View Full Version : The ATC and the salaries they pay out
DaSchwartz
03-28-2012, 00:52
http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/526/526046689/526046689_201012_990.pdf - so you can all check it out for yourselves, it's public record. The question is, do you think these salaries are kind of high or fair?
David Starzell - $106,800 plus $13,168 other compensation
Stephen Paradis - $95,933 plus $10,877 other compensation
1.9 million dollars in total salaries paid by the ATC for all it's employees.
As an Executive level manager with 1.9 million in total salaries the pay rate is appropriate. What is the total budget?
takethisbread
03-28-2012, 04:56
their revenues went up sharply so the pay is earned. my beef with them is that they are generally a advocacy group, that does some trail maintanance. Perhaps with their revenues the amount of sore spots on the trail particularly in Vermont and Maine shouldnt exist. i only notice them often from Goose Pond Cabin south. but maybe im just missing some of the work that i just didnt notice. it woud be interesting to see a map ofthe past 5 years work and the total dollars spent at each trail project.
earlyriser26
03-28-2012, 07:29
Salaries are actually low.
bigcranky
03-28-2012, 07:33
Yeah, those salaries are low for the required experience and job duties. Given what the CEO of an average nonprofit in the DC area makes, this is peanuts.
Pedaling Fool
03-28-2012, 07:37
It's funny how these threads that involve money get a lot of attention on this site. I can see where this is going:rolleyes:
Sarcasm the elf
03-28-2012, 07:42
Yeah, those salaries are low for the required experience and job duties. Given what the CEO of an average nonprofit in the DC area makes, this is peanuts.
I absolutely agree. A person with the skill and background required to run an organization like the ATC could pull in substantially more than $106k if they got a job in the private sector.
atmilkman
03-28-2012, 08:04
This might be a little of track (drift) but do ridgerunners work for ATC? I tried running a search on the site but got nothing. If so, how much do they make and what all does it entail? I've never met one, but it's been a long time since I've spent any real lenght of time on the AT.
HiKen2011
03-28-2012, 08:13
This might be a little of track (drift) but do ridgerunners work for ATC? I tried running a search on the site but got nothing. If so, how much do they make and what all does it entail? I've never met one, but it's been a long time since I've spent any real lenght of time on the AT.
Not sure but I think they are paid thru ATC. Not sure how much they make. I know Many Sleeps, he is stationed on Springer and pretty much lives there in a tent from March-April, maybe longer. He provides info on that area.
As an Executive level manager with 1.9 million in total salaries the pay rate is appropriate. What is the total budget?
It looks like the total budget is about 5 million. By this reasoning, the president of MIT (total budget over 1 billion) should be paid 20 million, and CEOs of major corporations should be paid billions.
Yeah, those salaries are low for the required experience and job duties. Given what the CEO of an average nonprofit in the DC area makes, this is peanuts.
They are not in DC, but in Appalachia where houses cost peanuts.
their revenues went up sharply so the pay is earned. my beef with them is that they are generally a advocacy group, that does some trail maintanance. Perhaps with their revenues the amount of sore spots on the trail particularly in Vermont and Maine shouldnt exist. i only notice them often from Goose Pond Cabin south. but maybe im just missing some of the work that i just didnt notice. it woud be interesting to see a map ofthe past 5 years work and the total dollars spent at each trail project.
Does ATC actually do any trail maintenance? They have crews that do some trail construction, but I think most people even on these crews are volunteers; of course, the tools and supplies are not free. Most trail construction and perhaps all trail maintenance is done by local clubs, primarily by volunteers; the paid construction crews are generally seasonal and work for peanuts (in heat and rain) without any benefits.
This might be a little of track (drift) but do ridgerunners work for ATC? I tried running a search on the site but got nothing. If so, how much do they make and what all does it entail? I've never met one, but it's been a long time since I've spent any real lenght of time on the AT.
I think a lot of them work either for local clubs (e.g. for GMC in VT) or are volunteers.
atmilkman
03-28-2012, 08:36
Thanks Ken and nehiker. I finally found it under Trail Management and Support under What We Do. Seems like an OK job.
HiKen2011
03-28-2012, 08:42
Thanks Ken and nehiker. I finally found it under Trail Management and Support under What We Do. Seems like an OK job.
Did you find the salary for the ridegrunners? Just curious how much that is.
No problem here with the pay. They do a good job.
kayak karl
03-28-2012, 08:49
Did you find the salary for the ridegrunners? Just curious how much that is.
http://www.matc.org/Employment.htm probably same in most states.
atmilkman
03-28-2012, 08:52
Did you find the salary for the ridegrunners? Just curious how much that is.
Nothing about how much the pay, they just give a phone number. http://www.appalachiantrail.org/what-we-do/trail-management-support/ridgerunners-caretakers
atmilkman
03-28-2012, 09:02
http://www.matc.org/Employment.htm probably same in most states.
Thanks for the link KK. 10 on and 4 off, work weekends, not bad. If I was younger and single I'd give it a go.
Jack Tarlin
03-28-2012, 09:25
To the original poster: I suggest you check out the salary/compensation packets of other similar environmental organizations such as the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy, etc. You will certainly discover that compared to similar organizations, the salaries/compensation of ATC employees is not only similar to these organizations but in most cases is lower, and in some cases, significantly lower.
CrumbSnatcher
03-28-2012, 10:18
don't know how much LP makes but it probably ain't enough!
she does a great job, & gives back to the trail more than most!
bob peoples should get a monthly check :-) and many more, good thing the trail has maintaineers.
You have to look at the total management. The ATC has less total managers on a 5 million budget. How many V.P.'s etc does MIT have? The school president has many managers to share the work load. If MIT had only two managers then your theory is valid. Same reasoning applies to the company CEO.
As an Executive level manager with 1.9 million in total salaries the pay rate is appropriate. What is the total budget?
It looks like the total budget is about 5 million. By this reasoning, the president of MIT (total budget over 1 billion) should be paid 20 million, and CEOs of major corporations should be paid billions.
Yeah, those salaries are low for the required experience and job duties. Given what the CEO of an average nonprofit in the DC area makes, this is peanuts.
They are not in DC, but in Appalachia where houses cost peanuts.
their revenues went up sharply so the pay is earned. my beef with them is that they are generally a advocacy group, that does some trail maintanance. Perhaps with their revenues the amount of sore spots on the trail particularly in Vermont and Maine shouldnt exist. i only notice them often from Goose Pond Cabin south. but maybe im just missing some of the work that i just didnt notice. it woud be interesting to see a map ofthe past 5 years work and the total dollars spent at each trail project.
Does ATC actually do any trail maintenance? They have crews that do some trail construction, but I think most people even on these crews are volunteers; of course, the tools and supplies are not free. Most trail construction and perhaps all trail maintenance is done by local clubs, primarily by volunteers; the paid construction crews are generally seasonal and work for peanuts (in heat and rain) without any benefits.
This might be a little of track (drift) but do ridgerunners work for ATC? I tried running a search on the site but got nothing. If so, how much do they make and what all does it entail? I've never met one, but it's been a long time since I've spent any real lenght of time on the AT.
I think a lot of them work either for local clubs (e.g. for GMC in VT) or are volunteers.
bob peoples should get a monthly check :-)
He does, from the Veterans Administration. (retired) ;)
double d
03-28-2012, 10:32
The total pay and compensation for the ATC's employees is well within the norm for non-profits in the U.S. I have to agree that some non-profits like the Red Cross pay huge salaries to their directors and top management, but overall, the ATC under-pays in my opinion for such an important organization. Good discussions on this topic as well.
I would agree that they are doing it because they love what they are doing, because for a similar job they could make more elsewhere.
Moose2001
03-28-2012, 10:46
wonder how the OP would feel if his salary were posted and we could debate is he's worth it?
imscotty
03-28-2012, 10:53
They are underpaid for this type of position. I presume they do it for their love of the AT.
WingedMonkey
03-28-2012, 12:34
wonder how the OP would feel if his salary were posted and we could debate is he's worth it?
Having been on both ends of non-profit organizations, both serving on boards and being a paid employee, I believe it is essential that salaries and compensation are public. As are all financial records.
Everyone from small donors to large contributors will want to know where their money goes.
Debate of the issue is healthy.
bigcranky
03-28-2012, 13:02
They are not in DC, but in Appalachia where houses cost peanuts.
The ATC headquarters are in Harper's Ferry, WV, which is definitely in the greater DC metro area, judging by the current sprawl of that city and how far people commute. It's somewhat rural/small town, but with more of a horse country feel than an "Appalachia" feel. Plenty of very expensive housing in the area.
Does ATC actually do any trail maintenance? They have crews that do some trail construction, but I think most people even on these crews are volunteers; of course, the tools and supplies are not free. Most trail construction and perhaps all trail maintenance is done by local clubs, primarily by volunteers; the paid construction crews are generally seasonal and work for peanuts (in heat and rain) without any benefits.
I volunteer on an ATC trail crew last year. There was a crew leader and a camp leader who were both paid employees of the ATC. I have no idea how much they were paid. While I was not paid for my time, all of the food was free along with access to showers and laundry. Of course the ATC provided all of the necessary tools along with transportation to the work site. Generally a base camp is setup near the work site but I was lucky enough to stay at the Scott Farm site since the work site was so close. I think there are 4 or 5 trail crews that each work 8 weeks in the spring and 8 more in the fall. All of the info is on the ATC website.
P.S. My time spent volunteering was very rewarding and I highly recommend it to anyone thinking about it.
As a matter of principle, I must object to anyone having more money or making more money than myself.
As a matter of principle, I must object to anyone having more money or making more money than myself.
This made me laugh. :)
The Old Boot
03-28-2012, 14:17
As a matter of principle, I must object to anyone having more money or making more money than myself.
How do you feel about those that make or have less money than you? Does the same principle apply there?
I say thank goodness we have the ATC.
Rain Man
03-28-2012, 16:52
They'd have to pay me more than that to uproot myself and my family and move to WV and to be dependent on charitable contributions, politicians, and volunteers. You ever heard of herding cats?!
Rain:sunMan
.
Kerosene
03-28-2012, 16:52
P.S. My time spent volunteering was very rewarding and I highly recommend it to anyone thinking about it.I hope to give back at least a week once I finish sectioning in 2014.
their revenues went up sharply so the pay is earned. my beef with them is that they are generally a advocacy group, that does some trail maintanance. Perhaps with their revenues the amount of sore spots on the trail particularly in Vermont and Maine shouldnt exist. i only notice them often from Goose Pond Cabin south. but maybe im just missing some of the work that i just didnt notice. it woud be interesting to see a map ofthe past 5 years work and the total dollars spent at each trail project.
The ATC budget doesn't begin to cover the cost of maintaining 2,200 miles of trail. ATC funnels money from the US Park Service, which owns most of the trail, to the various maintaining clubs that do most of the actual trail work. And, incidentally, raise most of the money costs and recruit most of the volunteers.
ATC acts as a coordinator among the clubs and as the club's voice in Washington. The park service delegates most of its day to day responsibilities to ATC, but sets the basic policy. It's a totally unique example of public/private cooperation.
ATC has five regional administrators that work with the 31 (at least count) maintaining clubs, and their many thousands of volunteers. Anyway, if you are unhappy with the trail in Maine, the group to complain to is the Maine Appalachian Trail Club (MATC)
How do you feel about those that make or have less money than you? Does the same principle apply there?I offer words of encouragement. :-)
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off his back.
Leo Tolstoy
How do you feel about those that make or have less money than you? Does the same principle apply there?I offer words of encouragement. :-)
I sit on a man's back, choking him and making him carry me, and yet assure myself and others that I am very sorry for him and wish to ease his lot by all possible means -- except by getting off his back.
Leo Tolstoy
Tolstoy was definitely not ultra light.
TJ aka Teej
03-28-2012, 19:05
As a member of the ATC with thousands of AT miles under my boots I thank all involved, from paid staff to volunteers.
I wish we could pay them more. They've earned it.
TJ aka Teej
03-28-2012, 19:12
Anyway, if you are unhappy with the trail in Maine, the group to complain to is the Maine Appalachian Trail Club (MATC)
I was volunteering in Baxter the day Minnesota Smith strolled up to the Ranger's cabin at KSC to complain the trail in Maine needed more maintenance. I asked his specific complaint and he said the trail went on and on for "scores of yards covered in unraked leaves".
I always marvel at those who walk two thousand miles, and haven't learned a thing.
Dances with Mice
03-28-2012, 19:24
That's in the ballpark for a mid-level Mickey Dee's manager, one overseeing a couple of restaurants.
106K plus bennies is lower than starting salaries for managers in my Corporation (ain't McDonald's) who could be in charge of about a dozen or so professional employees or a couple dozen non-technical employees.
Looks like the ATC got a great guy and are paying him peanuts.
rocketsocks
03-28-2012, 19:37
I don't care what anyone makes,the more the better for them.I could have done that kind of job to,but no I wanted to work with my hands:rolleyes:,and get dirty and beat my body up.We all make choices,they made a good one.Awesome!
DaSchwartz
03-28-2012, 21:38
To the original poster: I suggest you check out the salary/compensation packets of other similar environmental organizations such as the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy, etc. You will certainly discover that compared to similar organizations, the salaries/compensation of ATC employees is not only similar to these organizations but in most cases is lower, and in some cases, significantly lower.
Sierra Club http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/946/946069890/946069890_201012_990.pdf
Revenue: $51 million dollars, Salaries: $780,000....
ATC: Revenue 5.8 million Salaries 2.7 million...
The ATC certainly has some explaining to do.
Apples to Oranges. The Sierra clubs current priorities are fighting coal and oil production. The ATC is running a 2100 mile long trail.
To the original poster: I suggest you check out the salary/compensation packets of other similar environmental organizations such as the Sierra Club, Audubon Society, Nature Conservancy, etc. You will certainly discover that compared to similar organizations, the salaries/compensation of ATC employees is not only similar to these organizations but in most cases is lower, and in some cases, significantly lower.
Sierra Club http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/946/946069890/946069890_201012_990.pdf
Revenue: $51 million dollars, Salaries: $780,000....
ATC: Revenue 5.8 million Salaries 2.7 million...
The ATC certainly has some explaining to do.
Many non-profits out there spend 90% or more of the money they take in paying themselves huge salaries...and these crooks justify it by saying as long as the organization continues to operate they are doing more to help their cause than if they did nothing.
I honestly don't have an opinion about whether the people who work at the ATC are worth it or not. What do these people do to earn their salaries? If I had to guess how they fill up their 40 hour +/- work week I'd probably be way off the mark.
rocketsocks
03-29-2012, 05:56
Sierra Club http://dynamodata.fdncenter.org/990_pdf_archive/946/946069890/946069890_201012_990.pdf
Revenue: $51 million dollars, Salaries: $780,000....
ATC: Revenue 5.8 million Salaries 2.7 million...
The ATC certainly has some explaining to do.What exactly is it that you think requires explaining and to whom should this be explained?You apparently have the numbers,41 post have been written,what exactly is your point?If you feel there is an injustice here,just say it,I call,whatta ya got?
atmilkman
03-29-2012, 07:49
What exactly is it that you think requires explaining and to whom should this be explained?You apparently have the numbers,41 post have been written,what exactly is your point?If you feel there is an injustice here,just say it,I call,whatta ya got?
Maybe Aces and Eights or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNYKxiRJ2LA
rocketsocks
03-29-2012, 08:34
Maybe Aces and Eights or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNYKxiRJ2LA
Yeah me too,hey I didnt know Kevin Bacon 2:21 and Howie Mandel 4:31were in sticks!and also at 2:21looks like Cheryl Ladd with a Go-tee.Good tune!havn't heard that in a long time.
I am curious if any of the posters who are dissing the ATC are members or ever were? If so, they would know what the ATC is about. FYI, Dave Startzell retired last year after many years of service to the ATC. I would hate to imagine what the trail would be like without the ATC. The ATC advocates for the trail, has been instrumental in its protection, getting it off of private land onto public land, running a number of trail crews for about the past 20 years, protecting the trail from encroaching development, lobbying congress for funding. The trail crews work on projects the local clubs can't tackle like the boardwalk across the Pochuck, trail relocations, bridges, major rock work, etc. I have worked on 10 of these crews up and down the trail and encourage everyone to consider doing so. It costs money to run these crews. The crew leaders and other paid staff are not getting rich doing this, believe me. I don't think most of the ATC staff is making big bucks. I applied for a regional director position about 25 years ago but could not afford it. I hope they are making more today. I think some of the ridgerunners are paid by the ATC but many are employed by local clubs.
LIhikers
03-30-2012, 00:22
don't know how much LP makes but it probably ain't enough!
she does a great job, & gives back to the trail more than most!
..........
She is the face, and voice, of the ATC as far as I'm concerned!
Wise Old Owl
03-30-2012, 01:51
Many non-profits out there spend 90% or more of the money they take in paying themselves huge salaries...and these crooks justify it by saying as long as the organization continues to operate they are doing more to help their cause than if they did nothing.
I honestly don't have an opinion about whether the people who work at the ATC are worth it or not. What do these people do to earn their salaries? If I had to guess how they fill up their 40 hour +/- work week I'd probably be way off the mark.
I don't agree... There is a lot of work effort coordination... hours and thankless weekends... honest. I would not say crook...that's reserved for Nixon.
Thank goodness we have JAK...