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View Full Version : Ok, still not UL but critique the packweight please



swamprat
03-01-2012, 21:57
:-?Here is a list of everything,, down to the t.p

osprey atmos 65
henry shires tarptent
big agnas sleeping bag
insulated air core pad
silk bag liner
msr liquid fuel stove
fuel bottle w/fuel
aluminum .9 pot
plastic cup
plastic spoon
gravity filter/two platy bags
1 camelbak
1 small headlamp
guide book
pen
small notebook
12 x 12 camp towel (sea to summit)
1 bandana
4 dry sacks seperating food, cloths, misc items, puffy jacket




toiletries/
1/4 roll or less t.p.
travel size deodorant
travel toothpaste
toothbrush
nail clippers

first aid
3 bandaids
moleskin
2 small packets antibiotic ointment

cloths
night/capalene shirt, light socks
day/ wicking shirt
smart wool lg sleeve
puffy jacket
light base layer pants
convertible pants
2 pair socks/one worn
2 pair underwear +1 worn
tarp/poncho

electronics
smartphone
charger
pentax pt and shoot camera
charger
small rechargeable charger very small maybe 4 oz. (will recharge phone at least 1.5 times)

total with food 37 lbs

How you guys keep it under 20 lbs and survive, I'm impressed.

Lone Wolf
03-01-2012, 21:59
that's average. just go and add or subtract stuff as you go. you'll be fine

MuddyWaters
03-01-2012, 22:08
You didnt list any weights!

Your pack is heavier than needs to be (could be 2.5 lbs)
Your tent is heavier than needs to be (could be a 1lb cuben tent)
your sleeping bag and pad is heavier than needs to be (try a Western Mountaineering -lite series)
a bag liner is weight that is much better put to use in the bag itself
Alcohol stove for solo trail use is lighter
get rid of filter, carry Aqua Mira or bleach for questionable water sources
dont need camelback, drink from water bottles
take only guidebook pages you need, bounce the rest
DRY SACKS are heavy. All you need are sacks (cuben) to organize
use a hefty trash compactor liner to waterproof your pack. (2oz)

Your ancestors didnt have toilet paper, you dont need it either.
deodorant?? LMAO
Make dried toothpaste dots, cut handle off toothbrush and drill holes to lighten
get a UL knife (swiss army) that has scissors for nails. Also can be used to open food. Nailclippers are not multipurpose
Electronics?

There is no reason not to be 15-20 lbs before food/water even with winter gear, and an avg carried wt of 20-25 lbs, 30 max.

Lone Wolf
03-01-2012, 22:20
You didnt list any weights!

Your pack is heavier than needs to be (could be 2.5 lbs)
Your tent is heavier than needs to be (could be a 1lb cuben tent)
your sleeping bag and pad is heavier than needs to be (try a Western Mountaineering -lite series)
a bag liner is weight that is much better put to use in the bag itself
Alcohol stove for solo trail use is lighter
get rid of filter, carry Aqua Mira or bleach for questionable water sources
dont need camelback, drink from water bottles
take only guidebook pages you need, bounce the rest
DRY SACKS are heavy. All you need are sacks (cuben) to organize
use a hefty trash compactor liner to waterproof your pack. (2oz)

Your ancestors didnt have toilet paper, you dont need it either.
deodorant?? LMAO
Make dried toothpaste dots, cut handle off toothbrush and drill holes to lighten
get a UL knife (swiss army) that has scissors for nails. Also can be used to open food. Nailclippers are not multipurpose
Electronics?

There is no reason not to be 15-20 lbs before food/water even with winter gear, and an avg carried wt of 20-25 lbs, 30 max.





swamprat, this works for him. most likely not for you. you'll get 100 pieces of "advice" from all the experts. go with what you got

Blissful
03-01-2012, 22:21
Rather skimpy first aid, imo. I'd take duct tape also. Blisters are a big factor heading out. Include some aspirin in your kit at your age. Might want Tylenol also.
You're taking a heavy stove, which accounts for weight
You've got chargers for everything. Esp with a camera charger, I'd consider a bounce box for it.
Don't need nail clippers if you have a small jackknife with scissors.
I'd get some dri ducks instead of your poncho.
You're carrying a lot of water bags. I'd cut one.
Need a hat, gloves
bear bag rope?
Hope your spoon is lexan, plastic melts in hot food
Bet you have too much food also... :)

Blissful
03-01-2012, 22:24
cut handle off toothbrush and drill holes to lighten



I've seen people advocate this. I do not. You can't grip the brush handle properly to brush properly. Esp back teeth that can easily get decayed. All you need is one bad tooth to get you really sick.

DO not save .00002 ounce by sawing off a toothbrush handle.

MuddyWaters
03-01-2012, 23:13
He asked for critique, and queried how people got to below 20 lbs.

My son and I will do a quick trip in a couple weeks, our packs will be right around 15 lbs for 3 days w/ food and water. Although we may do the distance in just 2 if we feel like pushing hard enough on day 1. That is the freedom a light pack affords you.

Cutting the handle off the toothbrush to save ~.2 oz isnt even the point. The point is to have analyzed each and every item in your pack, no matter how small or trivial, and know that you are carrying the absolute lightest form of each,( possibly that you choose to afford ) that will do the function its intended to do. Carry multipurpose items when possible to delete others, and carry nothing that doesnt have a definite defined use.

grams add up to ounces, ounces to lbs, and lbs to misery

Slo-go'en
03-01-2012, 23:49
Swamprat, we need to know the weight with out food or water. Those are variables and we can't judge your base weight with them included. Especially since you didn't list weights of the individual items.

Do you have a 20 pound base with 17 pounds of food and water or do you have a 35 pound base with 2 pounds of food and water?

I have all you got and more with a base wieght of 17-18 pounds, which is good for early spring in the south. Not hard to do.

TOMP
03-02-2012, 00:30
Whatever you do dont skim on cold weather gear to lower your pack weight. Only you know what you need to stay warm. Everything I have read indicates that there will be a need for cold weather gear so be weary of anyone suggesting that you dump some insulation for a few ounces. They wont be out there on the day when it is cold and you need it. Maybe that person is warm enough without it or maybe they just dont hike when its cold you just dont know. Again only you know what you need to stay warm.

Lugh
03-02-2012, 01:36
:-?Here is a list of everything,, down to the t.p

osprey atmos 65
henry shires tarptent
big agnas sleeping bag
insulated air core pad
silk bag liner
msr liquid fuel stove
fuel bottle w/fuel
aluminum .9 pot
plastic cup
plastic spoon
gravity filter/two platy bags
1 camelbak
1 small headlamp
guide book
pen
small notebook
12 x 12 camp towel (sea to summit)
1 bandana
4 dry sacks seperating food, cloths, misc items, puffy jacket




toiletries/
1/4 roll or less t.p.
travel size deodorant
travel toothpaste
toothbrush
nail clippers

first aid
3 bandaids
moleskin
2 small packets antibiotic ointment

cloths
night/capalene shirt, light socks
day/ wicking shirt
smart wool lg sleeve
puffy jacket
light base layer pants
convertible pants
2 pair socks/one worn
2 pair underwear +1 worn
tarp/poncho

electronics
smartphone
charger
pentax pt and shoot camera
charger
small rechargeable charger very small maybe 4 oz. (will recharge phone at least 1.5 times)

total with food 37 lbs

How you guys keep it under 20 lbs and survive, I'm impressed.

They spend a TON of money. That is how.

ezNomad
03-02-2012, 03:05
I don't know how you have 37lbs. I'm at 31lbs with a regular solo tent (REI T1 quarter) and more random stuff, and more electronics. I weighed my pack twice with everything in it and added up weight. My base is 23 lbs 1.5lb pack, ~7lb tent/pad/bag, 1.5lb cookingset, 6lb packed clothes, 2.5lb misc supplies, 4lb electronics (not including worn pocketed smartphone/camera). Maybe food/water? I only plan to carry 6 pounds food (to resupply every 4 days at least initially) and 1 litre water.

moocow
03-02-2012, 04:14
They spend a TON of money. That is how.

amen to that! i've seen a lot of these ultra ultralight hiker's gear lists and have summed it up to two categories.
they have all decided that weight trumps all.

some use their pocket book. they'll spend up to a thousand dollars on shelter and a sleeping bag alone. and all in the name of saving, if they're lucky, a pound.

then there are those that remove so many of the small things that i would personally find myself completely miserable without them.

here's a small list of things that i choose to carry and that more than a few ultra ultralighters don't.
water filtering system
shelter
long pants (or even convertible pants for that matter)
rain jacket
rain pants
underwear
an extra pair of socks
camp shoes
and extra long sleeve shirt
a fleece for when its cooler than expected
camera (after all, phone will do the same job)
stove
cup
camp towel
notebook
bag liner
pack rain cover
deodorant

the list goes on but you get the idea.
that's how you get those incredibly low pack weights.

swjohnsey
03-02-2012, 08:02
BS.
Western Mounteering Highlite sleeping bag w/cuben drysack $290 1 lb 1 oz
ULA Ohm 2.0 .................................................. ......................$200 1 lb 12 oz
Neoair Xlite............................................. ..............................$130 7 oz
Big Agnes Flycreek 1................................................. ..............$180 2 lb

Big Four.............................................. ..................................$800 5 lb 4oz

Even with the stuff you are carrying I don't see 37 lbs. I suspect you are carrying too much food and water.

swamprat
03-02-2012, 09:32
He asked for critique, and queried how people got to below 20 lbs.

My son and I will do a quick trip in a couple weeks, our packs will be right around 15 lbs for 3 days w/ food and water. Although we may do the distance in just 2 if we feel like pushing hard enough on day 1. That is the freedom a light pack affords you.

Cutting the handle off the toothbrush to save ~.2 oz isnt even the point. The point is to have analyzed each and every item in your pack, no matter how small or trivial, and know that you are carrying the absolute lightest form of each,( possibly that you choose to afford ) that will do the function its intended to do. Carry multipurpose items when possible to delete others, and carry nothing that doesnt have a definite defined use.

grams add up to ounces, ounces to lbs, and lbs to misery

Great info muddywaters. one day I may try the ultra light route. For now, this old geiser wants a little comfort. As stated, You guys impress the hell out of me with the UL hiking. Thanks for the info.

swamprat
03-02-2012, 09:34
Hey thethinker, i was looking for this type of response for us average people.... What is your pack weight with about 4 days of food?

swamprat
03-02-2012, 09:38
I don't know how you have 37lbs. I'm at 31lbs with a regular solo tent (REI T1 quarter) and more random stuff, and more electronics. I weighed my pack twice with everything in it and added up weight. My base is 23 lbs 1.5lb pack, ~7lb tent/pad/bag, 1.5lb cookingset, 6lb packed clothes, 2.5lb misc supplies, 4lb electronics (not including worn pocketed smartphone/camera). Maybe food/water? I only plan to carry 6 pounds food (to resupply every 4 days at least initially) and 1 litre water.

Its got to be the food and water. Reading your list makes me PROUD!! You need a truck, not a backpack. Just kidd'n. I do see where I should be lighter though. How are you weighing your stuff?

takethisbread
03-02-2012, 09:39
that's average. just go and add or subtract stuff as you go. you'll be fine


True. You'll figure it out. It helps to list your departure date, it affects the gear required

takethisbread
03-02-2012, 09:40
that's average. just go and add or subtract stuff as you go. you'll be fine


True. You'll figure it out. It helps to list your departure date, it affects the gear required

swamprat
03-02-2012, 09:49
my start date is march 12. I would expect some cold weather but it's been such a mild winter, I could have gotten on the trail a month ago.

Mike2012
03-02-2012, 10:25
I'd keep the nail clippers if you have thick toenails like me. Better to do that job right than to risk injury. Then again I just bought a pair for $1.69 at Safeway so you could buy clippers when you need them and then put them in the hiker box (with the food - yuck!).

gearfreak
03-02-2012, 10:32
Well, if nothing else is gained here at least we know Mike Clelland's new book is selling well. If you have the luxury and good fortune to replace most of your gear, maybe some of this advice will help. Otherwise, use what you have, get rid of what you determine isn't needed and replace items as you can.

moocow
03-02-2012, 10:51
well, i started at amicalola with three days of food and three liters of water (i know, probably too much but i was use to texas hiking) at 33 lbs with winter weight. three days later i lost another two or three pounds. i just came home and dumped another 2-3 pounds of winter weight since i know i won't be on the trail again until late march. i don't know the weight of every single piece of gear so i can't really make one of those lists that people make that list each thing individually. i used the amicalola weight and then i weighed in at home. i had to balance out reaonable weight and reasonable cost.

moocow
03-02-2012, 12:01
BS.
Western Mounteering Highlite sleeping bag w/cuben drysack $290 1 lb 1 oz
ULA Ohm 2.0 .................................................. ......................$200 1 lb 12 oz
Neoair Xlite............................................. ..............................$130 7 oz
Big Agnes Flycreek 1................................................. ..............$180 2 lb

Big Four.............................................. ..................................$800 5 lb 4oz

Even with the stuff you are carrying I don't see 37 lbs. I suspect you are carrying too much food and water.

by no means do i say that this is what the typical ultralighter does. this is just what SOME ultra ultralighters do. as the years go buy i always bump into someone on the trail that has something lighter. i'm talking about the few that choose to always have the best, newest, lightest gear on the market. i recall meeting a guy i think it was in 2009 who bragged about his $550 sleeping bag, $400 tent, $275 pack. they all came in at some absurd number like 4.25 lbs. i'm sure its possible he was lying to me about the cost but why?

its nice and easy when your first piece of gear is an ultralight piece. for example, a few years ago the first and only pack i bought was an osprey atmos 65. at the time of purchase it was considered an ultralight pack. campmor now lists them at $230 and weighing 3lb 10oz for my size. after years of service its still good. and despite the superior weight and rave reviews of ULA products, i can't find myself justifying spending an extra $200 for a ULA Ohm when i have a perfectly good pack at home even with the fact that i would be saving nearly 2 lbs. but lets say i do purchase that pack. and then a year from now i hear about zpacks for the first time. i learn that i can get my pack all the way down to 8.3 oz by buying a zpacks blast. so i spend $195 for a zpacks blast. that means that within a couple of years i would have spent a total of $625 on packs! i want to get as light as i can, but i can't and won't allow myself to be in a financial hole when i can make due with what i have. SOME people do make that sacrifice, but not me.

Slo-go'en
03-02-2012, 13:03
I noticed the OP has a MSR liquid fuel stove and fuel bottle. Switching to a alky stove would shave off a couple of pounds right there. likey a good 5% of the total weight.

skinewmexico
03-02-2012, 16:49
For now, this old geiser wants a little comfort.

I don't get this line of thinking that buying lighter weight gear is uncomfortable. Use the lightest tool for the job. I guess the philosophical question you have to answer is "am I camping, or hiking?".

swamprat
03-02-2012, 18:05
I don't get this line of thinking that buying lighter weight gear is uncomfortable. Use the lightest tool for the job. I guess the philosophical question you have to answer is "am I camping, or hiking?".


Well, for the next 5 months, I figue I will be doing some of both. See ya on the trail.

MuddyWaters
03-02-2012, 18:34
Ultralight gear doesnt have to be expensive. Some is, some isnt.

Usually, GoLite puts the Jam on clearance each Jan. when they bring out another yr model. $70. for a quality 30oz pack. Most paid more than that for their 4-6 lb packs.

Learn to sleep on a ridgerest 3/4 length. Solite. 9 oz, trim it to 8 oz. $20

8x10 silnylon tarp - 19oz and $90 from Oware.
6 oz bivy from several small makers on BPL - $90

20degree quilt Revelation X from Enlightened Equipment - 21 oz. -$190

Hmmm. I see a big 4 anyone can buy and use, that weighs 84 oz = 5.25 lb, and a cost of $460.

JAK
03-02-2012, 18:39
I think you can go with it and figure it out as you go. Some nice kit there. Question anything you haven't bought yet.
Try not to duplicate clothing. If you can't wear it all in the worst conditions you have planned for, you don't need it all. Extra clothing beyond that tends to stay damp and dirty.

MuddyWaters
03-02-2012, 18:48
Of course, hiking with my son can be :

share of 2P tent = 13 oz ~$250 (this one was expensive = $500 for 2p at 26 oz)
sleeping bag = 19 oz (summerlite = $250 used)
pack = 23 oz (ula ohm = $110 used)
pad = 3.5 oz (gossamer gear nightlite torso if temp is > 30s, pack under legs)= $15

Big 4 = 58.5 oz = 3.65 lb

turtle fast
03-02-2012, 18:51
Just remember that a poncho is fine when the air is calm, get a little wind and you got a kite. It also does not work as well in colder weather to configure a layering system to keep warm and more importantly dry. It snowed in Georgia when I was there...the locals freaked out.

Whack-a-mole
03-03-2012, 00:45
Take the TP. I don't care what others do, take the TP. Last Oct on a 5 day section hike, my buddy was asking to use mine about half way through the trip. I said sure go ahead. After a couple days I asked him why he kept needing my tp? Did his get wet or what? His reply was that he planned to do without, but found out how bad that was! For those that can do with out, my hat is off to ya! One other thing- I prefer to leave the deodorant at home, but I do take a travel pack of about 15 baby wipes. After using "the restroom", I use a baby wipe to clean my face, pits, and then my groin. Be sure to keep your hands clean during this process. Soooo many people talk about getting sick from water, but I'd bet a million bucks its from not keeping your hands clean after...well you know what I mean.

MJW155
03-03-2012, 01:43
Yea don't skimp on TP and deodrant. While it's true our ancestors didn't use TP, they also didn't know how easy it was to get sick. You'll need deodrant for when you get to town. If you don't use it, people will be able to smell you from 10 feet away. Not a good idea when trying to get a hotel room for the night or a table at dinner. Don't skimp on a toothbrush either. You need the torque of a long handle to get the plaque/germs of molars in the back of the mouth. Cut weight by trimming useless straps off a pack or keeping track of water sources. etc. (carry 1 quart when you know it's enough to reach the next water hole instead of carrying 2 quarts.)

Big Dawg
03-03-2012, 03:17
How are you weighing your stuff?

I use a digital kitchen scale found at Walmart for $25. It was one of the best purchses I made several years ago. It helped me realize how the small stuff added up to real pounds on your back. I'm not ultralight,, don't care to be. But the stuff I do carry has gone through the "weigh and determine if it's worth the weight".

I'm heading out for a section hike next week for 6 days, and my fully loaded Atmos 65 w/ food and 1 liter water will weigh about 31 lbs. My guess is that if you invested in a scale, you'd drop 4 to 6 lbs immediately,, maybe more if you included food and water in your critique. I keep track of my gear and weights in an Excel spreadsheet. Makes it easier to come back to and manipulate. If you need one as a format, many here including myself could send you one via email.

Ultimately have a blast, and fine tune as you go!!

MuddyWaters
03-03-2012, 08:42
+1 on the scale. Everything has weight. Walmart had decent kitchen scale, harbor freight has a few too. It will be the best $20-25$ you spend backpacking. As previous posters said, weigh everything, put in spreadsheet.

just for kicks, sub lighter choices and you will see how light you can easily go with changes, decide what you can really get rid of.

Im not a UL zealot, I have some arthritis and osteoarthritis in my back, and choose spend $$ to get to UL-SUL range to make it easy on me, and so my son can also carry all he needs to as well. But when you experience the ease of a light pack, you want to share with others to improve their experiences too. With todays materials , nobody ever needs to carry a pack more than 30 lbs, ever, if they select their choices carefully.

swamprat
03-03-2012, 10:17
I use a digital kitchen scale found at Walmart for $25. It was one of the best purchses I made several years ago. It helped me realize how the small stuff added up to real pounds on your back. I'm not ultralight,, don't care to be. But the stuff I do carry has gone through the "weigh and determine if it's worth the weight".

I'm heading out for a section hike next week for 6 days, and my fully loaded Atmos 65 w/ food and 1 liter water will weigh about 31 lbs. My guess is that if you invested in a scale, you'd drop 4 to 6 lbs immediately,, maybe more if you included food and water in your critique. I keep track of my gear and weights in an Excel spreadsheet. Makes it easier to come back to and manipulate. If you need one as a format, many here including myself could send you one via email.

Ultimately have a blast, and fine tune as you go!!

Thanks for the offer, if you don't mind I will take you up on that.

Swamprat

swamprat
03-03-2012, 16:44
I use a digital kitchen scale found at Walmart for $25. It was one of the best purchses I made several years ago. It helped me realize how the small stuff added up to real pounds on your back. I'm not ultralight,, don't care to be. But the stuff I do carry has gone through the "weigh and determine if it's worth the weight".

I'm heading out for a section hike next week for 6 days, and my fully loaded Atmos 65 w/ food and 1 liter water will weigh about 31 lbs. My guess is that if you invested in a scale, you'd drop 4 to 6 lbs immediately,, maybe more if you included food and water in your critique. I keep track of my gear and weights in an Excel spreadsheet. Makes it easier to come back to and manipulate. If you need one as a format, many here including myself could send you one via email.

Ultimately have a blast, and fine tune as you go!!

Well, bought the wal-mart digital scale,,, 19.95. Weighed everything individually. Came up with a two ounce difference. 35 pounds by stepping on a bathroom scale with pack on. 35.2 by adding up everything seperately. I was surprised that it came this close. Good bathroom scale I guess!! Anyway. I do have 2.4 pounds of gorp that the wife insist comes with me. Whoever is on the trail with me that evening we will have some fine homemade gorp to eat!!! So if you starting March 12th, save room for desert!!

Firefighter503
03-03-2012, 17:28
Here ya go swamprat:

Link to Basic Gear List (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApHmSUFrdzzqdHQzbl82clRGNGdBN2p1X0JQd1JfZ lE)

This is based off of Winton Porter's gear list, I just made it into a spreadsheet for my brothers and I to organize our gear. Keep in mind that all gear is not needed, and all gear needed may not be listed. For instance, I no longer bring rain pants, or two sets of thermals. This should get you started in the right direction though.

swamprat
03-03-2012, 18:50
Here ya go swamprat:

Link to Basic Gear List (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ApHmSUFrdzzqdHQzbl82clRGNGdBN2p1X0JQd1JfZ lE)

This is based off of Winton Porter's gear list, I just made it into a spreadsheet for my brothers and I to organize our gear. Keep in mind that all gear is not needed, and all gear needed may not be listed. For instance, I no longer bring rain pants, or two sets of thermals. This should get you started in the right direction though.


Thanks firefighter503

Big Dawg
03-15-2012, 05:42
Thanks for the offer, if you don't mind I will take you up on that.

Swamprat

Did the spreadsheet that Firefighter mentioned work for you, or do you still need a spreadsheet from me?

q-tip
03-15-2012, 10:05
My first AT pack was just where you are, 38 lbs including food & water. I have my base weight down to 13.83 lbs before food and water. It took three years and a total of $3,100. I am not suggesting you make any changes, but you can get everything down, but its pennies to drop lbs, its hundreds to drop ounces...HYOH

dab48eu
03-16-2012, 10:35
I agree not to skip the TP. A recent article in Wilderness Medicine Journal was a study of hikers on the AT who presented to local hospitals or clinics with either a chief complaint of diarrhea or " Giardia". The investigator only included cases with documented stool cultures and 80% of the stool cultures grew out E.Coli which is an intestinal bacteria. Good hygiene is very important on the trail to avoid getting sick. I would not want to shake hands or dip my hands into their trail mix with anyone who does not use TP because they probably do not carry soap or sanitizer to use on their hands after their BM in order to save weight.