has plenty of carbohydrates - potatoes, pasta, etc. should do the trick

4) Get a thicker pad - this simple addition can make you a LOT warmer

5) Add a vapor barrier / liner to your bag - this can add 5 degrees warmth

6) On really cold nights, I sleep in long underwear and on super cold nights (below 10F) , I add a down jacket - piling on clothes seems to de-loft the whole affair and ruin the warmth thing
(some others will disagree and weigh in on this) - I also almost always wear my stocking cap when it's cold

7) It takes more fuel and a real nalgene or steel bottle, but filling your bottle with hot water and sleeping with it can add a TON of warmth to your bag and your water won't freeze - good trick on an occasional cold snap night, but if you have to do this constantly, you need a warmer bag.

Best of luck in your experiments ...

[dshideler]

The reason I ask is because most high end bags are held to an actual rating standard. Cheap bags like Coleman and such just make up a number. I have a marmot aspen 20 degree down bag and slept in it Thursday night. It got down to about 25 degrees and the only place I really felt even cool was in the small of my back where my shirt was riding up. I was wearing. A fleece beanie, a lightweight poly long sleeve shirt, lightweight fleece thermal bottoms and medium weight wool socks. It may also have to do with what you are sleeping on.

[nativedancer]

I bought a North Face 20 degree Cats Meow bag at REI. I wear 2 sets of wool socks, I hate when my feet get cold, thermal long johns, thermal fleece lined jacket and a pullover hat. I have a linen liner and now i've got an emergency aluminum blanket too. I'm going out tommorow on an overnight with Big Dog, he did the hike last year and is mentoring me.

[Freedom Walker]

I see that you are 64 and i have noticed that as I age I am finding it harder to stay warm while camping on cold nights. Also because of a medical issue I have I need to strike that hydration balience mentioned In the earlier post in that some nights even at home I wrap up in bed with all the covers when years ago I could'nt stand going to bed with covers over me. Ditto on the comments about bag ratings also. I read somewhere that with some bag ratings that the rating is the temperature that if it gets down that low your fellow campers will find you frozen.

[Papa D]

I really hate to dis your bag (but I'm gonna do it) and I really hope you have fun, but The North Face used to be a good company - I used to work with the A5 guys when NF owned A5 - as climbing subsidiary Sadly, NF was bought by Vanity Fair - their focus is having gear made in China as cheap as it can be made - - their biggest customer base is the nouveau preppy sort that wants to have fleece that makes him / her look like an outdoors-person. Their sleeping bags naturally work but I wouldn't trust the rating one little bit - it's a shame because I have a Cat's Meow from the early 90s (I think it's in the basement somewhere) - it was a great bag - the quality has gone way downhill. Go enjoy it for a few weekend trips - don't let me get you down - sorry - after a while, invest in a Western Mountaineering Versalite Bag - Made in California by actual Hippies - you'll see and feel the difference.

[swjohnsey]

I bought a North Face 20 degree Cats Meow bag at REI. I wear 2 sets of wool socks, I hate when my feet get cold, thermal long johns, thermal fleece lined jacket and a pullover hat. I have a linen liner and now i've got an emergency aluminum blanket too. I'm going out tommorow on an overnight with Big Dog, he did the hike last year and is mentoring me.

I'm assuming the bag is a mummy bag. Are you using the hood properly? Your entire head should be covered save for your mouth/nose. If you want to stay warmer start by adding hat/balacava, next gloves. Down booties for sleeping work better than socks.Socks that are too tight and restrict blood flow making your feet colder. Are you using an insulated sleeping pad? A good pad (or two) will improve performance.

[JohnG10]

I bought a North Face 20 degree Cats Meow bag at REI. I wear 2 sets of wool socks, I hate when my feet get cold, thermal long johns, thermal fleece lined jacket and a pullover hat. I have a linen liner and now i've got an emergency aluminum blanket too. I'm going out tommorow on an overnight with Big Dog, he did the hike last year and is mentoring me.

Are you camped in a valley, or low spot ?
Are your thermal long johns cotton ?
Does your sleeping pad have a thick layer of air ?
Does you tent have a lot of mesh at the bottom ?
Have you eaten some calories right before bed ?

If so, try setting up camp higher (cold air pools in the valleys) and under tree cover (the leaves hold in a little heat), using the emergency blanket to block the wind blowing through the mesh, adding a ridge rest between you and the air, wearing a pair of "expedition weight" fleece long johns and shirt, and eating a snickers bar right before bed (nuts/fats take longer to metabolise than sugar, and will help keep you warm at 2-3am).

[Blissful]

You are older, circulation is worse as we age, and we can't toerate cold and warm as well. I'd return it and go with 15 degree then. My son was only 16 when he used this bag (worked well for him).

[stranger]

I think a 64 year old person out in 30 degrees in a 20 deg bag 'should' be cold based on my experiences in the outdoor industry, as others have said there isn't a 'standard' in North America for sleeping bag ratings (there are in Europe and Australasia) and the company in question has been in a slow and gradual decline in terms of cutting edge products for some time now.

Marmot makes great budget minded bags for around $250, the Sawtooth?

But before you do that you might want to purchase something like a Black Rock Hat, if that doesn't work adding more clothing won't help in my view.

[Spools]

I picked a MH phantom 32 about 6 months ago. great little bag for around 40-45 degrees. I was hoping to take just that on m section hike for march but have since bought a snugpak jungle bag rated at 45*, So i can nest the two bags or use them seperately on warmer nights. I haven't tested the new setup yet but i'm hoping for comfy at 30*, maybe a similar option would be good for you?

[daddytwosticks]

I'm a cold sleeper. Best investments I made were in my two high quality WM sleeping bags. No substitute for a good night's sleep. :)

[bigcranky]

I bought a 20 degree bag for my trip and I've been trying it outbut can't keep warm at 35 so i put on more clothing and still can't keep warm. what am I doing wrong?

Wearing two pairs of socks can reduce circulation, making your feet colder. Here are some ideas:

1. Check your sleeping pad. Many (maybe most) popular pads are not warm enough for cold weather. Putting a thin closed cell foam pad over your current pad will provide a lot more insulation underneath you, where it does a lot of good. What pad are you using now?

2. Try putting a small piece of closed cell foam pad inside your sleeping bag under your feet. This helps a lot. That same square can be used as a sit pad when you take breaks or are hanging out in camp. Very useful.

3. In cold weather I find that down booties make a huge difference in warmth at night. Check the Goosefeet web site (https://goosefeetgear.com/).

The other suggestions you received on food, etc., are very good as well.

[Bags4266]

Please post the pad your using....thats were i'm leaning to the problem.

[Papa D]

Please post the pad your using....thats were i'm leaning to the problem.

yep, I'm not a big fan of the Neo-Air because they are a bit noisy and not self inflating but YOU might be the perfect candidate for one.

[dshideler]

Concerning my earlier post, I was sleeping on a neo air with a ridge rest under it. It was around 25 degrees.

[nativedancer]

I usually only get 5 hrs of sleep a night. This past sunday I went out on the trail at Port Clinton Pa over to Hawk Mountain. The temps were low 20's. I rolled around all night trying to keep warm. Maybe I was over dressed. Summer drawers, thermal long johns, thermal fleece lined jacket ant my rain jacket in side the bag with and aluminum emergency blanket to boot. I may have been sweating some. Also I had a 4" square heating pad on my chest between clothing layers. That worked well till it quit.Big Dog my mentor says he only got a couple of real cold nights last year so I think I'll just wrestle through them. I can't see buying a second bag, i plan on using this one for my whole trip. I'm going from Springer to Pa and then flipping in June to come back to Pa.

[jacquelineanngrant]

I am a cold sleeper myself and I would recommend returning the bag to REI and getting a zero. It is a whole lot easier to cool down a warm bag (unzip, skip the liner) than it is to make a colder bag toastier. Being warm means sleeping well and that makes all the difference on the trail.

[Kookork]

Several things might be in play here:

1) With the exception of a few really high-end companies (and this is unfortunate) a lot of companies totally sand-bag the rating. Unless you have a Western Mountaineering, Feathered Friends, Sherpa Adventure Gear, Mont-Bell, or (some would say) Marmot bag, I'd add about 10 degrees to the rating and remember that this is not really a "comfort rating" - it's more of a "you could do this" rating. For a typical 30 degree night, I'd recommend a bag with a rating in the 5 degree to 15 degree range.

2) Not sure how much camping experience you have but it is really important to strike a balance of good hydration and an empty bladder. If you are generally well-hydrated your cells are not functioning at their optimum and sleep can be poor - your muscles also need hydration to recover from your day's hike BUT you can have trouble staying warm if your body has to keep a bladder full of pee warm. Try to drink a lot of water an hour or two before you go to sleep and then pee 30 minutes before bed then again right before you get in your bag.

3) Adding to the second item, make sure on cold days your body has plenty of carbohydrates - potatoes, pasta, etc. should do the trick

4) Get a thicker pad - this simple addition can make you a LOT warmer

5) Add a vapor barrier / liner to your bag - this can add 5 degrees warmth

6) On really cold nights, I sleep in long underwear and on super cold nights (below 10F) , I add a down jacket - piling on clothes seems to de-loft the whole affair and ruin the warmth thing
(some others will disagree and weigh in on this) - I also almost always wear my stocking cap when it's cold

7) It takes more fuel and a real nalgene or steel bottle, but filling your bottle with hot water and sleeping with it can add a TON of warmth to your bag and your water won't freeze - good trick on an occasional cold snap night, but if you have to do this constantly, you need a warmer bag.

Best of luck in your experiments ...

What a great post Papa D. Just one small correction . I suppose that the Bold word of your post was are not and it is a typing mistake. Couple of month ago there was a thread about the empty or full bladder here in WB and I mentioned there that a full bladder makes us feel cold because stretching of a full bladder wall activate Parasympathetic Nervous system and urge to pee. Parasympathetic system activation slows down the heart rate and blood flow to the extremities and so the body can not compensate properly for warming the body.

Overall great piece of advice in your post. just this post alone put you in top ten posters of WB in my dictionary right beside other great posters like Tinker, john gault, Wise Old Owl, Tipi walter ,Rain man ,Feral bill ,Lone Wolf and some more.

[Tinker]

http://www.rei.com/product/807886/the-north-face-cats-meow-sleeping-bag

It looks as if the Cat's Meow pictured does not have a trapezoidal (or box) foot section. This could cause your toes (when sleeping on your back) to compress the insulation between the lining and the outer fabric. Compressed insulation causes cold spots.

Another thing is that the bag's insulation is synthetic, which is stiffer than down and doesn't drape nearly as well, allowing empty air spaces around your body which are channels of cold(er) air than what is in the insulation. This is a seldom-mentioned disadvantage when comparing down to synthetics.

If you use a vapor barrier liner, be aware that any clothing you wear inside the barrier will become damp (same as with your space blanket). Wear only poly or wool underwear inside a vapor barrier (which includes your space blanket). ;)

[MuddyWaters]

That 20 degree rating is based on a man. Women tend to be about 10-15 F higher often. So just being a woman, you may be looking at 35F. Being 64, etc, and easily you may want a 10 degree bag. Assuming your pad is good R value too.

[kayaker4ever]

I do a fair amount of winter camping in the mountains of North Carolina but those are shorter duration trips and I can carry more weight so I use a -25 degree bag. For longer hikes I use a North Face Blue Kazoo 15F degree bag. Right inside the zipper NF has a tag that says the "comfort" temp is 25F, the "limit" is 13F and the "extreme" is -20F. At least they're honest. I agree with all the other good advice about diet, pad, hat, booties. Something else, if your bag is a little longer than you are tall there will be an empty space at the feet. This space will be cold so fill it up with extra clothing. I also lay a space blanket down under my pad and fold it over me if I start to feel chilly. Like others have said, it takes more to keep us warm as we get older. If you have a small extra water bottle you can pee in it and put it in the foot area of your sleeping bag. It's already warmed water without wasting fuel.

[Colter]

... Summer drawers, thermal long johns, thermal fleece lined jacket ant my rain jacket in side the bag with and aluminum emergency blanket to boot. I may have been sweating some...

It's important to stay dry and avoid sweating. The first thing I would do is get that aluminum emergency blanket out of the bag. It makes me feel clammy and chilled just thinking about it. Although I am a fan of proper layering of clothing inside my sleeping bag, I try to avoid wearing my rain gear, except as a last resort, because it tends to make me feel clammy.

Others have given you good advice. Make sure you have a warm sleeping pad and warm hat. Your fleece jacket should help as long as you don't sweat.