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untitleddocument
03-22-2012, 18:48
Hello all,

I am new to the AT, but have been hiking in the NH Whites all my life, including having done several weeklong expeditions. As I prepare to hit the AT this May, I was wondering if you had any tips for fitness preparation. I am a college XC runner, and do 50-70 miles per week, depending on time availability. I was wondering what some good workouts would be as practice, especially in regards to weightlifting (I definitely have skinny runner syndrome). I am aware that nothing can truly prepare one for the rigors of the AT, but I would like to go into it with at least some level of comfort.

Thanks!

ScottP
03-22-2012, 19:05
You'll need some muscle mass, especially in the calves.

Strong middle/long distance runners are some of the most injury prone hikers out there.

Cycling (with proper form and cycling shoes), jumping rope, trail running, stairs, eccentric calf lifts, etc.


Keep an eye on your body, especially your achilles

Keep your pack weight as low as possible

JAK
03-22-2012, 19:11
Skinny runners make the best hikers. Just keep the weight down. Even with a havy pack you are better prepared than someone like myself carrying an extra 40 pounds of excess body fat. You are good to go, but hill training should help your hiking and your running. If you don't have hills, use stadium stairs. If you don't have stadium stairs, use weights. Squats are good. For upper body and core you really don't need much more than for running 50-70 miles per week. If you are interested in being a more rounded athlete, than I would suggest training for paddling in addition to hiking and running. Lot's of great rivers in Maine. There is an anual 100 mile race from Old Town to Katahdin.

ScottP
03-22-2012, 19:17
all I can say from the last two posts is LOL.

We're both right.

but you're really in shape and you'll probably want to do big miles. You can because you're fit, but you might hurt yourself doing so.

50 year old fat dudes are fine just rocking 7-15 mile days.

JAK
03-22-2012, 19:20
After reading ScottP's post I should rethink and qualify what I have said.
With your level of fitness you are capable of racking up big miles from the get go, and that I think is where you would get into trouble. So weights and hill drills would be a good way to prepare, but you still might want to ease into the miles, as it is different than running, especially with heavier packs. Listen to your body, and remember just as in running, bones take longer to train than soft tissue, and soft tissue takes longer than your already capable cardiovascular system. Cheers.

JAK
03-22-2012, 19:20
LOL.
You beat me to it again.

kayak karl
03-22-2012, 19:35
this is a good one for back and shoulder http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/BackGeneral/DBBentOverRow.html

untitleddocument
03-22-2012, 19:48
OK great, thanks for the responses. Let me see if i get the gist of what you are telling me.
I have the cardio and the ability to do high mileage ... True, I would be happy doing 20+ miles per day

However, my body is designed for speed and not long distance packmule type work ... Understood, I know it is a different sport altogether

Find a good balance between getting the distance I want, and remaining injury free ... Good plan, I do tend to have ankle issues, and the last thing I want is a minor sprain to stop me in my tracks

Good advice. I know that I have done 100+ miles in 5 days, but I also know that there is almost no chance that I could keep that pace up over 2200, especially being 6'0" and ~150. Carrying a 35# pack will be the speed determining factor.

ScottP
03-22-2012, 20:06
OK great, thanks for the responses. Let me see if i get the gist of what you are telling me.
I have the cardio and the ability to do high mileage ... True, I would be happy doing 20+ miles per day

However, my body is designed for speed and not long distance packmule type work ... Understood, I know it is a different sport altogether

Find a good balance between getting the distance I want, and remaining injury free ... Good plan, I do tend to have ankle issues, and the last thing I want is a minor sprain to stop me in my tracks

Good advice. I know that I have done 100+ miles in 5 days, but I also know that there is almost no chance that I could keep that pace up over 2200, especially being 6'0" and ~150. Carrying a 35# pack will be the speed determining factor.

Get your pack to more like 15# with food and water and you'll make hiking much more like a sport that you're already very strong at. If you want to be doing 20+ miles a day then the ultralight thing makes sense and you should look into it.

20 miles a day for a person with an athletic mentality isn't very much. My first full day (or maybe second) of long distance hiking was 20+ miles, and my girlfriend who just came along for the first week completed it as well with no problems. I did the AT just after I finished my degree, I was a d3 college wrestler, and she was a d3 volleyball player.

By pearisburg, va or so I was doing mid/high 20s most days. I could do those miles earlier, but it was pretty tough on my body in terms of wear and tear, so I switched out from the 'normal' backpacker setup to the ultralight thing. World of difference.

It might take 4-6 weeks for you to be able to hike big miles, just listen to your body and err on the side of caution early. You have 6 weeks or so to cross train to help prevent anything from cropping up.

I'm actually really interested to see what kind of shape you'll be in to start your XC season in the fall.

untitleddocument
03-22-2012, 20:23
Get your pack to more like 15# with food and water and you'll make hiking much more like a sport that you're already very strong at. If you want to be doing 20+ miles a day then the ultralight thing makes sense and you should look into it.

20 miles a day for a person with an athletic mentality isn't very much. My first full day (or maybe second) of long distance hiking was 20+ miles, and my girlfriend who just came along for the first week completed it as well with no problems. I did the AT just after I finished my degree, I was a d3 college wrestler, and she was a d3 volleyball player.

By pearisburg, va or so I was doing mid/high 20s most days. I could do those miles earlier, but it was pretty tough on my body in terms of wear and tear, so I switched out from the 'normal' backpacker setup to the ultralight thing. World of difference.

It might take 4-6 weeks for you to be able to hike big miles, just listen to your body and err on the side of caution early. You have 6 weeks or so to cross train to help prevent anything from cropping up.

I'm actually really interested to see what kind of shape you'll be in to start your XC season in the fall.

Ok, seeing this makes me a lot more comfortable about attempting ~25 mile days. I am most definitely interested in going very light, but I'm just a little wary about how to shave off those pounds... I will be traveling with a friend who is in equal shape, and we are going to be sharing items (water filtration, stove, tent, etc) which cuts down our weight. How can I continue to take pounds off in order to get to that 15-20# mark?

Also, don't mention the fall XC season, I am graduating college this May and going to grad school in the fall... my eligibility is all used up :(
My friend on the other hand, who still has his eligibility? I'd venture to say he is going to have a very unique experience come XC time hahaha

Theosus
03-22-2012, 21:01
As a flatlander hoping to do any miles (8-10 would be good for me, I'd be happy). I've been trying to get in better hiking shape too. A local group is going to do some of the AT in GA in October, woody gap area. Along with my hiking around my flat area (the best trail I can find locally to practice on once a week is 4 miles) I've been setting the treadmill on 6-7 degrees and walking up it around 3 mph. So far I haven't tried wearing the pack whilst doing this. My wife has enough reasons to laugh at me, I'm reluctant to provide more, less pictures make their way on facebook.
I'm not sure what else to do myself. I'm going on a NC mountain over niter next month. It should help me gauge how I'm doing. My pants are getting loose though.

Pedaling Fool
03-22-2012, 21:20
This is not only good for developing strength, it's very good to for a killer cardio, of course you gotta use a lighter weight than in the video and also push the weight above you head (military press). Try 20 of those back-to-back and see if your heart is not wanting to pound its way out of your chest. http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=wBZnxbly3so&feature=fvwp

Montana AT05
03-22-2012, 21:32
Hello all,

I am new to the AT, but have been hiking in the NH Whites all my life, including having done several weeklong expeditions. As I prepare to hit the AT this May, I was wondering if you had any tips for fitness preparation. I am a college XC runner, and do 50-70 miles per week, depending on time availability. I was wondering what some good workouts would be as practice, especially in regards to weightlifting (I definitely have skinny runner syndrome). I am aware that nothing can truly prepare one for the rigors of the AT, but I would like to go into it with at least some level of comfort.

Thanks!

Stair stepper at the gym or, if you have access, a treadmill that elevates from 0 to 50 degrees. I try to do 1000' elevation gain over 1 mile, which as you know from the Whites, is a common gain on the AT.

Shoulder workouts (if you end up packing light much of your weight will be born by your shoulders). Standard exercises will do--as will pull-ups.

Hip Flexor exercises (think of standing upright and marching in place, but bringing your knee up high each step)

Focus on stabilizer muscles (perform normal shoulder, back, arm, or leg exercises while balanced on a half-dome exercise ball--in which case use lighter weight dumbells than normal)

Squats and lunges galore (be sure to use proper technique or risk problems)

If you go to a gym I advise speaking with a trainer there and insuring you use proper technique, never let pride impede progress.

Old Boots
03-22-2012, 21:46
A professional backpacker did @ 25 miles one day and 30 miles the next and then had to take time off the trail to heal shin splints. This is a word of warning for the ver fit and able. Let your body tell you how many miles to hike not someone who may never have hiked the AT.

rjjones
03-22-2012, 21:47
I think you'd be fine,but,if you want some type of workout to protect you from getting hurt you may want to look at kettlebell training.Its a core workout used to strengthen and prevent injuries.My chiropractor/sports rehab doc. has me doing it for my hurniated disc problem and its been a blessing.Take a look.Also you get alot out of it for such a short workout.

Mags
03-22-2012, 22:01
This may help. An article here on WB:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?13696-Physical-Preparations-for-Long-Distance-Hiking

You already have a good cardio base...but running is different than hiking as you mentioned. Though XC running is probably far better than road running to say the least. You live in NH. Get some trail runs in mixed in with some long day hikes with lots of vert gain. (Or strap on the snowshoes this time of the year!) to mix it up and develop muscles more suited to long, slow distance over the long terms than the relatively short and fast runs with recovery your body is used to. Otherwise, you'll be fine and probably kick butt. :)

If a short, stocky guy like me who is closer to 40 than to 30 can put down 25 MPD consistently on the long trails, I'm sure a college xcountry runner in his 20s will be fine with a little more hiking 'practice'. ;)


Keep a light pack, hike steady, listen to your body and most of all: HAVE FUN!

untitleddocument
03-22-2012, 22:12
This may help. An article here on WB:
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?13696-Physical-Preparations-for-Long-Distance-Hiking


Thanks Mags, great article there. I appreciate everyone's input, it has been very helpful. I think I will focus on doing a lot more hill workouts / stair climbing type workouts plus long day hikes when I have the time. I will definitely also incorporate more strength training, and work to improve my stabilizer muscle groups.

I believe that finding a balance between physical strength, flexibility, and cardio will be the best path to success, combined with listening to my body and preventing injuries rather than having to rest and recover from an injury.

Mags
03-22-2012, 22:27
I believe that finding a balance between physical strength, flexibility, and cardio will be the best path to success, combined with listening to my body and preventing injuries rather than having to rest and recover from an injury.

Winter outdoor activities are, IMO, the best all around outdoor workouts. Don't know what the snow conditions are like in NH right now, and I may have had a joking tone in my post, but I am serious about snowshoeing.

It will work the legs, help the core, develop cardio, help the arms (with poles), shoulders and work the small muscle groups for flexbility as you try to balance a bit on the snow. Snowshoes are relatively inexpensive. Your college may even have an outing group that rents equipment for free or for little money.

Even better is backcountry (tele or AT) and Nordic backcountry skiing. I was in the best shape of my life when I was unemployed in winter 2009/10 and went skiing (no lift serve, strictly backcountry) probably 50+ times in a 3-4 month period. Bit steeper of a learning curve admittedly. But man was it fun. Unlike a gym workout, did not feel guilty about having a beer after either. ;)

ScottP
03-22-2012, 23:17
Here's a gear list I posted for another thread, and it's pretty close to how I roll, except I don't treat water. And I own a canister stove and am picky about food (eat whole grain things that need long cook times), so I use that.


Total gear cost around $500-600. Total base weight (gear w/o food or water) is 5 or so pounds. You could do without some of the misc. stuff. I'd probably skip a raincoat for a thru starting in May, but I wouldn't call that a smart decision.



Big 4:
Golite poncho tarp + 50 feet kelty triptease+10 tent stakes=10 oz, $100 total
thermarest ridgerest short, trimmed to size: 10 oz, $25
Golite 1 season 40 degree quilt 19oz on sale right now for $180
Zpack Zero small with 2 side pockets 4 oz, $110

<3 pounds, $415

Clothing:
Worn:
running shoes/train runners/sandals bought 1 size too large
1 pair running socks
poly T-shirt
running shorts

Other
fleece hat
2 extra pairs 1/4 length rurnning socks
cotton bandanna

<.5 pound, you probably own this alreaady


Cooking:
home made Supercat alcohol stove 1 oz, $1
1L titanium pot 5 oz, $50
Titanium spoon 1 oz, $20
1 20oz bottled-water bottle for alcohol fuel
3x 32 oz gatorade bottles 5 oz total
aqua mira, 3 oz $15
2 mini-lighters (bics are fine)

<1 pound, $100

misc stuff:
mp3 player that runs off of aaa batteries
ALDHA trail companion, print pages off about 3 resupplies ahead
dental-floss container with floss, nail clippers, sewing needle, duct tape, other small things
toothbrush, toothpaste
add in a headnet when you hit the bugs:
Dry bag large enough for sleeping bag
food bag
bag for misc stuff
cell phone, personal items, etc.

<1 pound, $50 to go buy what you need

ScottP
03-22-2012, 23:20
Oh, and what mags said plays out in the research

XC ski athletes have lots of the highest vo2 max values recorded.

RWheeler
03-22-2012, 23:23
I've been slacklining a lot. Builds ankle strength, which I hope will help me from rolling it and messing it up when I'm on the trail.

JAK
03-22-2012, 23:39
I was going to mention cross-country skiing also, but this past winter has me all depressed. Anyhow, river is open, paddling season starts today. lol.

Interesting to consider the relationship between weight and speed, and weight and distance, and speed and distance. Typically if you slow down by about 6-10%, you can run twice as far. This holds more or less true for distances from 400m up to 40,000m or more. Not sure how it translates to ultradistance, and multi-day hiking. I think it holds true that if you increase your weight by 10%, you need to slow down by 10% in order to be able to go the same distance. However, when we talk in terms of hiking miles per day, over multiple days, it gets trickier. Take someone that can average 25 miles per day on the AT, hiking say 10-15 hours per day, and maintain that average over 80 days. Typically they are light for their height, and in awesome shape. What happens if you increase the total weight on feet from say, 160 pounds to 200 pounds? How much do they need to reduce their miles per day? Not sure. My guess is its more or less linear, so in this case it would mean a reduction from 25 miles per day to 20 miles, but it might have to be more than that. Not sure. What I am saying is you can't just slow down and hike a longer day. Your body can only repair itself so fast, so you can only do so much work per day, and hiking work is a product of total weight and distance, but there could be some non-linearities there also. However, at those higher speeds I think slowing down is more efficient, when walking, and that might cancel out the non-linearities of adding more weight.

Anyway, have fun with it. Also, think of each day as a training day rather than a race, because it is a 80-120 event which is more or less a training season. So if you can do 50-100 mile day if it was a single day race, your thru-hiking day should probably not be more than 25-50% of that. Again, I am not sure. It would be an interesting question to ask someone like Jennifer Phar Davis how much fast she might be able to do 1000 miles or 500 miles or 100 miles versus 2000 miles. She maintained about 46 mpd for 46 days, so maybe she could do 50 mpd for 25, 55 mpd for 12, 60 mpd for 6, and so forth, oe something like that. Again there are alot of non-linearities there because you have to switch from mostly walking to mostly running and with rugged terrain you start getting into some nasty business.

Not sure where I am going with this. Lots of variables. It comes down to an experiment of one. Hope you beat yourself, without beating yourself up. Best advice might be to treat it as a very very long training run/hike, not a very very long race. Jennifer Phar Davis said it was mostly about staying smart, not staying fast or even tough, though of course she was all three and then some. Listen to your brain. Don't over-ride you central governor until you really know your body can take it. Finish fitter than you start, at least for this first one.

rocketsocks
03-23-2012, 00:53
I was going to mention cross-country skiing also, but this past winter has me all depressed. Anyhow, river is open, paddling season starts today. lol.

Interesting to consider the relationship between weight and speed, and weight and distance, and speed and distance. Typically if you slow down by about 6-10%, you can run twice as far. This holds more or less true for distances from 400m up to 40,000m or more. Not sure how it translates to ultra distance, and multi-day hiking. I think it holds true that if you increase your weight by 10%, you need to slow down by 10% in order to be able to go the same distance. However, when we talk in terms of hiking miles per day, over multiple days, it gets trickier. Take someone that can average 25 miles per day on the AT, hiking say 10-15 hours per day, and maintain that average over 80 days. Typically they are light for their height, and in awesome shape. What happens if you increase the total weight on feet from say, 160 pounds to 200 pounds? How much do they need to reduce their miles per day? Not sure. My guess is its more or less linear, so in this case it would mean a reduction from 25 miles per day to 20 miles, but it might have to be more than that. Not sure. What I am saying is you can't just slow down and hike a longer day. Your body can only repair itself so fast, so you can only do so much work per day, and hiking work is a product of total weight and distance, but there could be some nonlinearities there also. However, at those higher speeds I think slowing down is more efficient, when walking, and that might cancel out the nonlinearities of adding more weight.

Anyway, have fun with it. Also, think of each day as a training day rather than a race, because it is a 80-120 event which is more or less a training season. So if you can do 50-100 mile day if it was a single day race, your thru-hiking day should probably not be more than 25-50% of that. Again, I am not sure. It would be an interesting question to ask someone like Jennifer Pharr Davis how much fast she might be able to do 1000 miles or 500 miles or 100 miles versus 2000 miles. She maintained about 46 mpd for 46 days, so maybe she could do 50 mpg for 25, 55 mph for 12, 60 mph for 6, and so forth, one something like that. Again there are a lot of nonlinearities there because you have to switch from mostly walking to mostly running and with rugged terrain you start getting into some nasty business.

Not sure where I am going with this. Lots of variables. It comes down to an experiment of one. Hope you beat yourself, without beating yourself up. Best advice might be to treat it as a very very long training run/hike, not a very very long race. Jennifer Pharr Davis said it was mostly about staying smart, not staying fast or even tough, though of course she was all three and then some. Listen to your brain. Don't over-ride you central governor until you really know your body can take it. Finish fitter than you start, at least for this first one.JAK,one of these day's I just know your gonna come out with a "Unified Hiker Theory" and I can't wait to read it.With much Regard Rocketsocks:)

Spokes
03-23-2012, 06:20
It's all about the core baby!

Order "Insanity". You'll cuss me after the first full day but by day 60 you'll thank me. It's different than P90X.

Cheers!

moytoy
03-23-2012, 08:32
I've been slacklining a lot. Builds ankle strength, which I hope will help me from rolling it and messing it up when I'm on the trail.
I'm always ready for a new workout but after watching a utube of people slacklining I'm thinking it's not for me.:eek:

Deadeye
03-23-2012, 21:28
Add wall squats to whatever you do. Great excercise for developing the brakes that you need for downhill hiking.