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Derek81pci
03-14-2012, 22:19
I know what the average hiker burns per day, around 7 thousand. But, how ouch on average do people typically take in? Trying to finalize some food options and wondering what the average was, if anyone knows. Also, what are some of your favorite high calorie foods toi pack along? Thanks in advance!

MuddyWaters
03-14-2012, 22:38
I know what the average hiker burns per day, around 7 thousand. But, how ouch on average do people typically take in? Trying to finalize some food options and wondering what the average was, if anyone knows. Also, what are some of your favorite high calorie foods toi pack along? Thanks in advance!

I think many limit to about 2 lbs food per day. Thats simply all anyone wants to carry. Most dry food is going to average about 125 cal/oz. Lower foods are ~100 and highest is about 150 cal/oz.

So, 32oz x 125 = 4000 cal per day.

You can do the math on weight loss.

ChinMusic
03-14-2012, 22:53
4000/day on the trail seems to be the common answer.

kayak karl
03-14-2012, 23:00
in cold weather i would go to 2.5 lb for 5000 cal.

DavidNH
03-14-2012, 23:05
no matter how many calories you take in.. you will hike it off and then some.

ChinMusic
03-14-2012, 23:09
in cold weather i would go to 2.5 lb for 5000 cal.

I know this is true but I just cannot imagine it. My longest section hike is 8 days and I was doing good to jam 2000 down my throat. I guess I will "learn".

kayak karl
03-14-2012, 23:30
my hunger doesn't kick in till day 7-10. i pack 3000 for those days cause i know i won't eat more. after that i carry more and eat 5 times a day.

Derek81pci
03-15-2012, 17:55
Probably going to stick to junk food and boil-and-add-water pasta type meals. Little Debbie seems to be the best high cal / low weight food... should be interesting to see how long it takes me to get burned out on them.

Malto
03-15-2012, 18:54
I started my thru eating about 5k per day and was eating 6-7000 calories per day by the end. The best estimate that I have for burn rate is 8000 per day. My starting weight was 187, ending weight was 174 and I averaged over 27 miles per day over 98 days including all zeros and neros. My base weight was 8 lbs and I averaged about 2 days worth of food carried. I suspect that the average hiker is burning less than the 7000 cal/day estimate.

The only thing that kept me from withering away was catching up on the 13 zeros that I took. Like all thru hikers it was a food fest. During my five days in Tahoe mid-trip I had the goal of gaining 5 lbs in 5 days. I was successful.

Malto
03-15-2012, 18:59
Oh, the food I ate was cereal,oatmeal or pop tarts for breakfast, pnb on tortillas for most lunches, a homemade equivalent of freeze dried dinners. And 300 calories of either Maltodextrin mix or pure junk food per hour all day long. The junk food was candy bars and cookies, some nuts in the evening, chips and thing like combos or pnb filled pretzels. I actually had to train myself to eat that much on my training hikes prior to my trip.

JAK
03-15-2012, 19:10
I know what the average hiker burns per day, around 7 thousand. But, how ouch on average do people typically take in? Trying to finalize some food options and wondering what the average was, if anyone knows. Also, what are some of your favorite high calorie foods toi pack along? Thanks in advance!

The average hiker does not burn 7000 Cal/day. Not even close.

Deadeye
03-15-2012, 19:12
Probably going to stick to junk food and boil-and-add-water pasta type meals. Little Debbie seems to be the best high cal / low weight food... should be interesting to see how long it takes me to get burned out on them.

Why plan to eat low quality food while demanding high output from your body? There are calorie- and nutrient-dense foods aplenty.

JAK
03-15-2012, 19:38
I suggest this formula to estimate your calorie burn. With personal experience you can fine tune it.

Total Calories = Base Calories + Hiking Calories
Base Calories = Lean Body Weight x 10 + Body Fat x 5
Hiking Calories = Total Weight on Feet x ( Miles + 500'Gains )

Example: I am 6' and 210 pounds. My Lean Body Weight is 150 pounds.
You can estimate you lean body mass from your ideal weight minus 10-15%.
Lets say I average 13 miles per day with 3500 feet of cummulative gain, carrying 20 pounds skin out on average.

Base Calories = 150 x 10 + 60 x 5 = 1800 Calories
Hiking Calories = 230 x ( 13 + 7 ) = 4600 Calories
Total Calories = 1800 + 4600 = 6400 Calories
That is close to 7000, but I think I am bigger than most people, and I think my hiking numbers are high. Should be more like 80% of 4600 I think. Not sure.

Take for example someone leaner and meaner than me doing the trail in 90 days. Say they are 130 pound lean plus 15 pounds fat plus 20 pounds average skin out.
2181 miles / 90 = 24.5 miles per day. 515,000 feet / 500 / 90 = 1030/90 = 11.5 equivalent miles gain per day.

Base Calories = 130 x 10 + 15 x 5 = 1375 Calories
Hiking Calories = 165 x ( 24.5 + 11.5 ) = 5940 Calories
Total Calories = 1375 + 5940 = 7315 Calories per day.
So there's another way to burn 7300 Calories per day, but again I think the 5950 should be 5940 x 80% = 4800, for more like 6000 Calories total.

I suggest developing your own formula and fudge factor, but it should be based on weight and miles per day. There is no average hiker.

JAK
03-15-2012, 19:44
I agree that junk food and empty calories should be a very small part of the diet.
Eat real food. 5000-6000 calories per day for 120 days requires better nutrition, not worse.
Everyone's goal should be to finish healthier and fitter than when they start, unless already in top shape.

MuddyWaters
03-15-2012, 19:55
You can pretend its possible to eat healthier all you want.

Junk food is better than no food, and thats what you are looking at most of the time. You cant keep up even with the most calorie dense food available.

Calorie dense foods means sugar and fat. Nuts are high in fats and are good GORP.

Take multivitamins to help offset the lack of good diet. Not perfect, but better than not.

Leanthree
03-15-2012, 20:12
2 pounds per day is too low for me. I also get ferociously hungry nearly immediately rather than waiting a few days like some. I eat ~5,000 calories a day and it normally takes more than 2 lbs per day and I still lose weight. I am 6'1" 185 and young.

BrianLe
03-15-2012, 21:28
You'll figure out what and how much to carry as you go, and as most do, you'll likely bring too much to start with to feel safe.

I think that what's normal for thru-hikers is to run a net calorie deficit on the trail and try to make up for that as much as possible in trail towns. It's one reason to go ahead and take that zero or nero: to have time to process some food, to literally fatten yourself up as much as you can without becoming (too) ill.

JAK
03-15-2012, 22:07
I think that does make sense to feast and crash once a week on a nero or zero. Seems natural.

I think this not only replenishes some fat reserves for those that are lean, but also to allow the body to more completely top up the glycogen reserves, and perhaps protien reserves also. I am not exactly sure if protien reserves are the right term. The body has some amino acids floating around all the time, but I think in addition to that it might naturally make muscle and organ tissue a little overbuilt when it has an opportunity to do so, and this sort of acts as a protien reserve if you can call it that. Anyhow, the question is whether it might be better to eat and hike at a more steady constant daily rate, or perhaps more intermittently with a nero or zero once a week. I think its somewhat debateable, whether to hike say 6 x 21 miles per day plus a day of rest or 7 x 18 miles without the day of rest. For record setting probably not, but I think other than that it would be good to have a day of partial or full rest, combined with as much feasting as is neccessary to replenish whatever reserves need replenishing.

NeanderJoel
03-15-2012, 22:14
This page gives you some idea of how many calories you will need for hiking: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html

JAK
03-15-2012, 22:31
I think when lean and mean you need 10% protien, 30% carbs, and 50% fat, and the other 10% can be any of the above. When you have excess fat you can reduce the fat in your diet, up to perhaps 36 Calories for every pound of body fat you have. The more fat you have the more you are able to burn, as long as you are doing the work. So if I have 50 pounds of body fat, I can reduce my dietary fat by 1800 Calories per day, so if I am burning 5400 Calories per day, that would be a reduction of 33%. But protien and carb requirements would remain the same, so of the 3600 calories, protien would become 15-20%, carbs would become 45-50%, and fats would be reduced to 20-30%. So as you get leaner you simple add more fat to the diet while keeping protien and carbs more or less constant. I still think neros or zeros once a week are probably a good thing, even while deliberately losing weight, just so the body can stay on top of its repairs.

JAK
03-15-2012, 22:45
This page gives you some idea of how many calories you will need for hiking: http://www.exrx.net/Calculators/CalRequire.html
Good stuff there.
I typed in 210 pounds and 30% fat and got a BMR of 1813 which is about right.
I typed in 10 rest, 2 very light, 4 light, 4 moderate, 4 heavy, and got 5363, which is about right.

I think I could burn 7000 per day, but I don't think I could maintain it until I get in better shape, and at my age, 50, I am still not sure I could maintain it because I need more time to recover than I used to. Not sure if that might improve with fitness. To some extent maybe, but I think as you get older you naturally have less repair mechanisms, like stem cells, and hormones. Also, being more injury prone slows you down.

I definitely want to get in shape to see what I can do, per day and per week and beyond. Turning 50. Hiking and paddling is how I intend to do it, plus some moderate strength training. Some trail running also as I get the weight down.

JAK
03-15-2012, 23:02
A heart rate monitor is a good way to measure calories per hour for things like hiking. You can calibrate your calories for a given heart rate using things like walking and running on flat terrain, and then apply those numbers to whatever your heart rate is while hiking.

My resting heart rate is about 55 bpm.
My maximum heart rate is about 185 bpm.
I can maintain about 165 bpm on a 1 hour run.
I can double my duration for every 10 bpm I slow down.
So I might go about 8 hours at 135 bpm, but it more comfortable averaging about 120 bpm.
Walking on level ground is about 90-100 for me, but hiking with hills averages about 120.

At 165 I burn about 1000 calories per hour. At 120 its about 600 per hour. Rest is about 75.
So with those numbers its about 8x600 + 8x75 + 8x100 = 6200 Calories per day.

I am a fairly large guy, with a good set of lungs, so my potential Calories per day is high, but my conditioning especially for ultra-distance is much more limited. That is why I don't think I can maintain even 6000 Calories per day, because if I could do that then the real ultradistance folks must be doing 12000 or more, even accounting for their lighter weight, and I don't think even they go that high.

JAK
03-15-2012, 23:32
I think the 10% rule of increasing weekly mileage that they suggest as a guideline for running is probably a good thing to apply to thru-hiking, unless you are one of those few already in top ultra-distance condition.

One way to apply it, rather than mileage, might be calories per day. So if I think you might ultimately achieve the ability to burn 7200 Calories per day through distance hiking, i.e. 1800 base plus 5400, then I might start at 1800 plus 2700 and increase by about 300 per day each week. I can also reduce the food I eat initially by the body fat I am burning, by about 360 calories for every 10 pounds of body fat. So I might start off on 3000 calories per day in food, burning 4500 Calories, 35 pounds overweight, and by week 10 I might be down to 10 pounds overweight, burning 7200 Calories, and eating about 7000 per day by then. So I don't think eating enough food becomes a serious problem until you get your weight down and your mileage up. For some that might some in week 1 or 2, for myself perhaps week 10-12, and for others it might be week 15-20, closer to the end of the trail. Your mileage, and calories, may vary.

JAK
03-15-2012, 23:35
That's the idea. To lose weight,go hiking. To be healthy,go hiking. To love yourself,go hiking.... and when in doubt, go hiking.

Derek81pci
03-16-2012, 16:57
I'm 6'0, 156 lbs now. I'm not worried about coming out physically fit, as I already am very fit. I will have very few zero days, or so I think now. I love nuts and dried friut but don't want to totally burn out on them. I hate junk food but I'm sure I'll learn to like it. As of now, I eat mostly white meat and veggies, not a total health nut, but not far from. If anyone is familiar with stage 2 of phase 2 from P90X... that will probably be my diet, if I can keep up on the protiens, and add a whole bunch more calories. Thank God for protien powder mail drops.