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Mikey Appleseed
03-21-2012, 11:34
Howdy All Blazers, the great John Muir said, "A man has to know his limitations" How do you find your limitations? Ive come to the conclusion that you must exceed your limits, in order to find them. Thats why I beleive most hikers will never realize there potential. When I section hike, I let myself stretch those limits way more than thru hiking, I end up leaving alot of energy unused and wasted on my thrus, because of the fear of not having anything left in the tank. Comfortability with your trail helps ease the fear. Thoughts, questions, comments, appreciated. I have a couple big questions, will my limited social skills hurt my chances at a successful thru of the AT? Could I hike the AT without talking?

max patch
03-21-2012, 12:35
Google Ward Leonard. Mr Leonard is one of the strongest -- perhaps THE strongest -- AT hikers and his limited social skills certainly didn't slow him down (pun intended). Mr Leonard has thru hiked the AT at least 10 times.

Spokes
03-21-2012, 13:02
Knowing your limits? As they say in ultra running circles "If there's no bones showing, keep going."

Remember, even the quietest hiker can get on other peoples nerves.

Ktaadn
03-21-2012, 13:04
Is this what you meant when you said "limited social skills"?

http://lonelypolicebox.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/ward-leonard-spell-check-and-publish/

I don't think that was the kind of stuff that the OP was referring to.

Anyway, I'm not a thru hiker but I don't see any reason why someone couldn't be successful without talking. I'm not an overly social person but I'll usually say hi when I pass someone. It just feels right to me. If the other person doesn't say anything back, I'm not offended.

tiptoe
03-21-2012, 13:12
I think it depends on your tolerance for risk as to whether you push your limits or opt for a conservative approach. Of course sometimes you have to go outside your comfort level to get out of a bad spot.

PapaGarrettP
03-21-2012, 13:21
I'm not much of a talker either. But when I hike down a really steep mountain to the bottom of a gap and meet someone who just came down the other side, I find that remarks along the lines of, "Wait until you see what you have in front of you," naturally lead to some good-natured fellowship.

max patch
03-21-2012, 13:26
Is this what you meant when you said "limited social skills"?

http://lonelypolicebox.wordpress.com/2011/11/07/ward-leonard-spell-check-and-publish/

I don't think that was the kind of stuff that the OP was referring to.



no, that is not what i was referring to.

garlic08
03-21-2012, 14:05
If you haven't puked from exertion, you haven't reached your limit. Try it sometime. Muir was right.

RedBeerd
03-21-2012, 14:21
Pushing limitations can be dangerous. Be gradual with things!

Mikey Appleseed
03-21-2012, 15:35
On the social skills thing, im just more comfortable being a shadow. New friendships "on trail" have changed my hiking regiment, and have left me sad for missing them. So a "self limitation" of future friendships that I can handle, seemed like a reasonable approach to hiking the highly traveled AT. I asked because im trying to find the fine line, that will be just right, dont want to make waves either. Im also a west coast guy and perhaps nieve to the realitys of the different land and culture, its kinda scary. I like Muir, but that quote still boggles me. Frankly, a man has to know ALOT of things...............-Me Thanks everyone.

Slo-go'en
03-21-2012, 15:38
The trick is to know when to back off when you approch your limits. Actually exceeding them can result in injury. This is especially true in social situations :rolleyes:

garlic08
03-21-2012, 16:34
The trick is to know when to back off when you approch your limits. Actually exceeding them can result in injury. This is especially true in social situations :rolleyes:

...especially if you puke.

rocketsocks
03-21-2012, 17:33
Howdy All Blazers, the great John Muir said, "A man has to know his limitations" How do you find your limitations? Ive come to the conclusion that you must exceed your limits, in order to find them. Thats why I beleive most hikers will never realize there potential. When I section hike, I let myself stretch those limits way more than thru hiking, I end up leaving alot of energy unused and wasted on my thrus, because of the fear of not having anything left in the tank. Comfortability with your trail helps ease the fear. Thoughts, questions, comments, appreciated. I have a couple big questions, will my limited social skills hurt my chances at a successful thru of the AT? Could I hike the AT without talking?What kind of limited social skills we talking here?Like,Hi my name is Mickey Appleseed I'm from Donner Summit Cal.would you like to have dinner with me?Or,I hike alone,I prefer to be by myself type thing?..either way you'll be fine...if your chill.

Kirby
03-21-2012, 18:07
Hiking for the purpose of reaching that moment where you might die if you keep going is irrational.

--Kirby

tdoczi
03-21-2012, 18:17
Hiking for the purpose of reaching that moment where you might die if you keep going is irrational.

--Kirby

so is stopping after 5 miles (or 10, or 12 or 25) simply because youre not sure you can go farther.

i agree with the OP, most of us think we can do far less than we can.

stranger
03-21-2012, 18:18
As far as pushing your limits go, I guess it's different for everyone. I've never been in a situation where I've felt I had to stop, I've always been able to keep going, but my longest day ever is around 33 miles, so not a tremendous distance by comparison to some of todays' standards.

I agree that shorter hikes test you more than longer, in terms of a physical nature. Also on longer hikes I've definately taken the trail for granted and not pushed too hard cause it could wait for tomorrow, or "I'll make up the miles in Pennsylvania", etc... On a shorter hike, the time is now.

Alot of hikers on the AT aren't very social, I went behind a shelter in the Smokies one day in 2008 and was talking to a guy about his tarp setup, he wasn't very responsive. I asked him a few open questions and he looked at me with a puzzled look and just said "Look I really don't talk to people out here", and I said "no worries" and that was that. If you want to avoid people just start in late April and don't go to shelters and hostels, you will barely see anyone.

The AT 'social' element gets old real quick for me, it's cool if it's your first experience but after a few hikes I can't deal with another hiker discussion in Georgia about "how difficult the rollar-coaster" is in Virginia, or now the climb out of "Stecoah Gap" (the climb is actually out of Sweetwater Gap) will take 2 hours, or how bad the PA rocks are, blah, blah, etc...The stories that get handed down and amended to suit the times, it's kinda funny in some ways though.

As Max Patch said, the greatest hiker we've ever seen on the AT, Ward Leonard, certainly had social difficulties, and no one has matched his accomplishements to date. And what's even more impressive is that people have constantly tried and tried, where as Ward was probably just going for a walk.

quilteresq
03-21-2012, 18:41
Mmm. . . what about enjoying your hike? I have no desire to push my limits hiking in that way. I want to have fun. That said, I know there are challenging sections of the trail, but I don't have to do the really steep stuff AND do a 25 mile day in the same stretch. I'll leave the "pushing the limits" stuff ONLY to those that feel the need or desire.

pdcolelli42
03-21-2012, 18:57
I think the simple answer would be listen to your body. For example if I hike over 3mph my knees and ankles will begin to hurt much faster than If I hike 2.5mph. I can cover more ground at a slower pace. Ultimately though if my joints or muscles are starting to hurt it's best to plan to stop soon otherwise it will get progressively worse. If I stop when I start feeling pain then I usually don't feel that pain the next day.

Edwardo Rodriguez
03-21-2012, 19:21
Well my 2 cents is knowing
your pace
how long you can hike each day
can you handle the daily life of a Thru hike
the mental part of your body (the aces and pain)
In a Thru hike every one reaches a point where they question why they are out on the trail and not in the comfort on home life. Keeping it real on the trail, why are you out there and are you doing it for the right reasons. A Thru is not a cake walk and a person has to know how far they can go, for me it only come with trail experiences.

Capt Nat
03-21-2012, 21:24
I don't take it that seriously. Quoting the great "Lone Wolf", "It's just walking."

tdoczi
03-21-2012, 23:20
Mmm. . . what about enjoying your hike? I have no desire to push my limits hiking in that way. I want to have fun. That said, I know there are challenging sections of the trail, but I don't have to do the really steep stuff AND do a 25 mile day in the same stretch. I'll leave the "pushing the limits" stuff ONLY to those that feel the need or desire.

so walking those extra few miles you didnt think you could has no potential to be enjoyable?

rocketsocks
03-22-2012, 00:38
I don't believe in limits or sides,bottoms,there always another bottom.Sky's the limit.when I get tired,I just set down.It's all good,and I dig the Doppler effect I get off johnny gotta get there....what ever

Feral Bill
03-22-2012, 00:47
Hiking for the purpose of reaching that moment where you might die if you keep going is irrational.

--Kirby That's putting it extremely mildly. Welcome back Kirby

flemdawg1
03-22-2012, 11:11
Old Johnny Muir was trekking thru the uncharted Sierras, often solo. If he wasn't careful he could get himself into a situation where no good exit existed. The AT is a totally different type of trip.

If you enjoy hiking until you cripple yourself, go right ahead. Part of why I hike of to enjoy the use of my body, to feel the pleasure of exertion. However that exertion comes with a cost (and those cost keep getting more inflated as I get older).

moongoddess
03-22-2012, 11:39
Thats why I beleive most hikers will never realize there potential.

What potential are we talking about here? Backpacking's just walking through a natural area while carrying enough stuff to set up an evening campsite; I don't see much potential there to accomplish, frankly.

Mikey Appleseed
03-22-2012, 12:07
Potential hiking ability, and/or whats deep down inside(mojo). Sorry, I live by the words of the great Emilio Estevez in Young Guns,"You gotta test yourself everyday gentlemen" And I really enjoy my time hiking long hard days, its not "fun" its fulfilling to my needs/wants, thus happiness ensues. I guess im a weirdo, no wonder I want to hike silent.

Feral Bill
03-22-2012, 12:29
Potential hiking ability, and/or whats deep down inside(mojo). Sorry, I live by the words of the great Emilio Estevez in Young Guns,"You gotta test yourself everyday gentlemen" And I really enjoy my time hiking long hard days, its not "fun" its fulfilling to my needs/wants, thus happiness ensues. I guess im a weirdo, no wonder I want to hike silent. You have different goals than many of us. That's okay. Please don't get yourself badly hurt.

lemon b
03-22-2012, 13:55
I find certain limits come natual with the aging process. Some not so natural like closing up the mind to new ideas.

timmy_toes
03-22-2012, 14:23
"make friends with pain, and you'll never be alone" -Ken Chlouber another fun ultra runner quote.
Know you body, the more experience you have the safer it is to push yourself I have found from running.

My friend who im hiking the AT with in a few days wants to really push himself, such as 2 weeks with out resupply or 50 miles in a day. Am I crazy if I tell him good luck and let him have at it and fall back?

fiddlehead
03-22-2012, 15:30
If you have limits, you aren't trying hard enough.

I used to run ultra races and thought I reached my limit. I literally had to pick up my legs with my hands, pull up and place the leg up a step, then pull myself up using a rock, then repeat for the next leg.
Problem was I got dehydrated by mile 18 and this happened at mile 63.
That climb was my last as I couldn't make the cut off time.

But, was that my limit?
I think if a forest fire would've taken place, I still would've found a way to keep going.

Didn't know we were allowed "limits"

Garlic: the puking is a sign but doesn't stop you.

Feral Bill
03-22-2012, 15:33
"make friends with pain, and you'll never be alone" -Ken Chlouber another fun ultra runner quote.
Know you body, the more experience you have the safer it is to push yourself I have found from running.

My friend who im hiking the AT with in a few days wants to really push himself, such as 2 weeks with out resupply or 50 miles in a day. Am I crazy if I tell him good luck and let him have at it and fall back? You're crazy if you don't.

Feral Bill
03-22-2012, 15:36
If you have limits, you aren't trying hard enough.

I used to run ultra races and thought I reached my limit. I literally had to pick up my legs with my hands, pull up and place the leg up a step, then pull myself up using a rock, then repeat for the next leg.
Problem was I got dehydrated by mile 18 and this happened at mile 63.
That climb was my last as I couldn't make the cut off time.

But, was that my limit?
I think if a forest fire would've taken place, I still would've found a way to keep going.

. More likely, you would have been identified by dental records.

hikerboy57
03-22-2012, 17:16
i think ive pushed and found my limits, but im 55 and have been backpacking for over 30 years. this question is a lot tougher for the young pups. with maturity comes a different perspective in terms of commitment, and generally the younger less experienced hiker will "punk out" a bit earlier than a more experienced hiker, simply because hes afraid to push too hard, doesnt know what to do should he actually get in over his head..
for myself, when i plan my section hikes, i look for some of the most difficult trails i can find, but always line up alternatives and possible loops should i find im getting in over my head.

Pony
03-22-2012, 18:49
My high school wrestling coach pushed us pretty hard. We did conditioning drills at the end of every practice that lasted anywhere between 10 minutes and one and a half hours, and you never knew. This was at the end of a three hour practice mind you. When we were all at about the point where we thought we couldn't go any long longer, he was fond of saying, "Gentlemen, you will be amazed at what the human body is capable of, if you let it". I never once saw anybody quit during practice. I saw a lot of people puke though. It's a great sport that can teach you a lot about perserverence and discipline. I'm sure any ex-wrestlers who are also long distance hikers can see the similarities. There is a huge difference between can't and won't, and it is sometimes appropriate to put on the brakes in either situation.

rocketsocks
03-22-2012, 19:05
My high school wrestling coach pushed us pretty hard. We did conditioning drills at the end of every practice that lasted anywhere between 10 minutes and one and a half hours, and you never knew. This was at the end of a three hour practice mind you. When we were all at about the point where we thought we couldn't go any long longer, he was fond of saying, "Gentlemen, you will be amazed at what the human body is capable of, if you let it". I never once saw anybody quit during practice. I saw a lot of people puke though. It's a great sport that can teach you a lot about perserverence and discipline. I'm sure any ex-wrestlers who are also long distance hikers can see the similarities. There is a huge difference between can't and won't, and it is sometimes appropriate to put on the brakes in either situation.One time at practice I had the top position and blew a "Snotrocket" on my buddies back before the whislte.He was so pissed,I think he reached his limit.He kicked my butt and the whole time I was laughing my (It's)off,I even spotted a little.True story no It's.

Pony
03-22-2012, 19:22
I had a buddy that would "check your oil" or use the ol' 5 on 2 if he was getting beat. That was my limit. :)

stranger
03-22-2012, 19:31
Mmm. . . what about enjoying your hike? I have no desire to push my limits hiking in that way. I want to have fun. That said, I know there are challenging sections of the trail, but I don't have to do the really steep stuff AND do a 25 mile day in the same stretch. I'll leave the "pushing the limits" stuff ONLY to those that feel the need or desire.

The thread is about pushing you limits...therefore that's what people are talking about. If you struggle to hike 25 miles a day, then you shouldnt' do 25 miles a day.

For some people, that can easily be done in 9-10 hours, and they would still have 2-3 hours to sit around and smell the roses, for others it would take 15 hours and be living hell - only you can decide what is right 'for you'.

I would get very frustrated hiking if I hiked 12 mile days and spend half the day sitting around NOT hiking.

Everyone has their own limits, but no one can say hiking 30 miles (20-25, whatever) per day is not enjoying your hike, the better way to say it is "if I had to hike X miles per day, I wouldn't enjoy my hike".

To each their own, HYOH

hikingshoes
03-22-2012, 20:12
Pushing your limits to me means your not enjoying your hike. After i retired from the military i just wanted to enjoy the views/outdoors ON MY TIME and we do that. We was on a hike from NOC to Fontana and had to cut it short due to my GFs knees started hurting her,so we setup camp at the next campsite. The next morning we had BKs, packed up and headed back to NOC. It wasn't what we had planned,but it was a great hike.HYOH

lemon b
03-23-2012, 07:17
Ran into Ward once. Tell you this much he sure could put away some food. He was fine by me.

Mikey Appleseed
03-23-2012, 12:13
Great stuff to chew on. Ed Rod had a question, are you there for the right reasons? To be honest, im not sure if im out there for the right reasons, im not sure of the scale. Like most people, I got demons to face, random thoughts to mull over, goals, looking for a great sunset/sunrise, and the overall freedom I feel out there. To wake up and think, I might be real far away by tonight! As Muir said,"To cleanse yourself" by getting dirty, I think thats an oxymoron. Ive always been facinated with human limits, the thought of enjoying myself and nature, in situations where most people would be in agony, has always appealed to me, perhaps I enjoy being a human oxymoron! Shout out to the Veterans out there, these are the real heros, freedom angels.

WingedMonkey
03-23-2012, 13:31
I don't know any successful thru hikers that finished in agony (don't mean there wasn't any). Met a lot that quit that were in agony. It's really not a badge, in my opinion.

Then again to some of them that was success, to quit in agony, and get to brag about it.

hikerboy57
03-23-2012, 13:43
hiow do these limits get defined? When you speak of pushing the limits.are you willing to carry a 60 lb pack to see how far you can get?one persons limit may be no more than neels gap carrying less than 20 lbs. i dont really see the logic in attempting to go beyond ones limits- thats simply called "injury". i do think that you should push out of your comfort zone more often. anyone who wants to push the limits should attempt everest or k2.
i mean come on its backpacking, until recently a noncompetitive "sport" where everyone can win.
I pushed my limit 3 years ago, hiking franconia ridge on the hottest driest day of the summer. I was suffering from heat exhaustion, by the time i hit garfield, i was totally spent, just to witness one of the most beautiful sunsets ive ever see, followed by stars winking on by the hundred, then thousand.had made my suffering all the more worth it..
i do enjoy pushing myself, but there are many variables as to what circumstances constitute limits.

tdoczi
03-23-2012, 13:52
one persons limit may be no more than neels gap carrying less than 20 lbs. i dont really see the logic in attempting to go beyond ones limits- thats simply called "injury".

i think most healthy reasonably fit people can do a lot more than that, but they THINK they cant, and if they never push that limit they never will. i dont buy that theyre necessarily risking injury by trying. and if it is a physical limit and not a mental one, i think it can be improved upon easily if youre willing to, rather than just shutting down and saying "thats my limit." i doubt very many people (certainly not i) have ever truly gone to the one more step and i'm going to die limit and i dont think thats what anyone is seriously talking about. but if after the first time i hiked 10 miles i decided that that was "enough" and i was never going to try and do more i'd be the worse off for it. its hard to argue otherwise.

hikerboy57
03-23-2012, 14:03
i think most healthy reasonably fit people can do a lot more than that, but they THINK they cant, and if they never push that limit they never will. i dont buy that theyre necessarily risking injury by trying. and if it is a physical limit and not a mental one, i think it can be improved upon easily if youre willing to, rather than just shutting down and saying "thats my limit." i doubt very many people (certainly not i) have ever truly gone to the one more step and i'm going to die limit and i dont think thats what anyone is seriously talking about. but if after the first time i hiked 10 miles i decided that that was "enough" and i was never going to try and do more i'd be the worse off for it. its hard to argue otherwise.
Ill agree with that,i do think most "limits" are indeed mental, and it is surprising when you do find out you can go farther, you can carry more, etc.but ill still say its more about getting out of you rcomfort zone than it is about pushing yoour physical limits