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View Full Version : why is katahdin dangerous after oct15?



djcoin
02-19-2012, 19:50
I have to know. Why is mt katahdin dangerous after oct15? Ive looked all over the internet and have yet to find a straight answer. What makes it so impossible to climb after a certain point in time?

swjohnsey
02-19-2012, 19:52
Weather....

djcoin
02-19-2012, 19:54
how bout some details?..there's weather everywhere

aaronthebugbuffet
02-19-2012, 20:00
It's a heavily regulated park. They don't want to have to be standing by to rescue and recover bodies of people that aren't experienced or level headed enough to know when not to go up. It's just easier to set a definitive date.

swjohnsey
02-19-2012, 20:02
The high and low on Katadin is expected to be 7 degrees today.

Spokes
02-19-2012, 20:04
It has more to do with established Park rules. Read for yourself:

http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/hikingThru.html

djcoin
02-19-2012, 20:06
I see..so is it straight up illegal to go up after oct15 or is it just heavily advised.

bamboo bob
02-19-2012, 20:07
cold and snow, lots and lots of snow. and very cold. Did I mention the snow. If you don't get there by 9/15 you are risking snow. They are being nice to say 10/15 but they will close the mountain any time it's snow or ice.

djcoin
02-19-2012, 20:09
thanks for the info bob :)

max patch
02-19-2012, 20:17
It may or may not be illegal after 10/15; depends on the conditions and a determination is made daily bu the park.

The problem with summiting after 10/15 is that the park is closed to camping. You have to both start the day and end the day outside the park. I don't have the mileage handy but it makes for a really loooong day. Longer than most hikers would want to attempt.

max patch
02-19-2012, 20:22
I got to K on 10/5. The mountain was closed 10/5 and 10/6 because of snow and ice. Most hikers waited it out in Millinocket. I stayed in the park with one other hiker. On 10/7 K was still closed but the rangers let us summit after they reviewed our equipment. They made us carry full packs. We had K to ourselves! We checked in with the rangers when we finished and they reopened K since we were able of make it up and back with no issues.

rotorbrent
02-19-2012, 20:22
Its not that dangerous to climb after Oct 15 its just harder to remove the bodies.

Over 50 have died. In Oct the Mt has lots of ice covered rocks,snow rain freezing rain,

ice mountain climbing requires different gear skills than day hiking. you could get stuck on the mountain for days and or put a lot of other lives at risk trying to get you off the mountain during severe conditions.

And they will charge you for your rescue cost.

djcoin
02-19-2012, 20:25
Thanks for the straight answers :)

Spokes
02-19-2012, 20:26
...... remember Park rules require hikers to carry only one piece of equipment- a flashlight (or headlamp).
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/hiking.php

And to think you were worried if it was illegal to go up the Greatest Mountain after October 15. lol

Lone Wolf
02-19-2012, 21:04
I have to know. Why is mt katahdin dangerous after oct15? Ive looked all over the internet and have yet to find a straight answer. What makes it so impossible to climb after a certain point in time?

nothin' dangerous. just overnight camping ain't allowed. but there's 10000s of acres of woods in there .....

Lyle
02-19-2012, 21:19
I assume, mostly, it's to add to the mystique and the rangers/administrators that made the rules had plans. Weather is so arbitrary, that rules like this also end up being purely arbitrary.

Derek81pci
02-19-2012, 21:24
Wind, ice, and snow. If you're in a sudden white-out, that's bad enough. Throw in rocks from the size of pebbles to boulders the size of houses... you fall and break something, chances are your family will have to identify you, or what's left.

doheir
02-19-2012, 22:11
A round trip up Katahdin from even the shortest point (say Roaring Brook to summit & return) takes nearly daylight hour in mid-September. A winter ascent would require a bivouac on the way up and probably on the return, likely in a very exposed spot. I've skied into Baxter yearly for the last 25 winters, and I've never once been tempted to think about a summit trip. The groups that get permission are usually well trained ice climbers and search & rescue units.

If you want a considerable challenge, I'd suggest a through trip, covering about 45 trail miles. The regulations have been relaxed considerably in the last 2 years, to the point that the park even allows solo travelers.

Good luck

Tinker
02-19-2012, 22:46
Bare, nearly vertical rock (vertical in a few places). It's hard enough to climb dry (I was lucky to summit on a dry day). Several people who I met while hiking had done it the previous day in light rain and said the rocks were very slippery.
Now imagine these rocks covered with glare ice, and you have the worst possible scenario.
Once the ice gets snowed on you can get some purchase in the snow.
I've hiked in the White Mts. in freezing rain and had to wait a couple of times until noon to cross icy ledges.

DavidNH
02-19-2012, 22:50
Is Mount Katahdin dangerous after October 15th? Hell yeah.. and many years after the first week of October. By mid October you can easily have full winter conditions. Think Mount Washington but far less accessible (no cog railway, no road). The mountain can be dangerous at anytime of year but after mid October it should be tackled only by those equipped for and trained for winter mountaineering.

The fact that you would even ask this question tells me that you aren't from the north east and really need to educate yourself about mountain weather in northern New England.

DavidNH
02-19-2012, 22:53
nothin' dangerous. just overnight camping ain't allowed. but there's 10000s of acres of woods in there .....

Wolf.. the OP isn't talking about hiking in the park.. he's talking about climbing Mount Katahdin after October 15. Yes some years it may be just fine but more often then not it will be winter up there by mid October.

Another Kevin
02-19-2012, 23:41
What's worse, it won't be all the way winter. I don't mind hiking on ice and snow if I'm using microspikes, crampons, ice axe, snowshoes. poles (according to the conditions). But there simply is no way to outfit yourself to handle a layer of ice that parts company with the rock when you step on it - which is what you get when the temperatures nip above freezing during the day, but not long enough for the rock to dry out. That's why they don't open K for winter climbing until later in the year. The warm spells this winter have forced me to cancel a trip or two in upstate NY because the ice wouldn't be sound where I was going.

MJW155
02-19-2012, 23:48
What's the cutoff point for climbing Katahdin w/o worrying about winter conditions? September 15th?

Jeff
02-20-2012, 08:50
I wanted to summit well before October 15th without lots of cold, miserable rain & snow. The end of a thruhike is time for a celebration...not a time to risk your life.

WingedMonkey
02-20-2012, 10:27
On my late finish of the '95 hike, the problem was being able to see the blazes. Not only the short visibility distance, but defining clumps of snow from blazes on rocks got more and more difficult. Then again I am one of the few that had the whole mountain to myself on the finish. That was kinda cool.

I'm sure the earlier posts about difficult of rescue is the prime concern of the park.

Spokes
02-20-2012, 10:45
I wanted to summit well before October 15th without lots of cold, miserable rain & snow. The end of a thruhike is time for a celebration...not a time to risk your life.


Well said Jeff!

4eyedbuzzard
02-20-2012, 12:05
What's the cutoff point for climbing Katahdin w/o worrying about winter conditions? September 15th?
Generally, late Sept. But, it's kind of like asking what the cutoff is for not possibly encountering hot and humid weather in southern FL. You always "worry" about (respect) changing weather up here above treeline. The greatest danger is starting out on what appears to be a good day, having the weather change, and continuing to hike on into deteriorating conditions. The last thing you ever want to do is to keep climbing into rain, fog, cold, wind . . .

BSP will close trails, effectively shutting down climbing Katahdin, any day they feel climbing conditions are too dangerous. Read the pages below and follow the links:
http://www.matc.org/KatahdinAlert.htm
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/hiking/hiking.php
http://www.baxterstateparkauthority.com/miscPages/weatherClass.html

Just be ready to go at 7:00 am with a day pack (food, water, wind, rain gear, hat, light, etc) when the "class day" is determined for that day. Wait for a better day if necessary.
I wanted to summit well before October 15th without lots of cold, miserable rain & snow. The end of a thruhike is time for a celebration...not a time to risk your life.

Tenderheart
02-20-2012, 16:09
Hiking up and down Katahdin is dangerous anytime, IMO.

Tenderheart
02-20-2012, 16:12
What's the cutoff point for climbing Katahdin w/o worrying about winter conditions? September 15th?


I summited on September 7 and it was cold and windy, but clear and sunny. You just never know. It could be terrible in July.

peakbagger
02-20-2012, 18:01
There usually is a significant weather shift in Northern New England right around the end of September. It varies some years but usually leaf season in the Northern NH western Me is just about when we will have overnight lows enough that ice forms and stays. Early to mid September is usually long stretches of nice sunny weather with a touch of cold overnights, but just about around the end of the month, it swtiches to over to 3 or 4 days cycles of rain/ drizzle/ cold with some sun/ rain. The bummer is usually the pattern shifts back in October and we usually get some nice stretches of weather. If you can hand around a week or so, there acn be some great days right around closing time but some years it just doesnt happen.

Of just as much significance is that the seasonal rangers that do most of the day to day contact with visitors finish up on or before October 15th so there are not enough folks to keep and eye on overnight campers.

Other issues is that once there are overnight frosts, the trail bed gets softer until a hard freeze. The other issue with ice and or snow is that given the boulder scrambling, its very hard not to get wet. Mix in getting wet, a stiff breeze and no cover for 1 to 2 hours and its great conditions for hypothermia.

hikerboy57
02-20-2012, 18:24
its a long day under great conditions, with the greatest total elevation in any single day of hiking the AT.. the less daylight, the more chancy, and Ks weather is almost as unpredictable as MtW, as it is completely exposed to the elements. nothing to block the north wind for a thousand miles.i really wouldnt want to be coming down the hunt trail with ice on it.

DrRichardCranium
02-20-2012, 22:10
There is an evil spirit named Pamola that lives on Katahdin. I don't no why they don't warn hikers about it in the guidebooks.

vamelungeon
02-21-2012, 08:32
Is Mount Katahdin dangerous after October 15th? Hell yeah.. and many years after the first week of October. By mid October you can easily have full winter conditions. Think Mount Washington but far less accessible (no cog railway, no road). The mountain can be dangerous at anytime of year but after mid October it should be tackled only by those equipped for and trained for winter mountaineering.

The fact that you would even ask this question tells me that you aren't from the north east and really need to educate yourself about mountain weather in northern New England.
Isn't that what he's doing by asking questions?

DavidNH
02-21-2012, 10:03
What's worse, it won't be all the way winter. I don't mind hiking on ice and snow if I'm using microspikes, crampons, ice axe, snowshoes. poles (according to the conditions). But there simply is no way to outfit yourself to handle a layer of ice that parts company with the rock when you step on it - which is what you get when the temperatures nip above freezing during the day, but not long enough for the rock to dry out. That's why they don't open K for winter climbing until later in the year. The warm spells this winter have forced me to cancel a trip or two in upstate NY because the ice wouldn't be sound where I was going. Kevin you make an excellent point here, one I hadn't thought of. I would thing it's easier to outfit one self for full winter conditions than marginal. Would crampons or even microspikes work when all you have is a 1/4 inch of glare ice on rock?

mudhead
02-21-2012, 10:14
There is an evil spirit named Pamola that lives on Katahdin. I don't no why they don't warn hikers about it in the guidebooks.

It's not nice to fool with malevolent spirits.

peakbagger
02-21-2012, 10:31
Hillsound microspikes are perfect for mixed rock/ice conditions. With a low snow year in the whites, many folks are using microspikes for climbing washington and other high summits. Standard crampons are usually overkill on icy rock and introduce their own hazards. Microspikes dont require much training or alteration in gait, crampons do.

As for full winter gear, it can be helpful but if it gets too windy (over 30 MPH) heading into the exposed wind is not very easy and every step has the potential of getting knocked off ones feet. In those conditions, the only option is to have enough gear to hunker down in whatever cover you can find. Many of the deaths on Mt Washington have occrurred within a mile or so of the summit, yet the individuals couldnt get there due to the wind. Katahdin has far less cover on the tablelands than Mt Washington. The only viable escape route from the Summit and the surrounding Tablelands is via the Saddle which still requires a mile of so minimum exposed traverse of the ridgeline and a 1 to 2 hour walk to Chimney Pond.

DLANOIE
02-21-2012, 10:33
I have climbed Washington in the winter once before. It was the easiest climb of Washington I had ever done. I have no desire to climb Katahdin during icy snow conditions. I know groups do it every winter, you wont see me up there. I cant imagine the Hunt trail with ice on it!!!!!!!!!! I bet it beautiful though.

bamboo bob
02-21-2012, 10:59
[QUOTE=WingedMonkey;1256200]On my late finish of the '95 hike, the problem was being able to see the blazes. Not only the short visibility distance, but defining clumps of snow from blazes on rocks got more and more difficult.
I think visibility is a big problem if there has been any snow. I've snowshoed on the AT in VT and even on trail I've done many times it was very slow going to find the white blazes. Just to get from Kelly Stand road to Story Spring we simply could not follow the blazes and wandered around and all over. Going up mt K would be heroic for sure.

volleypc
02-24-2012, 15:31
I finished on Oct 7th as well. I did not have the clear skies like many of the people finishing in early Sept, but the fall colors the last couple weeks of the trip made it worth it for me. I plan to hike again when I retire and hope to finish with the fall colors again or either finish and start hiking south until the colors are gone. It was pretty nasty on Oct 7th. We only spent a few minutes at the top.

WILLIAM HAYES
02-25-2012, 00:25
generally wind ice snow

weary
02-26-2012, 10:56
On my long walk north in 1993, I climbed Katahdin on October 16. On the way up the Hunt Trail (AT) I inched up one 300 foot section of glare ice, thinking to myself "I wonder how I'm going to get down." It was a cold cloudy day with several inches of snow on the rocks as I reached the summit cairn. Two teenagers showed up as I was planning to descend. They took my picture and we spent a couple of hours asking and answering questions. They scurried down ahead of me. I didn't get to Katahdin Stream until an hour after dark, worrying my wife who was waiting, but otherwise, like the trail it was all great fun.

I've been on the tableland of Katahdin a half dozen times in January and February over the years, but on the actual summit only once in winter. Other times high winds, whiteouts, storms or ice made retreat a wiser choice.

4eyedbuzzard
02-26-2012, 11:00
.I've been on the tableland of Katahdin a half dozen times in January and February over the years, but on the actual summit only once in winter. Other times high winds, whiteouts, storms or ice made retreat a wiser choice.
"There are old Mountaineers, there are bold mountaineers, but no bold and old mountaineers." - Ed Viesturs

hikerboy57
02-26-2012, 12:11
"getting to the summit is optional, getting back down is mandatory."- Ed Viesturs