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View Full Version : I find this interesting and troubling at the same time.



johnnybgood
03-26-2012, 17:43
In my daughter's Political Science class at a local college the question was asked to a room of 26 young adults whether anyone had ever visited a National Park before. Only my daughter and another student raised their hand .
The instuctor asked the other student where she had been and without hesitation she mentioned a local state park instead. I cannot believe that adults in their 20's, 30's and even 40's have never visited a national park before.
You would thought having Shenandoah National Park within our states border and a mere 2 hours drive from the metro Richmond area that surely there would be others who had visited.
What's even more surprising I find is the total lack of understanding of what constitutes a national park and how it is funded by the federal government.

The discussion was initially about the Department of Interior and its role in our national parks.

rocketsocks
03-26-2012, 18:00
One of the best best things Teddy,and John ever did.JB good,the floor is yours I'm up for a history refresher,go for it ...I'm all ears.:)

strollingalong
03-26-2012, 18:25
i bet a lot of them don't know they ever went to a national park.... the same response would be received in the UK, but when you let them know where the national parks were people would quickly realise... they're pretty massive places.

fiddlehead
03-26-2012, 18:31
You can bet the foreigners know.
It is a shame, you are right.
Priorities is everything and is seems they've changed for so many.

I don't even see kids playing outside much in America anymore.
Turn the TV's off (and computers) and get out there folks (but of course, it won't happen)

Wise Old Owl
03-26-2012, 18:33
Ahh too much time on xbox - nothing troubling about that.... (sarcastic)

hikerboy57
03-26-2012, 18:33
You can bet the foreigners know.
It is a shame, you are right.
Priorities is everything and is seems they've changed for so many.

I don't even see kids playing outside much in America anymore.
Turn the TV's off (and computers) and get out there folks (but of course, it won't happen)

apparently mortal kombat trumps life and living. teach your children well.feed them on your dreams.

Different Socks
03-26-2012, 18:42
Living out west now, I've run into people that have actually said they have never been east of the Rockies! While living out east, i've also met people that have never been west of the Mississippi!! But the really unbelievable thing? I've met people that have never even been out of the state they have lived in for decades!!(Yet were capable of doing so).
Nat'l Parks I've been to and actually experienced more than the "front country": Acadia, Rocky Mtn, Grand Canyon(north and south rims), Glacier, Y-stone, Tetons, Bryce, Zion, Smokies, Shenandoah, Apostle Islands, Sequoia/Kings Canyon, Joshua Tree, Arches, Yosemite, Badlands and a think a few others. Damn proud of it too!!

JAK
03-26-2012, 19:59
I love National Parks. They should be free so that more people will visit, except where you need to limit impact. Even then I think certain weekends should be free, and I think kids should always be free, as it is an essential part of their education. It's not about revenue. It's about conservation, research, and education. Getting more people out to the parks is an end in itself, but also is vital to conservation. People that don't visit, they should pay for those that do. :-)

hikerboy57
03-26-2012, 21:02
unfortunately our priorities have shifted away from sustaining our future in lieu of sports and entertainment spending.If we spent 10% of what we spend on sports(not including backpacking, of course), its related gambling, and entertainment, college education would be available completely free on a merit basis, the parks would be funded indefinitely, and we'd probably be able to have universal health care as well.
My friend just spent $130/seat to see neil diamond!!!
we need to invest in our countrys future, protect our grandchildrens future, and educate our kids to do the same.

Different Socks
03-26-2012, 21:06
unfortunately our priorities have shifted away from sustaining our future in lieu of sports and entertainment spending.If we spent 10% of what we spend on sports(not including backpacking, of course), its related gambling, and entertainment, college education would be available completely free on a merit basis, the parks would be funded indefinitely, and we'd probably be able to have universal health care as well.
My friend just spent $130/seat to see neil diamond!!!
we need to invest in our countrys future, protect our grandchildrens future, and educate our kids to do the same.

Just out of curiosity, was that a male or female Diamond fan?

dink
03-26-2012, 21:09
wow, my grandkids (age 5 and 2) have been in loads of national parks both just visting for the day and camping since they were each just 3 months old...the 5 year old has even done some AT hiking with me!

johnnybgood
03-26-2012, 21:16
unfortunately our priorities have shifted away from sustaining our future in lieu of sports and entertainment spending.If we spent 10% of what we spend on sports(not including backpacking, of course), its related gambling, and entertainment, college education would be available completely free on a merit basis, the parks would be funded indefinitely, and we'd probably be able to have universal health care as well.
My friend just spent $130/seat to see neil diamond!!!
we need to invest in our countrys future, protect our grandchildrens future, and educate our kids to do the same. Great post Hikerboy- I couldn't agree more. One of the greatest assets are our chidren.

The values of our generation and past generations are eroding away.

RichardD
03-26-2012, 23:49
While I was a high school teacher I had a club where I took students on weekend trips to State Parks and one National Park. We were self funded most of the time so we always camped to keep cost low, the school let me use a school bus which I drove and they did provide the Diesel. We cooked our own food, I purchased it students cooked it. For most of these students this was the only time they left their home town, for the few that had travelled outside of the town it was always to family in another Texas town, never out in the country.
To see these students experience the beautiful scenery in Texas and New Mexico was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.
One student said "this must be what heaven is like" as we walked up a trail in the Guadalupe Mountains National Park.
Years later I still get e mails from past students saying that these trips were the best part of High School.
Perhaps it instilled a love of the outdoors in a few more of our young people.

BlackCloud
03-27-2012, 00:00
I love National Parks. They should be free so that more people will visit, except where you need to limit impact.

In a world where a single movie ticket is $10+, a $20 weekly admission fee isn't keeping anyone out of any unit of the NPS. Please, it's $50+ to fill up a small car's gas tank now.

BlackCloud
03-27-2012, 00:02
While I was a high school teacher I had a club where I took students on weekend trips to State Parks and one National Park. We were self funded most of the time so we always camped to keep cost low, the school let me use a school bus which I drove and they did provide the Diesel. We cooked our own food, I purchased it students cooked it. For most of these students this was the only time they left their home town, for the few that had travelled outside of the town it was always to family in another Texas town, never out in the country.
To see these students experience the beautiful scenery in Texas and New Mexico was one of the most rewarding things I have ever done.
One student said "this must be what heaven is like" as we walked up a trail in the Guadalupe Mountains National Park.
Years later I still get e mails from past students saying that these trips were the best part of High School.
Perhaps it instilled a love of the outdoors in a few more of our young people.

Good for you. it undoubtedly did. Scouting had that effect on me.

rocketsocks
03-27-2012, 00:51
In a world where a single movie ticket is $10+, a $20 weekly admission fee isn't keeping anyone out of any unit of the NPS. Please, it's $50+ to fill up a small car's gas tank now.I now,how ridiculous is that a little sandwich sack of popcorn is $7 and then they sell you a bucket of soda $6 and that's the smallest they have,I don't want a gal.of anything to drink.I know some people who have recently taken up camping because it was a cheap way to spend some time together.pretty cool.

bigcranky
03-27-2012, 08:05
I would bet some of those kids in the class have been to National Parks, they just don't remember or realize it. Still a pretty good lesson.

Cookerhiker
03-27-2012, 08:09
Not only is SNP close-at-hand, VA also has many military and historic national parks - and those students hadn't visited Appomattox or Yorktown or the Civil War NPs either?

Mrs Baggins
03-27-2012, 08:29
Road tripped from Maryland to Alaska and back in 2007 - went to 16 National Parks. Didn't count how many Canadian National and Provincial Parks we visited..but it was a lot. Also didn't count the number of state parks that we visited and/or camped in. Many.

Lived in 11 states and two other countries. Here in Maryland I meet people all the time who haven't even been to DC let alone anywhere out of the state. They think that if they go to Ocean City every year that's a really big vacation. When I talk about our moves and travels they give me that "scared cow" stare - sort of rear back from me with huge fright-filled eyes - and then say something like "Oh no. I could never do that." So very sad. The minute we hit the ground in a new state we start traveling around it and usually know more about it than too many of it's life-long residents.

coach lou
03-27-2012, 08:38
Exploring is alot of work, you know! We have a joke in our family.....on a summer girl scout camp-out, one of my step-daughters friends kept sitting around saying.."ew, ew I'm sweating!!!

Pedaling Fool
03-27-2012, 08:50
Not only is SNP close-at-hand, VA also has many military and historic national parks - and those students hadn't visited Appomattox or Yorktown or the Civil War NPs either?I did a cycle tour in that area years ago, it's the best way to get around that area. During that time much of the Colonial Parkway was closed to traffic due to maintenance, had the entire parkway to myself...except for the funny looks by the occasional road construction crew.:cool:

pj1008
03-27-2012, 10:05
I don't really find the Fact that they haven't been to a national park that disturbing... I find the fact that most kids my age (21) have never been to a park! Period.

I am proud to say I've spent the a good portion of my life in the woods. Be it the campgrounds I went to with my parents as a kid or even just the little bit of woods near my house. And of course small section hikes of the AT in pa.

But if I take any of my friends out for a "hike" they start freaking out not even 100 yards into "nature" as they call it (I can still see the freaking road! That is not nature!!) I swear it's just sad. They are so worried about getting their shoes dirty... I just don't get it

I mentioned to one friend that I was planing a overnight and their response was "why the hell would anyone want to do that" with this look of disgust on her face.

I told another friend (one that actually doesn't mind some small day hikes... Surprisingly) that I really want to do a thru hike and he was seriously worried about my sanity. Freaking out like I was going to go off and die like the guy in "Into the Wild" even after I explained I won't be going to the wilds of alaska and there will be trail towns every few days and even places to shower he's still convinced that no sane person would ever want to do a thru hike. Sane or not it's what I want to do.

I just don't get it... Human beings evolved to survive in the wild and we were great at it! Look at where we got to today because we are survivors. But now people sit around in their little air conditioned cubicles and complain about the walk from the office to their car. Can someone explain how this is supposed to be a fulfilling life?

coach lou
03-27-2012, 10:39
You wise beyond years...Grasshopper! Which is why many of us come to a site like this,to many of are friends and relatives won't leave that cubicle and come out of the A/C to actually smell the Roses or watch the glaciers melt!

Fiddleback
03-27-2012, 10:55
...When I talk about our moves and travels they give me that "scared cow" stare...

Coming from a military family and having my own military career I had similar experiences. I went to nine schools before I graduated high school. Again, before h.s. graduation, I lived in 10 states (Maryland twice). I always thought that was a little extreme but not as extreme as the other end...folks that never leave the state they were born in.

As an adult, I returned to MD for a third time and my bride taught in the Anne Arundel school district. There she met two teachers who told a story of a summer vacation that found them on a highway in west Texas. My Lady tried to repeat the story with the same emotion of her friends'...they were frightened by the drive...they hadn't seen any houses or businesses and maybe even traffic for and hour or two! They were all alone!! :eek:

I've been to a lot of NP's. My dream for retirement was a series of long road trips to visit all of 'em; My Lady's dream was filled with horses and llamas and the two dreams get in each others' way. But my dream still lives and, until then, I'm content with twice-a-year visits to Yellowstone and a drive to Glacier when the mood strikes.:)

And the horses are nice, too.

FB

Mags
03-27-2012, 11:01
Up until I was 24, I had never been to a national park. (Though, I did a camping trip when I was 12 in the White Mtn NF and hiked Monadnock when I was 19)

Just never on the radar for us growing up. Part of it is that there is no major national park in striking distance of where I grew up. Part of it was cultural and financial: Vacations were used by Dad to work on the house.
We had day trips and rarely overnighters.

Granted, I suspect the typical college student had more opportunities to go to a national park that myself and my peers did, but they may discover the joys of national parks as they get older.

I know I did.

Cookerhiker
03-27-2012, 11:11
By the time my daughters - currently 33 and 30 - were in their late teens, they had visited - and camped in - Acadia, Smokies, Yosemmite, Lassen, Redwood, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, Grand Canyon, Zion, Bryce Canyon, Arches, Mesa Verde, Rocky Mountain, Yellowstone, Grand Teton, Crater Lake, Mt. Rainier, Olympic, Pictured Rocks in MI, Cape Breton in Nova Scotia as well as numerous state parks and other special places like the Adirondacks, Whites, Monongahela, Black Hills, et. al. And of course Shenandoah which was 2 hours away.

Neither has backpacked long-distance but both hike and enjoy the outdoors.

Astro
03-27-2012, 11:24
With Boy Scouts my three sons have had plenty of camping and hiking experiences in state parks, national parks and other places. My youngest has even section hiked some of the AT with me. But I believe they are unfortunately an exception for this generation. To help our 12 year old Baseball All Star team bond together last summer we took them camping. It was very interesting as most of them had never been camping before.

On a more positive note we just had a boy join our Boy Scout troop this year who had never been camping before, and since joining he has not missed a trip and you can tell it is now his favorite thing in the world to do.

Cookerhiker
03-27-2012, 13:51
On a more positive note we just had a boy join our Boy Scout troop this year who had never been camping before, and since joining he has not missed a trip and you can tell it is now his favorite thing in the world to do.

Always like hearing news like this:)

Odd Man Out
03-27-2012, 15:27
Where we live, it is common for people and their friends to rent cabins together on the same week on the same lake up north every year. Then they rent condos together in Gulf Shores for spring break. It's not just an unwillingness to see nature - it is a complete lack of interest in doing anything interesting, new, or adventurous. I remember dragging three kids through Europe and noticing that we were the only family of five we ever saw traveling around. I really enjoyed exposing the kids to other cultures as well as the National Parks. Now, if we want to meet people from other countries, we just go to the national parks. I met lots of nice people from all over the world at the Grand Canyon. Just not many Americans.

coach lou
03-27-2012, 15:44
Where we live, it is common for people and their friends to rent cabins together on the same week on the same lake up north every year. Then they rent condos together in Gulf Shores for spring break. It's not just an unwillingness to see nature - it is a complete lack of interest in doing anything interesting, new, or adventurous. I remember dragging three kids through Europe and noticing that we were the only family of five we ever saw traveling around. I really enjoyed exposing the kids to other cultures as well as the National Parks. Now, if we want to meet people from other countries, we just go to the national parks. I met lots of nice people from all over the world at the Grand Canyon. Just not many Americans.

One 4th of July, we went to D.C. All day and nite on the Mall. The most awesome fireworks I've ever seen, but just as spectacular was humanity everywhere, from all walks of life and every country on the planet it had seemed. I will never forget that day.

Sevsa
03-27-2012, 16:01
I love National Parks. They should be free so that more people will visit, except where you need to limit impact. Even then I think certain weekends should be free, and I think kids should always be free, as it is an essential part of their education. It's not about revenue. It's about conservation, research, and education. Getting more people out to the parks is an end in itself, but also is vital to conservation. People that don't visit, they should pay for those that do. :-)

Actually the parks are free at certain times. On MLK weekend I visited White Sands and Big Bend and the entrance fees were waived. One of my life's goals is to visit every national park and although I don't think I'll get to a couple in Alaska because of the expense of having to fly in and out I am only missing 7. They all have so many things to offer and allow us to connect with things bigger than us.
As for geographic ignorance of Americans it extends well beyond national parks. My wife is from Singapore and I can count on my fingers the number of people who haven't been there that actually know where it is.

Mama T
03-27-2012, 16:50
So many of the posts I see here echo my thoughts. As a female hiker (AT wannabe!) I have people tell me all of the time that they think I'm crazy for "going out into the wilderness alone". I'm apalled because in PA they are leasing out parts of our state forest land to the gas well industry, and it is SO sad to see beautiful areas ruined... for money... that was originally set aside land for public use and conservation, etc. Not that we don't need alternative energy, but I don't believe the plans in place are going to restore as they promise... and there's enough money to pay fines along the way... so they say ooops and get to continue. Activity??? People would rather go to the gym and get MRSA than get "get dirty" camping. I took my kids kayaking and camping... as a single mom. My son was interested in hiking... now I'm the one obsessed. What's really awesome though is that I taught my mentally retarded little brother to read blazes and I can let him "lead me" on small hikes. We camp in tents. It's a beautiful thing to see him mesmerized by a sunset or a wild creature crossing our path. He gets it. And so many people don't. So many.

johnnybgood
03-27-2012, 19:02
So many of the posts I see here echo my thoughts. As a female hiker (AT wannabe!) I have people tell me all of the time that they think I'm crazy for "going out into the wilderness alone". I'm apalled because in PA they are leasing out parts of our state forest land to the gas well industry, and it is SO sad to see beautiful areas ruined... for money... that was originally set aside land for public use and conservation, etc. Not that we don't need alternative energy, but I don't believe the plans in place are going to restore as they promise... and there's enough money to pay fines along the way... so they say ooops and get to continue. Activity??? People would rather go to the gym and get MRSA than get "get dirty" camping. I took my kids kayaking and camping... as a single mom. My son was interested in hiking... now I'm the one obsessed. What's really awesome though is that I taught my mentally retarded little brother to read blazes and I can let him "lead me" on small hikes. We camp in tents. It's a beautiful thing to see him mesmerized by a sunset or a wild creature crossing our path. He gets it. And so many people don't. So many.

That's great stuff there about letting your mentally challenged little brother "lead you" on hikes. I prefer using the word "challenged" as opposed to the "R" word since he obviously can be taught,which shows the ability to learn.
My daughter has a visual impairment which doesn't allow her to see things with clarity like you & I but she has seen more,using all her senses, and experienced more than I ever will in my lifetime.
Her desire to travel abroad to Europe in the summer of 2007 took her to France,Spain and Portugal with other kids her own age.
She has been to three national parks and countless historical national parks and monuments with unbridled enthusiasm to see and do more.

What I'm trying to convey here is that exposing them to new and different activities, any activity that gets their body & mind in motion, will see new doors of opportunity open and excite their yearning to experience and learn more.

fenderbenderfc
03-27-2012, 19:08
When I was grade school age my family regularly took vacations to national parks. Unfortunately, I wasn't very interested when my friends were going to Disney, other theme parks, and the beach. I wish I could relive my experiences now that I am more appreciative. My enthusiasm for the outdoors started growing about the time we could no longer afford to take the trips. I still have fond memories from the Grand Canyon, Bryce Canyon, Canyonlands, Petrified Forest, Yosemite, Sequoia, Rainier, and probably more that I can't remember. I have a National Parks and Historic Places passport somewhere with a bunch of stamps. I am really blessed to have parents that love the outdoors and forced me to be in scouts. Yes, forced, otherwise I would have quit. Scouts was huge for me. I went to Philmont and that is where I fell in love with backpacking.

bflorac
03-28-2012, 00:39
Sometimes you just ignore your local places. I grew up 1 1/2 north of NCY and have never been to the Statue of Liberty (when you still could climb it). My sister who when I was growing up would hike with a group of us every other weekend, now lives 5 miles from AT in VA yet had never stepped a foot on it till I started coming down from WI to hike there.

Bearleg
03-28-2012, 09:36
Remember if they do go out side and play, or visit a park, they should be given a particiaption trophy. lol:banana

Bronk
03-29-2012, 04:16
In a world where a single movie ticket is $10+, a $20 weekly admission fee isn't keeping anyone out of any unit of the NPS. Please, it's $50+ to fill up a small car's gas tank now.

I live on the edge of a national forest and can tell you if there were any kind of use fee it would severely limit how often I went. As it is, I am there 3 to 4 times a week during spring, summer and fall. There is one area here that does have a daily use fee of $2 to park or $8 to camp. This really makes me laugh because there are about 100,000 acres surrounding this area where you do not have to pay. For some reason many people are only comfortable staying at "officially designated campsites." There's a canoe rental place here also that has just a few acres with river frontage and is surrounded by thousands of acres of national forest...and in this state its legal to camp anywhere on the river bank and as long as you are below the high water line you are not trespassing. But this canoe rental place has people dumb enough to pay them to camp there, when they could literally walk 50 feet away and set up their tent on public property.

I think public property should be just that. If there are going to be fees, we might as well sell it to a private group who can run it at a profit.

rocketsocks
03-29-2012, 07:26
I live on the edge of a national forest and can tell you if there were any kind of use fee it would severely limit how often I went. As it is, I am there 3 to 4 times a week during spring, summer and fall. There is one area here that does have a daily use fee of $2 to park or $8 to camp. This really makes me laugh because there are about 100,000 acres surrounding this area where you do not have to pay. For some reason many people are only comfortable staying at "officially designated campsites." There's a canoe rental place here also that has just a few acres with river frontage and is surrounded by thousands of acres of national forest...and in this state its legal to camp anywhere on the river bank and as long as you are below the high water line you are not trespassing. But this canoe rental place has people dumb enough to pay them to camp there, when they could literally walk 50 feet away and set up their tent on public property.

I think public property should be just that. If there are going to be fees, we might as well sell it to a private group who can run it at a profit.Privatization would lead to developed land,careful what you wish for.

Mike2012
03-29-2012, 07:49
My parents took us to camp in the Shenandoahs and Cape Hatteras National Seashore areas. In summer camp and boy scouts I got out to the mountains of WV and PA. Out on my own and through the years I've enjoyed visiting, hiking, canoeing, surfing, fishing, backpacking, snowshoeing, skiing, swimming, working, volunteering and living in dozens of National Parks, Seashores and Monuments. What we don't have in centuries old palaces, castles, cathedrals and the like we make up for 100 fold in natural splendor. We are very blessed in that regard.

T-Dubs
03-29-2012, 10:29
I have a National Parks and Historic Places passport somewhere with a bunch of stamps.

Maybe they should include one of these with their high school diploma? http://bit.ly/GXHvAu

fins1838
03-29-2012, 10:45
I live in Maryland (2 hours from OC), & if I feel the need to go to the beach, I'll drive the 6 hours to the OBX or 10 hours to Cherry Grove SC. To put in bluntly. OC sucks.

JAK
03-29-2012, 10:58
I think Canadian parks are free on Canada Day Weekend. Good idea.

Miami Joe
03-29-2012, 11:41
Ahh too much time on xbox - nothing troubling about that.... (sarcastic)

I play Appalachian Trail for XBox 360. It's like Oregon Trail only without the oxen and guns and the characters subsist on pop tarts and weed. Seriously, folks, some people love the outdoors and some do not. It's all in how you're raised. I know high-tech granolas who pay to spend months in the woods and Army Rangers who wouldn't step into a forest if it wasn't in their job descriptions. If you have children, encourage their schools to schedule yearly field trips to a state park for a day hike and picnic. If you're a teacher, teach science class in the woods. (I'm not a teacher, but I volunteer my time to teach creative-writing workshops for high schoolers ... in the woods! It's so easy. I read passages of HDT and tell the kids to write what they see, hear, smell, etc ... !) When I was in sixth grade, our class spent an entire week camping. In high school, my marine biology class spent five days kayaking. Encourage high schoolers to join outdoors clubs at their schools. College intramural departments rent backpacking, canoeing and kayaking equipment. Teach them young!