What's the difference ?

[The Cleaner]

What is the difference between an avid outdoorsman and a person starting a thru hike?Gear weight?Fire starting skills...being able to read weather signs?Just looking for input&ideas,a little discussion and satire&sarcasim....

[Lone Wolf]

"avid outdoorsmen" don't necessarily do any backpacking

[Spokes]

Avid outdoorsmen tend to wear red plaid flannel shirts. Reminds me of this classic Monty Python skit:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5zey8567bcg&feature=youtube_gdata_player

[kayak karl]

when i hear "avid outdoorsmen"i think of my dad, hunter, fisherman and camper. he never hiked.

[The Cleaner]

"avid outdoorsmen" don't necessarily do any backpacking Great point,then I've met some hikers who acted like they had never spent much time outdoors while they warmed up by my fire almost hypothermic.....

[Rasty]

Cloths - Camouflage vs Synthetic
Fire - Bonfire vs Alchy stove
Transportation - ATV vs Trail Runners
Pack - External Frame vs Internal
Food - Fresh bacon and eggs vs Crap
Distance - 1 mile vs 15 miles
Fun - About the Same

[Spokes]

Look in any L.L. Bean catalog and you'll find a slew of avid outdoorsmen. They seem to congregate there.

[CrumbSnatcher]

98% of 1st time thruhikers have never hiked/backpacked

[Spokes]

Cloths - Camouflage vs Synthetic
Fire - Bonfire vs Alchy stove
Transportation - ATV vs Trail Runners
Pack - External Frame vs Internal
Food - Fresh bacon and eggs vs Crap
Distance - 1 mile vs 15 miles
Fun - About the Same

Forgot one- they wear paracord survival bracelets.

[CrumbSnatcher]

including me in 1998

[Rasty]

Cloths - Camouflage vs Synthetic
Fire - Bonfire vs Alchy stove
Transportation - ATV vs Trail Runners
Pack - External Frame vs Internal
Food - Fresh bacon and eggs vs Crap
Distance - 1 mile vs 15 miles
Fun - About the Same

Forgot one- they wear paracord survival bracelets.

Ok sorry

Hikers wear paracord survival bracelets. Outdoorsmen just drive back to the road.

Is that correct?

[hikerboy57]

same diffreence as a man fishing and a man sanding on shore with a long stick, looking like an idiot.
many avid sportmen have dual burner stoves, more inclined to wear camo, which is one reason i hardly ever see avid outdoorsmen.
i undertand they also bowl overhand.

[Rasty]

same diffreence as a man fishing and a man sanding on shore with a long stick, looking like an idiot.
many avid sportmen have dual burner stoves, more inclined to wear camo, which is one reason i hardly ever see avid outdoorsmen.
i undertand they also bowl overhand.

Are they sanding the stick?:)

[The Cleaner]

Forgot one- they wear paracord survival bracelets. You left out the alcohol category.Does one carry/take it for ....stomach or stove?

[Spokes]

Ok sorry

Hikers wear paracord survival bracelets. Outdoorsmen just drive back to the road.

Is that correct?


No. Outdoorsmen wear paracord survival bracelets and like showing you how they can make a compass by floating a magnetized sewing needle on a leaf in a cup of water.

[hikerboy57]

Are they sanding the stick?:)not sure whether theyre sanding the stick or polishing the wand.

[The Cleaner]

What is the purpose of a survival bracelet?Outdoor bling?

[Rasty]

Ok sorry

Hikers wear paracord survival bracelets. Outdoorsmen just drive back to the road.

Is that correct?


No. Outdoorsmen wear paracord survival bracelets and like showing you how they can make a compass by floating a magnetized sewing needle on a leaf in a cup of water.

Do you bend the leaf for declination of the compass?

[Rasty]

What is the purpose of a survival bracelet?Outdoor bling?

Is it like the medic alert necklaces? Help I've fallen 3000 feet and I can't get up!

[hikerboy57]

Do you bend the leaf for declination of the compass?

this is not as easy at it sounds. make sure you paint the N side of the needle red( or was it the south side?)

[Rasty]

Do you bend the leaf for declination of the compass?

this is not as easy at it sounds. make sure you paint the N side of the needle red( or was it the south side?)

Definitely the East side.

[Spokes]

Do you bend the leaf for declination of the compass?

You can. Or just do it the easy way and walk sideways

[The Cleaner]

Is it like the medic alert necklaces? Help I've fallen 3000 feet and I can't get up! That's what a SPOT is for......lololololo

[Spokes]

this is not as easy at it sounds. make sure you paint the N side of the needle red( or was it the south side?)

Eureka! If people will buy a titanium cat trowel then they'll certainly buy a "magnetized sewing needle, leaf, and styrofoam cup survival compass kit.". It's just what avid outdoorsmen need.

Quick register an Internet domain name!

[rocketsocks]

You can. Or just do it the easy way and walk sidewaysI have a very old compass and the south needle is painted "Red" I think it was made before the last "Pole Shift":D

[The Cleaner]

Avid Outdoorsmen only drink Dos Equi.....

[rocketsocks]

Eureka! If people will buy a titanium cat trowel then they'll certainly buy a "magnetized sewing needle, leaf, and styrofoam cup survival compass kit.". It's just what avid outdoorsmen need.

Quick register an Internet domain name!Boy that's alot lighter than the chunck of "loadstone" Iv'e been toting around.

[Spokes]

How do you float a chuck of loadstone in a cup of water?

[Feral Bill]

I have a very old compass and the south needle is painted "Red" I think it was made before the last "Pole Shift":D Aussie import?

[rocketsocks]

How do you float a chuck of loadstone in a cup of water?You have to take a scuba diving corse,and be willing to dive 200 feet into damp spong.:D

[hikerboy57]

How do you float a chuck of loadstone in a cup of water?
really, really big leaf

[Drybones]

You have to kill something to be an avid outdoorsman. Hikers carry TP, avid outdoorsmen use whatever is in the woods. Avid outdoorsmen have rash when the leaves turn brown in winter. Most avid outdoorsmen recognize poison ivy...but not all.

[Storm]

98% of 1st time thruhikers have never hiked/backpacked

Is this a fact or are you just joking?

[Spokes]

Best thread in a long time....... Kudos to The Cleaner.

[Lone Wolf]

Is this a fact or are you just joking?

pretty much fact for the AT

[Rasty]

98% of 1st time thruhikers have never hiked/backpacked

Is this a fact or are you just joking?

Or very very small rocks!

[Rasty]

How do you float a chuck of loadstone in a cup of water?
really, really big leaf

Or very very small rocks!

Sorry I quoted the wrong one the first time.

[lunchbx]

I agree that most thru hiker starting out have prob never hiked a day in their lives but 98%? I would say that is a bit of an embellishment. My best guess would be more like 70 - 75%. Doesn't anyone participate in boy scouts anymore?

[CrumbSnatcher]

Is this a fact or are you just joking?
i am not joking,it might be a little lower as lunchbx suggested but its up there!
proof no! just something i always heard from multiple sources since 1998 , i wouldn't doubt if most triple crowners did the AT first?
nothing wrong with being new to hiking as you start your thru, thats how i started.
don't worry though, everyones an expert by the time they hit Hiawassee GA.:rolleyes::D

[BrianLe]

Back to the original question, I think the term "avid outdoorsmen" is too vague to be useful, to compare to the more specific "thru-hiker" term, though even that latter is a bit context sensitive. The outdoors-person term is definitely context sensitive. Some people might assume hunter, others a sort of 19th century "mountain man" type, others someone who does various outdoor sports, others might think of the sort of folks who do various motorized outdoor "sports", etc etc.

[The Cleaner]

The term "Avid Outdoorsman" was one of the choices to make when I submitted a product review.I was just looking for replies as to how some fellow WBers see theselves.IMO one who does many outdoor activities would have a better chance for completing a thru hike.Well in the last few years there seems to be a hostel,B&B, or trail magic about every other road crossing.Although outdoor skills do help one while hiking,there is no doubt that the nature of thru hiking has changed greatly with recent gear improvements& trail accomodations....

[BFI]

Avid outdoorsmen have large powerful chainsaws, big shiny axes, custom made 12" blade knives, they take bedroom slippers on hunting trips, sit in chairs nailed to trees (Usually out of harm’s way), sit in boats that have 400 Hp engines in lakes less than 1 mile long to catch a 1 pound bass, have motor homes with a trap door in the floor & a satellite dish on the roof so they drive out on the ice to fish and watch TV and best of all , outdoorsmen DONT hug, they slug each other in the arm.

[rocketsocks]

Avid outdoorsmen have large powerful chainsaws, big shiny axes, custom made 12" blade knives, they take bedroom slippers on hunting trips, sit in chairs nailed to trees (Usually out of harm’s way), sit in boats that have 400 Hp engines in lakes less than 1 mile long to catch a 1 pound bass, have motor homes with a trap door in the floor & a satellite dish on the roof so they drive out on the ice to fish and watch TV and best of all , outdoorsmen DONT hug, they slug each other in the arm.So what is the trap door for?

[Lone Wolf]

i'm a by god avid golfer!

[Lugh]

I'm pretty sure an avid outdoorsman has trophies on his wall..yep..trophies.

[moocow]

when i think of an avid outdoorsman i think of my dad. fisherman with 20 rods and reels even though he only uses two and keeps the other ones because, "they're still good". goes fishing 3-4 times a year. hunter with 20 hunting rifles even though he only uses the one that he trusts, several bows even though he can only carry one. sits at a deer stand in the woods from 4-10am, goes back to the cabin, stands in a deer stand from 5-8pm, goes back to the cabin. takes hunting trips 3-4 times a year. drives a big truck on the off chance that he might run into a dirt road. buys heavy, clunky camping gear because that's what my grandfather taught him, and what my grandfather did was real camping. even though camping involves reversing the truck into a state park campsite and sitting 20 feet from the truck just in case it gets cold or starts to rain. goes "camping" 2 times a year. i'm not criticizing that way of life. i grew up with it and i liked all the creature comforts. its just that thats what i think of when an outdoorsman identifies himself as an avid outdoorsman.

he is outdoors a lot of the year. he just happens to be very close to nice amenities at all times.

[moocow]

The term "Avid Outdoorsman" was one of the choices to make when I submitted a product review.I was just looking for replies as to how some fellow WBers see theselves.IMO one who does many outdoor activities would have a better chance for completing a thru hike.Well in the last few years there seems to be a hostel,B&B, or trail magic about every other road crossing.Although outdoor skills do help one while hiking,there is no doubt that the nature of thru hiking has changed greatly with recent gear improvements& trail accomodations....

this is kind of what i have a problem with when review sites ask if you're an avid outdoorsman. think of rei's customer product reviews. some of these avid outdoormen will talk about the awesomeness of a 12" folding saw and hatchet and their ability to cut down live wood for a campfire that they started with grill lighter fluid. or the longevity and burn time of a coleman gas lantern. or the double burner coleman stove they take to cook gourmet meals every morning on their cast iron skillets. or they're reviewing a two bedroom, 7 sleeper, 10 lb tent with awning. you can't tell me that they are taking any of that anywhere outside 50 feet of their car. but they do camp and they do it outdoors and often enough that they don't think of themselves as the family that goes car camping once a year and call themselves outdoorsmen. by that standard those people reviewing these things would call themselves avid outdoorsmen.

[hikerboy57]

an avid outdoorsman is never without a coleman lantern

[beakerman]

i love you all seem to look down at the outdoorsman just more WB snobbery. LW is almost exactly right...the outdorrsman doesn't hike but he left out the part about many (not all) hikers that can't start fires, improvise a shelter, recognize an edible plant....basically the bulk of hikers I know are walking through the woods. The outdoorsman can live in the woods.

[Lone Wolf]

most AT hikers are not comfortable in the "outdoors" they rely on shelters, blazes, cell phones, SPOTs, blow up pads, filters, chemicals, bear bags, hiking poles, shuttlers, etc., etc. they are out of place

[Spokes]

i love you all seem to look down at the outdoorsman just more WB snobbery. LW is almost exactly right...the outdorrsman doesn't hike but he left out the part about many (not all) hikers that can't start fires, improvise a shelter, recognize an edible plant....basically the bulk of hikers I know are walking through the woods. The outdoorsman can live in the woods.

You've just described everyone portrayed on the Nat Geo show Doomsday Preppers.

[The Cleaner]

most AT hikers are not comfortable in the "outdoors" they rely on shelters, blazes, cell phones, SPOTs, blow up pads, filters, chemicals, bear bags, hiking poles, shuttlers, etc., etc. they are out of place And probably the group most likely to leave litter or other stuff at shelters....

[The Cleaner]

an avid outdoorsman is never without a coleman lantern I have the single mantle backpacker model but never carry it...

[hikerboy57]

I have the single mantle backpacker model but never carry it...
when i first got married, my now ex-wife thought "what a great gift, the one thing i know he doesnt have".didnt want to hurt her feelings, as we were still newlyweds, so i couldnt return it.never used it. it was one of the things i let her keep in the divorce.

[The Cleaner]

Here's what avid outdoorsmen drive....1536915369 1978 Dodge Powerwagon...

[MaybeTomorrow]

When there is a hunting accident the avid outdoorsman is the shooter and the thru-hiker is the shootie.

[MaybeTomorrow]

....basically the bulk of hikers I know are walking through the woods. The outdoorsman can live in the woods.

Maybe this is better a topic for another thread but I do get the feeling more and more over the last 20 years that hiking is becoming a matter of taking as much technology with you as you can and then sort of holding your breathe for a few days while you are away from civilization. Are you there or are you just on a slightly longer umbilical?

[beakerman]

Maybe this is better a topic for another thread but I do get the feeling more and more over the last 20 years that hiking is becoming a matter of taking as much technology with you as you can and then sort of holding your breathe for a few days while you are away from civilization. Are you there or are you just on a slightly longer umbilical?

Personally I backpack and I'm an avid outdoorsman. I'll pack a few silly things like a colapsable fishing pole and a decent knife (do not think rambo...just a decent folding knife) and plan my hikes to include a little fishing if possible rather than going for 7 days straight of walking and trying to hit 20 mile days...that's not for me. Or if I'm off the beaten path and I come across some decent mushrooms or other edibles I'll harvest some to augment the dehydrated stuff in my pack...fresh beat dehydrated every time. And if I end up in a prepared camp site with a fire ring I can start a fire.

Its not about how many miles I walk on a trip its about being out there in the woods. I fal into both camps which is why I take some offense at the bashing of the outdoorsman that the WB snobs seem to want to do.

[beakerman]

When there is a hunting accident the avid outdoorsman is the shooter and the thru-hiker is the shootie.


and if it were not for the avid outdoorsman that you all are afraid of there wouldn't be nearly as much outdoors for anyone to enjoy. those hunting and fishing license fees go to help support preservation.

yep there are some idiots out there that shoot first and identify targets later no one group has cornered the market on idiots yet.

[beakerman]

Here's what avid outdoorsmen drive....1536915369 1978 Dodge Powerwagon...

don't knock the powerwagon...;)

[vamelungeon]

I think of an avid outdoorsman as someone who enjoys several outdoor activities as opposed to just hiking.

[beakerman]

You've just described everyone portrayed on the Nat Geo show Doomsday Preppers.

I disagree the doomsday preppers seem to be horders to me. Massive stockpiles of food, water and fuel. They do have some self-sufficiency skills because they usually can fabricate and or fix stuff when it breaks but I don't see them as outdoorsmen.

[beakerman]

So what is the trap door for?

the trap door is so you can pull out on the ice and open it, drill your hole and fish from the comfort of the RV.

[Old Hillwalker]

Putting this thread in the "Straight Forward" section is dumb!

[Tuckahoe]

I have always thought of the avid outdoorsman as one who can get along in the great outdoors. Sometimes there are the creature comforts and sometimes they rough it.

Those attempting a through hike do not necessarily know anything about the great outdoors, hiking or even camping and are probably pretty miserable along the way.

[rockerZ71]

Personally I backpack and I'm an avid outdoorsman. I'll pack a few silly things like a colapsable fishing pole and a decent knife (do not think rambo...just a decent folding knife) and plan my hikes to include a little fishing if possible rather than going for 7 days straight of walking and trying to hit 20 mile days...that's not for me. Or if I'm off the beaten path and I come across some decent mushrooms or other edibles I'll harvest some to augment the dehydrated stuff in my pack...fresh beat dehydrated every time. And if I end up in a prepared camp site with a fire ring I can start a fire.

Its not about how many miles I walk on a trip its about being out there in the woods. I fal into both camps which is why I take some offense at the bashing of the outdoorsman that the WB snobs seem to want to do.

Same here, backpacking to me half the time is about fishing in places I wouldn't get to fish otherwise. And just spending more time outdoors. I also kayak (fishing and recreation, no whitewater yet) and own a 19' boat with 150hp motor (mostly for fishing but also beer and chicks), and a stripped out 1976 camper with a couple futons in it that I keep at the deer camp along with that double burner coleman stove and cast iron skillets for cooking those gourmet meals.


I think of an avid outdoorsman as someone who enjoys several outdoor activities as opposed to just hiking.

+1 to that

[rockerZ71]

I couldn't figure out how to edit my post but wanted to add that don't think that hunters who sleep in campers and have directv at the camp should be considered less than outdoorsmen -- hikers sleep in tents and cook using lightweight gear out of necessity, while enjoying the outdoor sports hunters prefer does not require that. They can, however, identify game sign and a good spot to set up a stand/blind or maybe just a good tree to lean against while waiting for the turkeys to come down from the roost and then manage to call the animal to within 30 yards or so. To each his own, I'd like to experience it all.

[Spokes]

I disagree the doomsday preppers seem to be horders to me. Massive stockpiles of food, water and fuel. They do have some self-sufficiency skills because they usually can fabricate and or fix stuff when it breaks but I don't see them as outdoorsmen.

You ever see inside the backpack of an avid outdoorsmen? Talk about hording.

[beakerman]

So the avid outdoorsman pack differnent than you spokes...what happened to HYOH? Keep in mind the avid outdoorsman is not going 2000 miles but maybe 20 round trip for a weekend of fishing at a secluded spot along the lake or up a run to get away from the Texans (little NM humor there). They don't need dehydrated everything nor do they need to cut the handles off their toothbrush.

You will find that when they go try long distance backpacking they start out just like you did...with what they know and they know what worked for them on those shorter trips...hence what you find in the backpack of a avid outdoorsman that is new to long distance bp'ing.

I tailor my pack to the job at hand. my pack always ends up at right around 40 pounds full load. I'm not UL by any stretch, my budget does not permit it nor does my desire for comfort. My point is on a short trip I'll bring a chair and a small wire grill (steak on the first night out is so nice)...no way would I consider taking that kinid of stuff on anything more than 4 or 5 day hike forget multiple weeks or months on the trail.

Some folks camp to hike others hike to camp and where you fall on that spectrum will define how you look at things in your pack or in the packs of others....

[rocketsocks]

So the avid outdoorsman pack differnent than you spokes...what happened to HYOH? Keep in mind the avid outdoorsman is not going 2000 miles but maybe 20 round trip for a weekend of fishing at a secluded spot along the lake or up a run to get away from the Texans (little NM humor there). They don't need dehydrated everything nor do they need to cut the handles off their toothbrush.

You will find that when they go try long distance backpacking they start out just like you did...with what they know and they know what worked for them on those shorter trips...hence what you find in the backpack of a avid outdoorsman that is new to long distance bp'ing.

I tailor my pack to the job at hand. my pack always ends up at right around 40 pounds full load. I'm not UL by any stretch, my budget does not permit it nor does my desire for comfort. My point is on a short trip I'll bring a chair and a small wire grill (steak on the first night out is so nice)...no way would I consider taking that kinid of stuff on anything more than 4 or 5 day hike forget multiple weeks or months on the trail.

Some folks camp to hike others hike to camp and where you fall on that spectrum will define how you look at things in your pack or in the packs of others....Well said there Beakerman,could not have defined it better.

[surfnturk]

You ever see inside the backpack of an avid outdoorsmen? Talk about hording.
I'm kind of a numbers guy and I'm curious as to how many "avid outdoorsmans" packs have you inventoried?

[Hennessy]

Something about this thread reminds me of my cousin. He has every knife that Bear Grylls ever put his name on. He has every stove from heavy to featherweight. If he sees a piece of gimmicky "survival" gear (i.e. paracord bracelet, belt knife) he just has to have it. He has probably spent tens of thousands on camping gear alone... and yet he never really hikes. He might go out on a boy scout expedition (he's a scout leader), but it's never anything major. He rarely if ever finds himself in a position where his "survival skills" which he broods about constantly can be put to the test.

[rocketsocks]

Well said there Beakerman,could not have defined it better.And I should point out...I'm a big time hoarder,big time.But I'm gettin better now.:D

[beakerman]

Something about this thread reminds me of my cousin. He has every knife that Bear Grylls ever put his name on. He has every stove from heavy to featherweight. If he sees a piece of gimmicky "survival" gear (i.e. paracord bracelet, belt knife) he just has to have it. He has probably spent tens of thousands on camping gear alone... and yet he never really hikes. He might go out on a boy scout expedition (he's a scout leader), but it's never anything major. He rarely if ever finds himself in a position where his "survival skills" which he broods about constantly can be put to the test.

Your buddy is a gear head. Personally I think practicing your skills is important and I do so several times a year, not all at once and I always have back up just in case something doesn't go quite right. What I mean by that is I'll start fires primitive ways even though I have a lighter in my pocket or I'll trap a squirrel, clean and eat it even though I have plenty of food in the pack...just to keep myself in practice..tuned up so to speak. However i think putting yourself in harms way just to practice something is not the best idea. Its one thing to do it for a TV show but to just go out and get in trouble is not smart.

I also refuse to endorse anything Bear Gryllis does or uses. He's a complete idiot and is going to get someone killed. He does stupid things like jump into the tops of trees like Rambo in First Blood...stupid idea and a great way to break several bones...just what you need when you are lost in an alpine environment...hike the extra 5 miles and find a better way down. Les Stroud I can go along with...very conservative in his approach. One of the rules in survival is not to make your situation worse but doing stupid things.

[rocketsocks]

the trap door is so you can pull out on the ice and open it, drill your hole and fish from the comfort of the RV.I'm gonna cut a hole in the floor of my wifes car,but not sure how I'll cut a hole in the dock where I fish!