View Full Version : Hiking Poles - Lightweight and Durable - What Should I Buy?
kolokolo
02-11-2012, 11:48
I have always been against the use of hiking poles, but some recent events (a twisted knee, a couple of spills)have convinced me that I should get a pair. I think that, used correctly, the poles will relieve some strain on my knees, and possibly give me more secure footing on sketchy terrain. (On the other hand, I feel like a bit of a traitor!) I know that the Hiking Poles/No Hiking Poles debate ranks right up there with Hang Food/Sleep with Food, or Tent/Shelter as a topic of controversy, and I was hesitant to switch sides.
Anyway, I am thinking of getting a pair of one-piece carbon fiber poles, like the STIX Pro Carbon Fiber poles, or the (adjustable) GG Lightrek4s (I saw ChillyWilly’s recent post about these). I would like something really light. The drawback is that I guess they are less durable than more traditional poles. Does anyone have long term experience (good or bad) with poles like this, or would you recommend something else? All advice welcome!
I am going to be doing a 2-3 day section hike in the next month or two, and will probably buy or borrow some poles to use.
Thanks for your ideas, and I hope to see you on the AT! (I hope to be the one with the shiny new poles)
I got a pair of Black Diamond Ergo aluminum poles for more durability and the flic locks. They weigh about 20 oz.
I dont have a lot of experience with trekking poles. Never have really used poles that much and was going to get a pair of GG LT4 poles for the 8 oz weight but they are expensive.
I figure for $57 I can always sell them and get GG poles later if I want.
Link...........
http://www.sunnysports.com/Catalog.aspx?op=ItemDisplay&ProductID=BKDTREC&Page=1&Term=black%20ergo&Hit=1
Go with the LT4's...you won't regret it... :) I love mine...
Then again, I have nothing against my much heavier Leki's either...
It depends on the user whether or not they will hold up and last. My Titanium Goat Poles are pretty much the same as the Gossamer Gear poles and I've used them for over 3000miles including a thru-hike. But other people have broken even stronger poles. If you move aggressively down the trail like a bulldozer, not looking where you plant them, holding them in a death grip so if they get stuck and resist motion you won't be able to let go of them, any pole may bend or break when they get stuck between rocks.
I like these type of lightweight poles (3.4oz/each for mine), since even if I find myself carrying them on flat terrain, I don't wind the weight. As they serve double use as the supports for my shelter, they don't really add any weight.
These Z- poles are pretty much a game-changer in the world of trekking poles - I used Leki Poles for a long time and then later just skipped carrying poles - now, with these, I'm back with poles - they are super light and fold up so easily that when you don't want them they just tag along on your pack - no sweat. You won't be sorry if you get these:
www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/mountain/video/how-to-video-black-diamond-zpoles
The Gossamer Gear poles are very light. I'd definitely go with adjustable poles so that you have a pole that you can use for various shelter setups. Adjustable poles are also easier to put into a car, which is a big consideration when hitching. Also, a nonadjustable pole would be a big hassle if you wanted to use an umbrella.
mn_scout
02-11-2012, 12:45
I've not used poles before either, but am practicing now for an AZT trek in a month. I just got a pair of aluminum Outdoor Products poles at Walmart - 9.5oz. each - for $15/each.
I've pounded them up and down a short steep hill every day the past week for about 40 miles and they're doing fine. I figured I'm the guy that would break a super-skinny pole, and I wasn't sure if I'd like them so I'll carry the extra 10oz. and spend the extra $100 on other stuff. After 800miles, that $10/oz. might seem like a bargain. :-)
Harald Hope
02-11-2012, 14:37
That's an amazing deal on the BD ergo cork, I'd jump on that if you are even remotely thinking of trying poles. I would avoid the walmart type poles, they are notorious for failing, you get what you pay for, I read their website reviews and everyone noted they were junk quality and prone to failure. The BD flicklocks are really great, the poles weigh about 18 oz a pair. I got a friend a pair of komperdells, lightly used, and one of the tighteners is slipping, and that's much higher quality than the walmart garbage. The flick locks are really excellent, good engineering.
Every thread I've read on carbon vs aluminum always fills with reports, firsthand, of carbon failing catastrophically just when needed most. So I think it really depends on what type of hiking you do, and how much you are going to depend on the pole in critical situations. My personal theory on why carbon fails for some and not others involves the fine chips you get from hitting rocks, that eventually weaken and break the carbon fibers, but I also know that carbon fiber while strong, is used in such small amounts to achieve low weight that the poles, aluminum vs carbon fiber, are really not doing the same job. I noted also the relatively small weight difference between the bd carbon folding and aluminum folding, which I suspect comes to the fact they are using enough carbon to have them not break, ie, they are heavier.
As to knees, they work, but you have to use them correctly, they work very well going up and down hills, flats/rolling not so much, but I find any downhill at all they take pressure off the knees to a really large extent. I found it interesting on a recent simiilar thread on backpackinglight.com, it turned out that a significant number of posters who didn't like trekking poles were using them completely wrong, thus losing a lot of the real benefits. Think cross country skiing in terms of the correct motions and use, but that analogy only works if you learned how to use poles correctly on skis.
These Z- poles are pretty much a game-changer in the world of trekking poles - I used Leki Poles for a long time and then later just skipped carrying poles - now, with these, I'm back with poles - they are super light and fold up so easily that when you don't want them they just tag along on your pack - no sweat. You won't be sorry if you get these:
www.blackdiamondequipment.com/en-us/journal/mountain/video/how-to-video-black-diamond-zpoles
Just so you have the other side of the story, I bought these, thought they would be great, broke one on the second day of use. BD was of no help, basically told me I was too badass to use lightweight equipment. $100 + down the drain. Last BD product I'll buy.
Harald Hope
02-11-2012, 14:55
Forgot, also important: cork grips that are soft vs rubber that gives you blisters, I was lucky and an REI sales guy steered me away from the cheaper poles, and told me why? Cork comes in different hardnesses, too hard, like the rei/komperdell type, and it doesn't adjust to your hands, rubber sticks and blisters over longer trips for many users. Straps, I saw immediately with the cheaper poles, which used just straps of nylon, vs the padded straps leki/bd use. No strap at all to me defeats the entire purpose of using trekking poles, not clear on why anyone even does that to be honest.
Non-adjustable defeats, as noted, another benefit, collapsing the poles, so you can transport them. This was the actual reason I got mine at first, I've always used a hiking stick, but carrying it on buses / trains was getting to be a real pain, that's worth thinking on.
Another thing the REI guy pointed out to me, which is a subtle thing, but he's right there too, is that cheaper poles have this shiver when you plant them, which you might not notice at first, but after a few miles, you really start to feel it, it's a vibration that is annoying.
I've never tried carbon poles, just like I've never tried a carbon framed bike vs real steel, for pretty much exactly the same reason, steel/aluminum is much stronger, especially over time and wear and use. One poster on bpl noted he dumped his carbon poles when he saw how much they were flexing holding up his tent, that's the same exact flex that leads to lateral snapping failure, ie, when you lean on them really heavily to save yourself from falling down a cliff or into a raging river you are crossing. the weights of the light carbon are of course appealing, but to me is not enough to override the inherent weakness of carbon tubing when it's that thin, especially with chips happening from rocks. But each to their own, everyone has different styles, and accepts different compromises.
When I was younger I thought poles were status symbols, at about age 60 started having knee problems, got a set of poles, still hiking at 70. Stay away from walmart poles, have seen them discarded along the trail.
Harald Hope
02-11-2012, 15:03
deadeye, I'll take that as another first hand account of why not to use ultrathin carbon fiber poles, I see these on every single thread. I am however very surprised that black diamond reacted that way. What did the warranty say? Were there any extenuating circumstances, your weight? something else? Usually companies like this have great customer service and support. Or do they simply not warranty these poles in the same way?
Harald Hope
02-11-2012, 15:07
ken209, your point is the key one. When you are young, you feel you are indestructable, and so begin the slow process of destroying your knees. Starting to use trekking poles before the knees start to wear out from abuse is far better than waiting, like you, or me, until the damage is largely done. This is a hard point to get people to see, certainly couldn't have argued myself into it 15 years ago - UNLESS... someone had given me a pair, showed me how to use them, then sent me down a mountain with 50 pounds on my back. At that point, I would never have stopped using them. Also for climbing it.
This is not unlike the people who walk through poison oak, claiming immunity, and thereby remove their resistance piece by piece, until one day they have lost it, and now get poison oak.
kevperro
02-11-2012, 17:03
When I was younger I thought poles were status symbols, at about age 60 started having knee problems, got a set of poles, still hiking at 70. Stay away from walmart poles, have seen them discarded along the trail.
I've been using trekking poles going on 25 years. I've not used every new brand but started with the Leki used on over 2000+ miles of hiking including a 1200 mile trip, 500 mile trip and several approx. 100 mile trips. They were long-lasting but over the years due to a number of reasons I replaced them a couple times.
Now I use only the Walmart poles. They are not as high of quality as the Leki but I find them perfectly acceptable, especially considering the price. I've only damaged poles by slipping and falling in the snow with a pole planted. The slide/fall down hill with the pole stuck 12" or so in the wet snow can cause you to bend a pole. I did this just two weeks ago but I've never damaged them in non-snow conditions. The Wally-world poles have never let me down and they are a great choice if you are experimenting to see if poles are for you. Personally... I know poles are for me and I still use them rather than pay the big dollars for more expensive flavors.
I very seldom see them talked about here on WB but I use Exped Alpine 125 poles. 13 oz for the pair and they seem to be strong and durable. The biggest reason I went to a trekking pole vs a stick is the ability to callapse and carring on my pack when not being used.
Hey neighbor! I'm a big fan of both the fixed length and adjustable GG poles. Two winters ago, I did break off a tip when it went down between two rocks under the snow. I was able to repair this good as new. That's the only problem I've had in >800 trail miles.
deadeye, I'll take that as another first hand account of why not to use ultrathin carbon fiber poles, I see these on every single thread. I am however very surprised that black diamond reacted that way. What did the warranty say? Were there any extenuating circumstances, your weight? something else? Usually companies like this have great customer service and support. Or do they simply not warranty these poles in the same way?
I brought the poles back to the retailer I bought them from - that may have been my mistake, and I may have had better luck dealing directly with BD. This is the first time that retailer has let me down, but they said BD wouldn't replace for the reason stated, i.e. I shouldn't expect lightweight equipment to hold up to heavy duty use. My weight shouldn't have been an issue at 185#. I'll get myself a new pair of Lekis (I left mine at a parking lot, that's when I got the BD poles) if they still make all-cork grips. The Lekis held up for 8 years, and would have held up longer if I didn't #%@$#% lose them! Overall, I was disappointed with my retailer (Outdoor Gear Exchange, Burlington, VT), Black Diamond, and I sure won't put any stock in Backpacker gear reviews, either.
jakedatc
02-12-2012, 00:56
"I've never tried carbon poles, just like I've never tried a carbon framed bike vs real steel, for pretty much exactly the same reason, steel/aluminum is much stronger, especially over time and wear and use."
That is why thousands of cyclists use carbon frames, wheels and even more forks every day without incident. Many of them pros riding them 10-20,000 miles a year.
Also, failures will always get more threads than oh... hiking with nothing happening. how many thousands of poles go thousands of miles without any issues. Carbon poles will flex and return when aluminum poles will just bend and be bent forever. i highly doubt small chips in the outer clear layer have anything to do with the structure of the pole. Carbon hockey sticks take a beating and a whole lot of force is need to snap them.
Irrational fears.. that is a great way to make purchase decisions.
BD Alpine CF flick locks for me. light and adjustable for my tarptent. Also don't use the straps. i don't need straps to balance myself going downhill or balancing across/through whatever. it's hiking not cross country skiing.
Its kinda funny that a lot of people wont try carbon because they dont think it is as strong. The reason I switched to carbon was greater strenght. My aluminum poles were flexing under my weight and if I continued to use them I know they would have bent. My carbon poles never flex or show signs of stress. The difference is instead of bending they will snap, either pole would be useless after breaking or bending so Id rather have my lighter weight higher strenght carbon vs aluminum.
I've done a lot of miles with carbon fiber poles and was a fan until I slipped on a patch of ice in the Smokies and snapped my pole in 2010. I ultimately replaced these with the lightest titanium collapsible poles I could find with no built-in springs ("anti-shock" or whatever it's called). When I bought my current (Leki) poles, Leki offered a lifetime guarantee on all poles except for their carbon fiber poles, so another way of saying it is the lightest poles I could get a lifetime guarantee on.
Catch is, they keep changing their models --- looking on their site now I don't see anything off-hand like the ones I bought just a couple of years ago.
Harald Hope
02-12-2012, 14:17
jakedatc, BD Alpine CF flick locks use large, thick, and most important, relatively heavy, carbon cross sections, and weigh only a tiny bit less than the aluminum version. That's why I specifically pointed to the thinness of the ultralights as the main problem, not carbon per se. So when ipeople note their carbon poles snapped, I am guessing that in most cases, those are the ultralights, not the regular weighted bd or lekis, which weigh so little less than the aluminum versions that it really has to be considered a luxury item, ie, nice to have, but certainly not necessary. Those might well in fact be stronger too for all I know.
Black Diamond Alpine Carbon Cork Trekking Poles - Pair Specs
1 lb. 1.4 oz. ounces
that's a lot of money to save about .6 ounces, don't you think? I shoot for $15 an ounce to trim weight, that seems to be a good formula, unless you myog, then it's time you spend.
Re carbon bike frames, you'll have to forgive me for my lack of clarity, racers generally get new frames every year on in the pro ranks. When I refer to longevity, I'm not talking about a season or three, I'm talking about a decade or three, like all my steel frames have on them. Including laying down the frame now and then in a crash. A crash is not unlike the cumulative effect of multiple rock strikes on the trekking pole. The other thing you're completely ignoring is that carbon frames, in case you were around long enough to see how they developed, have increased every key frame section diameter consistently over the time of their development. Why? Because they were too weak and whippy when the sections were sized the same diameters as steel. So now they go with super thin walled, but very wide diameter frame sections, and forks, especially in key stress areas. You should see my old Ritchy custom chrome moly hand made fork, it's a slim, elegant creature, tapering down to almost nothing by the dropout, about 1/2" inch I'd estimate. Now pull out your carbon fork and take a look at it. Notice how thick and wide it is? There's a reason for that, it's not an accident, that's how it has to be to be as strong as my old narrow fork, or at least strong enough to not snap. Now, lay down your bike at say, 10mph, hit the ground with your frame. Why do you think they generally do not use carbon derailleur hangers? It's because they snap off too easily. why do you think they use aluminum seat post binders? Same reason. Far too weak in that way.
Now find me constantly used carbon frames that are over 10 years old. then look for 20 year old steel frames. You'll notice a pattern here, I think. Carbon fiber has always been a material that has been very hard to use. Check for carbon tent poles too whiile you're at it. I think you'll see a pattern develop, it's quite easy to catch.
BrianLe, the warranty is the actual fact of durability, they do not offer it because they cannot offer it, they would lose too much money. That means statistically they are breaking far more often than their aluminum lines, exactly as I would expect.
Personally, I would try carbon, but I just can't go buying expensive gadgets all the time just to test something. I believe that, over the short term, say, 5 years, comparably weighted carbon poles will probably be a bit stronger than aluminum, but the cost is a lot higher, and certainly isn't worth it to me, I prefer materials that last a long time. What I would definitely n ot try are the super light poles, like the gossamer gear things, this stuff isn't magic, if they knock that much weight off, they aren't as strong.
There's nothing irrational about my views on carbon fiber, they are based on following the developments, and failures, over the years, and seeing how they use it to best results, and where it has simply failed totally (tent poles in general for example), and where it has done well, and how it has done well. Carbon fiber is a very difficult material to do well in the best of cases, and it has inherent strengths and weaknesses, the main strength being lighter weight compared to metals. But for real use, I'll take the metal every time, no question, I'm not made out of money.
jakedatc
02-12-2012, 17:48
I got mine at Steep and cheap for a lot less than that. they are noticeably lighter than my gf's Leki aluminum. mine have a rubber grip that i've never had issues with. Also every section is replaceable by BD
Pro's use last year's frame as this year's training bike. and are then usually either kept or sold off. and i think 10,000-20000 miles a year is a **** ton more than most people do in quite a few years and a LOT harder use.
Carbon frames are larger and wider because it's more aerodynamic that way. also they can get LIGHTER by using thinner walls and wider shapes. of course the bottom bracket and head tubes are reinforced. your steel bike has lugs welding the thing together too.
Aluminum derailler hangers break also. they are bolt on so they can be replaced.
I bet your old steel fork weighs more than this frame. This is also the bike that Cervelo teams use for Paris-Roubaix. including Cancellara's wins..
http://www.cervelo.com/i/bikes/2012/R3/r3-690-380-ultegra.jpg
Enjoy your heavy ass bike. mine is only AL with carbon fork and stays but i'm sure i'd be waiting for you at the top of every hill. but steel is real..... Heavy.
Blue Jay
02-12-2012, 18:44
ken209, your point is the key one. When you are young, you feel you are indestructable, and so begin the slow process of destroying your knees. Starting to use trekking poles before the knees start to wear out from abuse is far better than waiting, like you, or me, until the damage is largely done.
Far far better is not to abuse them at all, EVER. There is absolutely no reason backpacking should destroy your kness and in fact makes them stronger. Do not carry too much weight, do not walk all day for months or constant 20's and you will never need crutches (poles). This is the hard point to get the pole religion to see.
Harald Hope
02-12-2012, 19:02
jakedatc, I'm not racing you, I outgrew that need years ago, now I just like riding for riding's sake, as I always have done. I'm glad you are being a good consumer, buying things you don't need so you can post stuff like you just did,, like, oh, I consumed this expensive item, so I am better than you who isn't consuming this,but is using something that has already lasted about 25 plus years, and going. My bike goes exactly as fast as I need it to go, and it's my only means of transport, I don't own a car. Can you say that? I doubt it. What's your car weigh, 2000 pounds? 2500? Gas weighs about 8 pounds a gallon, pavement chewed up, needing replacement, CO2 emitted per mile, don't make me laugh, a car tire / wheel combo weighs what, 60 pounds? It's funny to me how people ignore their real consumption and weights and focus only on one part of the package. I can leave my city bike locked up for hours and find it still there when I came back, and do. I could work out the physics of work saved by 1 or 2 pound lighter frame vs work cost in paying for it, over decades.... thing is, I am not yet so old and crippled where that pound or two makes any difference, but the rock solid reliability counts for something too. Doesn't need a replaceable hanger because it's steel, it doesn' t break, that's because it's stronger. Maybe when I hit 65, don't know, we'll see, maybe then that 2 pounds on the frame will matter, but I doubt it. I'm assuming you own a car here, apologies if you don't, but given your clear consumerist mindset, I'd say it's a safe bet you do.
However, when I raced mountain bikes, boy did I appreciate real steel frames, every time the bike slid 20 or 30 feet on a long crash... get up and ride away, no damage to frame beyond scraped paint. Ah those were the days...
I paid 40 bucks at a garage sale for my city bike, 12 years ago, was used, nice old road bike, nishiki, 80s model, replaced back wheel, tires. Everything is fully user serviceable, replaceable, easy to work on, bearings, etc, all real stuff. Good steel isn't heavy, and if the extra pound or two is going to make or break your ride, your conditioning is shot anyway, if you couldn't make it up the mountain because of that steel frame, well... and besides that weight only matters when you are competing against others who are using the same equipment. .
People who really know bikes know why steel is superior, but that's not really fit for this discussion. I'm not clear on what posting a pro's bike picture is supposed to prove, I know where to get bike talk, cyclingnews.com for example, when I want to check out the latest toys they give the pros. But that is unrelated to either backpacking or anything else except elite racing. Formula 1 uses carbon fiber bodies too, that doesn't mean anything except when you have a lot of cash to throw away or sponsors who will foot the bill, you can use the most exotic and impractical materials in the world. Bikes are also not a very good example re carbon, because the only thing they hit is air, so air resistance is key, so they can go big tubes. Big thin tubes on a trekking pole would mean instant failure due to rock chips on the walls, not an option. Show me a picture of a carbon framed bike that's hit the pavement at speed and I'll show you cracks and splinters...
I could pull out the ritchy fork and weigh it, but that would be silly, but I'm going to guess it's about 1 pound, give or take. That fork is about 35 years old now, got it from a bike shop, that was before ritchy made mountain bikes, way back in the day. Don't use that bike much anymore though, road riding just doesn't thrill me anymore, I'd rather backpack or hike. I'd say people who don't know what a real steel frame is will say what you say, while people who know what real bikes are and what durable means know why you go with steel. I'm not, again, interested in racing you, that's such a weird response, how old are you anyway?
This is however way off tangent from the thread topic, which was I believe ultra light carbon poles. Not carbon poles that cost almost 2x more than aluminum and weigh .6oz less,. that is just a matter of people who have too much money to spend, and companies figuring out how to get some of it from you.
The people that most impressed me were the old school euros, they would go everywhere on their heavy, clunky, 3 speeds, or whatever, didn't need all this fancy stuff to do the same stuff we do.
jakedatc
02-12-2012, 19:18
If steel is better than the best riders in the world would be riding that. they can have anything they want and they ride carbon frames and wheels. they ADD lead weight to their seat tube to get them UP to the ridiculous bike weight minimum. Mountain bikes are being made from carbon fiber too. Lance's Leadville 100 bike weighed 19-20lbs with full suspension and 29er wheels. but i'm sure 100mi mountain bike races are really easy on equipment.
if you didn't notice the rear stays on that Cervelo are about 1/2" diameter. it is a mainstream bike that costs 3100 bucks with a Rival groupset on it. thin can be strong too if laid out right. Airplanes are made of carbon fiber too.... soo you may want to take a steel train instead.
just because you are irrationally afraid of a material doesn't mean that it is not good.
Just so you have the other side of the story, I bought these, thought they would be great, broke one on the second day of use. BD was of no help, basically told me I was too badass to use lightweight equipment. $100 + down the drain. Last BD product I'll buy.
man, really? that sucks - I've had good experience with BD - on the climbing and backpacking side. How did they break? Seems hard to do? Maybe you are a badass. What dealer did you get them from? Maybe they could help?
Harald Hope
02-12-2012, 20:05
jake, you seem to be utterly unable to grasp that there are other factors that determine quality than throwaway lightweight pro racing needs. What pros use has nothing to do with my day to day needs, nor yours, unless you are riding at a competitive level. You seem to be a the picture perfect example of why, however, bike companies sponsor riders and teams, it's precisely to get regular consumers to buy the overpriced and overfeatured bikes in the first place , and to go, oh, yeah, Cancellera won on that bike (when he actually probably won because of his superior epo brand and 'medical trainers', in sad truth), so that means carbon from company x is faster and I should buy it. So their marketing dollars are not going to waste on you, whew!. The fact you keep bring this up is a strong indicator that you really have very little idea about bikes, especially steel frames, but that's fine. Each material has pluses and minuses, what pros do is pick one, or really, a set of pluses, and accept that the minuses are outweighed by the pluses. The pluses with pro bike frames are weight and moldability (see for example the tendency towards super beefy carbon bottom bracket areas, required because of the inherent whippiness of carbon, and made possible by the light weight of the material). This yields some very interesting possibilities, highly relevant to world class cyclists, totally irrelevant to me. I have the feeling you don't even know how to work on a bike, have you ever even adjusted ball bearings on a headset, bottom bracket, or hubs? My feeling is you have almost no experience with bicycles at all beyond buying them now and then and riding them at some level, that's certainly what it sounds like anyway, so with that in mind, I think it's a good idea to stop pulling this thread off on a tangent of no interest to other readers, nor of any educational value to me, or I assume most other readers.
Since I have worked on bikes for decades, this stuff isn't an abstraction to me, I know what it means to use parts that are proprietary fits vs standard sized, especially when it comes to threadings, I know I what failed threads or worn out bearing race supports means in terms of real world replacements and repairs, over time, decades often. Try replacing a non standard headset size from 10 years ago, good luck.
Ultra light hikers are making a similar choice with ultralight carbon poles (not bd flick locks carbons), sacrificing strength and maybe some other features for extreme light weight. For some ultralighters, this trade off is totally worth it, otherwise they can't make their daily mileage goals, ie, the number of miles of nature they walk past per day.
Some of these issues are relevant to carbon poles, but as I noted, when you force yourself to compare apples to apples, say, a carbon bd trail ergo cork aluminum to a trail ergo cork carbon, there is a 0.6oz weight difference. You seem to have some difficulty in keeping this apples to apples comparison in mind. If you want to compare leki aluminum to leki carbon, then do that, bd and leki are different companies and use different technologies that weigh different amounts for each type of pole. This tiny weight difference is not, I believe, what the thread starter had in mind, that's just an expensive thing way to get a comparable functionality at about the same weight. The warranty on the product will show you what the statistical failure rates are, fairly accurately. Everything else is just web forum chatter. For example, if it's really true that bd does not warranty their ultra light foldables, then that's for one and only one reason: they break all the time. If you want to go beyond web forum chatter, research it, see what the original warranty was, and then see what it was 1 or 2 years later. If it was originally a long time, then was dropped to short or none, that means the breakage rate was very high, to the point they lost money on them. You seem not particularly interested in actual facts or weights, so I think we can quite safely end our discussion here and now, nothing positive will come out of it.
But I would want to hear more on the bd warranty issue before assuming anything for real re their policies.
Steel isn't used in any trekking poles that I know of, so I don't see the point of discussing it. Aluminum is used, but that is also weak and prone to fatigue. In the Sierras this summer, I saw more bent and broken aluminum trekking poles than intact poles, so I really don't see the point of aluminum poles over carbon poles unless it's to save money.
SunnyWalker
05-21-2012, 00:25
I bought a pair of carbon ski poles for $3.00 at a thrift store, Work great.
Cherokee Bill
05-21-2012, 19:31
I have a GOOD pair of "Leki" poles I have had for about 5-years, with many hundres of miles on them, still good as new! They were pricey, but I have witnessed countless dozens of cheaper brands fail friends & hikers on the Trail!
Get the VERY BEST you can afford! Additionally, the vast majority of hikers after a few days, end up HATING the poles with the "springy, shock-absorber" affair, so STAY AWAY fromem!
I have rubber-tips I can put on my Leki's if I am walking on pavement, works fine! In fact I can not go out walking, hiking of b-packing w/o my poles!
Many in my neighborhood have gone to poles for their daily walks and lovem!
My 2-cents
OK, I'm from Philly but............
I want poles that can be used as a weapon, and to hold up my 230 lb (and dropping) body weight. More the latter.............and of course, hold up my tent
The longer I do this the more I see where gear purchases, or re-purchases happens. Gear wears out, poles break.........of course, new gear comes out.
Hiking poles - I want something that I can count on when needed, especially on down's. Hiking poles have saved my butt more than once!
Love my Black Diamond Distance FL Z Poles. Light weight. Comfortable straps.
Experts use carbon fiber on bikes and kayaks for extreme performance but they also have sponsorship to replace these when they break. A carbon fiber slalom kayak would run about $4k versus a $1k plastic boat. The carbon fiber boat would not last longer then your first head on crash into the rocks. The plastic kayak will last 10+ years. Carbon is strong but also very hard to repair.
kayak karl
05-21-2012, 23:13
,but carbon kayaks are so much easier to port. :)
poles: i use 3 pc. carbon pacer poles (http://www.pacerpole.co.uk/).
rocketsocks
05-22-2012, 01:06
,but carbon kayaks are so much easier to port. :)
poles: i use 3 pc. carbon pacer poles (http://www.pacerpole.co.uk/).I like the ergonomics of those,after three fix its on my wrist,those could be a possibility.
I haven't done any thru hikes etc... but I started using pacer poles over a year ago on my overnights, and bi-weekly walks and just did 100 mile hike with them. I love them. I know they have help increase my efficiency. I chose them because of the natural wrist position.
I'd used random sticks and poles ect through the years, and I feel this really is a great product.
Wise Old Owl
05-22-2012, 19:45
Stiffness
Carbon fiber is stiffer than titanium. Because carbon fiber is a material, bike manufacturers can lay the fabric in specific directions to target lateral and vertical stiffness. Most titanium bike builders have to rely on larger tubing to create more stiffness, which increases weight.
Weight
Titanium bikes are heavier than their carbon fiber counterparts. Carbon fiber has an incredible strength-to-weight ratio, and since it is a material, manufacturers can easily make it thicker where needed and thinner where it’s not
Strength
The amount of force it takes to permanently deform carbon fiber is very high. However, a hard crash can compromise the frame’s strength. Titanium is a very strong material but is relatively brittle compared with other metals because of this.
Shape
Carbon fiber can be molded into any shape imagined. This gives the manufacturer the ability to make the most efficient bike frame possible. Titanium is limited by their shape.
Cost
Both carbon fiber and titanium are costly. However, the increasingly popular carbon fiber frames are helping to lower their price.