PDA

View Full Version : Yep GA bears are nailing food bags



Pages : [1] 2

Blissful
03-18-2012, 22:56
Well despite the rules telling hikers they must have bear canisters in the Blood Mtn area, thru hikers are ignoring it and bears are taking food bags. Just saw a post by a thru hiking group from yesterday on Facebook of hikers who had a bag taken. What is it gonna take for people to cooperate so this issue is resolved?

stranger
03-19-2012, 07:20
Learn to hang your food bag, it's not that hard. In 2008 everyone around Walnut Mountain got their food nailed by bears except us, just need to know the PCT Method and pick a good branch.

Seriously though, how many prospective thru-hikers leaving Springer can hang a food bag? I would say 1 in 10, they should either have a no camping zone or reroute the trail around Blood Mountain entirely, very overrated mountain in my view.

STINGER1
03-19-2012, 07:40
I'm almost done with the Pinhoti trail and headed for springer mt for the AT. Just sent my bear bagging line and carabiner home. Oops. Guess my food is going in my tent as usual.

bamboo bob
03-19-2012, 10:28
Has any bear gone into a tent for food this year? It would surprise me if they did. I think they rely on seeing those colored bags hanging in trees that look like some kind of fruit and then find out that they are even better than fruit with a lot of variety on the menu. The counter balance method works well but really the in tent method works well too. Especially if other people hang their food to keep the bears occupied. I'll find out Friday.

ScottP
03-19-2012, 10:53
Pretty sure the law in this short section is the way to go.

If the bears have lost their fear of humans then
1. don't camp there
or
2. be prepared for bears that have no fears of humans

bear bagging and putting your food in the tent are solutions for bears that are afraid of people. Not these things.

max patch
03-19-2012, 11:01
they should either have a no camping zone or reroute the trail around Blood Mountain entirely, very overrated mountain in my view.

the locals disagree with you as neels gap to blood mtn is easily the most hiked section of the trail in georgia.

STINGER1
03-19-2012, 11:38
Bear canisters required? Dint even know the AT had such laws. From springer to neels gap, 30 miles? Carry a canister for a 2 days....LOL! I just don't see anybody starting the AT with an extra 2 pounds of canister just to carry it for a couple days. Not to mention the cost.

max patch
03-19-2012, 11:55
Required only on a 5 mile section and only if you plan on camping there overnight. Just don't camp in that section.

WingedMonkey
03-19-2012, 12:04
The next move by the Forest Service will be to just close that section to ALL camping.

ChinMusic
03-19-2012, 12:05
Hanging is the problem folks. Hanging kills bears.

And I am lumping in proper hanging with substandard, since that is the reality.

turtle fast
03-19-2012, 13:17
I would not want to be the one who puts the noose on the bear...how do you get them to stand on the trapdoor with the noose around its neck? ;) Oh, wait an improperly hanging food bag to distract them. Is this a case where bear poles will be constructed or bear lockers.

timmy_toes
03-19-2012, 14:07
I was talking to an employee at REI who was attacked by a bear for sleeping with his food he manged to survive but lost his food. I couldn't believe this! I had more faith in people hiking the AT with experience of hanging there food. Cant wait to get out there and help people out!

RWheeler
03-19-2012, 14:31
I'm not gonna be on the trail for another month, but I'm definitely going to be hanging my food at night. I'm curious to see what kind of activity there will be once I'm out there though, if people keep being irresponsible and reinforcing bear presence.

ScottP
03-19-2012, 14:37
Hanging is the problem folks. Hanging kills bears.

And I am lumping in proper hanging with substandard, since that is the reality.

^^that is why hanging food is already illegal in a few spot. In 10-15 years it might well be illegal everywhere.

mgeiger
03-19-2012, 16:38
Link to the Facebook page? Need more info, not another bear canister thread.

ChinMusic
03-19-2012, 16:53
^^that is why hanging food is already illegal in a few spot. In 10-15 years it might well be illegal everywhere.

It is just impossible to make everyone hang properly. Heck, even cables strung by professionals are being compromised in places.

It is my strong opinion that hanging (and food left unattended) is the crux of nearly ALL of the bear problems.

I sleep with my food on the AT, and sleep well. YMMV

bamboo bob
03-19-2012, 18:34
I was talking to an employee at REI who was attacked by a bear for sleeping with his food he manged to survive but lost his food. I couldn't believe this! I had more faith in people hiking the AT with experience of hanging there food. Cant wait to get out there and help people out!
I would like to hear the details of this bear in the tent food grab. Who did you talk to? What REI and where was he camped. Gizzly in Alaska or Black bear at a car camping spot. More detail please.

ChinMusic
03-19-2012, 18:36
I would like to hear the details of this bear in the tent food grab. Who did you talk to? What REI and where was he camped. Gizzly in Alaska or Black bear at a car camping spot. More detail please.
Yeppers, BIG difference.

Toli
03-19-2012, 18:43
Learn to hang your food bag, it's not that hard. In 2008 everyone around Walnut Mountain got their food nailed by bears except us, just need to know the PCT Method and pick a good branch.

Seriously though, how many prospective thru-hikers leaving Springer can hang a food bag? I would say 1 in 10, they should either have a no camping zone or reroute the trail around Blood Mountain entirely, very overrated mountain in my view.

Seriously tho... Reroute Blood Mountain???
the locals disagree with you as neels gap to blood mtn is easily the most hiked section of the trail in georgia.
The irony is you don't live here... You don't hike here on a weekly basis... You just run ur mouth, opps, view... I don't even know MaxPatch, but that is spot on... Its a 5 mile section people... Even if they close it, like they have before, its 10 miles thru... 2 years in a row you have been able to harvest 2 bears during hunting season... Maybe the prob is not with the 1 in 10 that can't hang a bear bag, its with the 1 in 10 bad hunters... You get that "Elf" :D...

FWIW... I can walk out my door, up the ridge and be on Blood Mountain in 20 minutes... seen lotsa bears... Still got my Z-Pack and all my grub... Just sayin'...

vamelungeon
03-19-2012, 18:43
I would like to hear the details of this bear in the tent food grab. Who did you talk to? What REI and where was he camped. Gizzly in Alaska or Black bear at a car camping spot. More detail please.

Me three. Details.

leaftye
03-19-2012, 19:05
Sounds like a prime opportunity to get free hiker food.

Spokes
03-19-2012, 19:34
That bear was stealing food bags (even when hung) in the same area when I thru hiked way back in 2009.

Lone Wolf
03-19-2012, 20:30
I had more faith in people hiking the AT with experience of hanging there food. Cant wait to get out there and help people out!

i've only done 5 thru-hikes and 6000 other miles of sections. always slept with my food in the tent. i need help.

rocketsocks
03-19-2012, 20:58
i've only done 5 thru-hikes and 6000 other miles of sections. always slept with my food in the tent. i need help.Clearly,the bears don't even want what's on "your" menu.....Now drop and do another thru-hike.;):)

rocketsocks
03-19-2012, 21:00
Clearly,the bears don't even want what's on "your" menu.....Now drop and do another thru-hike.;):)Maybe carry some pop-tarts sometime.:D

Blissful
03-19-2012, 21:05
Link to the Facebook page? Need more info, not another bear canister thread.



https://www.facebook.com/pages/Rainh2os-2012-APPALACHIAN-TRAIL-THRU-HIKE/180547586481?ref=ts

Blissful
03-19-2012, 21:07
i've only done 5 thru-hikes and 6000 other miles of sections. always slept with my food in the tent. i need help.

LW the bears were nicer back then...they let you do what you want.

They are nasty now....

:D

Though didn't someone report here (or somewhere) that the guys who hung their food got nailed but he slept with his and was fine?

Sarcasm the elf
03-19-2012, 21:53
Not being familiar with the Georgia section of trail, I have to ask:

Have they thought about installing steel bear boxes at the shelters and popular camp sites in this area? I've sectioned NJ, NY, CT and MA so far, and most official sites have some sort of steel box or vault to store your food, it seems to solve this issue rather effectively. Is there a reason that this hasn't been tried, or for that matter, has it been tried in the past?

Lone Wolf
03-19-2012, 21:55
Not being familiar with the Georgia section of trail, I have to ask:

Have they thought about installing steel bear boxes at the shelters and popular camp sites in this area?

problem solved....

Jack Tarlin
03-19-2012, 22:58
There are no plans at present to install bear boxes here; I suspect there is no money to pay for this, tho I think it's a good idea. As Max Patch and others have pointed out, when it comes to bears, when one knows that a particular area has a known or proven problem when it comes to overnighting, the answer is simple.......don't overnight there. This is not rocketry or anything difficult, people, it's sorta straightforward for anyone with something resembling a brain.

moongoddess
03-20-2012, 00:47
That's what it's going to take - no camping away from designated camp sites allowed, and hikers required to store all food in the supplied steel bear boxes at each site. Bears can learn to defeat just about any bear hang given enough motivation and practice, and too many people won't carry canisters even if they're officially required to do so.

Not Sunshine
03-20-2012, 00:53
The next move by the Forest Service will be to just close that section to ALL camping.

Why don't they just install bear cables like they do in the smokies??

tucker0104
03-20-2012, 01:29
I will hide it under my butt.

Big Dawg
03-20-2012, 01:30
I love snuggling w/ my food at night. Any critter/animal that gets a whiff of my stinky ass, and hears my loud rumbling snorrrrr must turn around and high-tail it the other way, cause I ain't never had a problem. Plus, sometimes I like a midnight snack!!

stranger
03-20-2012, 03:35
Pretty sure the law in this short section is the way to go.

If the bears have lost their fear of humans then
1. don't camp there
or
2. be prepared for bears that have no fears of humans

bear bagging and putting your food in the tent are solutions for bears that are afraid of people. Not these things.

Throw a firecracker near a bear and it will become afraid of humans, trust me

stranger
03-20-2012, 03:43
Seriously tho... Reroute Blood Mountain???
the locals disagree with you as neels gap to blood mtn is easily the most hiked section of the trail in georgia.
The irony is you don't live here... You don't hike here on a weekly basis... You just run ur mouth, opps, view... I don't even know MaxPatch, but that is spot on... Its a 5 mile section people... Even if they close it, like they have before, its 10 miles thru... 2 years in a row you have been able to harvest 2 bears during hunting season... Maybe the prob is not with the 1 in 10 that can't hang a bear bag, its with the 1 in 10 bad hunters... You get that "Elf" :D...

FWIW... I can walk out my door, up the ridge and be on Blood Mountain in 20 minutes... seen lotsa bears... Still got my Z-Pack and all my grub... Just sayin'...

Ummm...really? Are you offended that I suggested a re-route?

You are right, I don't live there - I don't live in most places but I can still have an opinion if I've been there.

And of course this is the most travelled section of trail in GA, hence there is a bear problem. Do you like to state the glaring obvious?

jeffmeh
03-20-2012, 08:33
Out of curiosity, is there any documented case where a bear really defeated a proper PCT style hang?

ScottP
03-20-2012, 09:24
Out of curiosity, is there any documented case where a bear really defeated a proper PCT style hang?


Yeah. They learn to shake the ropes.

jeffmeh
03-20-2012, 09:42
Yeah. They learn to shake the ropes.

Please point me to a documented case. Shaking the rope would not seem to defeat a proper hang.

nufsaid
03-20-2012, 09:46
required only on a 5 mile section and only if you plan on camping there overnight. Just don't camp in that section.

bingo!!!!!

rhjanes
03-20-2012, 09:52
Bears have horrible eye-sight. they find the bags by smell. But they are also bright and habbit prone, just like us. I read a report where the game warden had tracked some bears at a section. The bears know the hanging things that smell good are food. They also remembered when those bags were in the trees and would go on raids. A few months later and the bear had moved back to some other area where they knew to find food.

nufsaid
03-20-2012, 09:53
Not being familiar with the Georgia section of trail, I have to ask:

Have they thought about installing steel bear boxes at the shelters and popular camp sites in this area? I've sectioned NJ, NY, CT and MA so far, and most official sites have some sort of steel box or vault to store your food, it seems to solve this issue rather effectively. Is there a reason that this hasn't been tried, or for that matter, has it been tried in the past?

I support relocating the problem bears up North since you guys have all the answers to bear issues.

nufsaid
03-20-2012, 09:57
Throw a firecracker near a bear and it will become afraid of humans, trust me

Actually, a better solution is to allow bear hunts.

Sarcasm the elf
03-20-2012, 10:27
Appreciate the offer, but we already have enough. If you're interested, we'd be willing to trade you a pound of deer ticks for each pound of bear you send up. :rolleyes:

Elder
03-20-2012, 10:35
Actually, a better solution is to allow bear hunts.

Actually, they do hunt bears in that area of GA. One more reason a bear fed is a bear dead.

nufsaid
03-20-2012, 10:40
Appreciate the offer, but we already have enough. If you're interested, we'd be willing to trade you a pound of deer ticks for each pound of bear you send up.

No thanks. But if we can trade one lawyer for one of your deer ticks we may be able to make a deal.

RWheeler
03-20-2012, 10:50
I'm with the other poster about PCT. I don't see it as something that bears can simply "wiggle the rope" for and make the bag drop if it's rigged up right. Maybe it's because my climbing background has always made me tie back-up knots that I've never had a hitch fail while tying a PCT hang... but... they're rugged, reliable, and crazy simple.

Maren
03-20-2012, 10:54
I came to this site for the information; I stayed for the snark.

paradoxb3
03-20-2012, 12:53
I'm with the other poster about PCT. I don't see it as something that bears can simply "wiggle the rope" for and make the bag drop if it's rigged up right. Maybe it's because my climbing background has always made me tie back-up knots that I've never had a hitch fail while tying a PCT hang... but... they're rugged, reliable, and crazy simple.

i'm with you that a good PCT hang is the best hang... though i could see the point of failure being not the hitch, but the rope itsself. in a few minutes a persistent bear (and they ARE persistent) could pull on it enough to eventually wear the rope in two at the branch. it could depend alot on the friction with the tree limb, and the type of rope used, but i could see it happening.

Montana AT05
03-20-2012, 13:52
The only decent food bag hangs I've seen are the pre-installed cable hangs. Normal hiker hangs, including my own, are useless and are in fact much more like tempting a bear like the Jolly Red Button tempts Stimpson J. Cat.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jjN-H62U64

As a thru hiker just don't camp near there, try to plan your hike to arrive at Neels Gap during the day. And expecting a thru hiker to invest in and carry for only 10 or so miles, a bear canister, is silly. I can see requiring them for over-nights in the local area (but it still annoys me and reeks of California nannies come to Georgia).

Pack your food in odor proof alo-saks or similar products.

Just say no to the Jolly Red Button.

Two Speed
03-20-2012, 13:56
I came to this site for the information; I stayed for the snark.:welcome

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 10 characters.

ScottP
03-20-2012, 15:07
from what I know the bears in the smokies kept learning to get food from the cable systems there.

Plenty of examples of them breaking into cars

I'm sure that a properly hung bag won't get taken by a wild bear. But a bear that's learned to take improperly hung bags can probably figure out how to get properly hung bags.

Either way properly hung bags are the exception, not the rule.

rocketsocks
03-20-2012, 15:54
I came to this site for the information; I stayed for the snark.That's Awsome +1

Hawkwind61
03-20-2012, 16:39
i came to this site for the information; i stayed for the snark.

x2......... :)

soilman
03-20-2012, 17:31
Bears were a problem in this area in 2010. I read of reports in trail register at Woods Hole shelter of bears climbing trees and getting food bags. That same night I camped at Slaughter Creek and lost my food to a bear. I hung in the classic style about 20 feet off the ground and 10 feet from trunk. The bear just broke the cord. I soon learned of the PCT method and used that the rest of my thru and had no problem. I ran into the ridge runner the next day at Neels Gap and he said the bears were getting to be a nuisance in this area. They were shaking cables at shelters trying to get bags loose. Bear boxes would be effective but there probable would not be enough room for all the hikers that come thru in March and April. Some of the cable systems were so taxed by food bags that there wasn't enough hooks. I ran into one hike who thumped a bear one night who came up to the Low Gap shelter. I also heard some anecdotal evidence of bears going into tents in the Smokies after food.

Pony
03-20-2012, 17:44
I was talking to an employee at REI who was attacked by a bear for sleeping with his food he manged to survive but lost his food. I couldn't believe this! I had more faith in people hiking the AT with experience of hanging there food. Cant wait to get out there and help people out!

Did they try to sell you a canister or Ursack after this story? Sounds like a sales pitch to me.

MuddyWaters
03-20-2012, 18:23
Unfortunately bear boxes will become garbage cans by the actions of a few. It isnt a state park where someone pays to keep them clean.

Unfortunately, good hanging is not easy.

Forget about cables attached to wood poles or trees, small bears can slide down cables and drop onto the bags, ripping them down, or at least open and dropping contents.

cables need to be attached to steel pipe that bears cannot climb. Or hang on hooks on a steel pole, but then need a hanging pole which will probably walk away one day.

Havent seen a bear yet climb a 2-3" steel pipe

P-Train
03-20-2012, 18:34
Check out these Smoky Mountain still pics starting about 1:25

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmLDXsIZsGg

The bear knows what's there but can't manage the cables. Beautiful bear by the way. Nice video.

stranger
03-20-2012, 19:09
Out of curiosity, is there any documented case where a bear really defeated a proper PCT style hang?

I've seen a PCT fail but it wasn't due to the method, they chose a terrible branch. The bear simply ripped the branch off the tree and the food bag was in the middle of the trail with the branch laying next to it.

The only way I can see a bear busting the PCT method is being able to get to the rope on the branch itself, and cutting it at the limb, being able to reach the bag from the main trunk of the tree, or ripping the branch off the tree.

The whole point of the PCT method is that there is no tension on the rope dangling, even if the bear figured out how to pull on the rope, it would also have to figure out that the stick was holding it up, and would have to hoist, then drop, dozens of times in an attempt to break the stick. With a good sized stick, this wouldn't happen. Also a clove hitch gets tighter under stress, again the knot shouldn't fail.

I don't see this happening anytime soon, perhaps one day.

Bear boxes are good ideas, but they do end up being rubbish bins and mice love em!

jeffmeh
03-20-2012, 19:32
I've seen a PCT fail but it wasn't due to the method, they chose a terrible branch. The bear simply ripped the branch off the tree and the food bag was in the middle of the trail with the branch laying next to it.

The only way I can see a bear busting the PCT method is being able to get to the rope on the branch itself, and cutting it at the limb, being able to reach the bag from the main trunk of the tree, or ripping the branch off the tree.

The whole point of the PCT method is that there is no tension on the rope dangling, even if the bear figured out how to pull on the rope, it would also have to figure out that the stick was holding it up, and would have to hoist, then drop, dozens of times in an attempt to break the stick. With a good sized stick, this wouldn't happen. Also a clove hitch gets tighter under stress, again the knot shouldn't fail.

I don't see this happening anytime soon, perhaps one day.

Bear boxes are good ideas, but they do end up being rubbish bins and mice love em!

Yes, I don't expect that a proper PCT hang will be defeated by a bear. That said, certainly there are hikers who employ bad techniques, landscapes with few good branch candidates, etc.

Lyte-w8-hyker
03-20-2012, 20:11
Now I'm kinda worried, I've used the pct method for a long time but more for racoons than bears in SW Arkansas. Does this include the entire GA section or mainly the 5 mile bear canister area

1234
03-20-2012, 20:35
Why don't they just install bear cables like they do in the smokies??

All the Georgia shelters have very nice cable systems, but the bears know where they are and I have watched one mosey up to the cable and stand up and hit the cables. Sure enough one food bag bounced off the hook. Perhaps replace the open hooks with ones that have a spring lever that closes. Or post a sign, oh my another sign, that explains how to "wrap" your food bag around the hook so it is not so easy to come off the hook.

Bucketfoot
03-20-2012, 21:41
GA. bear hunters where are you? In Pennsylvania this problem would have been taken care of last November. I'm also one of those that likes to keep my food next to me in the tent I would be leary of doing this in the Smokies or the Blood Mtn. area though. I will be hiking through the Blood Mtn area this spring and I for sure do not plan on camping or staying at a shelter there. Bears that have lost their fear of humans are more dangerous. Just what is a PCT style food bag hang?

jeffmeh
03-20-2012, 21:57
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qgBLDMuPuvE

PCT Method

The Wizard
03-20-2012, 22:16
Is it legal to shoot the bears?

wornoutboots
03-20-2012, 23:14
I talked to little bear at Soruck this year & he said a bear tore a hole in a tent at Watauga Lake shelter in the night & grabbed a food bag right out of it. He said they were terrified & hiked back to the car shortly afterwards & the bear folllwed them all the way to the car. If you sleep with your food, you have bigger stones than I!

STICK
03-20-2012, 23:30
I always use a carabiner to also clip my food bag to the cable system. This way if the bag gets knocked off of the hook then the carabiner will still catch the bag and hold it in place.

This is also one reason why I would like to leave a little earlier in the year than most of the other thru's...maybe the bears would not be as stirred up earlier since enough hikers haven't come thru yet...so maybe like mid February...

bflorac
03-20-2012, 23:52
I have had first hand experience with a bear that had no fear of humans. He would actually come running toward you. Scares **** out of you! We slept in shelter with cage on it (otherwise I would have hiked another 10 miles down the trail). He sat 10' outside the shelter all night watching us. I even hit him with a 4" rock he just looked at me. We slid out in the AM when he had wondered off for a short duration. Of course he got used to someone feed him at the shelter which is a really BAD idea. Rangers have indicated that hikers have put food in the shelter and actually trapped the bears inside. Also a stupid idea. So, there are bears like this out there like this. I am 100% sure that if I had my food in a tent, he would have had no issue in tearing it open and taking the food. I also know someone who had there food taken by a bear as they put it down and stepped over to unhook the bear cable. I always hang my food (and garbage), away from my camping place (or shelter) with few exceptions. I have also been known to hang my entire pack if there are known bears in the area. I have never heard of anyone being attacked while the bear knocked there food off the cable. My safety comes first. I can get new food. For anyone to suggest a different solution other than hanging is just bad advice (unless you hang a real bear canister).

While you are at it, keep your pack clean and open all pockets to keep mice from eating thru.

Big Dawg
03-21-2012, 00:09
I talked to little bear at Soruck this year & he said a bear tore a hole in a tent at Watauga Lake shelter in the night & grabbed a food bag right out of it. He said they were terrified & hiked back to the car shortly afterwards & the bear folllwed them all the way to the car. If you sleep with your food, you have bigger stones than I!

From what I remember about this story, the area was a problem b/c of dumpsters or trash cans in the area, w/ trash strewn around. The area is close to a parking lot where daytime visitors aren't as careful w/ properly disposing of trash. Hence the bear is taking advantage of a badly managed trash area. I usually avoid these types of areas while camping, so as to not become a statistic.

and yes,,, my "stones" are rather large!!:D

Dances with Mice
03-21-2012, 09:12
First the bears on Springer learned that if they just kept hitting and batting the cable tie-out ends then often food will just fall out of the sky. A big problem, and I'm not kidding here, is that a lot of hikers will hang their food in plastic grocery store bags. Another is that they'll just loop the end of their drawstring cord over a hook. When the cable starts bouncing the food starts falling.

Then a couple years later the bears at Hawk Mtn started using the same technique. Same bears or bear family? Who knows, but I think that in winter when we believe they are hibernating they are actually in Florida attending bear conventions with seminars like "Defeating Cable Systems".

Hunting is a problem on Blood because it's not a good place to hunt. Even during hunting season there can be a lot of people up there. And when the weather warms and the natural food supply gets more plentiful, the bears move off the mountain. By the time hunting season starts the bears aren't a problem because a lot of them have already started driving to Florida. Don't believe me? Watch:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=COAUMy_5r0w

Jim Adams
03-21-2012, 12:01
There is no bear problem...there is a people problem. I have traveled by foot, canoe, bicycle and motorcycle and camped in bear country for 38 years and have NEVER had a bear encounter due to food related problems. People wouldn't think of going winter camping w/o a proper sleeping bag. People carry on huge and lengthly debates about light weight backpacking but yet no one ever worries about things like first aid, or wilderness living / survival. Either learn to do it right or don't go.....this is a people problem!

geek

Razor
03-21-2012, 12:55
Yes--- if you hang properly on the perfect limb there will not be a problem. In Georgia about 85-90 % of the bear hangs you see are not adequate. Between new hikers and lazy ones ,the bears are taught every year how to get easy food. This is why every one is presented the choice of walking through the 5 mile section or carrying the bear can. It is a simple choice that one can make. AS long as people teach animals there is a learning curve and the animals will be more aggressive. There is documentation that bears entered shelters last year and have escalated their behavior. The forest service is only trying to protect the idiots and those of us who would be the unfortunate first incident of a bear attack in Georgia . Walk the 5 mile section and man up!( or woman up).

mad4scrapping
03-21-2012, 14:23
When you say that the bear bags are often not hung properly, what does that mean? Does it mean that the bag is not hung high enough, or not hung far enough away from the tree trunk, or something else? I'm curious because I want to make sure I hang mine properly. I practice in my backyard, much to the amusement of my neighbors. But I don't care what they think anyway.

Don H
03-22-2012, 05:59
My food storage system works every time and has never been defeated.
Here's how I protect my food at night;
1. Take smelly pack in to tent.
2. Place food bag on to of smelly pack.
3. Place smelly clothes on top of food bag.

Note that this only works for hikers with some trail miles behind them, fresh smelling weekenders and section hikers should not attempt this.

JAK
03-22-2012, 06:05
My food storage system works every time and has never been defeated.
Here's how I protect my food at night;
1. Take smelly pack in to tent.
2. Place food bag on to of smelly pack.
3. Place smelly clothes on top of food bag.

Note that this only works for hikers with some trail miles behind them, fresh smelling weekenders and section hikers should not attempt this.Also step 4, implied, but most important...
4. Place smelly hiker inside tent.

I support this method myself, for men, but not for children.
It allows us to sort of act as cathodic protection, if neccessary.

colonel r
03-22-2012, 08:06
I think we need a different approach. Instead of hanging food why not hang the bears, by the hind legs of course and release them the next AM. Finally find out how strong the Amsteel Blue really is.

Just saying.

Two Speed
03-22-2012, 09:00
. . . every one is presented the choice of walking through the 5 mile section or carrying the bear can . . . Why do something simple like hiking through a 5 mile section when you can have endless drama instead?

Gotta admit I'm highly tempted to take a short hike into that area, eat the last of my food before going to bed and then sit up just to watch the fun.

About_Time
03-22-2012, 09:28
When you say that the bear bags are often not hung properly, what does that mean? Does it mean that the bag is not hung high enough, or not hung far enough away from the tree trunk, or something else? I'm curious because I want to make sure I hang mine properly. I practice in my backyard, much to the amusement of my neighbors. But I don't care what they think anyway.

Depending on where you read the recommendations you'll find 8-10 feet off the ground and 4-6 feet away from the tree. I found that the problem wasn't technique, but rather finding a proper branch. I'd recommend using the cables in shelters in Georgia. If the cables have only hooks then use a carabiner to connect to the cable above the hook.

When I couldn't find a proper branch, I'd end up sleeping with my food. That wasn't my preference, but simply giving it away with a bad hang seemed really stupid.

Lone Wolf
03-22-2012, 09:36
Why do something simple like hiking through a 5 mile section when you can have endless drama instead?

Gotta admit I'm highly tempted to take a short hike into that area, eat the last of my food before going to bed and then sit up just to watch the fun.

i'm gonna do the same but i'm gonna have a bucket of chicken and beer in my tent and watch

flemdawg1
03-22-2012, 11:22
The Blood Mtn Bear had learned how to defeat the bear cables and also knew how to climb out on the branch and pull up the bags (defeating the PCT method).

I simply hiked thru that area last April, staying at Neels Gap.

Two Speed
03-22-2012, 12:20
IIRC there's a bear or two raising a little hell around Walnut Mountain, close to Max Patch. Anyone know if that animal is still causing drama?

lemon b
03-22-2012, 12:26
Only time I've ever had issue with a Black Bear is when one came into camp and went right for the Yukon Jack. Chugged it on the spot and was gone. All inside of 10 seconds. Couldn't stop laughing.

Elder
03-22-2012, 17:01
Only time I've ever had issue with a Black Bear is when one came into camp and went right for the Yukon Jack. Chugged it on the spot and was gone. All inside of 10 seconds. Couldn't stop laughing.
Did it by chance have a Bill Bryson is a Candy ass T-shirt on?

stranger
03-24-2012, 09:56
When you say that the bear bags are often not hung properly, what does that mean? Does it mean that the bag is not hung high enough, or not hung far enough away from the tree trunk, or something else? I'm curious because I want to make sure I hang mine properly. I practice in my backyard, much to the amusement of my neighbors. But I don't care what they think anyway.

A bear cannot get your food if you use the PCT Method and choose a good branch:
- the branch should extend out far from the tree, preferably not level, a slight incline (will bend less under stress)
- branch needs to be strong enough to resist a bear ripping it off the tree, weak enough not to support a bear's weight
- you want a branch that is atleast 12-13 feet high because with the PCT Method the food bag sits at HALF the distance between the limb height and the stick location on the line...meaning if you tie the stick at 6 feet on a 12 foot branch, the bag hangs at 9 feet, and remember the bag 'hangs' from the 9ft mark, so if the bag is 18 inches long, the bottom of the bag will be 7.5 feet off the ground

A bad hang would be using the tie off method, where the bear can find the cord being tied off and cut it. The tie-off method works best on a steep hillside, walk down hill, find a good branch, then run the cord as high up the hillside as possible, so when the bear looks for the cord, it's tied off well away and run nearly level from the branch to a limb up higher on the hill...but seriously, the PCT Method is super easy, just confusing until you see it. Someone posted a link on here for a youtube video

stranger
03-24-2012, 10:00
Forgot...a bad branch is one a bear can walk on, or very flimsy so a bear can tear it off, or too close to the tree and the bear can reach the food bag from the main trunk, etc...

stranger
03-24-2012, 10:06
Actually, a better solution is to allow bear hunts.

Yeah...I'm not advocating throwing firecrackers at bears, I was just stating that is will scare the bear off cause I've seen it happen.

Snowleopard
03-24-2012, 11:39
A bear cannot get your food if you use the PCT Method and choose a good branch: ...


Who knows, but I think that in winter when we believe they are hibernating they are actually in Florida attending bear conventions with seminars like "Defeating Cable Systems".
Maybe a proper PCT hang will still work in GA, but in other places it won't. I think they are trained to defeat the PCT and counterbalance methods by sending a cub out on a branch and dive bombing the bag or chewing through or breaking the branch. Bears in parts of the Sierras have learned how to get the food from proper PCT hang.

"I haven't personally lost food using the PCT method... mostly because I use a canister :-) I have been with or near groups that lost food using the PCT method. The combination of strong jaws and acrobatic cubs can defeat any hanging method if the bears are sufficiently motivated and given enough time. That means being alert enough to know the bears are around and then getting up to defend your food and drive the bears away. Sometimes though, even noise and thrown rocks will not deter a bear. In these cases, the bear will eat your hung food."
​Mark Verber, http://www.backpackinglight.com/cgi-bin/backpackinglight/forums/thread_display.html?forum_thread_id=22382&nid=180785&print=1


In the Adirondacks I'm not sure if the bears learned to defeat the PCT method, but the the state decided that bears were getting hung food so often that there were too many aggressive bear-human interactions. Canisters are now required in parts of the ADK.

STICK
03-24-2012, 22:10
Sounds like we just need to bite the bullet and start living with a bear canister then...

ChinMusic
03-24-2012, 22:17
Sounds like we just need to bite the bullet and start living with a bear canister then...

Maybe...........if boxes are not going to be present and you are not willing to attend your food at all times.

johnnybgood
03-24-2012, 23:51
Seems to me one could simply avoid Blood Mountain by hiking past the "bear canister" area even if it means hiking after dark ?

Sarcasm the elf
03-25-2012, 00:06
Seems to me one could simply avoid Blood Mountain by hiking past the "bear canister" area even if it means hiking after dark ?
All these bear boxes in the north east sure are nice...just sayin...

stranger
03-25-2012, 03:13
I think bears in Georgia are a long ways off defeating the PCT method, but yes...in theory a cub might be able to be sent out and chew through the branch.

Amazing creatures they are!

judypudy
03-25-2012, 09:22
I was at the Blood Mountain shelter in 2010 and the shelter register had one of my favorite register entries "there is definitely a douchebag bear hanging around this shelter". Maybe I'm not remembering it right, but it seemed there was rhododendron bushes, and exposed rock, but no trees.

So all these posts about the PCT hang seems pointless in an area with no trees.

The scary thing was that when I got there, a Boy Scout troop was just arriving and was planning to spend the night. I kept going, but I don't know what the troop leaders were going to do with their big group. Seems like a camping ban on Blood Mountain would be the best solution.

Frog
03-25-2012, 15:17
If you don.t want to spend the money for the bear canister then you should just hike this section and keep going. It has been a problem for a couple of years now and is getting worse. Unfortunately people are sloppy at camp and the bears are now use to free human food.
If they are this bold now they want stop at ripping a tent open and getting what they want. I have seen one go in a car after a cooler and the bear won.

Jim Adams
03-25-2012, 16:01
....what does this say about our society when the bear is smarter than most humans?..LOLOLOL. Common sense used to be a natural ability that could be made stronger with wisdom and experience....seems like that has all gone out the window since " I shoot my gun sideway!" LOLOL....come on people...YOU CAN'T REALLY BE THIS STUPID!

geek

Tinker
03-25-2012, 16:42
I think bears in Georgia are a long ways off defeating the PCT method, but yes...in theory a cub might be able to be sent out and chew through the branch.

Amazing creatures they are!

I think that they could figure out that chewing through the cord would be easier than chewing through the branch.

Big Dawg
03-25-2012, 16:42
fresh smelling weekenders and section hikers should not attempt this.

agree w/ your "food storage system",, but disagree that section hikers should not attempt this. The system you describe works perfect for this section hiker.:cool:

Hoofit
03-25-2012, 17:18
I hiked that area in 2010 and never had a problem - just make sure that you're well hung.

johnnybgood
03-25-2012, 17:48
I hiked that area in 2010 and never had a problem - just make sure that you're well hung. Somewhere here there has to be a joke.

Shovel
03-25-2012, 19:49
What's that gotta do with bears ? lol

vamelungeon
03-25-2012, 19:56
What's that gotta do with bears ? lol
Not bear, BARE.

stranger
03-25-2012, 21:50
I think that they could figure out that chewing through the cord would be easier than chewing through the branch.

Whoops...yes that's what I meant, chew through the cord : )

Jack Tarlin
03-25-2012, 22:44
Speaking (oddly enough) from the perspective of someone who actually lives here, there are indeed very active bears both North and South of Neel Gap. Prudent hikers will use extreme caution and prudence with their food bags when overnighting near here. The REALLY bright and prudent ones will go one step better......they simply won't camp near here, at least not for the time being. Sorry, people, this is not rocket science. Woods life is sorta like town life.....you wanna better chance of not being mugged? Then don't spend your evenings where the muggers are. Wow, what a difficult concept......

atmilkman
03-26-2012, 11:33
Hey, Hey Boo Boo! It's that time of year again. Here come all them newbie hikers. Bringing us them backapacky baskets. Hey, hey Boo Boo! Lets go shake some trees.

Sierra Echo
03-26-2012, 16:29
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.

stranger
03-26-2012, 16:48
Speaking (oddly enough) from the perspective of someone who actually lives here, there are indeed very active bears both North and South of Neel Gap. Prudent hikers will use extreme caution and prudence with their food bags when overnighting near here. The REALLY bright and prudent ones will go one step better......they simply won't camp near here, at least not for the time being. Sorry, people, this is not rocket science. Woods life is sorta like town life.....you wanna better chance of not being mugged? Then don't spend your evenings where the muggers are. Wow, what a difficult concept......

So you have to live in the area to understand this concept? I guess hiking through that area 3 times wouldn't give me the same perspective as someone who works in that area. Fair enough...: )

I agree however...want to avoid bears in this area then don't camp in the area...for now.

The problem with this short-term approach to the bear issue is that what's happening around Blood Mountain will become more and more widespread, eventually becoming all of Georgia (see Yosemite National Park). In the early to mid 90's bears were not an issue outside of the Smokies and Shenandoah, yet now you need to hang your food from Springer to Southwest Virginia...so come 2020 avoiding areas will become more and more difficult, if not impossible.

ChinMusic
03-26-2012, 16:53
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.

Sounds like a very sensible man.

Sierra Echo
03-26-2012, 16:59
Sounds like a very sensible man.

Not in the least bit.

stranger
03-26-2012, 17:05
Sleeping with your food is a proven, time tested method, over many years.

In fact, one could argue it's the only method that has not been 'defeated'.

Along the PCT, many hikers sleep with their food. In Alaska, this is also the chosen method for many people despite a healthy population of Grizzly bears.

ChinMusic
03-26-2012, 17:40
Not in the least bit.
Your choice. Handle YOUR food as you wish.

But to call someone an "idiot" for mentioning a VERY successful strategy is simply wrong-headed (notice I didn't say 'idiotic').

Skidsteer
03-26-2012, 17:43
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.

The only people who have not had their food stolen in this area are people who sleep with it in their tent or hike through without camping.

PCT method, slinging a rope and tying off to the trunk, and the official GATC bear cables are routinely defeated. Fact.

ChinMusic
03-26-2012, 17:44
In Alaska, this is also the chosen method for many people despite a healthy population of Grizzly bears.

I don't have those stones. I use a bear can in Griz country. I would prob use a can in areas where the black bear population has very little contact with humans as well (northern Manitoba for example). For the AT, my food stays right next to me most of the time.

WingedMonkey
03-26-2012, 17:57
It doesn't matter if your prefer the PCT hang, or if you like bear cables, or if you wish there were food storage boxes. It doesn't matter if you prefer to sleep with your food. It doesn't matter if you are under the delusion that bear hunting isn't already allowed in most of the National Forests in Georgia.
The Forest service has made a law, something they are allowed to do for management purposes. And the law says to either carry a bear canister in that short section or don't camp there.

The OP was that people are ignoring that law and that bears are stealing the bait once again.

The Forest Service now has two choices (as I see it), crack down and enforce the published rule and piss off a few dozen wannabe thru-hikers until trail gossip spreads the word. Or as they did last year, shut the whole short section down to overnight camping during spring season for the next few years, and enforce that instead.

Time to start writing some tickets.

:(

ChinMusic
03-26-2012, 18:50
It doesn't matter if your prefer the PCT hang, or if you like bear cables, or if you wish there were food storage boxes. It doesn't matter if you prefer to sleep with your food. It doesn't matter if you are under the delusion that bear hunting isn't already allowed in most of the National Forests in Georgia.
The Forest service has made a law, something they are allowed to do for management purposes. And the law says to either carry a bear canister in that short section or don't camp there.

The OP was that people are ignoring that law and that bears are stealing the bait once again.

The Forest Service now has two choices (as I see it), crack down and enforce the published rule and piss off a few dozen wannabe thru-hikers until trail gossip spreads the word. Or as they did last year, shut the whole short section down to overnight camping during spring season for the next few years, and enforce that instead.

Time to start writing some tickets.

:(
This thread has (d)evolved WAY beyond the OP.

For that, I agree. Follow the rules....simple enough. My personal solution would be to keep hiking. The real question is what do you do once you cross the boundary of the new rule.

Sierra Echo
03-26-2012, 19:27
The only people who have not had their food stolen in this area are people who sleep with it in their tent or hike through without camping.

PCT method, slinging a rope and tying off to the trunk, and the official GATC bear cables are routinely defeated. Fact.

I use the GATC bear cables and I haven't had my food stolen. Fact.

stranger
03-26-2012, 21:17
The PCT Method is not 'routinely defeated' ANYWHERE in the east coast.

Even slinging a rope and tying off still works (in some areas) if you know how to do it well and do it on a steep hillside.

PCT method still works in the Adirondacks where bears are easily the most intelligent along the east coast. Bears learned how to get past the Marcy Dam method back in 1994, when we used to hang bags off the dam, bear 1 goes up and cuts the rope, bear 2 on the bottom waiting for the food.

The problem in Georgia is the hikers, not the bears...plain and simple.

Lone Wolf
03-26-2012, 21:35
the LONE WOLF method has never been 'defeated' on the AT. hundreds of nites sleeping with food in a tent over 25 years. PCT method this!

ScottP
03-26-2012, 21:42
the LONE WOLF method has never been 'defeated' on the AT. hundreds of nites sleeping with food in a tent over 25 years. PCT method this!

I kinda hope a bear tries to eat you...

I've never tried bear stew before.

BigHodag
03-26-2012, 21:43
True story from one of the Class of 2012 that had his food taken by a bear. Didn't use PCT method.

http://www.laughingdog.com/2012/03/please-do-not-feed-bears.html

The bear(s) didn't much care for quinoa, vulgar wheat, oatmeal, dehydrated veggies, or spices and herbs. Liked Emergen-C Joint Formula:

"...ate all the packages I had in my bag. So I feel good that it's getting its vitamins."

RichardD
03-26-2012, 22:30
I am going to add my 5 cents.
First, its not a problem to walk past the 5 mile section and not camp there. If you do camp there obey the rules.
Elsewhere on the AT:. Last year many lost their food to bears in Georgia. Most of the food hangs I saw were close to the ground, close to a tree and in my view completely inadequate. Good branches to hang food from, PCT or otherwise were not commonplace. I was hiking with two other hikers and we strung a line between two trees and supended from it, it was a lot of work but with three of us we had enough cord, on my own I would not have taken the trouble.
Hikers lost food from bear wires but these were wires with only hooks at the food end, a carabiner at the food end which was common later in the hike would correct the problem (the bear shakes the cable and waits for food to fall)
I often slept with my food and never had a problem but I don't believe this should be a reccomendation for anyone else to do likewise. Most bears will not go near a tent with a person inside but there can be outliers, bears that do not follow the norm. You might never encounter one of these but if you do do and the bear came into your tent for food it could well be serious.
I am curious about one thing, many lost food when the bear swiped the cord where it was tied off and one reported the bear swiped the cord from the branch above a PCT hang. I understand bears dont see too well. Did this happen after dark or in daylight. I have to think that the way the tales were told it had to be daylight or perhaps they were tall tales!!
I have seen many bears on my Hikes, AT and elsewhere but have never lost food to one.

Passengr57
03-26-2012, 22:32
Ok I've been following this post for a few days now. All my AT experience is north of the Smokies and from the Whites on down. Im well familiar with the bear boxes in NJ but am wondering how concerned I should be. In all my years and over 1500miles of trail I've never slept with food but am willing to try. My question is for those know know the area if I want to trek thru the trouble spots what's the best spot to set up to do that the night before? I really want to stay a night at blood with hopes of stars/views but is it worth the risk? Thx.

ChinMusic
03-26-2012, 22:41
I really want to stay a night at blood with hopes of stars/views but is it worth the risk? Thx.

I usu sleep with my food. But, if I were going to stay at Blood, I would bring a can and follow the rules.

RichardD
03-26-2012, 22:44
One more thing to my 5 cents
Some of the best entertainment to be had in the evening near shelters is to watch others attempt to hang their food. (my attempts have at times provided entertainment for others)

max patch
03-26-2012, 22:47
Not legal to camp at Blood without bear canister.

Many NOBO hikers are camping at Lance Creek which is just outside the required canister area, which is the section 5 miles south of Neels Gap to Neels.

Passengr57
03-26-2012, 23:08
Okay a bear canister for the win it is. Thx. I'm good with doing the pct method but I just want to blow through the first few days w/o issue sigh.

Biggie Master
03-26-2012, 23:34
I hike with this guy, so I have never had any problems keeping my food away from bears... http://youtu.be/KIWmmbbALok

Seriously, I always hang my food well away from my sleep area, because that's what I'm comfortable doing... There are lots of methods, and lots of opinions. One size does NOT fit ALL. If you manage your food supply so that the bears can't get to it, I really don't care if it's in your tent, 12 feet in the air, or 6 feet underground.

Big Dawg
03-27-2012, 00:36
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.

Wow,, lack of knowledge and slander from you, Sierra Echo, is not a pretty sight.

stranger
03-27-2012, 03:49
Last year many lost their food to bears in Georgia. Most of the food hangs I saw were close to the ground, close to a tree and in my view completely inadequate. Good branches to hang food from, PCT or otherwise were not commonplace...

I find this perplexing...in 2008 I hiked from Springer to Atkins and never once had a problem finding a good branch, usually within 50 yards of my tent. The farthest I had to go was on Walnut Mountain and that was only 0.2 down the AT towards Hot Springs, alot of hikers lost their food that night but we didn't (PCT hang on good branch).

This was also the site where I found the food bag in the middle of the trail with the branch laying next to it, bear was able to chew or tear the thin branch off the tree.

Sierra Echo
03-27-2012, 16:17
Wow,, lack of knowledge and slander from you, Sierra Echo, is not a pretty sight.


Excuse me, but do I know you???

Jack Tarlin
03-27-2012, 16:19
Just for the record, without exception, every hiker we've heard from or about who had his food taken this year in the vicinity of Neel Gap had it taken while it was hung from a tree. We have not heard of a single incident in which food was taken while it was with a hiker in his or her tent. I am not suggesting or advocating for one method over the other, but facts are facts......the number of folks who lost their food while sleeping with it is zero.

rocketsocks
03-27-2012, 16:31
HaHaHaHaLOLand LMAO

Ender
03-27-2012, 17:10
Please keep personal disputes out of the thread. Argue about the topic as much as you want, but keep personal attacks out of it.

royalusa
03-27-2012, 17:47
Bear took hanging food from hiker at Wild Cat (mile 36) last night. Chilly Willy had his hanging food bag taken a few days before that just a few hundred yards past Hogpen Gap (mile 37). And a day or so before that a bear was spotted at Blue Mt Shelter (mile 48) but did not get any food bags.

rocketsocks
03-27-2012, 17:49
HaHaHaHa LOL and LMAO
Sorry forgot to link thread,But my echoing laughter,it wasn't about an observation!:D

max patch
03-27-2012, 18:26
Bear took hanging food from hiker at Wild Cat (mile 36) last night. Chilly Willy had his hanging food bag taken a few days before that just a few hundred yards past Hogpen Gap (mile 37). And a day or so before that a bear was spotted at Blue Mt Shelter (mile 48) but did not get any food bags.

Neels to Low Gap (particularly the Low Gap Shelter) has been a problem area in recent years and I wonder if this has been overlooked this year because of the emphasis on the 5 mile section S of Neels.

I've always hung my food in problem areas, but when experienced hikers recommend sleeping with their food -- it does makes one wonder as to the best course of action. Still hanging for now but have an open mind.

Lone Wolf
03-27-2012, 20:57
I've always hung my food in problem areas, but when experienced hikers recommend sleeping with their food -- it does makes one wonder as to the best course of action. Still hanging for now but have an open mind.

try it. seriously. 25 years now and i've never hung my food from bears. mice yes back when i was dumb enuf to sleep in a box. never had a problem from either in a tent

CrumbSnatcher
03-27-2012, 21:11
One more thing to my 5 cents
Some of the best entertainment to be had in the evening near shelters is to watch others attempt to hang their food. (my attempts have at times provided entertainment for others)
loved watching hikers try to use the poles in SNP :-) the poles still there?

Big Dawg
03-28-2012, 02:00
Excuse me, but do I know you???

you're excused

No, other than seeing my posts on this forum since 5/17/2010.

Big Dawg
03-28-2012, 02:16
I think that people hang their food because that's what the majority of people suggest. I remember reading one of LW's post many years ago about sleeping w/ his food. It got me to thinking about the reality of whether hanging was even necessary. When I began my section hike in 2000, I religously hung because of my fears. Then shortly thereafter, I took LW's advice and haven't looked back. I have NEVER had a problem w/ anything trying to get in my tent for food. I realize now after many years of sleeping w/ my food that my original fears were unfounded. I read about today's hanging hoopla and just have to snicker, like I know some secret that most people haven't figured out yet. Take LW's advice,,, sleeping w/ your food is really no big deal, and doesn't deserve the "personal attacks" that are directed towards it. Thanks LW!

vamelungeon
03-28-2012, 05:26
I think that people hang their food because that's what the majority of people suggest. I remember reading one of LW's post many years ago about sleeping w/ his food. It got me to thinking about the reality of whether hanging was even necessary. When I began my section hike in 2000, I religously hung because of my fears. Then shortly thereafter, I took LW's advice and haven't looked back. I have NEVER had a problem w/ anything trying to get in my tent for food. I realize now after many years of sleeping w/ my food that my original fears were unfounded. I read about today's hanging hoopla and just have to snicker, like I know some secret that most people haven't figured out yet. Take LW's advice,,, sleeping w/ your food is really no big deal, and doesn't deserve the "personal attacks" that are directed towards it. Thanks LW!
Amen! I agree.

Ashman
03-28-2012, 06:12
Are there any signs posted on the trail before you hit the section? If you had no idea that the new regulation was in place, is there any notice on the trail itself? If so, anybody have a pic of it?

Pedaling Fool
03-28-2012, 07:42
I think that people hang their food because that's what the majority of people suggest. I remember reading one of LW's post many years ago about sleeping w/ his food. It got me to thinking about the reality of whether hanging was even necessary. When I began my section hike in 2000, I religously hung because of my fears. Then shortly thereafter, I took LW's advice and haven't looked back. I have NEVER had a problem w/ anything trying to get in my tent for food. I realize now after many years of sleeping w/ my food that my original fears were unfounded. I read about today's hanging hoopla and just have to snicker, like I know some secret that most people haven't figured out yet. Take LW's advice,,, sleeping w/ your food is really no big deal, and doesn't deserve the "personal attacks" that are directed towards it. Thanks LW! Yeah it's funny everytime we hear of a hiker getting his food stolen people here lash out at us that keep our food in our tent. We get blamed for behavior of bears that was started and continues with hanging food.

T-Rx
03-28-2012, 08:03
With so many experienced hikers recommending sleeping with your food it does make you think they maybe right on this. I am on WB to learn as much as possible from the experiences of others, so I think the next time I am in the woods I will be keeping my food in my hammock with me. Thanks LW and JT.

msupple
03-28-2012, 08:21
I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of the Ursack Bear Bag. I'm leaving Springer on April 1st and that's what I'm using. I hiked the Shenandoahs last year which also has a heavy bear population with no problem. I always used oder proof bags inside the Ursack and hung it well away from camp. You can of course also hang it from cables or poles. It's VERY simple and time saving.

I must admit, after reading about so many very experienced hikers sleeping with their food, I'm attamted to give it a try.

Miguel

Bearpaw
03-28-2012, 09:32
try it. seriously. 25 years now and i've never hung my food from bears. mice yes back when i was dumb enuf to sleep in a box. never had a problem from either in a tent

Just be sure not to camp in a trashed area. I know of two folks who have had tents entered near the trashy beach area of Watauga Lake. It seems like folks have actually fed the bears there. Lone Wolf will tell you sleeping with your food works (and it does), but he'll also tell you to use some common sense. Common sense for this 5-mile stretch is to walk on through to Neel Gap avoid both the bears and the regulation.

Pedaling Fool
03-28-2012, 09:46
With so many experienced hikers recommending sleeping with your food it does make you think they maybe right on this. I am on WB to learn as much as possible from the experiences of others, so I think the next time I am in the woods I will be keeping my food in my hammock with me. Thanks LW and JT.


I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of the Ursack Bear Bag. I'm leaving Springer on April 1st and that's what I'm using. I hiked the Shenandoahs last year which also has a heavy bear population with no problem. I always used oder proof bags inside the Ursack and hung it well away from camp. You can of course also hang it from cables or poles. It's VERY simple and time saving.

I must admit, after reading about so many very experienced hikers sleeping with their food, I'm attamted to give it a try.

Miguel

Just don't leave your food unattended, regardless where you store it.

ChinMusic
03-28-2012, 10:33
I think that people hang their food because that's what the majority of people suggest. I remember reading one of LW's post many years ago about sleeping w/ his food. It got me to thinking about the reality of whether hanging was even necessary. When I began my section hike in 2000, I religously hung because of my fears. Then shortly thereafter, I took LW's advice and haven't looked back. I have NEVER had a problem w/ anything trying to get in my tent for food. I realize now after many years of sleeping w/ my food that my original fears were unfounded. I read about today's hanging hoopla and just have to snicker, like I know some secret that most people haven't figured out yet. Take LW's advice,,, sleeping w/ your food is really no big deal, and doesn't deserve the "personal attacks" that are directed towards it. Thanks LW!

This has been my experience as well.

flemdawg1
03-28-2012, 14:56
I'm surprised there hasn't been any mention of the Ursack Bear Bag. I'm leaving Springer on April 1st and that's what I'm using. I hiked the Shenandoahs last year which also has a heavy bear population with no problem. I always used oder proof bags inside the Ursack and hung it well away from camp. You can of course also hang it from cables or poles. It's VERY simple and time saving.

I must admit, after reading about so many very experienced hikers sleeping with their food, I'm attamted to give it a try.

Miguel

The were 2 bear encounters in the Blood Mtn area while I was sectioning the 1st week of April last year.
The bear/bears climbed cables, climbed branches to pull up bags (even those using PCT), & entered Blood Mtn shelter (hikers were sleeping in the back room and left the food and packs in the front). In one of the encounters/thefts a hiker had on URsack, the bear chew and pounced on the bag untill the contents were crushed to powder. No the bear didn't get the food, but the food was an inedible mess. Like the others have said, just hike thru the container-zone and camp outside of it.

CrumbSnatcher
03-28-2012, 15:05
anyone ever hear of the bears getting the food bags down off the poles in SNP

Sierra Echo
03-28-2012, 16:16
you're excused

No, other than seeing my posts on this forum since 5/17/2010.

I've never noticed you before. Sorry!

johnnybgood
03-28-2012, 16:33
anyone ever hear of the bears getting the food bags down off the poles in SNP
Nope... of course I am no expert at shelter shananigans.

mfleming
03-28-2012, 23:39
the LONE WOLF method has never been 'defeated' on the AT. hundreds of nites sleeping with food in a tent over 25 years. PCT method this!

:)

.............

Big Dawg
03-29-2012, 00:21
I've never noticed you before. Sorry!

Haha,,,, no skin off my back,,, no appology necessary. Can't say I've every noticed you here before either. Just surprised by your harsh remark towards an enlightened employee of MC.

added later....
come to think of it, I do remember you from shortly after you joined in 2010, because I commented on your "sweet" bear paw tat. How ironic,,,,

can't say I remember any of your posts tho...

Embrace the bear paw,,, snuggle w/ your food,, you won't be sorry,, and you'll look a lot less silly than slingin rope in the woods! ;)

rocketsocks
03-29-2012, 00:40
:)

.............OK,good first bump,not bad,not bad:welcomewe don't bite...most of the time.:D

Odd Man Out
03-29-2012, 14:02
I am very much intrigued by this hang vs sleep with food question. The sleep with food option is certainly attractive. On the other hand, it is quite contrary to what most people have been taught over the years. On the other hand, there are plenty of times when an idea that is contrary to conventional wisdom turns out to be superior. On the other hand, as a scientist, I find anecdotal evidence alone (i.e. "it has always worked for me") to be relatively weak. So I am looking for more support than "it has always worked for me". Is the "sleep with food" hypothesis unique to the AT? Is this method more widespread than this forum/tail? Is this discussed in the wider hiking community? Any systematic studies of this method? Enquiring minds want to know.

flemdawg1
03-29-2012, 14:15
Yes, in the shelter register of the Black Rock Hut.

flemdawg1
03-29-2012, 14:16
anyone ever hear of the bears getting the food bags down off the poles in SNP

Yes, in the shelter register of the Black Rock Hut.

V Eight
03-29-2012, 14:29
It might not have been on WB, but in another "sleep with" / "hang" discussion one of the
posters had made a pretty compelling argument that, East Coast Bears still believe that
possession rules.

Their argument centered around the theory that the Bears do not seem to be to interested in our food when they see us walking down the trail, and all indications here are that the Bears do not seem to be to interested in our food when people use their food bag as a pillow. No it seems that the Bears are only interested in our food when we no longer have it in our possession.

I thought it was an interesting theory. Me, sometimes I "hang" sometimes I've got a fuller
pillow. HYOH

Bear-bait
03-29-2012, 17:11
Hanging is the problem folks. Hanging kills bears.

And I am lumping in proper hanging with substandard, since that is the reality.

I agree with ChinMusic 100%. I just hiked the GA AT and heard numerous accounts of Bear(s) stealing food bags near Neels Gap. Whenever I investigated the issue further, I determined (after speaking with people who had their food stolen), that they did not use the PCT or counterbalance method. Rather, they simply tied off the rope to the nearest tree. The Bear(s) in this are are becoming incredibly habituated (and therefore dangerous) to humans. I saw a very large Bear, 1 mile north of Neels Gap, while eating breakfast. The Bear casually walked around me, even while I was banging loudly on my pots. Obviously, it did not care the least that there were three other large, loud humans dancing and screaming with pots and pans clanging.

The Bear(s) near Blood Mt./Neels gap are extremely smart and habituated. People really need to pay attention to the canister rule and learn to hang their food properly. In this area, I would say that sleeping with your food is also a very bad idea, since the Bear(s) do not seem to be afraid of people. I heard a story about a group of people, who after hearing a bear root around outside the shelter on Blood Mt., covered the door with a Tarp, so as to create a barrier of sorts. The Bear simply came into the shelter through the window. This is why the Forest Service instituted the new canister rules...and rightly so.

Jack Tarlin
03-29-2012, 22:29
Speaking from the perspective of someone who actually lives and works in Neel Gap, here's another opinion: In recent days, there have been fewer reports of food or food bag loss. Obviously, people are either being smarter about how and where they hang their food, or more likely, they are simply electing to camp in places where there have been no reported problems. Obviously, these are wise people. That being said, in light of this ongoing debate: The number of people who have reported food loss or other associated problems while their food was in their tents is, in fact, zero. People may draw their own conclusions from this....

Tinker
03-30-2012, 00:19
True story from one of the Class of 2012 that had his food taken by a bear. Didn't use PCT method.

http://www.laughingdog.com/2012/03/please-do-not-feed-bears.html

The bear(s) didn't much care for quinoa, vulgar wheat, oatmeal, dehydrated veggies, or spices and herbs. Liked Emergen-C Joint Formula:

"...ate all the packages I had in my bag. So I feel good that it's getting its vitamins."


I don't like vulgar wheat, either ...............;)

Ktaadn
03-30-2012, 10:03
I think it's pretty naive to know that bears are smart enough to figure out that food is in the brightly colored objects hanging from trees and also how to get it, and think that they won't figure out that food is also in the brightly colored sleeping bags/tents on the ground.

I’ve slept with my food more times than I’ve hung it and I’ve never had an issue either way, but that doesn’t mean that I made the right decision.

If you think bears care about some fabricated “possession” rule, try picking up one of their cubs and see how they feel about your possessions.

SouthMark
03-30-2012, 12:01
According to the National Center for Statistics, for every death caused by a black bear, 17 deaths are caused by spiders, 25 deaths caused by (from) snakes, 67 deaths from dogs, and 180 deaths from wasps and bees. On average, fewer than three people are killed every year by the more than 650,000 black bears in America. Surprisingly, Black Bear mothers rarely attack humans when defending their cubs.

Pedaling Fool
03-30-2012, 16:28
I think it's pretty naive to know that bears are smart enough to figure out that food is in the brightly colored objects hanging from trees and also how to get it, and think that they won't figure out that food is also in the brightly colored sleeping bags/tents on the ground.

I’ve slept with my food more times than I’ve hung it and I’ve never had an issue either way, but that doesn’t mean that I made the right decision.

It has nothing to do with so-called possession rule that bears respect. It's all about risk vs. reward. If you leave your food in a tent and walk away and a bear is around there's a good chance he's going to nab that food, about the same chance as him nabbing it if you leave food in your pack and walk away.

However, if you are with your food that changes everything, regardless if it's in a tent or in your pack. The bears are nabbing food in trees when no one is around.


If you think bears care about some fabricated “possession” rule, try picking up one of their cubs and see how they feel about your possessions.

I got between a mother and her cub in SNP and she ran off leaving the cub in a tree. I know... anecdotal evidence so here's one source that dispells that myth.
http://www.dgif.virginia.gov/wildlife/bear/black-bear-factsheet.pdf


Myth: One of the most dangerous encounters is getting between a mother black bear and her cubs.


Fact: Because black bears can tree their cubs, it is rare for them to injure a person in that situation. Blackbear cubs are great at climbing and will be sent up a tree if the mother bear feels nervous about a situation.The mother bear will either run off to lead the danger away or stay close by until the perceived threatpasses. Just like with any young animals you never want to try to get near them. If you see a mother bear
and cubs give them some space, be quiet, and retreat slowly.

Bear-bait
03-30-2012, 17:19
If the probability is high that your food will be safe and there will be no adverse encounter if you properly (via PCT or counter balance method) hang your food, then why not do it? It does not take much effort to do things properly. Seems like an easy decision for me.

SouthMark
03-30-2012, 18:41
"Black bears live by running away" - Maine wildlife biologist

Loopback
03-30-2012, 22:41
I'm a new member. Thanks for the great discussion. I'm learning a lot. I did some searching while reading this thread. It turns out, according to The American Bear Association, that black bears see pretty well. "At least as well as humans." That's pretty interesting. I listened to a podcast put on by the head bear biologist at Yosemite. She said that black bears can distinguish grocery bags, coolers and bear bags - even when they've never had any food or smelly item in them - form things like sleeping bags and other dry sacks. Their knowledge from experience with human food is hyper-sensitive for 2 reasons: their entire life (despite the distraction of mating over a typcial 6 week period in early summer) is dedicated to gathering energy and, human food is ridiculously high in energy. Very cool. Also, from the Georgia Department of Natural Resources: "There are no recorded bear attacks on humans in Georgia, and no fatalities. There have only been two documented fatal black bear attacks in the Southeastern United States." I'm still a little freaked out by the "sleep with your food" method, but I'm going to explore it some more. I guess it's pretty terrible that I'm so worried about a 32 oz bear canister in my pack. I've spent so much time and money to get a base weight of 13 pounds in my pack, that those 2 extra pounds seem like a punishment. On the other hand, I could eat less pizza and just lose those 2 pounds.

Sarcasm the elf
03-31-2012, 00:55
Funny enough, I spent three years convincing my hiking partner that we had to always correctly hang our food. Now I'm trying to convince him tHat we should just sleep with our food in the tent...

2012thruhiker
03-31-2012, 09:35
I'm trying for a thru and I'm 52 miles in at unicoi. There has been a lot of talk about bears, one group that camped less than a mile from me (I was on wolf laural top in the data book) had a bear get their food by shaking a tree and we "circled all night, even after we started a fire".

I personally have seem where a bear (i assume) destroyed some dude's food bag but thats all I've seen with my own two eyes. Also they are ticketing folks who camp between jarrod and Neels without a bear bag I'm told.

Im just hanging my bag in a good spot, staying away from shelters and so far no problems.

nyrslr21
04-01-2012, 01:35
Maybe a proper PCT hang will still work in GA, but in other places it won't. I think they are trained to defeat the PCT and counterbalance methods by sending a cub out on a branch and dive bombing the bag or chewing through or breaking the branch. Bears in parts of the Sierras have learned how to get the food from proper PCT hang.



In the Adirondacks I'm not sure if the bears learned to defeat the PCT method, but the the state decided that bears were getting hung food so often that there were too many aggressive bear-human interactions. Canisters are now required in parts of the ADK.

Also, I was told at an EMS in Paramus that this style of Bearvault canisters is no longer allowed in the ADKs, as a bear had figured out how to hook a claw into the lid and pull them open.


http://www.rei.com/product/768901/bearvault-bv450-solo-food-container

vamelungeon
04-01-2012, 07:24
The dangers of black bears are greatly exaggerated.

Sent from my BlackBerry 9330 using Tapatalk

Pedaling Fool
04-01-2012, 07:59
....staying away from shelters and so far no problems.
That's smart


Also, I was told at an EMS in Paramus that this style of Bearvault canisters is no longer allowed in the ADKs, as a bear had figured out how to hook a claw into the lid and pull them open.


http://www.rei.com/product/768901/bearvault-bv450-solo-food-container

That's funny:)

Joker4ink
04-01-2012, 17:48
I sectioned Georgia a few weeks back and bears were snatching bags all over the place, or shaking bear cables for the food. I met people camping within the 5 mile section prior to Blood and they weren't using canisters as required...needless to say, their food bags were snacks for Yogi too.

barf_jay
04-05-2012, 08:17
I finally decided to just carry a bear canister for all my hikes, I think it is a personal choice if someone wants to use a canister, bear bag or just sleep with their food. Just make your decision, & whatever makes you sleep easier at night just roll with it.

mgeiger
04-05-2012, 13:46
Right on Jay.

ATMountainTime
04-05-2012, 16:07
Saw a pair of them in the Fort Mountain Georgia, not too far from the trail. Then again, ive live, hiked, camped here my whole life and this was the first bear ive seen!

Lightfoot70
04-06-2012, 00:19
I was on blood mountain last spring staying in the shelter with two thru-hikers. As I have done for most of my 20 years of north ga camping I kept my food with me. Upon waking the next morning, the young girl who was thru-hiking and had hung her bag much to her dismay found her food wrappers scattered down the mountainside. Needless to say, I enjoyed a hot breakfast and a good cup of Joe! I realize there is a risk by keeping your food with you but that is why I sleep with a big knife! If yogi wants my food he is going to pay a price! My rules for food are... Prepare cooked meals away from your sleep area, keep everything in ziplock bags, and when possible mask food smells with campfire smoke. By doing this I have never had an issue and hopefully never will. Happy trails!!!

Bearpaw
04-06-2012, 20:54
The one thing I find baffling is how many hikers hang their food bag from a line and stick (with a can to keep away the mice) right above their feet in a shelter and you never hear of bears entering shelters to snag their food. I guess bears are either afraid of snorers or mice.

ChinMusic
04-06-2012, 21:44
The one thing I find baffling is how many hikers hang their food bag from a line and stick (with a can to keep away the mice) right above their feet in a shelter and you never hear of bears entering shelters to snag their food.

It's the same principle as sleeping with your food, but not quite as good. It's sort of like a tenter putting his food bag in his vestibule. A bear would be MUCH more likely to do a grab and run with the food at your feet than it would if the food was further in the shelter. I'm actually surprise we don't hear about food bags being stolen from the openings of shelters. Leave that same food bag on the picnic table and I bet it's fair game.

MuddyWaters
04-06-2012, 22:05
If I left my wallet on a bench where people looking for crimes of opportunity hang out at night, with no one around , it wouldnt be there the next day.
If I sat on the bench with my wallet in my pocket, Id probably still have it the next day
If 3 of us sat on the bench with our wallets, we could be pretty confident no one would try to take them

Maybe, just maybe, the very rare bad guy would come by and rob one of us with our wallets, but not likely to happen often. But when it did, we could be shot and killed.

So what do people do? They avoid those areas at night, and band together if they have too. But they dont leave their wallets.

Sarcasm the elf
04-06-2012, 22:39
If I left my wallet on a bench where people looking for crimes of opportunity hang out at night, with no one around , it wouldnt be there the next day.
If I sat on the bench with my wallet in my pocket, Id probably still have it the next day
If 3 of us sat on the bench with our wallets, we could be pretty confident no one would try to take them

Maybe, just maybe, the very rare bad guy would come by and rob one of us with our wallets, but not likely to happen often. But when it did, we could be shot and killed.

So what do people do? They avoid those areas at night, and band together if they have too. But they dont leave their wallets.


I have nothing to add, I just really like this analogy.

Big Dawg
04-07-2012, 00:02
Upon waking the next morning, the young girl who was thru-hiking and had hung her bag much to her dismay found her food wrappers scattered down the mountainside. Needless to say, I enjoyed a hot breakfast and a good cup of Joe!

Priceless!!! Would've loved to be there to see the "ah ha" moment on her face!


If I left my wallet on a bench where people looking for crimes of opportunity hang out at night, with no one around , it wouldnt be there the next day.
If I sat on the bench with my wallet in my pocket, Id probably still have it the next day
If 3 of us sat on the bench with our wallets, we could be pretty confident no one would try to take them

Maybe, just maybe, the very rare bad guy would come by and rob one of us with our wallets, but not likely to happen often. But when it did, we could be shot and killed.

So what do people do? They avoid those areas at night, and band together if they have too. But they dont leave their wallets.

Excellent,, just excellent!!!!


I have nothing to add, I just really like this analogy.

+1

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 10:52
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.


Sounds like a very sensible man.

I went back for this earlier post - and folks - I know LW sleeps with his food... Sleeping with food that is attractive smelling increases your chances of being a bear burrito! We know this from all the boy's in boy scouts that have made this mistake in bear country. (most put snacks in the footbox to avoid other boys stealing) Just because it hasn't happened to you doesn't mean it wont happen... Drought, lack of natural foods and kills will drive a bear to try new things... including munching on toes....We learned from Jennifer Pharr Davis that the first through she hardly saw one bear... on setting her record she got up early and hiked late seeing some 20 + bears. Changing your behaviors will increase or decrease your risk.

Here in the east a bear container - well I won't buy one... A plastic bag to nutralize the odor might be handy, but the real issue is still shelter mice. I like the idea of ursack light.

And Sierra - when someone says something like that in person - call them on the bad advice in the store...

The odds are very low and I agree with the post over on page 8 that folks that hang don't do it right, and a learned skill will make the difference....


https://www.google.com/search?q=boy+scout+attacked+by+bear+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 10:54
Funny enough, I spent three years convincing my hiking partner that we had to always correctly hang our food. Now I'm trying to convince him tHat we should just sleep with our food in the tent...

That's why you have that wonderful trail name..... Hmmmm.

WingedMonkey
04-07-2012, 11:19
https://www.google.com/search?q=boy+scout+attacked+by+bear+&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a

The only time in my life (so far) that I have had food taken by a bear was while hanging it on my first trip to Philmont when I was 16. It was our last night out. I would imagine by now they are even better trained to know where to look for a meal.

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 11:28
Yea Wm I was looking for a story that actually happened locally where there are few or no bears about kid had snacks in the bag and got bitten on the foot early in the morning. From that search its easy to see it happens a lot at Philmont. Bears live to be about 30 years - That's a long time to get all the tricks to a meal.

ChinMusic
04-07-2012, 11:34
Most of those Boy Scout stories about bears and Snickers Bars are BS. Some even go as far as to blame it on a wrapper. I'm sure many thrus have more debris than that in their beards.

When it comes to figuring out who to believe, these stories or the words of guys that have 10's of thousands of miles on the trail.................the call is an EASY one for me.

SouthMark
04-07-2012, 11:39
There is an idiot who works at Mountain Crossings telling people to sleep with their food. If they get attacked I hope they nail his ass.

Actually, sleeping with your food is good advice. The only people that loose their food to bears are people who hang their food. In 38 years I have never lost my food to bears or any other critter and I always sleep with it. One of my hiking partners, a section hiker who will finish the trail next month and has hiked many sections multiple times, always sleeps with her food ands has never had a problem. Even the National Forest Service in a publication "Living with Black Bears" state that black bears will probably not enter a tent with a human occupant. Check out www.bear.org. They have been studying black bear behavior for 40 years and dispel many black bear myths.

ChinMusic
04-07-2012, 11:49
One thing for sure, one group that WANTS hikers to hang their food...........is the bears.

rocketsocks
04-07-2012, 12:02
Actually, sleeping with your food is good advice. The only people that loose their food to bears are people who hang their food. In 38 years I have never lost my food to bears or any other critter and I always sleep with it. One of my hiking partners, a section hiker who will finish the trail next month and has hiked many sections multiple times, always sleeps with her food ands has never had a problem. Even the National Forest Service in a publication "Living with Black Bears" state that black bears will probably not enter a tent with a human occupant. Check out www.bear.org (http://www.bear.org). They have been studying black bear behavior for 40 years and dispel many black bear myths.Where exactly did you read that?I could not find it.

SouthMark
04-07-2012, 12:02
If there is a bear out there that will attack a hiker for food, what you do with your food will not matter. In that case you are the food. The deaths by wild black bears in the eastern US were from rare predatory bears who were after the humans for food.

In Pennsylvania, Dr. Gary Alt spent over a decade studying a 7-square-mile community called Hemlock Farms where 7,000 people coexisted with 21 bears. That many bears in 7 square miles is a higher bear density than exists in any national park or national forest. People regularly hand-fed the bears. No one was attacked.

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 12:21
Most of those Boy Scout stories about bears and Snickers Bars are BS. Some even go as far as to blame it on a wrapper. I'm sure many thrus have more debris than that in their beards.

When it comes to figuring out who to believe, these stories or the words of guys that have 10's of thousands of miles on the trail.................the call is an EASY one for me.

Oct 14, 2007 (In the paper)

14-year-old Chris Malasics from Chester County, Pennsylvania was attacked by a black bear. Around 11:30 Friday evening Malasics was in his tent when the bear ripped it down. He was with other scouts camped out at Hickory Run State Park in Carbon County. Malasics curled into a fetal position and played dead while the bear tossed him around like a beach ball.
The scout leader and other scouts tried creating a diversion by banging pots and pans and flashing car headlights. One report (http://cbs3.com/topstories/bear.attack.boy.2.374222.html) out of Pennsylvania described the bears reactions this way.
We as outdoor people should pay attention to the last sentence in the above – “The bear eventually wandered off”. It didn’t bolt, run, immediately head for the woods or any such thing. The bear “eventually” just simply “wandered” off. More and more bears have absolutely no fear at all of man and this spells potential danger. We must be made aware.
The boy was treated at a local hospital for cuts and bruises and will undergo rabies shots as a precaution.

I remember reading several web based newspapers and one did report him having snacks in the tent.

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 12:32
CM the best part about WB is having a discussion on a subject "We can agree to disagree" I doubt I would be able to change your opinion... but when I use the word "stories" I am remembering an article from a verified source of news, it may or may not be accurate but it is not BS told to me by a friend or word of mouth.... I am a news junkie.

Published: July 8, 2010 at 11:54 PM

CIMARRON, N.M., July 8 (UPI) -- Drought is responsible for an increase in bear attacks at a New Mexico scouting ranch, including an attack on a 14-year-old Boy Scout, a ranch official says.
"As a result of (the drought after a late spring) they have to do more work to find food, and bears are going to be constantly looking for food," Philmont Scout Ranch Programming Director Mark Anderson told KRQE-TV, Albuquerque.
Early Wednesday morning a 150-pound black bear pounced on a tent and gorged the hand of Boy Scout Aaron Myers, 14. The bear also bit his head.
The 2- to 3-year-old bear was killed by a Philmont employee and will be tested for rabies, state Game and Fish biologist Rick Winslow told the Albuquerque Journal.
About 10 local scouts and two adult leaders -- including Aaron's 16-year-old brother, Collin, and father, Craig -- had spent the last night of a 12-day trip in the 159,000-acre rugged, mountainous range in the northern New Mexico wilderness when the attack occurred, officials said.
The bear that attacked Aaron was the third bear the troop had encountered on the trip, but the first to hurt anyone, said Aaron's mother, Beth Myers.
The incident was the second injury caused by a bear on the range in eight days, Winslow said.


Read more: http://www.upi.com/Top_News/US/2010/07/08/Bear-attack-on-Boy-Scout-blamed-on-drought/UPI-97331278647662/#ixzz1rNAiExs3

Wise Old Owl
04-07-2012, 12:44
If there is a bear out there that will attack a hiker for food, what you do with your food will not matter. In that case you are the food. The deaths by wild black bears in the eastern US were from rare predatory bears who were after the humans for food.

In Pennsylvania, Dr. Gary Alt spent over a decade studying a 7-square-mile community called Hemlock Farms where 7,000 people coexisted with 21 bears. That many bears in 7 square miles is a higher bear density than exists in any national park or national forest. People regularly hand-fed the bears. No one was attacked.

I suspect the behavior is (opportunity). Bears are very aware of us and generally stay away. They do not fear man but keep a distance and have no fear of "quite camps" that we make. Lately we are camping in the woods without fires. On the last set of backpacking trips we are all but tired and cooking food on stoves as apposed to making a fire. So I see your statement in a different light. The bears are looking for opportunity to gain a meal - not understanding that tent or bag contains a sleeping human. It is unlikley a charge at us is an attack for food, more of a behavior to say I am here. It deserves a healthy respect unlike this idiot. Who was consumed by an old grizzly that was having trouble finding and catching food.

http://themoviebanter.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/03/news01.jpg

ChinMusic
04-07-2012, 12:57
Oct 14, 2007 (In the paper)

14-year-old Chris Malasics from Chester County, Pennsylvania was attacked by a black bear. Around 11:30 Friday evening Malasics was in his tent when the bear ripped it down. He was with other scouts camped out at Hickory Run State Park in Carbon County. Malasics curled into a fetal position and played dead while the bear tossed him around like a beach ball.
The scout leader and other scouts tried creating a diversion by banging pots and pans and flashing car headlights. One report (http://cbs3.com/topstories/bear.attack.boy.2.374222.html) out of Pennsylvania described the bears reactions this way.
We as outdoor people should pay attention to the last sentence in the above – “The bear eventually wandered off”. It didn’t bolt, run, immediately head for the woods or any such thing. The bear “eventually” just simply “wandered” off. More and more bears have absolutely no fear at all of man and this spells potential danger. We must be made aware.
The boy was treated at a local hospital for cuts and bruises and will undergo rabies shots as a precaution.

I remember reading several web based newspapers and one did report him having snacks in the tent.

"I remember" LOL That is part of the BS I'm talking about. It's the "my brother-in-law's, sister's friend told me.........." stuff.

Where in the first article does it state the attack was over food? The second article has no mention of food in the tent either. Of course bears are "looking" for food. That and mating is all they do. If I didn't know better, I would think you are trying to make MY point.

There have been recent deadly attacks in Yellowstone that had NOTHING to do with food. IMO should a rogue bear want in your tent, it matters not what is in there.

SouthMark
04-07-2012, 14:13
A problem for black bears is that literature about bears often does not separate black bears from grizzly bears. Also Hollywood does not help. Most peoples perception of bears is from TV or a movie. Hollywood even dubs in wolf growls for black bears who do not even growl. The mother defending her cubs is a grizzly trait and not a black bear trait but most people believe a mother black bear will attack to protect her cubs but she will run the cubs ups a tree and run away. She my bluff charge first but she will run away. To quote a Maine wildlife biologist "black bears live by running away". These statements are not anecdotes but facts from studies by wildlife biologists.

speedbump
04-07-2012, 14:49
Does anyone know if Ursaks are allowed instead of canisters?

ChinMusic
04-07-2012, 14:55
Does anyone know if Ursaks are allowed instead of canisters?
Cans only.........

SouthMark
04-07-2012, 14:57
Does anyone know if Ursaks are allowed instead of canisters?

If you are referring to the five mile section in Georgia it is hard sided canisters only. Of course the easy thing to do is hike on through that section and not camp.The canisters are only required if you camp.

ChinMusic
04-07-2012, 15:00
If you are referring to the five mile section in Georgia it is hard sided canisters only. Of course the easy thing to do is hike on through that section and not camp.The canisters are only required if you camp.
With all the lightning some folks have had to shorten their day and stop at Lance Creek. So the bears AND the weather have come into play.

Pedaling Fool
04-07-2012, 15:16
Oct 14, 2007 (In the paper)

14-year-old Chris Malasics from Chester County, Pennsylvania was attacked by a black bear. Around 11:30 Friday evening Malasics was in his tent when the bear ripped it down. He was with other scouts camped out at Hickory Run State Park in Carbon County. Malasics curled into a fetal position and played dead while the bear tossed him around like a beach ball.
The scout leader and other scouts tried creating a diversion by banging pots and pans and flashing car headlights. One report (http://cbs3.com/topstories/bear.attack.boy.2.374222.html) out of Pennsylvania described the bears reactions this way.
We as outdoor people should pay attention to the last sentence in the above – “The bear eventually wandered off”. It didn’t bolt, run, immediately head for the woods or any such thing. The bear “eventually” just simply “wandered” off. More and more bears have absolutely no fear at all of man and this spells potential danger. We must be made aware.
The boy was treated at a local hospital for cuts and bruises and will undergo rabies shots as a precaution.

I remember reading several web based newspapers and one did report him having snacks in the tent.Did he get the food:D


BTW, you don't play dead with a black bear; you poke his eyes out;)

rocketsocks
04-07-2012, 15:23
Did he get the food:D


BTW, you don't play dead with a black bear; you poke his eyes out;)And kick him in the Ding Ding!:eek:

Jack Tarlin
04-07-2012, 16:12
I see that this thread is alive and well, three weeks after its inception. Let the record show that as of this date, the staff at Mountain Crossings has lost track of the number of folks whose tree-hanged food was liberated by bears either directly North or directly South of Neel Gap. The number of folks who reported food thefts while their goods were with them in their tents is zero. I will let readers draw their own conclusions from these statistics.

Slo-go'en
04-08-2012, 12:03
The number of folks who reported food thefts while their goods were with them in their tents is zero. I will let readers draw their own conclusions from these statistics.

I wonder if that were to change if Yogi showed up for his meal and there were no easy to get hung food bags, but pleanty hiding in tents.

SouthMark
04-08-2012, 12:11
I wonder if that were to change if Yogi showed up for his meal and there were no easy to get hung food bags, but pleanty hiding in tents.

I sleep with my food also but it's nice to camp with someone that hangs theirs as a decoy :)

Pedaling Fool
04-08-2012, 13:09
I wonder if that were to change if Yogi showed up for his meal and there were no easy to get hung food bags, but pleanty hiding in tents.By that reasoning, which I don't entirely argue against, you have to ask yourself: When will they start taking down hikers to get to their foodbags when they're hiking? Or how about when they stop for lunch and eat, when are bears going to start 'rolling' hikers for their lunch? Does this mean you can't carry a food item and your pocket and eat and walk?

Bears in that area need to re-learn who exactly is higher on the food chain.

Wise Old Owl
04-08-2012, 13:29
"I remember" LOL That is part of the BS I'm talking about. It's the "my brother-in-law's, sister's friend told me.........." stuff.

Where in the first article does it state the attack was over food? The second article has no mention of food in the tent either. Of course bears are "looking" for food. That and mating is all they do. If I didn't know better, I would think you are trying to make MY point.

There have been recent deadly attacks in Yellowstone that had NOTHING to do with food. IMO should a rogue bear want in your tent, it matters not what is in there.


Remember -its the drive by news... total lack of detail for short attention spanner theater....The information was there when the articles were first written.


http://abcnews.go.com/US/grizzly-bear-kills-hiker-yellowstone-national-park/story?id=14014264#.T4HLTNkopP4

Yea Mother with cubs and you just changed it up to Grizzlies. I was talking about black.

vamelungeon
04-08-2012, 18:00
By that reasoning, which I don't entirely argue against, you have to ask yourself: When will they start taking down hikers to get to their foodbags when they're hiking? Or how about when they stop for lunch and eat, when are bears going to start 'rolling' hikers for their lunch? Does this mean you can't carry a food item and your pocket and eat and walk?

Bears in that area need to re-learn who exactly is higher on the food chain.
Bears that have no fear of humans are dangerous bears, and it's our fault they have no fear of us. Bears need to have a healthy fear of us if we are going to enjoy the outdoors. We need to instill this fear in them, and hunting pressure is one avenue. As someone else pointed out, the GSMNP is a perfect example of bears that arent' hunted and who have no fear of humans at all.
When there is a "problem" bear in my area the Va. Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries will trap it then basically "terrorize" the bear with fireworks, yelling, pepper spray and etc. to give the bear some negative feedback about humans, and this seems to be effective. We need to retrain bears that have no fear of humans, and it is entirely within our abilities to do it. Some bears have only had positive feedback with humans, with people feeding them on purpose, with bears raiding our garbage and hikers letting bears have their food.
We have created the problem and we can fix it very easily.

SouthMark
04-08-2012, 18:23
Bears that have no fear of humans are dangerous bears, and it's our fault they have no fear of us. Bears need to have a healthy fear of us if we are going to enjoy the outdoors. We need to instill this fear in them, and hunting pressure is one avenue. As someone else pointed out, the GSMNP is a perfect example of bears that arent' hunted and who have no fear of humans at all.
When there is a "problem" bear in my area the Va. Dept. of Game and Inland Fisheries will trap it then basically "terrorize" the bear with fireworks, yelling, pepper spray and etc. to give the bear some negative feedback about humans, and this seems to be effective. We need to retrain bears that have no fear of humans, and it is entirely within our abilities to do it. Some bears have only had positive feedback with humans, with people feeding them on purpose, with bears raiding our garbage and hikers letting bears have their food.
We have created the problem and we can fix it very easily. source: North American Bear Inststute

Myth: When bears lose their fear of people, they become more likely to attack source: North American Bear Inststutehttp://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/58-myth-when-bears-lose-their-fear-of-people-they-become-more-likely-to-attack.html

Pedaling Fool
04-08-2012, 19:40
source: North American Bear Inststute

Myth: When bears lose their fear of people, they become more likely to attack source: North American Bear Inststute

http://www.bear.org/website/bear-pages/black-bear/myths-a-misconceptions/58-myth-when-bears-lose-their-fear-of-people-they-become-more-likely-to-attack.html I agree with vamelungeon's post. I've read the little write-up before, but I do have some issues with it. My first issue is that this is written up by bear enthusiasts. I agree these guys are the experts, but even experts can become a little too enthusiastic in promoting their interests. I've seen this in a number of cases with wildlife experts that paint too rosey of a picture about certain predators and how they are not interested in eating humans, because it's not part of their normal diet. In general that may be true, but if a predator is hungry enough it's going to eat you, that's just natural. Even a black bear, which is not exactly what we think of as a predator will attack us as prey, if the circumstances are there. And the circumstances are not always a result of malnutrition, as some experts would have us believe.

I generally believe it's fairly safe to feed a black bear, as they say, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. What happens when you have a black bear that has lost its natural fear of humans and is hungry -- I mean really hungry? And you don't have food or you're a hiker that doesn't want to share your food? It seems to me that the cases they (bear experts) looked at involved people wanting to feed bears, bears that were not hungry (as in seriously hungry). But what if some hiker with food was eating lunch and did not want to share their food? I didn't see that scenario addressed.

It seems to me if you're going to feed bears and allow them to become habituated, then everyone must be on the same page, but of course that's not going to happen.


Even that link says this:

Conclusion


Bears that are used to seeing people are less likely to flee but are no more likely to come after people and hurt them than any other bear.
Does this mean people should approach wild bears and attempt to feed and pet them? Does it mean bears can live around people like pets?

No.

When people touch wild bears that are not used to being touched, the bears may shy away or occasionally nip or slap, causing minor injuries. Bear Center researchers do not consider these mild defensive reactions to be attacks.

In 40 years of working closely with wild black bears, Bear Center researchers have never had one come after them and hurt them.





BTW, I'll continue to keep my food in my tent.:sun

Jack Tarlin
04-08-2012, 20:32
Slogoen: I would never presume to tell someone what to with their tent, food, whatever. My contributions to this thread are merely to report facts, and in that I live in Neel Gap, i.e in Ground Zero for bear sightings, problems, etc. in North Georgia, this kinda puts me in a unique position. All I know is that there've been around 25 people I know of who had their food taken locally while it was tree-hung. The number of folks who've had their food taken while it was with them in their tents is zero. This includes people camping in crowds; it includes people camping alone. The number of folkls who've lost food from their tents is zero. I realize this fact may trouble some people, but it doesn't alter the facts: The food that has been taken near here by bears has been taken from trees. People may read into this whatever they wish.

vamelungeon
04-08-2012, 21:32
WWDBD?- What Would Daniel Boone Do? or did our 18th century explorers and pioneers hang food bags? Did they record bear attacks? Why or why not?

Wise Old Owl
04-08-2012, 21:58
WWDBD? - kill it. skin it. fire up the steaks. He had a rifle.

15692 He never wore a coon skin cap that was fiction.

ScottP
04-08-2012, 23:23
I see that this thread is alive and well, three weeks after its inception. Let the record show that as of this date, the staff at Mountain Crossings has lost track of the number of folks whose tree-hanged food was liberated by bears either directly North or directly South of Neel Gap. The number of folks who reported food thefts while their goods were with them in their tents is zero. I will let readers draw their own conclusions from these statistics.

yeah, but why would people listen to you? If they knew enough to tell good advice from bad advice, they probably wouldn't need the advice in the first place.

Wise Old Owl
04-08-2012, 23:38
http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg275/MarkSwarbrick/watch.jpg

stranger
04-09-2012, 10:24
Slogoen: I would never presume to tell someone what to with their tent, food, whatever. My contributions to this thread are merely to report facts, and in that I live in Neel Gap, i.e in Ground Zero for bear sightings, problems, etc. in North Georgia, this kinda puts me in a unique position. All I know is that there've been around 25 people I know of who had their food taken locally while it was tree-hung. The number of folks who've had their food taken while it was with them in their tents is zero. This includes people camping in crowds; it includes people camping alone. The number of folkls who've lost food from their tents is zero. I realize this fact may trouble some people, but it doesn't alter the facts: The food that has been taken near here by bears has been taken from trees. People may read into this whatever they wish.

Fair enough Jack, and you have repeated this fact...people who sleep with their food aren't losing their food bags...great!


However, how many thru-hikers have been through Neels Gap this year? Now, how many of those have lost their food bags? Lastly, how many thru-hikers actually know how to execute a solid PCT Hang by the time they reach Neels Gap?

I've seen hundreds of food bags hung in my day, most of them are useless.

WingedMonkey
04-09-2012, 14:39
WWDBD?- What Would Daniel Boone Do? or did our 18th century explorers and pioneers hang food bags? Did they record bear attacks? Why or why not?

The parties that Boone and others led into Carolina and Kentucky most likely built a bear cache where they stopped. Even thought they weren't carrying the Snickers and other bear treats we carry today, what they did carry was too valuable and too hard to replace to leave it to chance.
Don't mean I'm going to build a bear cache today.

:sun

rocketsocks
04-09-2012, 15:41
Daniel had no trouble with "Bahrs",when he met one he gave it the ole :D.A good "Grin" can cure just about anything.Even a bear attack."Cause I saw it on TV";)

MuddyWaters
04-09-2012, 19:05
Whoever said you hang your food to protect it????? That certainly isnt what we were taught in scouts. You hang your food to protect YOU .

Common sense says that YOU have to be safer without the food in the tent.

Now if you want to protect the food, and the bear, you need to hang it well. Very very very well. I

In actuality, the amount you are safer may be very small, but it should be safer nonetheless, for you.

I will suggest that if you had food in your pack, to a nose as sensitive as as bears (better than a bloodhound) , everything you have still has residual food smells on it, your tent, your sleeping bag, your clothes, etc all smell like food to some extent. The reason the bear leaves it alone, (most of the time), is that it can tell its not strong enough odor to be worthwhile, and he just really doesnt want anything to do with you.

Jack Tarlin
04-09-2012, 21:36
Stranger: In answer to your direct questions: I do not know how many attempting thru-hikers have been thru Neel Gap this year....nobody does. We have a log book that frequently goes unsigned, no matter where we put it. As to the percentrage of folks passing thru who've lost their food....again, I have no idea. And I absolutely agree with you in that I suspect that most of the tree-hung food that has been lost this year was hung low or hung poorly, but not being a personal witness to this, who knows....As has been stated previosuly, we have no "set" policy here at Neel Gap... we merely answer people's questions. We tell them what we know about risk from bears, especially as regards specific end-of-day destinations, campsites, etc. But do we tell people what they should do with their food? No, we do not. If they wish to join the two dozen people who've hung their food and lost it, well, this is their choice. One of the great things aout Trail Life is that people get the chance to decide for themselves what works for them. That being said.....when people say such things as "Common sense indicates that you're better off without food in your tent...", well this may be perfectly true in Montana. In North Georgia in the midst of thru-hiking season, there are statistics that would argue with this, but as I've said already, people can read and learn facts and then do with them whatever they wish. As a study, here's this: I know of a dozen people camping within two tenthsd of a mile of here tonight.......some will bearhang. Most probably won't. I'll certainly check in tomorrow, after breakfat time, with a fatality report for those who think this is a really burning issue.

ChinMusic
04-09-2012, 21:42
Now if you want to protect the food, and the bear, you need to hang it well. Very very very well.


Correct. Hanging, as it is practiced, kills bears..........and leaves the hiker short on food.

HiKen2011
04-09-2012, 21:52
The bear population has exploded here over the last few yrs. More bear hunting season would be one answer IMHO

generoll
04-09-2012, 21:55
Well, come on over and get one for us. We do have a bear season.

Two Speed
04-09-2012, 22:10
And that, in my opinion would be the solution to the problem. Pick off the problem bear, problem solved. Let the problem bear raise a few cubs and it's game on.

HiKen2011
04-09-2012, 22:18
Well, come on over and get one for us. We do have a bear season.

We have a bear season here to (50 plus taken in one weekend in the cohutta wilderness) but it is very short! It needs to be extended IMHO, or at least a winter and spring hunt. They seem to be more active in the spring.

stranger
04-10-2012, 09:15
Stranger: In answer to your direct questions: I do not know how many attempting thru-hikers have been thru Neel Gap this year....nobody does. We have a log book that frequently goes unsigned, no matter where we put it. As to the percentrage of folks passing thru who've lost their food....again, I have no idea. And I absolutely agree with you in that I suspect that most of the tree-hung food that has been lost this year was hung low or hung poorly, but not being a personal witness to this, who knows....As has been stated previosuly, we have no "set" policy here at Neel Gap... we merely answer people's questions. We tell them what we know about risk from bears, especially as regards specific end-of-day destinations, campsites, etc. But do we tell people what they should do with their food? No, we do not. If they wish to join the two dozen people who've hung their food and lost it, well, this is their choice. One of the great things aout Trail Life is that people get the chance to decide for themselves what works for them. That being said.....when people say such things as "Common sense indicates that you're better off without food in your tent...", well this may be perfectly true in Montana. In North Georgia in the midst of thru-hiking season, there are statistics that would argue with this, but as I've said already, people can read and learn facts and then do with them whatever they wish. As a study, here's this: I know of a dozen people camping within two tenthsd of a mile of here tonight.......some will bearhang. Most probably won't. I'll certainly check in tomorrow, after breakfat time, with a fatality report for those who think this is a really burning issue.

Apologies if my questions seemed a little too literal...they were more or less meant to demonstrate that the vast majorty of hikers have not lost their food, regardless of which method they use, I'm assuming this is correct.

I don't have a problem with people sleeping with their food, again...it's a time proven method of many years in Grizzly country. I can see how those with less experience or understanding of bears would see this as risky, at best it's counter-intuative, but as for dangerous? I don't think so, not in the Appalachians.

I just wanted to point out that a rock solid, PCT hang is going to get the job done in 98% of circumstances...but it will take the average northbound thru-hiker hundreds of miles to hone this skill. Clearly sleeping with your food is working as well, then there are bear canisters and hiking through without stopping...plenty of options for hikers.

max patch
04-10-2012, 14:50
Jack, is this regulation being enforced? Any reports of tickets issued?

Jack Tarlin
04-10-2012, 21:37
1. I absolutley agree with Stranger in suspecting that most of the "tree-hung" foodbags were taken because they were improperly hung.
2. To Max: To date, and I've been working long hours and have been here all day for weeks, nobody (i.e zero people) have reported into anyone here at Neel Gap
that they were cited, fined, etc. for violating the bear cannister regulation. This doiesn't mesan it hasn't happened. All I'm saying is that we haven't heard about
it happening, tho whether this is to due to lenient nice-guy rangers turning a blind eye to obvious ignoring of posted regulations, or more likely, the absence of
rangers up there altogether, well this is anybody's guess. But if anyone's been cited, fined, arrested, etc....well, no, we haven't heard about it.

flemdawg1
04-11-2012, 10:30
Are there any regulations against hanging a food bag and shooting a bear that comes after it? And when is GA's bear season? It's not exactly sporting, but it solves a problem.

Lone Wolf
04-11-2012, 10:33
they bait 'em in maine

http://daysbearbait.com/

SouthMark
04-11-2012, 11:03
they bait 'em in maine

http://daysbearbait.com/

Not just Maine. I know that they bait them in Minnesota.

max patch
04-11-2012, 11:05
Are there any regulations against hanging a food bag and shooting a bear that comes after it? And when is GA's bear season? It's not exactly sporting, but it solves a problem.

The purpose of the regulation is to avoid exactly what you are suggesting.

flemdawg1
04-11-2012, 17:46
But its not camping, its hunting.

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 21:59
Whoever said you hang your food to protect it????? That certainly isnt what we were taught in scouts. You hang your food to protect YOU .

Common sense says that YOU have to be safer without the food in the tent.

Now if you want to protect the food, and the bear, you need to hang it well. Very very very well. I

In actuality, the amount you are safer may be very small, but it should be safer nonetheless, for you.

I will suggest that if you had food in your pack, to a nose as sensitive as as bears (better than a bloodhound) , everything you have still has residual food smells on it, your tent, your sleeping bag, your clothes, etc all smell like food to some extent. The reason the bear leaves it alone, (most of the time), is that it can tell its not strong enough odor to be worthwhile, and he just really doesnt want anything to do with you.

Unless I misunderstood your point, I have seen a Nat Geo on bears where it broke into a car to get the bubble gum in the back seat.

ChinMusic
04-11-2012, 22:06
Unless I misunderstood your point, I have seen a Nat Geo on bears where it broke into a car to get the bubble gum in the back seat.

This is a perfect example of the BS I was talking about before. "where it broke into a car to get the bubble gum in the back seat"???? Paleeeeeeze

That is such incredible BS I don't know where to start. Did they interrogate the bear after the breaking and entering and get him to confess to having his eyes on the gum?

Nah, it couldn't be that the bear had been rewarded before for breaking into a car and just happened to find gum.

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 22:24
Chin - that Nat Geo video was taken at Yellowstone and I have no idea what you are rambling about -

Here's the Clingman Dome video that similar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnGe9HDGBI

From Yosemite Website.

Yosemite National Park is home to hundreds of American black bears; these bears have a voracious appetite. They also are incredibly curious and have an amazing sense of smell. This combination tempts them to seek our high-calorie food. Sometimes bears that routinely get our food become aggressive, and sometimes have to be killed as a result. By storing your food properly, you can prevent a bear's unnecessary death. Please note that these food storage regulations have the force and effect of federal law: Failure to store your food properly may result in impoundment of your food or car and/or a fine of up to $5,000 and/or revocation of your camping permit.


http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/images/beardamagetocar_2.jpg Bears will break into cars to investigate any object that smells or looks like food.

What is Food?
"Food" includes any item with a scent, regardless of packaging. This may include items that you do not consider food, such as canned goods, bottles, drinks, soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, trash, ice chests (even when empty), and unwashed items used for preparing or eating meals. All these items must be stored properly.
How to Store Your Food...
In your car
You may store food inside your car (out of sight, with windows completely closed) only during daylight hours. You may not leave food in a pickup truck bed or strapped to the outside of a vehicle at any time. Do not store food in your car after dark: use a food locker (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/lockers.htm). Remember to clear your car of food wrappers, crumbs in baby seats, and baby wipes. Even canned food and drinks must be removed from your car.
Food lockers (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/lockers.htm) are available at Curry Village parking lots and at nearly all trailhead parking areas.

ChinMusic
04-11-2012, 22:39
My "problem" is the the claim that the bear broke into the car for the gum. Where is the the "gum" evidence? It's like the BS about breaking into a tent "because of a candy wrapper".

I am SURE that every car in that parking lot had a french fry under the seat too.

Of freaking course they are going to break into an unoccupied car with food in it.

Thanks for making my point with that.

coach lou
04-11-2012, 22:41
WOO, that was great! I have seen a similar video from Yosemite Parking lot.... Mama bear was instructing Booboo how with a flic between glass and pillar---------- DINNER!!!!

Wise Old Owl
04-11-2012, 22:59
Chin, I watch a documentary shot in national parks that deal with problem bears... its the drive by media - bear breaks into a car with no food in it... the family left the car and the kids put the freshly chewed gum on the back seat... no idea that would cause a bear to break in... tear up the seats. The bear goes by the smells - even the smallest smell. I don't sit around watching a lot of these videos but it was in the last two years or recent.

I really take offense to your use of "BS" as you are calling me a liar.

ChinMusic
04-11-2012, 23:06
I really take offense to your use of "BS" as you are calling me a liar.


I am NOT calling you a liar. I think you believe what you posted...............

Northern Lights
04-11-2012, 23:27
[QUOTE=Wise Old Owl;1276865]Chin - that Nat Geo video was taken at Yellowstone and I have no idea what you are rambling about -

Here's the Clingman Dome video that similar

Dear Lord Baby Jesus!

That is the dumbest video I have ever seen, not only did people stand around watching the bear they did nothing to distract it. What does that say? Yeah we'll just stand here and video you for entertainment value while we teach you it's ok to steal from our cars.

Our bears in Canada are much larger than yours and we don't screw around for entertainment purposes.

Dumb, dumb, dumb on everyone's part here.

ChinMusic
04-11-2012, 23:36
The video DID teach me a lesson. Do NOT leave your windows ajar. It gives the bears a tremendous advantage when they try to "break into my car for that lone french fry that they can smell from 50 yards".

Pedaling Fool
04-12-2012, 09:26
Chin - that Nat Geo video was taken at Yellowstone and I have no idea what you are rambling about -

Here's the Clingman Dome video that similar


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fBnGe9HDGBI

From Yosemite Website.

Yosemite National Park is home to hundreds of American black bears; these bears have a voracious appetite. They also are incredibly curious and have an amazing sense of smell. This combination tempts them to seek our high-calorie food. Sometimes bears that routinely get our food become aggressive, and sometimes have to be killed as a result. By storing your food properly, you can prevent a bear's unnecessary death. Please note that these food storage regulations have the force and effect of federal law: Failure to store your food properly may result in impoundment of your food or car and/or a fine of up to $5,000 and/or revocation of your camping permit.


http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/images/beardamagetocar_2.jpg Bears will break into cars to investigate any object that smells or looks like food.

What is Food?
"Food" includes any item with a scent, regardless of packaging. This may include items that you do not consider food, such as canned goods, bottles, drinks, soaps, cosmetics, toiletries, trash, ice chests (even when empty), and unwashed items used for preparing or eating meals. All these items must be stored properly.
How to Store Your Food...
In your car
You may store food inside your car (out of sight, with windows completely closed) only during daylight hours. You may not leave food in a pickup truck bed or strapped to the outside of a vehicle at any time. Do not store food in your car after dark: use a food locker (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/lockers.htm). Remember to clear your car of food wrappers, crumbs in baby seats, and baby wipes. Even canned food and drinks must be removed from your car.
Food lockers (http://www.nps.gov/yose/planyourvisit/lockers.htm) are available at Curry Village parking lots and at nearly all trailhead parking areas.That video is nothing more than mindless entertainment for the masses and really has nothing to do with the subject of the thread. He obviously has lost his fear of humans...I wonder why:rolleyes:

That must have been a lot of gum in that car:D

coach lou
04-12-2012, 09:34
The girl in pink looks tasty..... from a bears view point that is.

xokie
04-12-2012, 11:48
15705Who's the food?

scissor
04-12-2012, 13:21
This is a perfect example of the BS I was talking about before. "where it broke into a car to get the bubble gum in the back seat"???? Paleeeeeeze

That is such incredible BS I don't know where to start. Did they interrogate the bear after the breaking and entering and get him to confess to having his eyes on the gum?

Nah, it couldn't be that the bear had been rewarded before for breaking into a car and just happened to find gum.

I know a car that was broken into by a bear and it was empty except for a hanging Christmas tree air freshner and the unharmed car next to it had a food bag in it with processed packaged foods like tuna, crackers, snickers etc. I'm guessing they tend to be going after the smell more than anything and gum can have a pretty powerful smell.

rocketsocks
04-12-2012, 14:35
I know a car that was broken into by a bear and it was empty except for a hanging Christmas tree air freshener and the unharmed car next to it had a food bag in it with processed packaged foods like tuna, crackers, snickers etc. I'm guessing they tend to be going after the smell more than anything and gum can have a pretty powerful smell.Maybe that bear was a vegetarian.:D

atmilkman
04-12-2012, 14:52
I think the people in the video should have put honey on their faces and got pics of bear kisses. It would almost be as good as putting your kid on a buffalo in Yellowstone. Have you ever seen them trying to do that? I couldn't believe it the first time I saw that. I may not get to town that often, but some of those folks (Clingmans and Yellowstone) have never been in the outdoors.

Wise Old Owl
04-12-2012, 15:02
I love that video - its clearly what not to do... put down the camera and call a Ranger or someone....

Chin - all is forgotten.

rocketsocks
04-12-2012, 15:04
If in that was my car and a "Park Bear"broke in,I would have walked right up there and spanked his little patutty,and then kicked em in the Ding Ding!