Cooking: Alcohol or White gas?

[swjohnsey]

Just got through doin' a little experiment, boil two cups of water using my alcohol set up and my gas set up.

Gas set up: MSR Whisperlite International, Evernew titanium 1.3l pot w/lid - 2 min 30 sec to full boil, 14 grams of fuel

Alcohol set up: Super Venom stove w/windscreen, reflector, Evernew .9 titanium mug w/lid - 7 min to full boil 22 grams of fuel

My gas rig weighs about 390 grams more than my alcohol rig. I figure I cook about 3 times a day.

For this setup the break even point is about 16 days, the point where the alcohol rig plus fue is equal to the weight of the gas rig plus fuel.

I sure like the way my Whisperlite cooks, fast, no futzin' with windscreens but it looks like the weight penalty (about 12 ounces/340 grams) is too much.

[The Cleaner]

+1 for white gas.Just last week when I met one of this seasons 1st thru hikers,Second Stage,she was carrying 2 stoves.One was a homemade alky and the other was a pocket rocket(butane/propane).At 4pm with air temp 32 she was having trouble with both staves.I guess they were cold from being in her pack all day.Anyway I quickly fired-up my Svea and heated water for her.Later she did get the alky going but she had to keep adjusting this&that and finally got some hot water.Just wonder how far she will get before getting tired of all that and get a winter stove.Yes they are heavier but a hot drink&meal are priceless on a cold day...

[swjohnsey]

I think I will start with the Whisperlite and switch to alcohol when I get past Mt Rogers.

[garlic08]

That's a great experiment and report. Thanks for those data. I'd never tried to meter white gas, but the alcohol use and time sounds just right. I'd previously heard that the break even point is way earlier than what you calculated. Have you double-checked the gas use? It sounds too high.

I've heard a good rule-of-thumb, that if you routinely carry more than 10 oz of alcohol, you're probably better off with gas. And a corollary, that if you do more cooking than boiling water once a day, alcohol might not be for you.

This is all academic for me, since I now hike stoveless. But I sure enjoyed my alcohol stove for thru hiking and I took my Whisperlite on a lot of trips before that, and still have both.

[swjohnsey]

I just ran one trial. I will run the gas again to see what I get.

[swjohnsey]

Did another trial with the Whisperlite, 15 grams this time.

[dla]

I guess it depends on what is important to you. I value reliability, so I use a Trangia burner (see my setup). I'm not in a race and I don't need to melt snow for water. The Trangia always works. There are faster, lighter solutions, and there are burner designs (whitebox) that I think are noteworthy. Saving weight doesn't mean much when you can't get your stove going on a cold morning. Probably the only gas stove design that ever impressed me is the SVEA 123 - and I don't carry that little stinky screamer because my alky setup is good enough.

[swjohnsey]

I have a Trangia and a Whitebox. I need to get out the Trangia and see how it compares to the Super Venom. It is nice to just put the lid back on.

[garlic08]

Did another trial with the Whisperlite, 15 grams this time.

Cool--thanks for the extra datum. It sounds like the "rule of thumb" numbers I had were skewed in favor of white gas.

[Feral Bill]

What were your air temperature, water temperature, and pot diameter? I'd like to try this with my trusty SVEA.

[The Cleaner]

What were your air temperature, water temperature, and pot diameter? I'd like to try this with my trusty SVEA. It's probably not the stove for thru hikers but it does work in any weather anytime.As for fuel consumption,I always carry more than I need just in case I might heat water for others....

[swjohnsey]

Air temp and water temp about 65 F. Pot diameter 6". Stove not turned up all the way.

[tuswm]

White gas has its advantages. When u r cooking for two in colder weather. And you are cooking not just boiling water. And cooking 3 times a day the weight of lighter stoves like the simmerlight isn't a big deal any more.

Also in you test some of the 15 grams could be fuel from primming or left over in the hose. White gas has over twice The energy per weight. Then I also altered a pot with heat sinks to be over twice as efficient as a red pot with out a curved bottom. So theoretically it would use less then 1/4 the volume of an alchy stove.

But I only carry it below freeing.

[LDog]

My Monatauk Gnat canister stove weighs 1.7 oz. I figured that taking off with 12 ozs of alcohol to cook for 5 days is heavier than my stove and a canister. If I was going out for a couple of nights, an alcohol stove, and a few ounces of fuel makes sense. Add in extreme cold, and the whole equation changes. But for my upcoming thru attempt, I'll stick with the Gnat.

[Franco]

Gas set up: MSR Whisperlite International, Evernew titanium 1.3l pot w/lid - 2 min 30 sec to full boil, 14 grams of fuel

That would suggest you used the Whisperlite at or around full power.
Turn it down to about half power. It will take one or two extra minutes but will probably use around 10g of gas.
Franco

[russb]

Not all alcohol stoves are the same in regards to fuel usage efficiency, boil times, and usability in the cold. For example, many talk about not being able to use alcohol in the cold. Well my Fancee Feest (by zelph) was used a few weeks ago at -22*F with no difficulty whatsoever. I had to take no extra steps, no pre-warming the fuel or priming the stove. The same stove was used a few years ago in single digits *F to bail out a whisperlight user who couldn't get his stove to prime (probably didn't clean it regularly). Another aspect of comparison is to include the setup time in the "time to boil" not just from when the pot is placed on a fully lit stove. Not that it is a race, as one of the reasons I enjoy the woods is to escape being a slave to the clock.

[swjohnsey]

Gas set up: MSR Whisperlite International, Evernew titanium 1.3l pot w/lid - 2 min 30 sec to full boil, 14 grams of fuel

That would suggest you used the Whisperlite at or around full power.
Turn it down to about half power. It will take one or two extra minutes but will probably use around 10g of gas.
Franco

Not at full power, probably around half, not making much noise.

The Super Venom is a very efficient alcohol stove.

[Camping Dave]

For this setup the break even point is about 16 days

In the wintertime, when it's cold, the whitegas v alcohol breakpoint for me is sometimes the first night when I'm baking muffins, or filling quart bottles with warm water and stuffing them into my bag, or the next morning when I finish my 4th cup of hot cocoa then wash my hands and face in warm water.

[dla]

Here's my setup:
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LHYLXp562-Y" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[dla]

http://www.youtube.com/embed/LHYLXp562-Y

[BJStuart]

Gas set up: MSR Whisperlite International, Evernew titanium 1.3l pot w/lid

Can you fit your Whisperlite inside the 1.3l Ti pot? I've been thinking of getting some lighter pots, but they all seem a bit small to take the Whisperlite & I'm really used to having the whole setup inside my old MSR Alpine pots.

[Feral Bill]

43 year old SVEA warmed up ( maybe 3 minutes), 60 degree water, 65 degree air, 6" diameter aluminum pot, covered. Burned 4 g white gas/min, rolling boil in in 4.5 min. In the past 1 liter has boiled in 7 minutes. Will simmer and will run flat out about 45 minutes.

[swjohnsey]

Can you fit your Whisperlite inside the 1.3l Ti pot? I've been thinking of getting some lighter pots, but they all seem a bit small to take the Whisperlite & I'm really used to having the whole setup inside my old MSR Alpine pots.

Won't fit. Might fit in 1.9l pot, but I don't have one.

[Tinker]

Won't fit. Might fit in 1.9l pot, but I don't have one.

If you take off the fuel bottle it will fit easily.

Fwiw: I'd take my Supercat and alcohol for the whole trail and take advantage of campfires to save fuel whenever possible.

If I sleep with my fuel and water bottles, the stove fires up and boils the water like it's summer even when it's 10 degrees. It does help, however, to warm your water before you sleep with it. ;)

[Tinker]

If you take off the fuel bottle it will fit easily.

Fwiw: I'd take my Supercat and alcohol for the whole trail and take advantage of campfires to save fuel whenever possible.

If I sleep with my fuel and water bottles, the stove fires up and boils the water like it's summer even when it's 10 degrees. It does help, however, to warm your water before you sleep with it. ;)

Sorry, another Fwiw: I never remove my fuel bottle from my Whisperlite when I use it (only in winter) to save wear and tear on the grommet that seals the fuel tube. I keep it separate in an outside pocket on my pack. The pot can then hold some of my food.

[BJStuart]

If you take off the fuel bottle it will fit easily.


That's what I do with my Alpine set; I've always removed the fuel bottle & never had a problem with that grommet. I might just have to get one in my hand to see...
Thanks for the input.

[swjohnsey]

I'm sittin' here with a Wisperlite International and a 1.3l Evernew titanium pot w/lid. There ain't no way you can get that stove in that pot with the lid on fuel bottle or no fuel bottle.

[zelph]

I sure like the way my Whisperlite cooks, fast, no futzin' with windscreens but it looks like the weight penalty (about 12 ounces/340 grams) is too much.

That's the one you should use. You're healthy, strong so 12 ounces can easily be carried. Go with what you like.

[swjohnsey]

That's the one you should use. You're healthy, strong so 12 ounces can easily be carried. Go with what you like.

I'm gonna carry my Whisperlite 'til Daleville, VA, then switch to the Super Venom.

[tuswm]

I would like to add something to this thread. My summer house doesnt have a kitchen. I cook twice a day for 4 people using a simmer lite. Its the other lighter MSR white gas stove. white gas was a pain to get and $$$$$. I started using regular unleaded gas. in several years not I have never had a cloggor any other problems. its way cheaper and easier to find.

No it does smell. I wouldn't cook in your tent but other than that it work great for a fraction of the price.

[lemon b]

In cold weather Whisperlite. Have all kinds of extra parts. Remember a few years back there was actually a white gas supply shortage. Other fuels do get messy, and I change out the valvue. Definitly haven't ruled switching over to alcohol in better weather. Now on short summer I put a pocket rocket in my pot.

[cabbagehead]

White gas is probably best for cold weather. I sell alcohol stoves. I don't know the temperature at which they become ineffective. They can withstand a reasonable amount of coldness. If you use an alcohol or canister stove in cold weather, place it on an upside down, empty can.

I have an Optimus Nova multifuel stove. I clean it before every use by slamming it upside down on a rock, and then slamming it right-side up on a rock.

[pepkbell]

always depends on the weather