View Full Version : Bears and (probably most certainly) irrational fears.
underscored
03-21-2012, 00:47
First. I've gotten a ton of help in the other thread I started a week ago - so lots of thanks for that.
Second. I am not "scared" of much. The dark, noises, unknowns. Whatever. I'm comfortable enough with nature and outside and little critters and medium critters and bugs that I just don't care. They don't bother me and I don't bother them.
The problem. I have seen a bear - exactly once in my life - in northern Michigan when I was way way younger. (10 years old maybe?) It was from a distance, and scurried off as soon as it heard us pounding down the 2-track. Lately, the thought of coming across a bear on the AT freaks me out. It's dumb, I know - that is their domain long before mine. So I'm curious - what's the "typical" behavior of one of these furry beasts? They hear you and scurry? They hear you and keep on grazing/nosing about? They hear you - smell in your direction - and then get the heck out of there? If one doesn't scurry - is it reasonable to make a loud noise and maybe chuck a rock nearby to make more noise and get it the hell out of there?
I've read plenty on what to do if one shows you attention - but I don't know what to expect for all the other "normal" scenarios. Last thing I want to do is come up on one and let the dude smell any fear. I think if I know /reasonably/ how the furry beast is going to react to my presence, then I'm all good.
Food maintenance - there's plenty of other threads on this, so I won't pound it here. I'll take the best advice I come across and go with the collective consciousness of peoples much smarter and experienced than I.
Big Dawg
03-21-2012, 01:37
First. I've gotten a ton of help in the other thread I started a week ago - so lots of thanks for that.
Second. I am not "scared" of much. The dark, noises, unknowns. Whatever. I'm comfortable enough with nature and outside and little critters and medium critters and bugs that I just don't care. They don't bother me and I don't bother them.
The problem. I have seen a bear - exactly once in my life - in northern Michigan when I was way way younger. (10 years old maybe?) It was from a distance, and scurried off as soon as it heard us pounding down the 2-track. Lately, the thought of coming across a bear on the AT freaks me out. It's dumb, I know - that is their domain long before mine. So I'm curious - what's the "typical" behavior of one of these furry beasts? They hear you and scurry? They hear you and keep on grazing/nosing about? They hear you - smell in your direction - and then get the heck out of there? If one doesn't scurry - is it reasonable to make a loud noise and maybe chuck a rock nearby to make more noise and get it the hell out of there?
I've read plenty on what to do if one shows you attention - but I don't know what to expect for all the other "normal" scenarios. Last thing I want to do is come up on one and let the dude smell any fear. I think if I know /reasonably/ how the furry beast is going to react to my presence, then I'm all good.
Food maintenance - there's plenty of other threads on this, so I won't pound it here. I'll take the best advice I come across and go with the collective consciousness of peoples much smarter and experienced than I.
I look forward to the day I finally see a bear on the trail. I hope I have enough time to get my camera out and snap a shot before it scurries off.
"Typical behavior"? From all the info I've heard over the years, yes to all you mentioned. Yes, make loud noises if it sticks around and seems like it might bother you. I wouldn't throw a rock in it's direction. The first thing I'll do upon seeing a bear is to make sure I'm not inbetween a mama bear and it's cubs, otherwise let the photo session begin.
Food maintenance? LNT, and I personally feel that sleeping w/ my food is the best option.
underscored
03-21-2012, 01:45
I look forward to the day I finally see a bear on the trail. I hope I have enough time to get my camera out and snap a shot before it scurries off.
That was my initial thought and understanding - I'm probably just spending too much time reading about encounters after I get burnt out on detail and logistics planning.
My (going along the irrational thoughts of bears abound...) hope is that because I'm not using any of the shelters - That all those delicious hanging bags of food keep the bears busy and they don't go a bit further away for me and mine.
Thanks for the response!
The one bear I've seen on the trail (PCT), I was lucky enough to have my camera already in hand. It didn't see or hear me for a while, so I quietly walked forward and hid behind a tree while I worked on composing better shots. Eventually I stepped out into the trail, the bear looked up and took a while to realize what I was, and then it bolted up the mountain.
I've seen more in the kitchen area of trail crew camps at night, and I chased those away without much problem. The only problem was that they'd only run a short distance away, perhaps thinking that I had a dim headlight and couldn't see them anymore, but a few tossed pieces of lumber and more shouting drove them away for the rest of the night.
TheCheek
03-21-2012, 08:19
Aside from one thru hike with 22 bear sightings (roughly 16 separate encounters due to cubs) I have limited experience.
Based on this limited data set my guess is bear behavior is at least partly influenced by where you are on the trail. If you are in a place where bears likely see a lot of people, like either of the national parks, bears will not be as likely to scurry off before you get a good look. The most heart pounding encounter I had was with a large momma bear who had 3 cubs up a tree and no desire to run, just stared me down as i got my butt out of there.
But yes they generally run away and you often don't get a good look at them. When you do get a good look it generally isn't like you're thinking gee let me set down my pack and get a snapshot. A lot more experience and probably its no big deal... only got 2 photos out of all of the encounters.
Dont worry about bears, I feel blessed every time I have seen a bear. They have always been running away. In 5 years of A.T. hiking with around 4000 miles hiked I have seen maybe 7 bears.
I've encountered about four in the GSMNP last year. One good sized one by myself and a huge mother of two cubs I accidentally walked up on. Another that was just around the corner of the trail so I left. Each time I think I won't be spooked my knees end up shaking, lol.
They are beautiful but WILD and UNPREDICTABLE. IMO, the main thing to look for is if they change their behavior and take an interest in you, approach you, follow you ect...
http://www.nps.gov/grsm/naturescience/black-bears.htm
This above is a good link for bear encounters.
I think it depends on what the bear has been accustomed to. In general the take off. But they might have an interest. If it's been a bad crop year they may decide to investigate your smells of food.
What I know for sure is that there is not one answer for all. Sometimes each region and circumstance will present a unique issue.
I will always do what is right in my heart to keep my food and waste from coming into contact with bears. Watch them from a safe distance and respect them and their home.
fiddlehead
03-21-2012, 08:55
There's a big difference between bears that are hunted and bears in National Parks.
If they are hunted (most bears) then you probably won't see them.
They have a great sense of smell and will be long gone before you see them.
There are times when the wind is blowing the wrong way, or you somehow sneak up on them, or they are watching their young. Then you scare them and that is not good. (for you)
That's when you use the techniques you learned about not showing fear or aggression (at the same time)
Park bears are different. They are more like Yogi.
They are good at getting your food, and not much danger to humans.
They are not afraid of you. (not normal)
They are used to people around and tend to ignore them. (more interested in the food)
They are not normal and there is the occasional bad one or relocated one.
If you are worried about them coming at night while you are sleeping and getting your food, just camp where others don't.
They know where the easy food is. (usually where people hang it)
Griz is different again. Smarter, smells better, protected more, etc.
You are probably talking about the AT so, now use in discussing Griz.
coach lou
03-21-2012, 10:31
Once ,near Peru Peak Shelter[LT/AT] I came around the corner and there it was... he saw me and took off, I actually scared the crap out of him[it was sprayed all over the trail, where he ran]. My times in Jellystone and Glacier are alittle different...... Griz don't scare very easily, they stop, they look, they sniff. If you are still near by when they are sniffing, well....I'm sure it will be a great story!
underscored
03-21-2012, 12:30
Yeah, I never even really /considered/ bears other than part of might be out there (and I admit, even with the weird out of the blue fear, how amazing to actually come across one? Seriously.) - but it's been a strange one over the last couple days after long research days the "bear" thoughts start. This thread has helped and pretty much confirms what I had thought/been thinking prior to making this AT trip a go.
Thanks much everyone!
Last year I hiked in a Wilderness Area in Georgia and in 4-5 miles I saw 3 bears, one was big. Each time I stopped walking and just in a calm voice said "Hey Bear!" "Hey Bear, walking here bear!" Two of the three IMMEDIATELY bolted. One of those two stopped maybe 200-300 yards up a hill (couldn't see anymore) and started huffing and snapping its jaw, I just kept saying HEY BEAR and then I heard it high tail it off. One (the biggest one) I came upon 100-120 yards up the road as I rounded a corner. He/she was big, I said Hey BEAR! and it looked at me, moving its head side to side then sauntered off down into a gully. As I walked past that area I was a little freaked out cause I didn't hear or see it run away and it sauntered off not very concerned about it. As I walked by I just kept talking loudly.
I thought I was fine with it but that night I was freaked out. I was hiking by myself, just my little 18lb dog and I just plain got freaked out. I felt like there were bears all around me, sneaking up on me, every shadow was a bear, ergh...just did not sleep well that night. I kept wishing I had a hiking buddy or a pistol, either one would have given me a little comfort I think. Of course slept find, no incident and I hiked out the next day feeling silly for worrying so much. Didn't feel silly that night though.
RedBeerd
03-21-2012, 14:18
As a solo hiker this thread does bring some comfort. If anyone has been mauled, please dont share!
I've said it before and I'll say it again. Sasquatch herpes, that's all I'm worried about.
There's a big difference between bears that are hunted and bears in National Parks.
If they are hunted (most bears) then you probably won't see them.
They have a great sense of smell and will be long gone before you see them.
There are times when the wind is blowing the wrong way, or you somehow sneak up on them, or they are watching their young. Then you scare them and that is not good. (for you)
That's when you use the techniques you learned about not showing fear or aggression (at the same time)
Park bears are different. They are more like Yogi.
They are good at getting your food, and not much danger to humans.
They are not afraid of you. (not normal)
They are used to people around and tend to ignore them. (more interested in the food)
They are not normal and there is the occasional bad one or relocated one.
If you are worried about them coming at night while you are sleeping and getting your food, just camp where others don't.
They know where the easy food is. (usually where people hang it)
Griz is different again. Smarter, smells better, protected more, etc.
You are probably talking about the AT so, now use in discussing Griz.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
bamboo bob
03-21-2012, 17:53
I've encountered 45 bears. They all took off quickly. If I see bear sign then I make more noise than usual. But they are just not a problem on the trail from what I've seen.
stranger
03-21-2012, 18:27
First. I've gotten a ton of help in the other thread I started a week ago - so lots of thanks for that.
Second. I am not "scared" of much. The dark, noises, unknowns. Whatever. I'm comfortable enough with nature and outside and little critters and medium critters and bugs that I just don't care. They don't bother me and I don't bother them.
The problem. I have seen a bear - exactly once in my life - in northern Michigan when I was way way younger. (10 years old maybe?) It was from a distance, and scurried off as soon as it heard us pounding down the 2-track. Lately, the thought of coming across a bear on the AT freaks me out. It's dumb, I know - that is their domain long before mine. So I'm curious - what's the "typical" behavior of one of these furry beasts? They hear you and scurry? They hear you and keep on grazing/nosing about? They hear you - smell in your direction - and then get the heck out of there? If one doesn't scurry - is it reasonable to make a loud noise and maybe chuck a rock nearby to make more noise and get it the hell out of there?
I've read plenty on what to do if one shows you attention - but I don't know what to expect for all the other "normal" scenarios. Last thing I want to do is come up on one and let the dude smell any fear. I think if I know /reasonably/ how the furry beast is going to react to my presence, then I'm all good.
Food maintenance - there's plenty of other threads on this, so I won't pound it here. I'll take the best advice I come across and go with the collective consciousness of peoples much smarter and experienced than I.
Fear is often irrational but that doesn't make it any easier. There are things to be mindful about on the trail, Lyme Disease comes to mind, but I wouldn't put bears in this category.
Learn the PCT Method of hanging food, you will be fine! Learn about preventing Lyme, a far greater risk and far more likely, and even then, still quite rare.
More worried about the Billhillies than the bears...
Lone Wolf
03-21-2012, 21:20
More worried about the Billhillies than the bears...
what is that?
Blissful
03-21-2012, 21:37
I saw four on my hikes north and south.
gunner76
03-21-2012, 21:40
hike faster, I hear banjo music
Big Dawg
03-22-2012, 01:40
what is that?
you ever seen Deliverance?
underscored
03-22-2012, 01:50
you ever seen Deliverance?
NOT watching that before the trip - my old man already hums the song every time I stop by.
Big Dawg
03-22-2012, 04:28
NOT watching that before the trip - my old man already hums the song every time I stop by.
Smart decision!
A billhillie/hillbillie w/ a banjo, a gun, and a twinkle in his eye,,,,, now that's something to be afraid of. :eek:
hikerboy57
03-22-2012, 07:10
ive seen bear crap a lot more than ive seen bears.ive encountered black bears maybe a couple of dozen times in my life and every time, theyve run away. ive slept safely and soundly with my food, although i will put it in a bear box if one is available. i just dont see the sense in hanging.
bigcranky
03-22-2012, 08:26
Hey, underscored, don't worry about the bears. Seriously. We've seen a bunch, and they either sit there and look at you, or run away. Or sometimes they run a few meters then sit and look at you. Depends on how hot it is -- we had one encounter with a bear in Shenandoah when it was about 85-F in early June, and the poor dude was lying down in the shade right next to the trail. When we walked up on him, he got up, walked a few paces away from us, and just stood there. He was clearly just as hot and miserable as we were, and we just kept walking. In Georgia in mid June one year my ~12 year old daughter surprised a young bear who was in tall grass by the side of the trail. I think the bear jumped higher than she did. He ran about 25 feet, then stopped and watched us, very curious.
My own personal feeling is that bears telegraph their feelings through body and facial language. If you can read a dog, you can read a bear. Curious, scared, calm, whatever.
Respect bears, but don't be scared of them.
Lone Wolf
03-22-2012, 09:32
you ever seen Deliverance?
yes, why?.......
Saw nine bears on my thru-hike, 8 of them in Shenandoah NP. They did what the dozens I have encountered before and since did. They ran away, quickly.
Don't sweat the bears. Cold and severe heat are much bigger dangers.
More often than not you will get a good look at the a$$ end of a bear as it's running away from you. Has anyone acually ever been attacked by a bear on the AT?
Before my I left for my 07 hiking season we watched deliverance at a slow day at work in the kitchen.
Is your mouth purty?
turtle fast
03-22-2012, 20:15
I have had a bear parade in the Porcupine Mountains of the Upper Peninsula of Michigan once during a solo night hike on the North Country Trail. It was pitch black so I had to use my headlamp and I just got to a little road walk, I had some noise behind me. I turn around still walking to get the eyeshine of a bear, then a bit of fur flash in the light...then another set of eyes, then another...they were all at roughly the same level. I just kept hiking...for quite awhile down the pitch black road..no moonlight only some stars for company being followed in this bear parade...no cars or anything on the road...then my light died a slow death. I just kept going until the noise left and I did not see anymore darker contrast against the road when my eyes adjusted to the darkness better. Just curious bears I thought. On the AT they just run away.
Big Dawg
03-23-2012, 00:36
More worried about the Billhillies than the bears...
what is that?
you ever seen Deliverance?
yes, why?.......
figured if you'd seen Deliverance, then you'd know the answer to your first question. assuming you get the play on words... billhillie/hillbillie,,, not that all hillbillies are Deliverance style. Some of my best friends are hillbillies (of the safe and tame variety:))
I've encountered five bears over the years (not on the AT -- I've only hiked a little of the AT) and not a single one ran when it saw me. I must not look very threatening:rolleyes:. Four just slowly sauntered away after noting my presence and one juvenile walked about twenty yards to the side of the trail and then stopped and watched me for a bit out of curiosity. None of them did anything threatening. I will tell you the one variable which alters my perception of the encounter the most: I found seeing a bear while hiking by myself more unsettling than seeing one when I was hiking with at least one other person. But on balance I feel the same about seeing bears while backpacking as I do about seeing other wildlife -- it's a cool experience and one of the things that makes hiking great!
My philosophy about bear encounters can be summed up by an old Dylan lyric: "You go your way and I'll go mine." I don't pack a camera when I hike so I don't spend much time gawking at the bear or trying to get that perfect camera shot. I feel like stopping and gawking for any length of time seems disrespectful to the bear. I feel like I'm in its home and I should just be a guest passing through and cause that bear as little fuss and worry as possible.
rocketsocks
03-23-2012, 01:55
figured if you'd seen Deliverance, then you'd know the answer to your first question. assuming you get the play on words... billhillie/hillbillie,,, not that all hillbillies are Deliverance style. Some of my best friends are hillbillies (of the safe and tame variety:))I decend from hill people,and I never get tired of watchin folks Crawfish;)like in the movie.:)
To me, personal injury is 1000x more of a concern than a bear attack or issue.
Just completed my Spring Section hike in SW Virginia............there are a LOT of spots where one wrong step and you are headed down a pretty steep and long incline. I estimate that I take 20,000 - 25,000 steps each day hiking on the AT............have seen 3 bears in 5 years and 1250 miles.
Seeing a bear and all of the other great mother nature sightings is a blessing.........after all, we are in THEIR living room not ours.
underscored
03-23-2012, 20:47
No more bear fears for me! Thanks again all - you pretty much confirmed what I had thought - I'll be lucky to see a bear rear-end headed the other way. That being said, I'm going to be solo 99.9% of the time - I'm sure my heart rate will get going a bit when I turn a corner and "ohhh hello there Mr. Bear, ok, bye bye!"
Now... about those billhillies.... *banjo plays*
Big Dawg
03-23-2012, 23:37
Now... about those billhillies.... *banjo plays*
Just don't camp near roads,,, even the back-country roads that don't seem used. Billhillies usually like to be near their truck and fiddle.
Big Dawg
03-23-2012, 23:41
even the back-country roads that don't seem used.
example... the back-country road near Catpen Gap in NC, just south of Hot Springs. DON'T CAMP THERE. You'll find out soon enough that a hunters campground is right around the corner.
underscored
03-24-2012, 01:10
When I-40 was all destroyed from the rock slide at the TN-NC border (year ago? two years ago?) I had to make a couple trips north and ended up thru Hot Springs and surrounding areas. Interesting neck of the woods would be an understatement. I loved the vibe though.