Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION

[hikin_jim]

The titanium version of the JetBoil Sol might have a problem. A potentially very serious problem. A like it could blow up and you could die kind of problem. That kind of "serious."

Please note that my concerns pertain to the titanium version of the JetBoil Sol only.

Titanium JetBoil Sol -- CAUTION (http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/02/titanium-jetboil-caution.html)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Xj7yl6NdRF0/T00rhrWojQI/AAAAAAAAK-U/UyDv77U8-MA/s640/Jetboil_Sol_Ti_2.jpg

Please note that not all the facts are in and that this is a CAUTION only at this juncture. The potential consequences of a failure are serious enough that I think a caution is warranted even though all the facts are not in.

HJ

[RWheeler]

Just because the hot metal drops on the fuel canister doesn't mean it's going to cause it to explode. Stating that this is a death risk at this point (without all the facts in, as you admit) is highly irresponsible on your part.

Think about it. In order for the aluminum you claim to be so molten and dangerous get that hot, it needs to get heat from somewhere. That heat is already present. When you put it into something so light and thin, like the aluminum heat sink, it's going to dissipate it very efficiently. A very large factor in determining the flow of heat is the masses of what's in the reaction. A very low mass, high temp item will be quelled by a cooler larger mass item. At the worst, I'd expect the canister to get a little more excited and increase the fuel output for a few seconds. IF that.

Look into the thermodynamics of it before you start making outrageous claims like that, please.

[StealthHikerBoy]

I had a similar issue with this product. I bought a JetBoil Sol Ti last summer, and took it to my basement to test it out. On the very first test I smelled something burning (smelled like plastic) - and I turned it off. About a half inch piece of the flux ring on the bottom of the cup was glowing orange with a little flame, and fell off. This was not in cold weather, it was maybe 65 degrees in my basement. I think if I had left it unattended the entire flux ring would have caught fire.

I have since used this on quite a few hikes, and have never had another problem with it. But I am always watching it carefully.

[BobTheBuilder]

You gotta die from something, might as well be from cooking dinner.

[hikin_jim]

Just because the hot metal drops on the fuel canister doesn't mean it's going to cause it to explode. Stating that this is a death risk at this point (without all the facts in, as you admit) is highly irresponsible on your part.

Think about it. In order for the aluminum you claim to be so molten and dangerous get that hot, it needs to get heat from somewhere. That heat is already present. When you put it into something so light and thin, like the aluminum heat sink, it's going to dissipate it very efficiently. A very large factor in determining the flow of heat is the masses of what's in the reaction. A very low mass, high temp item will be quelled by a cooler larger mass item. At the worst, I'd expect the canister to get a little more excited and increase the fuel output for a few seconds. IF that.

Look into the thermodynamics of it before you start making outrageous claims like that, please.
That's good feedback, and I appreciate it. I think I will modify the blog post, BUT I also read the original post from the person who reported the problem. His stove was shooting flames up high into the air. Maybe I haven't described the mechanism correctly, but something happened that caused the stove to roar out of control.

Here's the original post:

I looked over at my jetboil and all I saw was this massive flame. The flames were probably three feet in the air. I ran over and dumped the last of my water on it (and thus went that night and the next morning w/o water) and when everything cooled down, there was evidences of some serious super heating. The little 'flux rings' ended up super heating and they were just going ballistic. The flux ring material got so hot that it started dripping down onto the ground (which did not go out when my threw my water on it, that stuff was crazy hot) and the drops of super heated metal were all over the canister - which scared me the most. A few of them actually melted/welded onto the canister of gas. The stupid orange thing was completely melted (I had to take a dremel to cut it off when I got back home - which is where I learned how easy it was to take them off). The bottom of the pot (not the flux, the bottom) as you can see in the photos above suffered major heat damage - and remember, titanium has a melting point of 3034(F).

If the temperatures got up to the point where titanium suffered heat damage, that's potentially very serious, and that kind of heat can cause a canister explosion even if the mechanism I described cannot.

Am I missing something?

HJ

[bamboo bob]

Was that the flux ring capacitator?:)

[hikin_jim]

Was that the flux ring capacitator?:) Apparently the flux ring didn't have a lot of capacity -- but it sure could stop your time. :)

HJ

[rocketsocks]

You gotta die from something, might as well be from cooking dinner.My wife's been trying to kill me for years.

[SmokeEater]

How long did this take before it melted? Sounds like human error.

[Wise Old Owl]

You gotta die from something, might as well be from cooking dinner.

After visiting several hospices over the holidays... I would like to die of something other than old age.

Hikin Jim do this instead.....call them.
Jetboil, Inc. 540 North Commercial St
Manchester, NH 03101
Tel: (888) 611-9905
Fax: (603) 518-1619

[email protected]
www.jetboil.com (http://www.jetboil.com/)

[hikin_jim]

How long did this take before it melted? Sounds like human error. Could be. We may never know. The individual who had the problem that resulted in 3 foot flames has stated that he feels that he's said enough.

If I had edit rights on the post that started this thread, I'd probably soften the language a bit based on the feedback I've gotten. I will reword my blog post.This verbiage was in my original post. I think it's appropriate, and I left it unchanged:


Please note that not all the facts are in and that this is a CAUTION only at this juncture. The potential consequences of a failure are serious enough that I think a “caution” is warranted even though all the facts are not in.HJ

[Wise Old Owl]

Hell Hikin Jim.... Some things cannot be edited all the time - I have sure found that out the hard way... thanks for bringing this to our attention.

[The Mighty Tiberious]

What brand of fuel did you use? MSR, JetBoil, Cheap stuff from Walmart, other brand.

I have a JetBoil for my Thru hike. Would like to know what brand not to buy.

[hikin_jim]

What brand of fuel did you use? MSR, JetBoil, Cheap stuff from Walmart, other brand.

I have a JetBoil for my Thru hike. Would like to know what brand not to buy.This wasn't my stove; I pulled this information from multiple posts on the internet. However, having said that, I don't think it had anything to do with the fuel.

HJ

[grayfox]

I posted this a while back:


"So far, I have been burned by hot metal, scalded by boiling macaroni when I tried to turn the heat down, and had my shirt dribbled on with hot coffee thru a lose lid.

You might think that I have given up--but no, not yet. Because, man, is this stove fast! It can boil water for tea befor I have time to unwrap the tea bag.

So here are my thoughts. The handle is not only worthless, but downright dangerous. The cozy material is too thin to be of much help in handeling a hot pot but does keep some heat in for a time to let food rehydrate. The lid is hard to use because there is no knob to lift it. It sticks when you just want to stir the pot and refuses to seal when you want to drink or pour from the pot--and its full of holes that let heat out and the odd bug in as well as let steam out into anything you try to use as an extra cozy. The pot attaches to the stove and often sticks so that it is hard to lift the pot from the stove witout picking up the whole thing together but precariously so. The stove can also be unwound from the canister as you try to separate the pot from its attachment points on the stove. If someone were to unwittingly unwind it enough to allow the canister to leak and the fuel became ignited.....

But did I say, the stove is fast.

I bent the rim of the stove out so that the pot will separate easier when I lift it. I am looking for a metal lid that will fit the pot and a pot lifter to use as a handle--this will negate some of the weight savings of Ti but I think it will be more usable and safer.

The stove is too hot to cook on and does not adjust to simmer without going out. The trick is to use the extra pot support to raise the pot enough to be cooler, it still won't simmer but at least it won't boil over as fast.

The stove has an auto ignition that worked reliablly--twice. It is best to use a lighter--add more carry weight to your total. The good news is that the cup that covers the bottom of the pot is pretty useless as a cup and too small for a bowl so you can save some grams by leaving it at home.

If you just want to boil water and never want to cook on the stove, this might be a good stove for you."


I have had some time to play with the stove and feel that great care must be taken when using it. I often use the pot support to put a bit of space between the cup and the flame--makes it easier to cook without boiling over instantly. I never use the maximum fuel output. I still don't think it was worth the money.

[Skid.]

So, what did JetBoil tell you when you contacted them??

[hikin_jim]

I posted this a while back:


"So far, I have been burned by hot metal, scalded by boiling macaroni when I tried to turn the heat down, and had my shirt dribbled on with hot coffee thru a lose lid.

You might think that I have given up--but no, not yet. Because, man, is this stove fast! It can boil water for tea befor I have time to unwrap the tea bag.

So here are my thoughts. The handle is not only worthless, but downright dangerous. The cozy material is too thin to be of much help in handeling a hot pot but does keep some heat in for a time to let food rehydrate. The lid is hard to use because there is no knob to lift it. It sticks when you just want to stir the pot and refuses to seal when you want to drink or pour from the pot--and its full of holes that let heat out and the odd bug in as well as let steam out into anything you try to use as an extra cozy. The pot attaches to the stove and often sticks so that it is hard to lift the pot from the stove witout picking up the whole thing together but precariously so. The stove can also be unwound from the canister as you try to separate the pot from its attachment points on the stove. If someone were to unwittingly unwind it enough to allow the canister to leak and the fuel became ignited.....

But did I say, the stove is fast.

I bent the rim of the stove out so that the pot will separate easier when I lift it. I am looking for a metal lid that will fit the pot and a pot lifter to use as a handle--this will negate some of the weight savings of Ti but I think it will be more usable and safer.

The stove is too hot to cook on and does not adjust to simmer without going out. The trick is to use the extra pot support to raise the pot enough to be cooler, it still won't simmer but at least it won't boil over as fast.

The stove has an auto ignition that worked reliablly--twice. It is best to use a lighter--add more carry weight to your total. The good news is that the cup that covers the bottom of the pot is pretty useless as a cup and too small for a bowl so you can save some grams by leaving it at home.

If you just want to boil water and never want to cook on the stove, this might be a good stove for you."


I have had some time to play with the stove and feel that great care must be taken when using it. I often use the pot support to put a bit of space between the cup and the flame--makes it easier to cook without boiling over instantly. I never use the maximum fuel output. I still don't think it was worth the money. Good write up. Thank you.

HJ

[hikin_jim]

So, what did JetBoil tell you when you contacted them?? I'm reporting a series of things I saw on the web. None of these stoves are my stoves. All the JB products I have are aluminum pots with aluminum heat exchangers. I have experienced no problems myself with any JB products except the piezoelectric ignition systems which at least in my experience aren't very reliable.

HJ

[jasonG]

yea ill stick with my alk

[hikin_jim]

Based on the feedback, conferring with others, and further analysis, I've re-written he post. Here's a link if you'd like to have a look: Titanium JetBoil Sol -- Caution -- REVISED (http://adventuresinstoving.blogspot.com/2012/02/titanium-jetboil-caution.html).

HJ