SVEA Optimus 123

[flyefysch]

I've been looking at getting a SVEA Optimus stove. It's heavier than the alcohol stove I made, but - from what I've heard - will burn hotter in colder temps (i.e. winter hiking). I've noticed that the instructions say that it burns white gas, but further reading talks about "petrol". Can I use unleaded gas in this thing or am I asking for trouble. And, this may sound like a dumb question, but can someone enlighten me as to the difference between white gas and unleaded? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

[neo]

stick with the white gas or you and your stove will be sorry:cool: neo

[rickb]

Have fun with the Svea ;-). I'd sell you mine, but its has sentimental value.

Presurizing it is the best part. Basically, you douse the stove with fuel and strike a match. Depending on where you do this, spectators may be alternately entertained or horrified.

If you are ever lost, lite stove. Your rescuers will hear you from 2.3 miles away.

I think the big differencebetween white gas and unleaded are the additives and impurities which have the potential of clogging the jets. Since white gas is actually easier to get along the AT, I never bothered experimenting with unleaded.

Its a great stove. As an added benefit, hot coffee tastes delicious out of the metal cup/cover. The hotter the better. ;)

Rick B

[neo]

svea 123 is a definate classic,i remember cooking thanksgiving dinner out of mine in nov 1985 at frozen head state park:cool: neo

[kncats]

"Petrol" has a pretty wide definition in Europe, all though it is the term generally used for automotive gasoline. Optimus' web site specifically recommends against using car gasolinne in their stoves.

[oldfivetango]

Oh yeah- gotta love that little stove.It is Definitely a Pyromaniacs Dream!
And that macho sound it puts out-what a comfort in the middle of nowhere!
That said-some people are a little "put off" by the starting procedure on the
mighty 123R,however this is really not rocket science.The most common mistake is dousing the little "priming port" on top of the stove with WAY too
much fuel which invariably runs onto the ground (or picnic table) and you have an instant pyrotechnic show whether you wanted one or not.I read about someone who accidentally ignited a table and i will bet they were using this stove when they did it.THE 123R IS DEFINITELY AN "OUTSIDE THE TENT" TOY!
However,you can quickly eliminate all the thrills of the lighting procedure
by going on down to the drugstore and purchasing an eyedropper or just use a 3 inch piece of soda straw(for all you gram weenies) to put just a few drops on top of the little port so that none runs off the stove.Apply the flame and the fuel will burn enough to make the little brass body warm enough to pressurize.CAREFULLY open the needle valve AND BE READY TO CLOSE IT OFF in the event you get more flame than you want.By turning the needle valve on and off to the point that the stove gets hot enough to
run you will get a GORGEOUS blue flame with a roar that probably emulates the sound of a pulse jet engine more than anything else on the mountain.If
i remember correctly it puts off something like 5400 btu's and that's "cooking with gas" any way you cut it.
NOW,if you want to spend a few $$ and not do the priming thing you just
get the little pump kit they make for the stove.Just don't get all hyper when you pump that BADBOY up the first time-remember this is a SVEA and not a
Coleman-about 4 or 5 little licks will get you what you want-not the 40-50
you are used to doing on a Coleman stove.If you overpump a SVEA and light it off you may wind up like a certain guy I know down in Georgia who thought he was going to kill innocent women and children when I ,uhh,
he, way overpumped the little brass bomber and thought that it was going
to blow itself into a brass handgrenade because of the mighty 3 foot flame
and burning fuel running all down the sides of the stove body onto the forest floor-OH YEAH.But the mighty SVEA kept its cool and eventually burned out the fuel without incident.Further investigation of the owners manual indicates that it does have some sort of "pop-off"feature but i (uh i mean my friend) cannot necessarily locate it on his unit.
I use only Coleman fuel in mine.It holds,i think, 4 ounces and will run about
80 minutes on a tankful.Thats alot of cooking and if i had a hiking buddy to
carry some of the "common items" i would be packing it but the weight of
a Brasslite,cat,or soda can,is just so much ligther.But there is nothing else
on the market like the Mighty SVEA 12R IMHO.
Cheers,
Oldfivetango:)

[orangebug]

My x-wife and kids made me throw mine away, as the lighting ceremony is so spectacular. You can use Coleman fuel/white gas/unleaded gas. You have to warm up the carburator, much like a Whisperjet, except it is on top of the fuel tank. So, you splash a drop or much more on the fuel tank, pressurize it, light it, jump back from the exploding fireball, watch it warm up and take off while you pick off the singed hair from your eye brows.

Never leave a pot unwatched over it, as it will melt.

I think it would work and be much safer to put a splot of Purel alcohol gel in the fuel/heating well rather than gas.

There is the trade off of high heat and relatively heavy weight.

[NICKTHEGREEK]

Geez, I really like these sveas, they are so "retro" . I admire lots of old antique roadshow gear when I see it, but would never buy any of them to actually use. To me it's like carrying one of those old carbide cannons instead of a whistle to call for help. My three sherpas drew the line on humping the cannon (Just kidding).
Aside from the fairly low output the weight, the cube and hazard factors should put this thing out of the running pretty fast.

There's lots of multifuel blow torches out there- some burn white gas, unleaded regular, kero and even rape seed fuels, but need rejetted and lots of TLC so if liquid fuel is what you've set your heart on, keep looking.

[max patch]

I used a SVEA 123 on my thru. I used white gas about half the time and unleaded regular gasoline (cost about 8 cents to fill up my fuel bottle) about half the time. Worked fine either way.

When I got home I was looking at the instructions and they said not to use gasoline. Don't know why.

[Palmer]

Now I'm getting sentimntal for my old SVEA. If you can find "fire paste" in a tube, just squeeze a little bit of that stuff onto the top of the stove to prime it. The fire paste won't run off and ignite tables, leaves, etc. I used my SVEA for years, if not decades, and never considered getting anything else. Great stove.

[orangebug]

When I got home I was looking at the instructions and they said not to use gasoline. Don't know why.I always assumed that they wanted to avoid lead exposure from the old tetra-ethyl leaded variety. That stuff used to really do a number on those who got cheap thrills by "huffing" it, killing their hippocampus and ability to ever learn any new information or memory.

[Peaks]

I've been looking at getting a SVEA Optimus stove. It's heavier than the alcohol stove I made, but - from what I've heard - will burn hotter in colder temps (i.e. winter hiking). I've noticed that the instructions say that it burns white gas, but further reading talks about "petrol". Can I use unleaded gas in this thing or am I asking for trouble. And, this may sound like a dumb question, but can someone enlighten me as to the difference between white gas and unleaded? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.

Many questions:

First, difference between white gas and unleaded? Additives in the unleaded gas. These additives may clog up the orfice.

Do you need to use only white gas (coleman fuel)? Probably not. Unleaded will work when you can't get small quantities of coleman fuel. Just know how to clean the orfice. More of an inconvience than a big problem.

Petrol: Gas in Europe.

Now, Svea has been around for at least a couple of decades. It was the original backpacking stove. And, as you can see by the prior posts, lots of good stories about using them. And every one has their own method for pressurizing them. For winter use, I'd suggest considering the MSR Whisperlite, or Simmerlite if I wanted a white gas stove rather than the Svea.

[bstwo]

I use the 123 for winter camping, found a heavy duty measuring cup that the stove just fits into and was able to find a top that fit.

http://webpages.charter.net/fam-strick/GasStoves.jpg

[minnesotasmith]

In Roland Mueser's book compiling results of interviews with over 100 successful AT thru-hikers, this stove had the highest reliability of any stove enough thru-hikers in the survey carried to give meaningful results. I have been figuring on getting one for deep winter hiking in the future.

[hikerjohnd]

In Roland Mueser's book compiling results of interviews with over 100 successful AT thru-hikers, this stove had the highest reliability of any stove enough thru-hikers in the survey carried to give meaningful results. I have been figuring on getting one for deep winter hiking in the future.
Perhaps I could interest you in a Pacer as well? Is a survey of 136 people, taken 15 years ago, really a valid sample when comapred to hikers today? The technology advancements alone would tell you that the info is out of date. Furthermore, the discussion of stoves tells you that only 19 people, 15% of the respondents, carried a Optimus/Seva Suunto stove (and Mueser is quick to point out that the Seva 123 accounted for "most" of the 19 - not all). Of course it will have a higher satisfaction rate, with so few of them out there, the numbers can't escalate! Given the thousands of people who hike/camp every year, the advances in technology, and the lack of continued popularity of the 123, I would hesitate to take Mueser's word on the viability of the 123 as a reliable, long term investment for backcountry cooking.

[Peaks]

In Roland Mueser's book compiling results of interviews with over 100 successful AT thru-hikers, this stove had the highest reliability of any stove enough thru-hikers in the survey carried to give meaningful results. I have been figuring on getting one for deep winter hiking in the future.

Musser survey 1989 thru-hikers. I don't know how everything has changed, but there are certainly some different ideas today on gear selection.

58% used external frame packs then. What do you suppose it is now?

5% used alcohol stoves then. About 90% used white gas stoves. Are the percentages reversed now?

Roland did a good survey, but it's dated. Unfortunately, it's the only survey that we have. Time to get it updated.

[The Old Fhart]

The problem that so many associate with the 123 can be eliminated by the inexpensive pump kit that replaced the regular filler cap with a special one that you could slide a small (about 1" x 3") pump onto. About 25 or so pumps and the stove was pressurized and ready to go without the ball of flame that made it look like a minature A-bomb had gone off. I have used a 123 extensively with the pump and really like that little stove. I found a 3-cup stainless steel cup that it fits into that I can use to heat smaller meals or for hot liquids. The 123 model I now have is one of the newer models with the self-cleaning jet which is much better than the cleaning tool with the thin wire you used to use.

[minnesotasmith]

"Perhaps I could interest you in a Pacer as well?"

I'm perfectly willing to listen to new ideas on hiking. By all means, please tell us about what you've read, heard, and experienced with this stove, one with which I am unfamiliar.

[hikerjohnd]

I'm perfectly willing to listen to new ideas on hiking. By all means, please tell us about what you've read, heard, and experienced with this stove, one with which I am unfamiliar. OK - here we go:


In Roland Mueser's book compiling results of interviews with over 100 successful AT thru-hikers, this stove had the highest reliability of any stove enough thru-hikers in the survey carried to give meaningful results.

Your sole praise for this stove was based on Mueser's book. If you're going to sell praise for an item, that you are "unfamiliar" with, perhaps that praise should come from a more timely source or a more broad resource. Here's why:

Mueser has done a good job, but times change. Additionally, anyone dealing with statistical analysis can not give weight to the results Mueser published - the sample size is just too small to be representative of the community at large. In my experience, to have a valid sample (as I am struggling with working on surveys for my thesis) you need a representative number. Mueser sent out 190 surveys, of which he received 136 back. Given his rate of return, 71%, one can be suspect of the numbers immediately. That is a HUGE return when it comes to survey participation. But it is still not representative of the hiking community at large. How many thousand long distance hikers lived in the United States in 1990? What % of that number is 190? If you read pg 157-158 carefully, he outlines why his sample size is not representative of the hiking community at large. Almost a full page of text is offered to justify his skewing of the numbers to meet his needs, and I am not offering that as something wrong, everyone working with stats skews the numbers to meet their needs. He should, however, use 136 as his base for the interpertation of information.

Setting aside the suspect return data, of the 136 returns, and focusing on stoves (for our discussion), only 14% of the users used the Optimus/Svea Suunto stove catagory. Now, Mueser states that "most" of these were the 123 model (pg 58). So at a minimum, 7% (10) of hikers surveyed used the 123, at a maximum 13% (18) used it. As you analyze the data, the number of users begins to get smaller. But giving Mueser the benefit of the doubtwe will set the user number at 18 - it is the largest number that can be allowed under the guise of "most" of 19.


...this stove had the highest reliability of any stove enough thru-hikers in the survey carried to give meaningful results.
With a smaple size of 18, there is not a large enough sample size to give a realistic view of the failure rate. How many 123's were in the United States in 1990? For the sake of argument (and easy math) we'll say there was only 100 Svea 123 stoves in the US at that time. Mueser's survey uncovered 18% of those. How did the other 92 perform? Again we run into the sample size being too small. Ony 1 person out of 18 reported a problem with the stove - and he did not discuss what that problem was. He did go into detail about the stove with the highest failure rate, the MSR Whisperlite. of the 59 people who carried the MSR, 9 experienced problems - and Mueser says the problem was clogging (a point I'll discuss in a moment). But again, I admit, the sample size is too small to draw conclusions.

Also, your comment insinuates that the 136 particiapnts in the survey are thru-hikers. Mueser points out that the participants are long distance hikers, not necessarily thru-hikers. The variety in the sample source gives further credence that the sample size is too small. And again it is not representative of a hiking community. (Of the people who did not thru-hike, what portion of them carried the 123? Would they have continued to carry it had they gone thru?)

Yes, Mueser's survey revealed the 123 to be the most efficient - in a microcosm. I would argue that a larger sample size would reveal the 123 to be comprable to other stoves in owner satisfaction, thus the nature of statistics.


By all means, please tell us about what you've read, heard, and experienced with this stove, one with which I am unfamiliar. Focsing first on the 123 - Technological advancements found their way to the 123 in the form of a pump for pressureization and a shaker jet for keeping the port clean. Based solely on the problem of clogging (the only problem Mueser discusses - and with a different stove), if a company only had a 5% failure rate, the addition of somethnig like a shaker jet would be too costly to implement. A failure rate of 5% would be well within acceptable parameters.

The MSR problem of clogging was addressed as time and technology moved on. With the advent of the shaker jet, the owner satisfaction rate of the Whisperlite rose - look at posts on this site. The stoves have out sold the 123 hands down. The MSR continues to rank among the highest selling stoves.

But trends change - a significant percentage of backapckers are switching to alcohol - again I offer this site as a resource.

So why? Why would the 123 not continue as a frontrunner for backapckers? While advancemets were made by 123, there were not enough to make it marketable to this day (although I do believe it has it's place - high altitudes, etc.). Comparing it to the MSR it is slower and heavier.

123 - 7 mins, 19 oz
MSR - 4 mins, 11 oz

I believe most hikers would balk at the extra 1/2 pound in their pack when there is a reliable, more efficient, less costly choice to put in their packs.

So that is what I have "read, heard, and experienced with this stove." While I'm sure it would be dependable, there are other alternatives (and I have only focused on 1 white gas alternative that Mueser discusses) that would be better suited to backpackers today. There is a reason that most of the responses so far have looked at their Svea's nostalgically - few people still use them. So my comment about selling you a Pacer, while meant in jest, is applicable. A Pacer was a dependable car, compact, but very heavy - analogous to the Svea 123. :sun

[oldfivetango]

My x-wife and kids made me throw mine away, as the lighting ceremony is so spectacular. You can use Coleman fuel/white gas/unleaded gas. You have to warm up the carburator, much like a Whisperjet, except it is on top of the fuel tank. So, you splash a drop or much more on the fuel tank, pressurize it, light it, jump back from the exploding fireball, watch it warm up and take off while you pick off the singed hair from your eye brows.

Never leave a pot unwatched over it, as it will melt.

I think it would work and be much safer to put a splot of Purel alcohol gel in the fuel/heating well rather than gas.

There is the trade off of high heat and relatively heavy weight. IMHO any woman who separates a man from his SVEA Optimus 123R deserves to be divorced.What GOD has put together-let no man(nor woman) put asunder!
Cheers,
Oldfivetango:D:D:D:D:D

[generoll]

As you have already seen, there're few topics that will stir more debate then the Svea 123. So here's my opinion. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

I left my Svea behind on my last section hike in favor of a lighter and quicker to light pepsi can/alcohol stove. After 4 days I regretted my decision. Some of my meals required a bit of simmering and I am also fond of a hot drink to accompany my breakfast and supper. The alcohol stove was capable of boiling 2+ cups of water on one filling before it ran dry and then had to be refilled if I still wanted more hot water. The Svea will of course boil all the water that one hiker is likely to need. My impression was that you got more BTU from gas then from alcohol so one either has to carry more alcohol or refuel at more frequent intervals.

So...... if you can limit your needs to about 2 cups of boiling water at a meal, then the weight factor tips it in favor of the pepsi can stove. Given my more sybaritic approach to backpacking however, I think that I will go back to my trusted and beloved Svea.

confused yet?

:-?

[Panzer1]

And, this may sound like a dumb question, but can someone enlighten me as to the difference between white gas and unleaded? Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
I found this in "Backpacking equiptment buyer's guide" 1978
White Gas is a special, additive-free version of automobile gasoline.
Coleman fuel is cleaner than raw white gas; it contains rust inhibitors and has additives which make for easier lighting and faster burning. It also is less volatile than gasoline. Most manufactures recommend it to reduce fouling of stove innards and to increase performance.

Panzer

[oldfivetango]

As you have already seen, there're few topics that will stir more debate then the Svea 123. So here's my opinion. Take it for whatever you think it's worth.

I left my Svea behind on my last section hike in favor of a lighter and quicker to light pepsi can/alcohol stove. After 4 days I regretted my decision. Some of my meals required a bit of simmering and I am also fond of a hot drink to accompany my breakfast and supper. The alcohol stove was capable of boiling 2+ cups of water on one filling before it ran dry and then had to be refilled if I still wanted more hot water. The Svea will of course boil all the water that one hiker is likely to need. My impression was that you got more BTU from gas then from alcohol so one either has to carry more alcohol or refuel at more frequent intervals.

So...... if you can limit your needs to about 2 cups of boiling water at a meal, then the weight factor tips it in favor of the pepsi can stove. Given my more sybaritic approach to backpacking however, I think that I will go back to my trusted and beloved Svea.

confused yet?

:-? My Brasslite Turbo 2D is a great alcohol burning SIMMERIMG stove.
I have it,a pepsi model,and a homemade Frito Bean Dip stove ,in my pack
for a total of about 4 oz for cooking equipment,not including fuel.
But if I were going to go hiking with one or more partners-SVEA (24 oz full of fuel?) would be in the pack.
For those of you who have never owned one how could you understand the fondness this little stove generates amongst its owners?Sorta like that song-"I Don'tKnow Why I Love You,But I Do!" Maybe its the shine on the brass,or that AWESOME SOUND that permeates the forest realm,or maybe the EXTREME heat that it will produce for such a little thing,I dunno.
Somehow it just captures the imagination-I sometimes use it at home(outdoors) just to enjoy its form and function.Could be that for an inanimate object it sort of has a soul and personality all its own.
Cheers,
Oldfivetango:)

[orangebug]

I liked the heat and reliability of my 123, but I'd never recommend one to anyone in post 9/11 USA. We have another thread discussing the difficulties of carrying fuel bottles to trailhead while flying.

With Whisperjet, Canister stoves, alcohol stoves and such, the fuel container is seperate from the stove. One could purchase a new fuel container near the trailhead and never fear arrest for introducing an explosive onto an airliner.

The fuel tank on the SVEA is part of the stove - it don't come off. It reeks of hydrocarbons. The necessary fuel bottle adds more weight and difficulty with security.

On the other hand, I suspect a SVEA 123 and the TSA are a perfect match for Minnesotasmith! Go out and get one today! :dance

[Valmet]

I bought me Svea 123 in 1974. Have used it hundreds of times. One of the things I like about it in the winter is the way you can heat up your hands when it is cooking. It is one of the best made stoves ever. If you are looking for one you can find them on e-bay usually for less than 50 bucks. Another item for their success is the SIGG Tourist cooking sets. If you have a large group these can't be beat for preparing meals. The 123 sits in the bottom ring and you have multiple pots so you can really be a backcountry gourmet. I still use it when I go alone in the winter. In the summer I use a Brallite micro. All I want to do then is heat up water.

I do have a fondness for old stoves. I have a Optimus 8R, Optimus 99, Primus 80, 71, & 71L, Enders Benzin-Baby, some Petromax types. All of them work great but still my favorite is the Svea 123. If anyone if interested in old camp stoves this web site has loads of info, but be careful you may get hooked. http://www.spiritburner.com/

[hikerjohnd]

http://www.spiritburner.com/
Valmet - very cool link! I love to see all those antiques in action! :banana

[oldfivetango]

Recent posts about the SVEA Optimus 123R got my appetite whetted for
using the little stove once again.So yesterday evening i go OUTSIDE with
the wife's 2 liter copper clad Revere Ware pot filled to about 2 inches from
the top with water(this will be important later),and 4 grade A large eggs.
After applying 5 strokes with the little pump kit i carefully lit the bad boy off
and placed the pot with the eggs on top of the stove.Air temp was about 62 degrees F and there was no wind.In approximately 1 min 45 seconds little bubbles began to appear on the bottom of the pot.At approximately 6 minutes the pot was at such a ROLLING BOIL that there were hot drops of water jumping OVER THE SIDES of the pot.Shortly after that one of the eggs cracked open from the heat before i turned it down to a more progressive simmer.Weighed the stove with fuel in it less the little cup/top and on my crude scale it came in at about 20oz.
You dont really need the 2 oz pump if you have an eyedropper or fuel paste
to prime it with.I did try Purell handsanitizer to see if it would work as a primer but could not succeed in igniting Purell.A few drops with the eye dropper is all that is really needed.Oh,almost forgot,the wife comes out to
see what the nut is up to now and was real impressed by the AWESOME ROAR of the little 123 R.
Cheers,
Oldfivetango:)

[rickb]

I can hardly type. I haven't teared up like this since the last time I saw Ol Yeller. That was beautifull, OFT.

[J.D.]

I can hardly type. I haven't teared up like this since the last time I saw Ol Yeller. That was beautifull, OFT.
I'm definitely with you on that...<g>....

My ol' SVEA sits here on my desk as a trophy!

Nicely dried, polished lovingly, and splendid with all the dents and scratches.

It is a constant reminder of where I have been and where I want to go!

[Jonas4321]

I think it's interesting that the opinions of folks that have OWNED and USED the Svea 123 for more than 5 years are nearly universally positive (downright sentimental) about the little guy. I have owned mine for over 30 years, and I have owned and tried many (countless) types since then, searching for Stove Nirvana. I have never come closer than with my 123.

If I was a solo hiker with weight in mind, I'd use an alcohol stove.

If I was a Boy Scout (I'm a former scoutmaster), cooking for my Patrol of 6 to 8, I'd choose a propane stove (and get someone else to carry it).

If I was tailgating at a Buffalo Bills game in January, I'd take my two-burner Coleman white gas stove.

Funny thing is, I can do all of these WELL using the Svea 123, and HAVE done them with it. And that is why it is the last piece of my gear I'd part with, period.

[Weldman]

I've had my Svea for 23 yrs still works like a champ, also have the orginal aluminum cup, but use a military canteen cup w/ brass handle( weighs 17oz w/o alum cup). I replace the nipple and needle 6 yrs ago but only problem.

I pickup a Optimus 8R for $5 at a Antique swap meet( 2 yrs ago)- Practically stole it from them- works great fire right up too. Will not part with my Svea, wife likes it too- so simple for her to use and
now the 8R for when we bring friend's out on trips. I have the pump to use for both but I have used Coghlan's fire paste on the Svea for the last 5 yrs- easier to add paste, the 8R has a prime cup away from the fuel tank.


Here is a spare parts listing for anyone
www.brunton.com (http://www.brunton.com) for parts
www.Backcounty.com (http://www.Backcounty.com) - pump

If stove is older than 5 yrs - call A&H Enterprise at 714-258-2525

good luck, hope you find one- Flyesfych

Mike

[sliderule]

So why? Why would the 123 not continue as a frontrunner for backapckers? While advancemets were made by 123, there were not enough to make it marketable to this day (although I do believe it has it's place - high altitudes, etc.). Comparing it to the MSR it is slower and heavier.

:sun
The answer to that question probably has more to do with marketing than the quality and reliability of the two stove types. If Ford sells more cars than Mercedes, does it mean that Ford builds a better car?

I wish I had a nickel for every time that I loaned my Svea 123 (purchased in 1972) to a hiker whose MSR had failed.

When it comes to priming a 123, I carry a small squirt bottle of denatured alcohol. Less flame, smoke and smut.

[ARambler]

...I wish I had a nickel for every time that I loaned my Svea 123 (purchased in 1972) to a hiker whose MSR had failed.

When it comes to priming a 123, I carry a small squirt bottle of denatured alcohol. Less flame, smoke and smut.

Alcohol also works for priming modern white gas stoves.

Don't know about your old '72 model, but by 1974 the Svea had a self-cleaning orifice and I agree there has not been a more reliable stove made. (Yes, I was still using a plastic slide rule... too poor for one of those fancy bamboo K&E's)

After several years, I got tired of the small pot support, and bought the Sigg cook set with two pots and a stable pot support/windscreen. This brought the total weight to 2 lb plus fuel, so I switched to an MSR system pretty quickly (Now a Simmerlight, Ti pot+bottle, and 70 nickles). Interestingly, the pot support for most can stoves is not as good as the old Svea. So, it is true that some of the older equipment still compares well to todays options.

I put my Svea on my digital scale. The scale called the stove a Brass Butt (except it rhymed ;); the stove called the scale a Whiteblazer (someone who puts out lots of information electronically, but almost none of it is useful to those actually on the trail.) Real data:

System Wt (Wt-Diff)
MSR Ti-pot, Ti bottle 19.4 --
Svea, Sigg-lg.pot, bottle 33.3 oz (13.9 oz)

MSR only 8.7 oz --
Svea only 15.4 oz (6.7 oz)

So maybe not much weight difference, but a big percentage. Also, the Svea is the noisiest stove at the shelter.

If anyone still doubts that the Svea is a stove of the past, make me an offer.
Rambler

[generoll]

Selling your Svea? I've got one already but if the price is right I might take another.

[weary]

Along time ago I learned that what is on "sale" today, is likely to be unavailable in the near future. That's the tragedy -- or the brilliance -- of capitalism.

But what do I know. YMMV.

Weary, who just returned from driving nearly 200 miles to plan a Maine Mountain Conference next Oct. 20-21-22.

Just open, www.matlt.org

Well I hope so. Some of my brilliant schemes are slow to get accomplised.

[Skidsteer]

Along time ago I learned that what is on "sale" today, is likely to be unavailable in the near future. That's the tragedy -- or the brilliance -- of capitalism.

Ah yes another "truism"- If you find something really excellent and durable you should immediately purchase two more, since it will soon be impossible to find it in a store.:)

[alalskaman]

I find the "pyrotechnic" stories about priming/lighting the 123 to be amusing, but I used one for 25 years plus without experiencing any such spectacular flareups. IMHO the secret of avoiding flareups is to prime it enough that only vapor is issuing from the nozzle. I kept an empty .45 cartridge case with the stove, and that was generally about right to fill the priming indentation in the stove, without running over. After letting that amount burn off, turning on the valve generally just made a hiss and could be lit and immediately burn hot and normal. If, like in very cold weather, opening the valve produced spurts of liquid fuel, well obviously its going to flare up, so give it a bit more prime. BTW, my stove from the late fifties didn't come with any instructions so I sort of worked this out on my own. Not until many years later, reading Colin Fletcher's books, did I find out the bit about supposedly warming it in your hands, until gas came out of the jet and filled the priming indentation. I tried it of course, and it didn't work for sour apples. So back to the .45 ACP shell. A tube of alcohol-based priming paste would keep your stove less sooty, but who cares. I suspect the 123 is more reliable than any of the MSR whitegas stoves. Cheers, Bill

[jimqpublic]

I haven't used every stove out there- in fact I haven't used anything newer than 10 years nor any alcohol stove. Comparing older butane, MSR X-GK, Peak-1, and my 40 year old second (third maybe) hand SVEA 123- I'll take the SVEA. It is small, tough, and simple. It's also definitely heavier than modern alternatives.

I used it for a few years without a pump, then added the pump. Definitely worth it. It's easier to prime with the pump and works better for cold weather and for simmering. You are limited to about 10 minutes at simmer though before you lose pressure and heat in the generator.

Notes-
Never run it dry. The fuel comes up from the tank in a wick and if you run the stove dry the wick will get charred and won't wick anymore.

Fill the tank with it level. It needs an airspace over the fuel to pressurize properly and if you tip the tank for easier filling you won't leave enough airspace.

Starting drill- Pump a few times- practice to see what works for you depending on temperature, fuel level, and whether you will need to simmer. Put the windscreen on. Pop the valve open and let a bit of fuel dribble down. Close the valve. Light the fuel. If you did it right the prime will preheat the fuel in the generator and the burner will start going with the fuel that was above the valve. In the instant before it goes out open the valve and you're "cookin with gas".

Simmering is tricky. The two things that prevent endless simmering is loss of tank pressure and loss of heat in the generator so you end up with liquid instead of vapor coming out the jet. Warm temperatures, a good windscreen, and short simmer times work well. I found that most dishes that work best with 30 minutes of simmering (at 10k feet in the sierra where cook times are very long) do okay as follows - for two or three people carrying two pots: Bring water/food (rice/pasta,etc) to a boil. Turn down to simmer. Simmer for 5 minutes or until the stove seems unhappy. Take pot off, wrap in jacket (or cozy). Put other pot with soup/drink water on stove and crank it back up. After soup/drink water is hot turn back down to simmer and put food pot back on to warm back up a bit for a few minutes of simmering. This routine has worked well at high altitudes and freezing temperatures.

OTOH I'm thinking that alcohol stoves look pretty good.

[sliderule]

BTW, my stove from the late fifties didn't come with any instructions so I sort of worked this out on my own. Not until many years later, reading Colin Fletcher's books, did I find out the bit about supposedly warming it in your hands, until gas came out of the jet and filled the priming indentation. I tried it of course, and it didn't work for sour apples.

The hand-warming technique was exactly what was recommended in the original instructions. That alone might account for the poor marketing performance of the 123, which is a great stove if its operating quirks are properly understood. Another factor that is often overlooked is the need to relieve the negative pressure in the tank that develops when fuel is depleted. Failing to do that (by momentarily cracking the filler cap open) makes the stove hard to start, since the heat from priming has to overcome a pressure deficit.

[jimqpublic]

... Another factor that is often overlooked is the need to relieve the negative pressure in the tank that develops when fuel is depleted. Failing to do that (by momentarily cracking the filler cap open) makes the stove hard to start, since the heat from priming has to overcome a pressure deficit.

Hmm. Never thought of that. Before I got the pump I would always open the cap and use an eyedropper to get some fuel for priming so it wasn't an issue. I suppose after buying the pump the first several pumps were just bringing the pressure up to zero.

[sliderule]

Lest someone get confused, let me be clear that the pressure equalization technique is only necessary or appropriate when the stove is between uses and is cold.

Do not open the filler cap when the stove is in use or is still hot.

[Klezmorim]

Yeah, I tried Ye Olde Hand-Warming technique on my Svea back when I bought mine at Sears in '72 (for $20!). Let me tell ya, when you're camping in January in Upstate NY ( as I used to do frequently back then) you learn REALLY fast that your li'l ol' mitts aren't gonna prime that stove - and peeling your paws off of a 15-degree (F) piece of fuel-filled brass can be painful!

For summer trips, I primed with alcohol; for winter, only Coleman fuel would do. Just use enough to fill the trough at the base of the generator.

[chuckbuster]

Hey all,
New member here!
Had my Svea since '78 and still working great! Just re-wicked it in '04 and working like new. I will be carrying it on my NOBO starting in April! Definitely the one piece of backpacking equipment I will never replace!
I always open the valve a bit first before using the "hand warming" or "mini-pump" techniques. Once enough fuel runs down the stem and fills the spirit cup, then close valve and light, wait till flame nearly dies out and open valve again. Always a crowd pleaser! Love that roar! With this process you know when enough pressurization has been reached to prime with and you can control how much fuel goes into the spirit cup unlike dousing the whole stove with fuel and lighting. Of course the coolest thing about the Svea is that everyone has their own technique and that gives every Svea its own personality and is one of the many reasons why Svea's have such a loyal following.
Hiking buddy "Catoctin Nomad" (SOBO '93) used unleaded in his when white gas was not available and had no problems.

[sierraDoug]

I recently sold my Svea 123 since I now have an MSR Simmerlite, and plans to make some soda can stoves. It was very reliable, and loud, and hot, and foolproof. And the priming rituals weren't any worse than assembling an MSR and pumping it, etc. I bought mine many years ago on the recommendation of Colin Fletcher ("The Complete Walker").

It's fun to try all the different ways to prime them. Go for it.

[rik_uk3]

fantastic stove, I have several. The 123 and SIGG Tourist cookset is a match made in heaven :)