View Full Version : Angels or Profiteers?
This is related to EddHigbee's post, sort of.
Last year I hitched a ride from a fellow from (???? some VA road crossing) into Marion, VA, and the whole time he talked about how expensive gas was... I'm kind of dim, so I didn't get the hint that he wanted money.
I want to get some opinions on this, though it may have already been addressed. How well should one tip trail angels providing 4 wheeled transportation? Now, I don't mean payment, since that would imply that the service is for profit... but just a couple bucks for gas??? A dollar every two miles?
What about the people who are trying to make a buck? Don't pay em, and hope they go away? How to distinguish the two?
I'm not stingy, cheap, etc., and I am more than happy to offer gratuity to someone who is authentic in their desire to help hiker trash. At the same time, I don't like people trying to hustle me.
jeepcj258
03-31-2005, 11:45
If you are hitching the ride, they are doing you the favor. If you hitch the ride, I would certainly offer a few bucks, especially if they take you an extended distance. I have always at least offfered, but I have never had any one take me up on. But they are doing you a favor, if you call a shuttle service that is different, you know the price before you get service so of course you will pay.
As far as someone asking for money when they pick you up?? Thankfully that has never happened to me, so I have no advice.
God Bless
Seth
Jack Tarlin
03-31-2005, 11:50
There are almost no Trail-town or re-supply oriented hitches that go over 15 miles, and most are MUCH shorter, in the two to five mile range.
In nearly all cases, you're under no obligation to pay for a short hitch.
For really long hitches, such as going home, or well off the Trail to vist someone, etc., you should make the offer to help out. Likewise, if you're staying in town somewhere, or at a hostel, or if someone puts you up, and then goes out of their way for you (like, say, taking you from Erwin to Johnson City), you should absolutely offer a contribution.
Keep in mind also that when someone goes way out of their way for you, you're not only burning their gas and putting wear and tear on their vehicle, but they're also giving you a good deal of time. What do YOU make back home, and what's an hour or two of YOUR time worth? I've heard a lot of bitching about shuttling costs this year, and it's nonsense. Gasoline prices have skyrocketed recently, but many shuttlers haven't changed their rates in years. Have YOU worked three or four years without a raise?
Think about it.
Anyway, to sum up:
*Short hitches are traditionally free
*On long rides, or when people go out of their way for you, offer to help
them out
*Any questions or doubts about whether or not the driver wants to be paid?
Ask him.
*And likewise, if you're the one PROVIDING the ride, if you expect money for
the service, be up front about it and let your rider know at the outset, and
not when he's getting out of the car. That way, he can decline the ride if
he chooses and there are no unpleasant surprises at the end of the trip.
a group of us offered a guy 8 bucks in Glasgow to give us a ride back to the trail about 6 miles. He happily did that, as he already had a beer started in his truck and was in no rush to get home to his "woman". It only cost 2 bucks a piece and we were kinda desperate since no one was giving us any attention.
But most of the time, people who are going your way are going your way and don;t mind. Like Jack says, its when people take you 15-30 miles out of the way that you should offer to pitch in some money or buy then some lunch.
If you HITCHED a ride, IMHO it would be appropriate to offer the driver something for gas. Many will refuse the money, others will take it, but you should at least OFFER. As for the amount, that's likely to vary based on the specific circumstances (length of shuttle, time involved, the price of gas at the time, maybe even the weather). Assuming you have some pocket money, how much is this favor worth to you?
Now, if you CALL a shuttle provider and pre-arrange a shuttle, you should be prepared to pay whatever that driver expects. Most drivers will work that out in advance over the phone (or by e-mail), but a few who are leery of the regs of the National Park Service or USFS (if a driver is picking up or discharging within their boundaries they can sometimes demand the driver buy special permits and huge insurance upgrades) may not be willing or able to quote a firm price over the phone (fear of entrapment). In those cases, the cost might not be revealed until the shuttle takes place.
In my experience, pre-arranged shuttles have traditionally cost about $1 a mile, but that was before gas prices soared. I know of drivers now getting $1.25/$1.50 a mile--and sometimes those not trying to supplement their income by doing shuttles will charge less. But you should be prepared for the possibility of something in the $1.25 range. Also, where the driver is coming FROM to meet you may be a factor--if far away, there may be a supplemental charge.
Lone Wolf
03-31-2005, 12:02
I do shuttles for .75 per mile or less depending on the situation.
Footslogger
03-31-2005, 12:32
Well ...to me, a shuttle has a different meaning than a "hitch". A shuttle is an established service and I expect to pay something when I am shuttled from one place to another.
As a matter of practice when I hitch a ride, I always offer to pay the driver for their gas/time. Maybe just my experience but when I have been picked up while hitching, the drivers have never asked to be paid.
'Slogger
i've grabbed a couple hitches in the past few years...
& have ALWAYS offered money to driver.....they've never taken any.
NOW ON THE OTHER HAND....
i've had several shuttles over the past few years...
i had one shuttle from NOC to Standing Indian that cost me over $100.!
....talk about taking advantage of HIKERS! ;)
(and she was on her way home!)
The Gnome
03-31-2005, 13:05
As someone who offers both a professional shuttle service AND has used many other shuttles while section hiking, I feel entitled to comment.
I don't know of anyone who shuttles "For Profit" other than the Taxi services that appear in the shuttle list.
I've never sat down and worked through the calculations to figure out if I make a "profit". I suspect I run at a loss. I do know that if I borrow my Wife's car, the penny pinching bean counter charges ME 1$/mile AND I'm expected to top off the tank (at 2.30$/gallon).
I do shuttling because I enjoy meeting fellow hikers and learning news from the trail. I have a list of charges and there is no ambiguity.
When I have used other shuttles it is normally associated with a Hotel stay and I suspect the service is run as a "lost leader" to attract custom. 1$/mile seems to be the norm and I usually tip the driver 5$ for all the helpful hints and gossip I pick up.
On occasions I've hitched a ride into town and I've always offered a fiver as "beer money". Its always been soundly refused, usually with a tale of some young relative who was shown kindness by strangers in another part of the world. Country folk have the sort of genuine kind hearts that were beaten out of us urbanites generations ago.
My advise when hitching a ride, particularly of more than three or four miles, or involving a detour, would be to START the conversation on the high price of gas (an endless topic anyway) and work around to an offer to pay. Then the refusal seems in place and you tried.
Lets face it: Sitting in a nice warm truck speeding towards a comfortable Hotel bed beats limping along the side the road with freezing rain running down the back of your neck.
Worth a few pennies ?
Kerosene
03-31-2005, 13:37
I do shuttles for .75 per mile or less depending on the situation.Is that on the back of your Harley? :D
hikerjohnd
03-31-2005, 13:40
Is that on the back of your Harley? :D
$0.75 per mile to ride on the bitch seat? For that kind of coin I want to drive! :cool:
Brushy Sage
03-31-2005, 14:02
I remember calling a guy in Franklin, NC whose name and number were on a list of shuttling services, and he came the next morning to take me back up to the trail crossing. He didn't mention any price. On the way up the mountain I asked him what his charge was, and he simply pointed to a container on the dash and said contributions go in there.
Rain Man
03-31-2005, 14:58
i had one shuttle from NOC to Standing Indian that cost me over $100.! ....talk about taking advantage of HIKERS! ;) (and she was on her way home!)
Yes, if she was on her way home anyway, and unless she's a commercial carrier, sounds like a HUGE rip-off to me.
Should've done what I did.... befriended a local hiker on my Standing Indian section hike and he said to let him know if I ever needed a ride. So, when I did my section hike into Wesser, I called him first. He and his wife and their dogs gave me a ride one rainy night from Wesser back to my truck at Rainbow Springs Campground, for FREE. I offered to pay. And they had to make a special trip from Robbinsville. Talk about nice folks you meet on the trail!!!
Might've helped that I had mailed him pics I had taken of him and his dog on Albert Mountain.
Rain:sunMan
.
smokymtnsteve
03-31-2005, 15:01
rainman...you skeemer you ;)
The Solemates
03-31-2005, 15:34
Yes, if she was on her way home anyway, and unless she's a commercial carrier, sounds like a HUGE rip-off to me.
Should've done what I did.... befriended a local hiker on my Standing Indian section hike and he said to let him know if I ever needed a ride. So, when I did my section hike into Wesser, I called him first. He and his wife and their dogs gave me a ride one rainy night from Wesser back to my truck at Rainbow Springs Campground, for FREE. I offered to pay. And they had to make a special trip from Robbinsville. Talk about nice folks you meet on the trail!!!
Might've helped that I had mailed him pics I had taken of him and his dog on Albert Mountain.
Rain:sunMan
.
oh yea. there were several times we befriended people in town so we could just ask them for a ride back. i think we both benefited. they wanted to here about our trail experiences and live through us. we wanted a ride back. we both were happy.
Rain Man
03-31-2005, 20:27
rainman...you skeemer you ;)
MOI, Steve?! Maybe he wuz skeemin', 'cause he asked fer tha pics and offered me a ride anytime I wuz on the trail near Robbinsville. Sounds to me like I could twist that into he wuz the one after sumthin'.
Truly, I was grateful fer the offer on the mountain top, and to discover it was genuine down in the valley!
Now... who wants their picture took next week in tha Smokies?!!!
Rain:sunMan
.
Thanks for the timely answer to my question... one more week!