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Mudgrip
03-21-2005, 18:18
Has anyone run into a crazy acting hiker in TN or GA who goes by the name Mountain Man and his teenage daughter Mountain Dew ? What is up with them ? :confused:

bulldog49
03-21-2005, 18:25
What are you referring to?

Mudgrip
03-21-2005, 18:33
My friend and I ran into them along the trail. Something is not right with their situation. I don't think the girl (Mtn Dew) has ever been in school. I'm a little concerned about her well being. They seem to live on the trail.:(

steve hiker
03-21-2005, 21:17
I ran into them at the Flint Mountain and Hogback Ridge shelters about a month ago. No, they're not your typical yuppie hikers. No, they're not crazy either. They have very basic gear that they must have gotten at a Wal-Mart, which will automatically generate contempt in most yuppie thru-hikers.

We waited out a snowstorm at Hogback, so I got to spend a fair amount of time talking with them. They're from New Hampshire, and are slowly hiking the trail. Mountain Man told me some interesting things about making maple syrup which I knew little about. Mountain Dew is a sweet little girl and MM claims she's home schooled, but I figured it wasn't any of my business so didn't pry. MM is a little excitable, but they're good folk and friendly.

My take is, leave them alone. They're like a blast from a couple of generations ago, which is refreshing. No need to go poking your nose into everybody's business.

smokymtnsteve
03-21-2005, 21:46
even though we disagree on a couple issues stevehiker we certainly agree that yuppie conformity is not the answer,,

come to AK,,,you'd fit right in :D

Smile
03-21-2005, 21:48
Thanks Mudgrip for posting. Don't feel like it wasn't your business"...any time a red flag goes up in your head, it can't hurt to mention it here...that's what this community is about, sharing information.

Seems like you'll get some feedback from others who met them (like you just did from Steve hiker who didn't get the same vibe you did)....some good information that may help you feel better about your concerns.

mmmmm. Maple Syrup!

Badger
03-21-2005, 22:05
I remember reading about them in a trail journal from one of this year's hikers. Went back and looked it up, sure enough, a guy by the name of JAWS wrote about them between Feb 10 - 14. Here's a link to the most relevant journal entry:

http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=88263

Somewhat sensationalistic, in my opinion, but since you asked I thought I'd pass it on. I've personally met neither JAWS nor Mountain Man/Mountain Dew so I can't vouch for how reliable JAWS' take is.

Newb
03-21-2005, 22:56
My first gut reaction is take a picture of the girl and contact the missing and exploited children's center.

Tha Wookie
03-21-2005, 23:01
My first gut reaction is take a picture of the girl and contact the missing and exploited children's center.
Contact the government? For what? Hiking with Wal-mart gear?

Newb
03-21-2005, 23:06
No. Don't engage in hyperbole. I merely expressed a gut instinct...which is to protect children.

Tramper Al
03-21-2005, 23:11
Hiking in Walmart gear is the American way, no problem.

I draw no conclusions from any of the heresay or innuendo in this thread.

However, I may be idealistic, but I believe that one crucial role (and duty) of government is to protect those who cannot protect themselves, particularly children.

hikerjohnd
03-21-2005, 23:14
No. Don't engage in hyperbole. I merely expressed a gut instinct...which is to protect children.
Good gut instinct. Too many people look the other way and too many children are missing and in trouble because of that.

steve hiker
03-21-2005, 23:23
Actually, we need to protect MM and MD from the likes of some who are posting in this thread.

Tha Wookie
03-21-2005, 23:33
I agree with "protecting children". But I was just asking "FROM WHAT?"

I mean, this is a real person hiking out on the trail, even if they are wierd, but why report them?

I read the journal from jaws and I still don't see why it's anybody's business.

I met some weird folks on the AT (but I've met a lot more off the AT) but I wouldn't report them for being weird. There was a couple one year that supposedly stole money from a hostel out of the jar. That could be reported. I've had dogs follow me on trails for days (and I don't feed em). According to jaws, the Forest Service folks were "satisified with their story", and "did identity checks". So the story is there is no story.

Just a bunch of old hags sitting around weaving.

saimyoji
03-22-2005, 00:14
C'mon guys...JAWS clearly stated that the NFS was notified, questioned the pair and was satisfied with their story. Isn't that good enough for y'all? Granted, there are circumstances that we find suspicious (the stolen beagles, why a 13 yr old girl is hiking in the mountains and not in school) but our suspicions don't matter cause WE DON'T HAVE ALL THE FACTS. Sorry for shouting.

Panzer1
03-22-2005, 01:40
I do not think it is possible for MM to "home school" a 13 year old on the trail.
Just my opinion. This girl is not attending school.

Panzer

Mountain Dew
03-22-2005, 01:53
Panzer1, Your common sense radar screen is functioning at full capacity. I agree. :(

Lugnut
03-22-2005, 01:59
I met Jaws a little over a month ago at Ms Janets and he seemed like a reasonable kind of guy - with the possible exception that he was going back to Springer to start over because he had said he had taken too many zero days in Erwin! :-?

Smile
03-22-2005, 09:01
<quote=tramper al>However, I may be idealistic, but I believe that one crucial role (and duty) of government is to protect those who cannot protect themselves, particularly children</quote>

Protecting children is society's job - and fellow parents' job, not the governments job. That's why we all have eyes and ears and instincts....same way hikers all look out for each other and share info constantly with one another...

If they're cool, it'll be cool. If they're not, the majority of folks who meet them have a red flag raised in their head and may or may not act upon it.

I have homeschooled on the road....you can't do it out of pack, unless you are mailing ahead a 50 lb box of books and workbooks, registered with your local public school in your home state or doing it via laptop and forwarding your CD's(about 40 of them) from Post office to post office and finding a place to recharge your laptop,spending about 5 hours a day sitting somewhere dry DOING the schoolwork and then mailing in your tests, having a school official visit once a year to your home to see your set up and read your 'log'.....etc. etc... That much I can tell you from 15 years of homeschooling.

But then again....I'm somebody who thinks that the woods is a much better teacher than the horrible public school system we have in this country so....I don't think it's such a horrible thing to be out hiking.

If the child is hungry, lacking medical attention, being sexually abused, forced to live like this, living in fear for her life, threatened to not say anything to anyone...that's a problem.

But...........my gut would tell me their's trouble if MM is that paranoid about having his picture taken or worse HER picture taken.

Smile
03-22-2005, 09:02
TrAMPER AL: "However, I may be idealistic, but I believe that one crucial role (and duty) of government is to protect those who cannot protect themselves, particularly children"



Protecting children is society's job - and fellow parents' job, not the governments job. That's why we all have eyes and ears and instincts....same way hikers all look out for each other and share info constantly with one another...

If they're cool, it'll be cool. If they're not, the majority of folks who meet them have a red flag raised in their head and may or may not act upon it.

I have homeschooled on the road....you can't do it out of pack, unless you are mailing ahead a 50 lb box of books and workbooks, registered with your local public school in your home state or doing it via laptop and forwarding your CD's(about 40 of them) from Post office to post office and finding a place to recharge your laptop,spending about 5 hours a day sitting somewhere dry DOING the schoolwork and then mailing in your tests, having a school official visit once a year to your home to see your set up and read your 'log'.....etc. etc... That much I can tell you from 15 years of homeschooling.

But then again....I'm somebody who thinks that the woods is a much better teacher than the horrible public school system we have in this country so....I don't think it's such a horrible thing to be out hiking.

If the child is hungry, lacking medical attention, being sexually abused, forced to live like this, living in fear for her life, threatened to not say anything to anyone...that's a problem.

But...........my gut would tell me their's trouble if MM is that paranoid about having his picture taken or worse HER picture taken.

squirrel bait
03-22-2005, 10:05
This is what we have to worry about. Geez, go to any city I can show ya'll the children in the world that need help. Charity begans at home and needs all our attention. Like someone posted about where to give trail magic, their advice was to volunteer time to trail maintenance. Start with helping around your neighborhood with any project you find worthy and go from there. When you find that your neighborhood/city/town has outgrown your need to give/help then and only then by all means branch out. There is reason for concern but there might be someone closer who could benefit from your desire to contribute to their upbringing. It is admirable that we all watch out for each other and report what we see but to act out of a misguided desire to help we might cause more/deeper problems. Their story checked out, trained personnel were confident in their story and the dogs returned without charges filed. Nuff said. Oh and they still are making more miles than me. :datz

Tramper Al
03-22-2005, 10:47
Protecting children is society's job - and fellow parents' job, not the governments job. That's why we all have eyes and ears and instincts....same way hikers all look out for each other and share info constantly with one another...
I absolutely agree. I don't leave the job to government, only suggest that it is an integral part. Without some authority behind individual rights, societies have and do permit persecution of some of those less numerous or less powerful. As it turns out, I am in one of those professions which carry a legal 'duty to report' suspicion of harm befalling children.

SGT Rock
03-22-2005, 10:55
Not to totally get off on a tangent, but I have seen some excellent home schooling done by people that do stuff like this with their children. They may not be "in school" at this particular point, rather schooling in another part of the season while getting some sort of life lesson off the trail.

On the other hand I have seen "home schooling" as an excuse by lazy parents to keep from worrying about their kid going to school. I have seen some sorry excuse for parents using the home school option as a dodge for themselves, while the kid never gets a good education in anything other than playing and watching TV while the parent watched TV and talks on the telephone. I've seen a kid or two from these sorts of arrangements that can't even read by the age of 10.

I haven't seen either of these people so no comment about what that situation is all about.

AbeHikes
03-22-2005, 12:03
I do not think it is possible for MM to "home school" a 13 year old on the trail.
Just my opinion. This girl is not attending school.

Panzer
And truancy is outside the jurisdiction of the NFS. Hence, the pass on dealing with it. You'd have to get state or local police involved in the case to get action.

Hyway
03-22-2005, 12:09
Oh my God! She's a truant! Say it isn't so. I wasn't too concerned when I thought she was just hooked on crack or something, but truancy?!? He should go to prison and she should be shopped out to the foster mills.

AbeHikes
03-22-2005, 12:10
Oh my God! She's a truant! Say it isn't so. I wasn't too concerned when I thought she was just hooked on crack or something, but truancy?!? He should go to prison and she should be shopped out to the foster mills.
Nah, the crack is no big deal. I think there actually dispensing it in schools now.

Bad joke.

Panzer1
03-22-2005, 13:37
JAWS wrote: "Also, the authorities spoke with MM & MD and indicated that they were satisfied (at the present) with their story."

Was this remark in reference to the stolen dogs that were in their posession?
Or was it in reference to the circumstances surrounding this girl out of school since November?

Panzer

Baldy
03-22-2005, 17:22
I do not think it is possible for MM to "home school" a 13 year old on the trail.
Just my opinion. This girl is not attending school.

Panzer

Maybe they just believe in a different kind of education. Maybe Mountain Man would rather teach Mountain Dew in the School of Hard Knocks, with a couple of lessons in LIFE.

plodder
03-22-2005, 18:53
Somebody try and take a picture of them. As per the previous posts, if they freak, shrug it off, and later 911. Forest Service-hmmm.

Panzer1
03-22-2005, 19:08
Maybe they just believe in a different kind of education. Maybe Mountain Man would rather teach Mountain Dew in the School of Hard Knocks, with a couple of lessons in LIFE.
Then they are breaking the law.

Most state constitutions guarantee that each child have access to an free and thorough education. At least we do in Pennsylvania. You are reuired to attend school up to age 16, at least I think it is 16.

Panzer

Panzer1
03-22-2005, 19:22
And what about proper nutritional requirements for a 13 year old girl?
I bet she is not eating right.

And the girl spent the whole winter on the trail, since November? What is that about?

Where are her play friends? Something is very wrong here. I can smell it.

Panzer

imabubba
03-23-2005, 06:29
As a child, the first song I remember learning in church went something like this..

Jesus loves the little children.. all the children of the world..
red and yellow, black and white...they are precious in my site...
Jesus loves the little children of the world.

Personaly, I would get involved. It's too easy to say "It's none of my business"
"HYOH"

Please notify the Child Protective Service in the area.

Panzer1
03-23-2005, 11:23
I think we need to find out exactly where she is before we notify the authorities (USFS excluded as an authority). At least what state she is in and where/when they might find her.

Panzer

Smile
03-23-2005, 12:21
It's not that hard to get a photo of anyone these days...with cellular phones etc. Certainly someone can be creative. If it were my child/family member, I'd want someone to step up to the plate as well.

Who knows, but it's obvious that they are telling everyone that they've been on the trail since November.......I just wonder if she'not living in fear, fear of him if she 'tells' someone different than his story, etc. etc......do they look like family? Are we sure that she is not a MP?

Get a photo....we can get photos of the most elusive creatures on the trail and the rarest salamander, and the latest whacko who is stealing from packs and warn each other........someone can get a photo of these two.

Alligator
03-23-2005, 14:14
There are some red flags here, it is not unreasonable to consider reporting them to whatever child protective protective agency exists in that area. I'll get an opinion from someone in the know.

Otherwise, very illuminating about some of the folks we may meet on the trail...

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 01:26
Just curious, is anyone here going off of any information other than what they've read on the internet?

I remember people were saying all kinds of similar trash in '01 about the "family from the north", or "family of seven". I met them on the trail. The kids were incredible -smart, happy, healthy- and far more mentally grounded than the average kid in a public school.

Or are you just getting your "gut instincts" from an internet forum using 2nd and third hand information. WOW - some of you must be really in tune with things.

Panzer1
03-24-2005, 01:38
Or are you just getting your "gut instincts" from an internet forum using 2nd and third hand information. WOW - some of you must be really in tune with things.
I am going off the trail journal posted by JAWS at this link: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=88263
and the posting by "Mudgrip" in this thread (Posting #3). They have both come in contact with the child. That would be considered "first hand" information.

Panzer

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 02:13
I am going off the trail journal posted by JAWS at this link: http://www.trailjournals.com/entry.cfm?id=88263
and the posting by "Mudgrip" in this thread (Posting #3). They have both come in contact with the child. That would be considered "first hand" information.

Panzer
Actually that's "second-hand" information from the internet, from two people you probably don't even know.

Does that warrant an internet slander session?

steve hiker
03-24-2005, 03:48
I was tempted not to post again in this sick thread, but since it’s surfaced again, I’ll interject one more time. I spent four nights in shelters with MM and his daughter last month, including a day in which we waited out a snowstorm. We talked quite a bit and I got to see them close up. They told me quite a bit about themselves and their past, some things on a personal level that I won’t spray all over the internet.

MM and MD are good people, and MD is bright and well adjusted. They may appear at first glance to be somewhat eccentric, but so do most others on the AT. Actually, most AT hikers are dirty vagrants. Those in this thread who don’t "approve" of them have never met them, and are going solely on internet rumor-mongering. Except for "Mudgrip" who just now registered on Whiteblaze, apparently just to start this crap.

It’s easy to start a witch hunt on the internet, especially about someone you’ve never met and will never have to deal with. There are a few "experts" on line here, removed by many states, who are spouting all kinds of nasty rumors about them. Like, MD may be living "in fear" of her dad. What a joke. And, MD may not be getting enough to eat ….. Well I can tell you, the hamburgers and all the fresh food that MM carried for them made my mouth water more than once. That’s why MM’s pack is so heavy. Their food put mine to shame.

About JAWS journal entry. I was with MM and MD at the time JAWS showed up, and was with JAWS during the two nights that we all shared shelters. Thus, I saw everything he did. His entry is sensationalistic, and paints them as psychos or criminals. Mostly because MM is a little excitable and there was a rumor in Erwin that he stole those two beagles. However, there’s no evidence MM stole the beagles. More likely, those dogs were running around loose at a road crossing and they "adopted" them, rightly or wrongly. Nor does it matter, since the authorities recovered the beagles for their owner and didn’t see fit to press any charges. The same authorities checked out MM and MD’s identities and stories, and they came clean.

This thread makes me realize what a dangerous thing the internet is. It’s easy for people from anywhere in the world, who don’t know a damned thing about what they’re talking about, to start a witch hunt and harass people without consequence. A couple weeks ago someone caught up in the heat of a gun debate here dug up JLB's driver's license information and posted it. Those calling for MM and MD's heads are cut from the same cloth.

Jack Lincoln
03-24-2005, 05:01
Leave them alone. It isn't any of your business. Want some ******* jacking you up? If you do, soon as I see you I will "notify the authorities."

Leave them alone. Apparently they are doing quite well by themselves!

Jack Lincoln

MedicineMan
03-24-2005, 05:13
camo pants I've hiked in for the last 4 years-spring winter summer and fall- are from Wallmart, so is the black fleecy and the starter shirt underneath...just wish the Chinese made smartwool socks :)

Hyway
03-24-2005, 09:23
my first backpacking trip with my daughters I carried an odd assortment of non-standard, non-titanium, non-polypro, non-goretex gear in my old Navy seabag (not much more than a potato sack with shoulder straps) . Luckily for me and my family, some of you folks didn't show up and save us.

bulldog49
03-24-2005, 10:05
I once had a stray dog follow me all day on the trail. I got looks from a few hikers passing by like "why isn't that dog on a leash". I told some of them it wasn't my dog, it just started following me. I find it quite plasusible he did not steal the dog, in fact why would someone on a 2000 mile trek want to steal a dog?

As for home schooling, I have a nephew being home schooled because he was having difficulty adjusting to the school environment. His mother has a degree in education, and they take trips away from home throughout the year. I really don't see anything, based upon what I've read, that should be a cause of concern.

ToeJam
03-24-2005, 10:13
...It’s easy to start a witch hunt on the internet, especially about someone you’ve never met and will never have to deal with. There are a few "experts" on line here, removed by many states, who are spouting all kinds of nasty rumors about them...

...This thread makes me realize what a dangerous thing the internet is. It’s easy for people from anywhere in the world, who don’t know a damned thing about what they’re talking about, to start a witch hunt and harass people without consequence. A couple weeks ago someone caught up in the heat of a gun debate here dug up JLB's driver's license information and posted it. Those calling for MM and MD's heads are cut from the same cloth.

I have to agree - well said, Steve. I feel badly for them now, as to how they will likely be treated by alot of ppl from here on out...

Hyway
03-24-2005, 10:14
I still get a chuckle when I think about the video 2000 miles to Maine and the dog that didn't like his pack. That thruhiker didn't steal a dog but the dog sure tried to steal him.

ToeJam
03-24-2005, 10:17
LOL hyway, that was one of the funniest parts of that DVD! The look on that guy's face, he said something to the effect of "and I almost had him!!" when talking about sparring with the dog... and then to come back across that dog and his real owner later on, hehe!

hawkeye
03-24-2005, 10:19
Maybe the Supreme Court should look at this. Better yet, let me run this by Bush.

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 10:26
I was tempted not to post again in this sick thread, but since it’s surfaced again, I’ll interject one more time. I spent four nights in shelters with MM and his daughter last month, including a day in which we waited out a snowstorm. We talked quite a bit and I got to see them close up. They told me quite a bit about themselves and their past, some things on a personal level that I won’t spray all over the internet.

MM and MD are good people, and MD is bright and well adjusted. They may appear at first glance to be somewhat eccentric, but so do most others on the AT. Actually, most AT hikers are dirty vagrants. Those in this thread who don’t "approve" of them have never met them, and are going solely on internet rumor-mongering. Except for "Mudgrip" who just now registered on Whiteblaze, apparently just to start this crap.

It’s easy to start a witch hunt on the internet, especially about someone you’ve never met and will never have to deal with. There are a few "experts" on line here, removed by many states, who are spouting all kinds of nasty rumors about them. Like, MD may be living "in fear" of her dad. What a joke. And, MD may not be getting enough to eat ….. Well I can tell you, the hamburgers and all the fresh food that MM carried for them made my mouth water more than once. That’s why MM’s pack is so heavy. Their food put mine to shame.

About JAWS journal entry. I was with MM and MD at the time JAWS showed up, and was with JAWS during the two nights that we all shared shelters. Thus, I saw everything he did. His entry is sensationalistic, and paints them as psychos or criminals. Mostly because MM is a little excitable and there was a rumor in Erwin that he stole those two beagles. However, there’s no evidence MM stole the beagles. More likely, those dogs were running around loose at a road crossing and they "adopted" them, rightly or wrongly. Nor does it matter, since the authorities recovered the beagles for their owner and didn’t see fit to press any charges. The same authorities checked out MM and MD’s identities and stories, and they came clean.

This thread makes me realize what a dangerous thing the internet is. It’s easy for people from anywhere in the world, who don’t know a damned thing about what they’re talking about, to start a witch hunt and harass people without consequence. A couple weeks ago someone caught up in the heat of a gun debate here dug up JLB's driver's license information and posted it. Those calling for MM and MD's heads are cut from the same cloth.
Panzer1, THAT is called "first-hand" information.

Alligator
03-24-2005, 10:28
Nobody's calling for their heads there Jumble Jowls. But extra caution needs to be in effect when dealing with children. I ran the situation past my wife, who is a counselor, has lots of experience as a social worker, and works with kids on a regular basis. I ran this scenario past her.

1. The girl is 13.
2. They have spent the winter on the trail with questionable gear.
3. The father, as recounted by Jaws, claims to have been assaulted by the Federal Police with rubber bullets and that these police burned his daughters hand.
4. It is claimed that the girl is homeschooled.

Her response was that it sounded borderline. The gear may be sufficient, the girl may have a special learning plan for the AT, and since they checked out with the rangers, who (probably) have a mandate to report child neglect, there is likely no issue for child services.

Sorry folks, but the world isn't a rosy place. There are all kinds of nasty, ****ty, horrible things that happen to children right under people's noses, quite frequently by their primary caregivers. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about the welfare of a child. How many cases do we hear about where a child could have been helped if someone had simply taken an interest, rather than dismissing the situation as "nothing wrong with that"?

Regarding this instance, I will go with the opinion of the person I trust, as she's the expert.

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 10:47
There is absolutely nothing wrong with being concerned about the welfare of a child. How many cases do we hear about where a child could have been helped if someone had simply taken an interest, rather than dismissing the situation as "nothing wrong with that"?

Regarding this instance, I will go with the opinion of the person I trust, as she's the expert.
But there IS something wrong with a bunch of gossiping hags using biased ,incomplete, and reportedly "sensationalized" information to slander and make accusations on the internet.

How would the hags on this site like their personal lives drug into a forum so people can accuse them of things they have no clue about?

Being neglectful of a real problem is one thing, but there is NO
WAY to make that call here. If someone really thought there was something wrong, they should call the authorities quietly instead of spinning lies and speculations about this father and daughter.

I wish my dad had taken me on the AT at age 13. I learned more about life on my thru-hike than my entire schooling, including college. It's not a factual knowledge. It's a much higher-order sensual knowledge that few people understand, because they were too busy taking tests and learning about what year the light bulb was invented.

I respect parents that break out of the mold to provide their children with such an experience.

I loath gossiping hags who slander others on the internet.

Hyway
03-24-2005, 10:47
Did you also tell her that someone posting to this thread early on reported that they seem to be doing fine? My wife is a child psychologist and deals first hand with the kids you are talking about, so I agree with you that the world isn't always a pretty place. But then again, sometimes it is. That is until people who have absolutely nothing to do with the situation, have not seen it, spoken to the people or even spoken to the people who have spoken to them start organizing a witch hunt. It is the decent thing to do to watch out for our children. that is honorable. But going off halfcocked can cause people life long trauma. An accusation of child abuse or molestation, even when proven to be false, will never go away in some peoples minds.

And can I ask a question about gear? What is it with all the questions about the adequacy of peoples gear. If they had been hiking all thru the winter with the gear they have and survived till mid march, don't you think their gear should be considered adequate? Earl Shaffer thruhiked with not much more than a ruck sack and a street map. Heaven knows how we ever tamed the western frontier without goretex.

Panzer1
03-24-2005, 12:28
4. It is claimed that the girl is homeschooled.

My own opinion on that is that it does not seem possible for MM to home school MD on the trail. Can anyone refute that?? His hand writting is described by Jaws as " both rambling and almost illegible". Does that sound like a person who can "home school" a child? Keep in mind that there are certain legal requirements that must be met in order to home school a child. If so, then this child has not been to school since November. See post # 44 in this thread from "Smile". She claims that she has home schooled children for 15 years and states some of the requirements that must be met. Can you say that MM is meeting these requirements? Now, I was under the impression that children are required by law to attend school until a certain age. Is that true?? If so then it seems like the law is being broken. Hence the so called "witch hunt". If the questions surrounding "Home schooling" can be satisified, then I think this thread might die down.

Panzer

Alligator
03-24-2005, 12:47
But there IS something wrong with a bunch of gossiping hags using biased ,incomplete, and reportedly "sensationalized" information to slander and make accusations on the internet.

How would the hags on this site like their personal lives drug into a forum so people can accuse them of things they have no clue about?

Being neglectful of a real problem is one thing, but there is NO
WAY to make that call here. If someone really thought there was something wrong, they should call the authorities quietly instead of spinning lies and speculations about this father and daughter.

I respect parents that break out of the mold to provide their children with such an experience.

I loath gossiping hags who slander others on the internet.
I don't know Wookie, but it seems to me that you are basing your conclusions on the same information that everyone else is other than the two people in this thread who have actually met the family. Seems like a difference of opinion. A bunch of folks were concerned about the welfare of a child and you call them "hags"?

Now, Mudgrip felt that this was potentially a serious matter and asked for opinions/information in this thread. Perhaps he/she was hoping for more information in order to make a decision, given this is a forum where others may have encountered the family. It is a serious decision to make a report to child services, one that should not be taken lightly.

I'm not going to argue for anybody else, but what I said was that there were some red flags here. That means caution, there could be a problem here. I certainly did not slander them, nor did I say get out the torches. I said I'd run it by an expert. I didn't mention the mice, as that certainly did sound sensationalistic, but Hyway I did say that while the girl was reported small, it was entirely realistic that she was normally small. This came up as we were discussing it. I didn't even mention the dogs to her because that could simply have been a case of the dogs following them or whatever.

Hyway, regarding the gear question. I too have various pieces of no name gear that are more than adequate for winter travel. My main concern there was their tent as described by Jaws. I won't bring my tarp out in winter, nor would I have a less than adequate 3-4 season tent at least. That's not elitism, just playing it safe

As far as taking children out on the trail, I've been considering taking my son out since he's been old enough to hold up his head in the carrier. I too think it's great to do this. Outside of winter, I wouldn't have given this a second thought. But thruhiking in winter has a different set of requirements and the suggestion that their gear was not adequate raised a red flag.

But as I said, having discussed this with an experienced child advocate, there does not appear to be grounds for a report to social services.

bulldog49
03-24-2005, 13:00
My own opinion on that is that it does not seem possible for MM to home school MD on the trail. Can anyone refute that?? His hand writting is described by Jaws as " both rambling and almost illegible". Does that sound like a person who can "home school" a child?
Panzer


Ever try to read a doctor's handwriting? How do they ever make it through med school?

As for "legality", I hardly think it's a major deal even if he technically is in violation of home schooling rules. The work could easily be made up when tehy finish teh trip.

Panzer1
03-24-2005, 13:38
As for "legality", I hardly think it's a major deal even if he technically is in violation of home schooling rules. The work could easily be made up when tehy finish teh trip.
Then are you saying he is in viloation??

Panzer

JP
03-24-2005, 13:55
Did he have a sword ?

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 14:20
I don't know Wookie, but it seems to me that you are basing your conclusions on the same information that everyone else is other than the two people in this thread who have actually met the family. Seems like a difference of opinion. A bunch of folks were concerned about the welfare of a child and you call them "hags"?


The only conclusion I have made is that there is not enough credible information to make a conclusion, to slander anyone, or make false accusations.

Steve hiker has been posting on this site regularly for a long time, and has a much higher credibility than Mudgrip, who just joined to start this thread.

Yes, I called those folks hags, because that's what they are. Gossiping hags who have no clue what they're talking about or who they're judging for all to see.

Tha Wookie
03-24-2005, 14:36
It reminds me of a story I heard in church as a boy about gossip:

A woman who belonged to a church saw her pastor on several occasions with an attractive woman other than his wife. The first woman became suspicous, and began asking her friends if he was having an affair. In a matter of weeks, the entire church suspected he was having an affair. Many people left the church, never to return.

Finally, the word made it back to the pastor, who could not believe his ears. The other woman had been a new member who was counseling with the pastor about joining the church and becoming a Christian. The pastor openly discussed it with his congregation, and explained the situation. The gossip woman approached him after the service to apologize, but was suprised when the pastor cut her off and asked her to meet him at a nearby highway overpass after church.

At the overpass where they later met, the pastor had with him a down pillow, which he cut open and dumped the thousands of feathers out over the bridge, which scattered in every direction. The woman told him he didn't understand what this meant. He said "I forgive you, but for the damage to undone, you would have to track down and collect every feather just as you would have to find everyone who learned this gossip."

steve hiker
03-24-2005, 15:08
. But going off halfcocked can cause people life long trauma. An accusation of child abuse or molestation, even when proven to be false, will never go away in some peoples minds.
Good point. I hate to think of how they felt after JAWS called the law on them near Erwin. They came through it okay, but as anyone knows who has ever been questioned by law enforement, even for a traffic violation, it leaves you with a very bad feeling. For the girl, it must have been traumatic to see her father being sought out and questioned like a possible criminal.

And for this to happen on a place like the AT, which is supposed to be a place of beauty and peace, this is especially sad. It's discouraging that some people feel compelled to spread their mixture of misunderstanding and paranoid need to control others into every corner of the earth.

squirrel bait
03-24-2005, 15:20
What the ******? I simply believe two things, it is very admirable to watchout for children, alittle closer to home is where to start and that sticking your nose into situations of no concern to you while you sit in your house and shout out opinons is just stupid. Get off your kiester and go see what the problem is/isn't. And please (no names) do not personal message me anymore to continue this conversation outside the forums.

bulldog49
03-24-2005, 17:52
Then are you saying he is in viloation??

Panzer

I have no idea if he is in violation, none us do. I'm saying "IF" he is in violation, so what? If that's all he's guilty of, and I have no idea if he is, I don't find it significant enough for anyone to get their panties in a bunch.

ridgewalker777
06-11-2005, 15:07
They're still plugging along--"Mountain man and Mountain dew". I was checking to see if Whiteblaze had any current concerns about these folks. When I was finishing PA this week, the hikers were still talking, the Rangers and Police were staking out trail/road juctions, the cop even passed along what the violation might be, "incest". Now that's inflamitory without strong proof. The cops can only act when conduct rises to the level of threat, coercion, or repeated intimidation, such as with Ward Leonard. Do Swasticas in the shelter journals rise to that level? In Germany yes, in a heartbeat, but doubt so in America. If they apprehend Mountain man without due process, a competant lawyer could win a sizable judgment against law enforcement. Truancy is probably a real issue, but the "unschooling" movement where kids are taught how to produce their own food, clothing, shelter and fuel--as a priority over techno-savvy learning is substantial in the US.

TOW
06-11-2005, 18:15
wow, what a bunch of horsecrappy this turned out to be, i hope they make it all the way to kathadin without any problems, those two are going to have a lifelong lesson on others shoving their noses too far in the ole poop hole. when is enough crap on a subject like this enough crap?

Footsloogger keep me posted and by the way tell Mike and Pat at Moosehead Outfitters the wanderer has not forgotten his promise, things are just moving a bit slowly here in my neck of the woods, too much rain and i'm barely getting by right now..........lifelong story.........

Heater
06-11-2005, 19:24
wow, what a bunch of horsecrappy this turned out to be, i hope they make it all the way to kathadin without any problems, those two are going to have a lifelong lesson on others shoving their noses too far in the ole poop hole. when is enough crap on a subject like this enough crap?

Horsecrapppy, poophole, crap...

I am surprised at you TOW. That such a highly religious indivudual would use such language in a public forum. :confused:

Between this and your lustful thoughts toward the married Hillary Clinton and others, I see a long talk in the confessional in your future. :p

HikerHobo
06-11-2005, 20:37
I WAS going to take my daughter hiking with me,
but now I think it may be TOO RISKY!




:mad:

TOW
06-11-2005, 21:05
Horsecrapppy, poophole, crap...

I am surprised at you TOW. That such a highly religious indivudual would use such language in a public forum. :confused:

Between this and your lustful thoughts toward the married Hillary Clinton and others, I see a long talk in the confessional in your future. :p
I was The Only Wanderer before I accepted Christ and I am still The Only Wanderer. I am a Christian, not a religious zealot, never will be. So therefore I will not worry about whether you or the world thinks I ought to act a certain way or not. I am me and am very comfortable in my own skin. How about you?

Hillary? You betcha!

Bolivershagnasty
06-11-2005, 23:37
Well then,,this is a story close to my heart! "I" Have full custody of my daughter and have had since she was 5 and had her since she was 3. We USED to go up to Gatlinburg for Christmas every year and stayed in upscale style because that was kind of our vacation. But that didn't even stop the parinoid asses that can't understand that a "man" can have a daughter. I actually had the police come into a resturant and pull me out (with a 30.00 lobster and steak in front of me AND her, right in front of my daughter. They took me outside where they forced me to throw down a 20.00 cigar on the ground and then proceeded to interigate me as to "why" I was with a little girl. All just because some ass working in the resturant "didn't think it looked right". It took most of the evening "explaining" to the officer and then took a suporvisor before I got to re join my daughter. Now I'm not blaming the cop because I've been one most of my adult life. But the whole thing stunk and ruined "our" Christmas. Not to mention 75.00 worth of food but I was "introduced" to paranoiya. (?) Now I keep a court order in my pocket like a asma inhailer in case some nosey ass doesn't have it in their mind that a man "just may" love his daughter enough to have one. You know what? If I had to run out and live on the AT to keep her I WOULD! And I just may have to one day. If you have reason to think she is being abused then ok do what you have to do but it sounds like the authorites have checked them out and "cleared" them so why in the f are we talking about this? Let me give you some advice if you see them. I wouldnt bring it up because I know what I'd to you if you brought it up to me on the trail. You would be # 10.

TOW
06-12-2005, 01:52
You know what? If I had to run out and live on the AT to keep her I WOULD! And I just may have to one day. I'll hike with ya guys if ya do, that'll really give them something to think about. There is nothing more wholesome than a true love between a father and his daughter, nor a mother and her son..............

Lion King
06-12-2005, 02:28
Are you kidding me?

Seriously...

i've hiked a lot of miles and met A lot of Dads with Sons, or daughters, all ages, Moms with five kids, from 8 and up..Any one remember "Suches" from 1998???? THE GREATEST people in the world...they, as a family hiked the trail, I remember a dad and his very young son a few years ago (2001 I think)who got hassled time and time again by cops, rangers and the like because of this very crap...People just rambling about things they dont know **** about, yet, assuming a higher ground and somehow allowing themselves to be the judge and righteous hand of God. Knock it off, as always with these kinds of people, you cause more harm then good.

If there was one and I MEAN EVEN A SINGLE incident of the girl being in obvious harm, then cause a friggin man hunt. Beat the guy senseless, have him arrested, but what if that girl loves her Dad more then anything.
Maybe his handwritting sucks, doesnt mean he isnt a very intelligent and caring father.

Those of you who live in different worlds then those two may not have a single idea of what they as a family have gone through, financially and otherwise. Do any of you know them? Have any of you talked with them...(not those who say they are good people, but all of those who point out the 'madness' and the crazyness of not being homeschooled)...What business is it of yours? Do you go out in your own communtiy and help those who need it?
Do you check your neighbors and make sure their children are taken care of?
Probally not, but you hear of this and all of a sudden you show interest, which obviously has caused much more harm to those people, and which could eventually ruin not only their hike, but their relationship as Dad and Daughter.

You people and your Bush taught Worldfearing propaganda beliefs, get out of your houses turn off the ****in computer and TV and get hiking...My God...I cant believe this.

and believe me, I care about the well being of Children, more then you know, but from the things stated here, it looks like they are having a good time, are good to each other, and that there isnt a problem. I wish to God my Mom or dad would have gotten me out on the trail when I was that age.

Lone Wolf
06-12-2005, 08:11
Bush is responisible for Miss Janet's concerns about this child? ***n ridiculous. Obviously you haven't met them King. Call Janet.

cmr_hiker
06-12-2005, 09:07
did it ever occur to anyone that if MD was in considerable harm that she would walk away in the middle of the night? its not like she would carry her pack. just a bit of a night hike. its amazing how peoples fears become inflammed because they are out in the woods. if MD has all the miles it sounds like, then she could surely get away from MM. what does MM tie bells to her before she goes to sleep? or does he lash her to a tree?

as to the schooloing issue.
you can hike the AT and get college credit so chill out. i bet getting high school credit isnt too difficult.

omg a hiker! must be a criminal!

Tha Wookie
06-12-2005, 09:55
Beware the gossipers and hags... they will talk about you too.

Lion King
06-12-2005, 11:30
Bush is responisible for Miss Janet's concerns about this child? ***n ridiculous. Obviously you haven't met them King. Call Janet.
as I said in the above post Wolf:

"If there was one and I MEAN EVEN A SINGLE incident of the girl being in obvious harm, then cause a friggin man hunt. Beat the guy senseless, have him arrested,"

I was trying to point out that gossip, such as this if it isnt founded, can cause a lot of problems as it did for other Hikers and kids before.

I just dont like Bush(He isnt responsible, the Natioanl paranoia is), you do like Bush, and that is what America is about. being free to live and think as you choose. Sorry to offend your Political side my brother.

and again...if any harm is coming to that kid, it should be stopped. But not if it is 'assumed' as first thought, or stated.

digger51
06-12-2005, 15:54
Ive been watching this thread for a while and wondering when some idiot would blame it on the president. It took four pages but it happened. Koolaide anyone?

Stoker53
06-12-2005, 17:37
Ive been watching this thread for a while and wondering when some idiot would blame it on the president. It took four pages but it happened. Koolaide anyone?

LMAO.....

It's always the President's fault in the end. After all, he heads the govt and the govt is responsible for all our well being and happiness.

The buck gotta stop somewhere....

hawkeye
06-12-2005, 18:03
Howard Dean said it was Bush's fault. (the more I read on this site the better Wingfoot's looks.)

Lion King
06-12-2005, 18:25
Ive been watching this thread for a while and wondering when some idiot would blame it on the president. It took four pages but it happened. Koolaide anyone?
Learn to read moron. I said the paranoia is to blame, and everywhere I go, outside of Hiking trails, people are fearful, judgemental, and just out and out selfish and scared of their own shadows. All those things have gotten worse, in the last few years, so indirectly...I guess I could blame the corporate media for propaganda and the BS which comes from the higher sources, but that blame would go back to the public for not having the Nuts to stand up for what this Country was and should be again, and along with that turning off their TVs.

Stoker53
06-12-2005, 19:42
Learn to read moron. I said the paranoia is to blame, and everywhere I go, outside of Hiking trails, people are fearful, judgemental, and just out and out selfish and scared of their own shadows. All those things have gotten worse, in the last few years, so indirectly...I guess I could blame the corporate media for propaganda and the BS which comes from the higher sources, but that blame would go back to the public for not having the Nuts to stand up for what this Country was and should be again, and along with that turning off their TVs.
Well said, except for the "moron" reference, especially the turn off the TV part.

Mountain Dew
06-12-2005, 20:40
Looks like alot of people are speaking without first hand knowledge and one WB member that did has now shown himself to be the worst judge of character EVER, but that is of no surprise to most EVERYONE here on whiteblaze. The NPS Rangers do a great job with what resources they have despite both political parties not giving them enough money year after year. Not to bring politics further into this conversation!!! The Rangers that stopped Mtn. Man in Tenn. had probable cause to do so. Even after questioning him they felt that he was most likely trying to steal the dog he had in his possession, but lacked sufficient proof. OH...the dog had the owners number on his tags and Mtn. Man and Dew had crossed numerous roads with either houses or hitching access to a pay phone to contact the owners if he had wanted to return the poor dog. This incident wasn't the first time on the trail that the NPS Rangers had been notified about Mtn. Man either rather it was the first time WB members thought they were reported. The people that met Mtn. Man and knew that something didn't add up were correct in their thinking. Mtn. Man and Mtn. Dew got to Boiling Springs where they were sent on a bus to go see Dews mom whom she HADN'T seen in some 8 YEARS. Mtn. Man didn't have his first run in with law enforcement on the trail either people. I'll just say that he isn't a stranger to prison, Child Protective Services, the crazy house and about half a dozen other law enforcement organizations. The guys police record is big enough to start a small bonfire ...not to mention his current warrants.

We need to have more faith in the NPS officers and respect the amount of time they put into keeping the trails reputation a good one. So they persuaded a guy with a record longer than this thread to leave the trail. I applaud them. Anytime they take a known racist off the trail I'm gonna stand up and cheer. How do i know that ? I've read over 40 of his entries using every bed word you know about blacks, jews, and hispanics. I think someone here on WB that we all know and don't respect wouldn't mind if Mtn. Man was left on the trail to keep using "the Nazi symbol for hate" in each and every register entry. Sorry Jumble Jowls..oops I mean .....Steve Hiker, but the truth is the truth. No wonder you thought he was a fine individual and that we were just making all this up. Racists of a feather hike together !?!?!?

TOW
06-12-2005, 22:53
MD, you sure about the fact that guy got off the trail? How about posting a link with that info? i hate haters! hate is the worse disease there is.......

Bolivershagnasty
06-12-2005, 23:49
We'll now it seems someone "might" have some facts. I don't think I saw anything resembling he was talking about racist or weird crazy talk. BUT the point of all this isn't wheather or not he's a weirdo it's about alot of people just jumped on this case because "she should be in school" and it didn't "comform" to THEIR standards of "normal". No facts have really been talked about just rederick. I've been the VICTIM of this sh** before so I know only too well how people jump to conclusions. I failed to mention in my previous note that the diner I was acosted during was Christmas Eve diner. But back to MM md, you know what? There is alot of different people out there with kids that "could" be in better situations but thats the situation they happend to be in. I'm sure their doing the best they can. MM may be a freko but at least he's trying to take care of her as best he's knows how. Wheres mom been the last 8 yrs? Someone contacted her apparently if were to believe the above so they knew they were going to see her. If I had not seen my kid in 8 yrs and found out she was living on a trail I'd be there in less than a day not say "come and see me". Dad may be the best option here. There IS NOT any warrants on this guy or the rangers would have hooked this guy up because it sounds like they are looking for ANY reason too do so. If she was or even appeard to be in any danger or negglect the Rangers have a legal obligation to take hold and notify DSS until IT'S DETERMINED she's ok, which apparently they did prior to letting them go on. I bet you they were fifty calls to fifty different people trying to come up with something to hold them on. Guys it's not against the law to be weird or poor. there not out here scaming people just living and trying to survive. If you really care, give them 50 bucks, your bag and stove or buy them a meal and a motel for the night and let them know "we" the trail community care and ask what you can do to help. I'll swap my 200.00 bag for a Wal mart bag that I knew a young lady or anyone in need was living in day after day. It's called trail magic guys. (ever heard of it?) Taking care of "our own". He can be a weirdo all day long, their trail people as we are. We just have a nice little protected world we can go back too after were done "playing". Where would you go if the world failed you and or you had nothing or nowhere to go in this world? Hmmm. Maybe the trail? So how many of you wished Blister well on her PCT when she lost her, no quit her job and had nothing or nowhere better to go? MM md might HAVE nowhere to go! Keep this post imformed where they are, I've got a zero day paid for them if I can find out where they are.

Alligator
06-13-2005, 08:46
Thanks for the update Mountain Dew.

Jaybird
06-13-2005, 10:01
you mean there's more than one "MOUNTAIN DEW"???????


isnt that against the LAW?????????
hehehehehehe :D

mingo
06-13-2005, 11:44
i ran into mtn dew and mtn man at rockfish gap. i've also read some of his shelter log entries. he may be harmless but he's quite obviously insane. there may not be anything illegal here but there is a definite cause for concern -- child neglect if nothing else. live and let live only goes so far when a child is involved.

TOW
06-13-2005, 12:28
MD, you sure about the fact that guy got off the trail? How about posting a link with that info? i hate haters! hate is the worse disease there is.......i was wrong for saying i hate haters, what i should have said is and what i really mean is that i hate hate, it is very degrading, not to the one that is being hated so much, but the one who is doing the hating. those who practice hate are some of the most miserable people i have ever met.

let's take racial hate for instance and let's use the white and black issue. i'd say 99.1% of whites who hate blacks and 99.1% of blacks who hate whites have never had a person of the opposite race ever do anything to them tthat justifies ther emotions.

now let's take sexual hate, hate towards those who live a different lifestyle than those who do not. most of the ones who hates homosexuals are more than likely dealing with the issue themselves.......

and what about hate because a person is from another country? i got news for you, all of our ancestors came from another country.....

and last, you hate that person because he/she acts differently or they are not econimically correct. a bit more news for you, most of us here in the united states are one paycheck away from the streets and about half of those are about one hour away from it...........

those who hate only disrupt themselves in the long run because they will self distruct in the end and they know it.

hate is a choice.............

Stoker53
06-13-2005, 13:06
Is it OK to hate Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadam, Osama, Idi Amin , all pedophiles?

TOW
06-13-2005, 14:17
Is it OK to hate Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadam, Osama, Idi Amin , all pedophiles?look stoker you know what i'm talking about, still a choice............

Fannypack
06-13-2005, 14:45
I hiked Memorial Day w/e and saw a regisiter entry at David Lesser Shelter by Mountain Man that sure seemed to be of a racist nature. I spoke to several thru-hikers that said that MM register entries have been of a "racist" nature for most of the trail. These thru-hikers also said that they have heard (i guess this is gossip) that MM never seemed to express these racist views (that were in the registers) when he spoke to other hikers or when he (and his daughter) were in town... I never met the MM or MD but I must agree with Mountain Dew's (the guy) from Dallas, TX earlier post.... I will say that i do know persons that say and write "words" just to make others mad even when they don't believe the "words" that they are saying or writing. This may apply to MM just as it definitely applies to some of us on this website.... (member.php?u=991)

A-Train
06-13-2005, 15:24
Dew's got the right info, the rest of you are just making stuff up. Just talked to an ATC employee

Nightwalker
06-13-2005, 16:21
We need to have more faith in the NPS officers and respect the amount of time they put into keeping the trails reputation a good one. So they persuaded a guy with a record longer than this thread to leave the trail. I applaud them. Anytime they take a known racist off the trail I'm gonna stand up and cheer. How do i know that ? I've read over 40 of his entries using every bed word you know about blacks, jews, and hispanics. I think someone here on WB that we all know and don't respect wouldn't mind if Mtn. Man was left on the trail to keep using "the Nazi symbol for hate" in each and every register entry. Sorry Jumble Jowls..oops I mean .....Steve Hiker, but the truth is the truth. No wonder you thought he was a fine individual and that we were just making all this up. Racists of a feather hike together !?!?!?
How many logins is he up to now? 10-12 was the last good guess that I heard.

Dew, I hope to see you soon! You and Jack still hiking together?

My foot issue turned out to be more serious than I'd thought, but it'll heal.

Seeya down the trail!

Nightwalker
06-13-2005, 17:05
We'll now it seems someone "might" have some facts. I don't think I saw anything resembling he was talking about racist or weird crazy talk. BUT the point of all this isn't wheather or not he's a weirdo it's about alot of people just jumped on this case because "she should be in school" and it didn't "comform" to THEIR standards of "normal".
And before anyone wants to brand Boliver as a wack, I've met and spent a little time with him and his daughter. She is bright and well-mannered. She behaves without having to be told to. He is, quite apparently, doing an excellent job of raising her.

More fathers should be given the chance to raise their children.

If this isn't topicacious to the current thread, oh well. It's just my .0002 cents worth.

Bolivershagnasty
06-13-2005, 18:34
Thanks nightwalker, I think that pizza we had the other night was the best I've ever had. My point in all this isn't that MM isn't a weirdo or it may not be in md best intrest to be in another inviorment. It's just that EVERYONE seems to have an opinon of how to do a better job than he is. Ok he's a weirdo, how many of you that met them did anything other and mock at him. He's a freako maybe, but he isn't pimpin her off on the trail or anything. Their just doing what they can. Give him a break and thank God he's trying to do what he knows how too. He did not abandon her at some street corner so at least he has some aforethought inteligence about her welfare. Hey nightwalker, was I about to be branded "a wack?" LOL...(0)^(0)

Scribe
06-13-2005, 22:12
I have met JAWS, spent a few nights in shelters and one night at Neels Gap with him - and found him to be a reasonable and intelligent person. He did report MM and MD to "the authorities" and they did find missing property (beagles) in their possession, but, after questioning, found no reason to charge them with anything.

It is NOT a federal crime not to place a child in school. This is a state issue, and before MM could be found to be in violation of that, the "authorities" from the state of residence would need to investigate and bring charge. That's not likely to happen.

And as someone said during the Michael Jackson trial: "There's no law against being weird". To my mind, that's a good thing.

Nightwalker
06-13-2005, 22:29
Hey nightwalker, was I about to be branded "a wack?" LOL...(0)^(0)
Around here, you never know!

smokymtnsteve
06-13-2005, 22:50
Is it OK to hate Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadam, Osama, Idi Amin , all pedophiles?

all but Stalin,,,what was wrong with Josef?

Bolivershagnasty
06-13-2005, 23:20
NightWalker it doesn't mater at his point. I appriciate your backing me up. But the dogs are so after the fact. You want to see more hiking talk?...

TOW
06-13-2005, 23:48
where ole where are you tonight,
why did you leave me here all alone?
i searched the world over and
thought i found true love?
you made another "#%*+>$ and
you were gone...........

Stoker53
06-14-2005, 07:02
all but Stalin,,,what was wrong with Josef?

If you ingnore the hundreds of thousands he ordered killed outright or sent to Siberia ( in the gulags ) where they died of starvation/neglect during this purge between WWI and WWII......then there is nothing wrong w/ Josef. The leadership of the Soviet military was especially hard hit during the purge. Anyone he viewed as a threat to his power was eliminated.

His own people now view him as a tyrant.

Tim Rich
06-14-2005, 07:54
but Stalin,,,what was wrong with Josef?


If you ingnore the hundreds of thousands he ordered killed outright or sent to Siberia ( in the gulags ) where they died of starvation/neglect during this purge between WWI and WWII......then there is nothing wrong w/ Josef. The leadership of the Soviet military was especially hard hit during the purge. Anyone he viewed as a threat to his power was eliminated.

His own people now view him as a tyrant.

Stalin killed tens of millions. Any defense of him or his tactics, if it wasn't so tragic, would be a laughable pipe dream.

I'm surprised you didn't single out pol POT for your troll, SMS... :D

TOW
06-14-2005, 08:09
Is it OK to hate Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Sadam, Osama, Idi Amin , all pedophiles?just so you know, i don't care for this class of people at all.....

Stoker53
06-14-2005, 09:29
just so you know, i don't care for this class of people at all.....

Knew that.....my post was a "little" over the top to say the least......not ment to slam you. Just trying to express my opinion that hate is not always a bad thing. It's been around as long as humans have had emotions. There must be a reason for that.

TOW
06-14-2005, 16:54
Knew that.....my post was a "little" over the top to say the least......not ment to slam you. Just trying to express my opinion that hate is not always a bad thing. It's been around as long as humans have had emotions. There must be a reason for that.you know, that makes perfect sense. in fact i have been giving just what you said there alot of thought these last few days. i guess some of what i said was the fact that i went thru a certain amount of being hated and accused of things that i never did do because of some things i did do. and at one point i hated just about everybody that didn't see things the way i did. what you said there makes sense, some hate is pure safety related..........

prozac
06-14-2005, 17:36
Tyrant or not you got to like a guy who can come up with the following quotes.
"A single death is a tragedy, a million a statistic".
"The pope, how many divisions does he got?"
"Ideas are more powerful than guns. We would not let our enemies have guns, why should we let them have ideas".

My favorite quote is just as relevant today as back when Joe said it. Maybe more so. "The people who cast the votes don't decide an election, the people who count the votes do". May have been a homicidal despot but at least he had a sense of humor. By the way, we did name him Time Magazine Man of the Year twice.

TOW
06-14-2005, 23:39
. By the way, we did name him Time Magazine Man of the Year twice.who was it????????????? tell us all

dperry
06-14-2005, 23:57
By the way, we did name him Time Magazine Man of the Year twice.Do keep in mind that the criteria for winning Time's Man of the Year is that that person affected the news the most that year, and does not necessarily mean that Time or anyone else approves of that person or what he did.

Panzer1
01-31-2006, 00:08
It was revealed at the PA Ruck that Mountain Man was not a criminal but he is mentally ill and that Moutain Dew was never home schooled as claimed. She was out of school for 4 years.

Mountain Man has been taken back to New Hampshire and is been treated for his illness.

Panzer

wacocelt
01-31-2006, 04:40
Thanks for the update Panzer, I met MM and MD as well as JAWS and Steve last season and felt sick for quite awhile that nothing was done to help them sooner.

As an addendum, I applaud those of you who supported thier choices while under the assumption that they were just a healthy, somewhat eccentric family 'doing thier thing', but they weren't. I hiked with The Family from thenorth in 2,000 and had no misgivnings about them, MM however was in dire need of councelling and in absolutely no condition to be raising a child alone.