gotta joint?

[beachbunny]

so what do all the ole' geezers do that still love to hike but get sooooore joints?

[hikerboy57]

vitamin A, carbs.rest,hike. repeat.

[d.o.c]

a good use for "THC" it can help alot after a hard painful day.. just saying not tring to start a debate on this.

[Pedaling Fool]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-OoVQPmfZ4o&feature=relmfu

[d.o.c]

ha my first thought when i read the name of this thread http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jS30OfLFbRM hehe :)

[Don H]

Slow down
Go light (use older guys have the money to spend on gear)
Vitamin I
Hiking poles.

[rocketsocks]

I have heard you can take up to 4000 milligrams per day of Ibuprofen,and I have,but not often,but every day!

[lemon b]

Use poles, lighten up, concentrate on the right footware, walk everyday, progressively work up the mileage, watch the diet. Good luck.

[fiddlehead]

Start off already in shape for hiking.
Don't drink too much. (alcohol)
Stay hydrated.
Slow and steady is the key.
Don't get hooked on the Ibuprofen.
Don't carry too much weight.
Learn how to go uphill.
Learn how to go downhill.

[moytoy]

Use poles, lighten up, concentrate on the right footware, walk everyday, progressively work up the mileage, watch the diet. Good luck.Thats about the best advise your going to get. I'm 64 very soon to be 65 and I walk 5 days every week at least 6 miles without stopping. I've been doing this for about 12 years. The only days I ever see a TV is on Sat. and Sunday nights. I will say that you can improve on just walking by also doing some weight training. Especially in the thigh and hip muscles. But building leg muscles by weight training takes some study. You must build all muscles not just one or two. If you do it correctly you can move down the trail and feel like you did when you were 25 and maybe even better because you know not to take it for granted.

[beachbunny]

right don, i know what you mean,kids off to college, so i traded the mismatched ski poles for a pair of lekis and the boy scout external frame kelty for a ku5200.funny how folks think alike but what about glucosimine chondroitin or other joint relief formulas? i imagine you'all know how it is,young heart, "mature" body. i feel like the old bull

[Don H]

I used GC on my thru last year. Don't know if it worked on the joints but it sure makes you hair and fingernails grow!

[Kerosene]

To some extent, the appropriate treatment for "sore knees" depends on the underlying problem, but for many of us aging athletes it tends to relate to osteo-arthritis, prior ligament/meniscus damage, and loss of cartilage. Symptoms include various types of knee pain, with or without swelling.

As mentioned in other posts, preventive measures such as targeted exercises and weightlifting can help stabilize the knee, especially for those with ligament damage. Frankly, most of us -- male and female, young and old -- would benefit from such strengthening, even if there is no history of ligament tears. Most men tend to have weak hamstrings overmatched by quad strength, but even then may not have the ideal pronounced "V" above and inside the knee that orthos like to see. Most women tend to have weak quads, at least starting out on the AT, and are more susceptible to knee injuries due to the more acute angle from hip to knee.

Almost everyone beyond the age of 50 has had a meniscus tear at some point, although many never realize it. The cartilage becomes brittle with age and more susceptible to tearing. There is very little evidence that all of the joint medicines out there really make much of a difference. In my research (circa 2007) the only formulation that had a measurable impact, albeit negligible, was glucosamine sulfate (Whole Foods, $19 for 90, 500mg tablets) at 1000mg at breakfast and dinner. It's hard to tell if this really worked for me or if it was just time and strengthening, but I no longer have pain in the knee where I'm missing cartilage.

As for osteo-arthritis, something that almost every former athlete will endure as they age, all you can really do is lose weight, go lighter, go slower (especially on steep downhills which tend to over-tire your quads which are needed to keep your knee stable), avoid overuse, and reduce inflammation. I lean towards 12-hour dosing of Aleve (naproxum sodium) as an easier-to-manage alternative to Vitamin I (ibuprofen), which requires 4-6 hour dosing. I typically start with 440mg at breakfast and dinner, upping the dose over the course of a weeklong section hike only if I really need it to keep going. In my (unfortunately frequent) discussions with physicians, a daily dose of 1200mg or higher for a few days may be merited (I've never heard of 4000mg dosing), but you really don't want to be at that level for more than a week without medical oversight. Make sure you stay hydrated, stay away from alcohol, and note that an increased pulserate and dizziness/tiredness may result from excessive dosing. Heavy dosing is hard on your liver. You might also take advantage of immersing an aching knee in a cold stream in the middle of the day, along with your barking dogs.

Outside of invasive surgery, you might also see an ortho to see if they can suggest bracing to help. I've found that they will tend to go for the over-engineered braces (the big, cumbersome braces that never seem to stay in place and rub you raw after a day of hiking), so see if one of the less expensive over-the-counter braces (Cho-Pat, knee sleeve, etc.) works for you.

Hope this helps. I'm not going to let it stop me, but it's hard to not be frustrated with having to go slower than my heart can take or shorter than my endurance level. Getting old is so much fun, but it's better than the alternative I guess.

[Snowleopard]

I have heard you can take up to 4000 milligrams per day of Ibuprofen,and I have,but not often,but every day!
TOO MUCH!! The normal dose of Ibuprofen is 1200 milligrams/day. Prescription strength is 2400 milligrams/day. You should really talk to a doctor about dosage before you go over 1200 mg/day. At 4000mg in a day, you should be seeing your doctor about the causes and whether another med would be better. Over-the-counter pain killers are not completely harmless. I have a cousin who suffered kidney failure by excessive use of over-the-counter pain killers for arthritis (I'm not sure which pain killer). Overdosing with tylenol, especially combined with alcohol consumption, will cause liver damage; the margin between dangerous overdose of tylenol and safe dosage is rather small.

As others have said:
hiking poles,
light weight gear,
lose weight if overweight,
proper exercises and stretches for knees and hips,
build up distance gradually,
if something hurts, find out why (see doctor, get physical therapy/orthotics/exercises as prescribed).

[jeffmeh]

A number of studies now suggest that NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and naproxen actually inhibit muscle regeneration and musculoskeletal injury healing. I used to take plenty of "vitamin I" before and after hiking to help with inflammation and dull the aches and pains, but no longer. I would certainly consider it rarely to temporarily deal with some acute pain, but that's it at this point.

Eating fairly primal or paleo removes most of the foods that promote inflammation, and a good omega-3 supplement helps also. I'm not religious about the diet, but it does seem to work for me. That would be tough to keep up on a thru-hike, but perhaps a challenge worth considering.

[QiWiz]

Hiking poles and SLOW down when going downhill, lighten your pack (I mean it), lose some belly weight, and take vitamin A (Aleve) as needed.

[Tipi Walter]

I've entered geezerhood after 30+ years of backpacking but my last several trips have been with heavy packs including 18 days in the Snowbirds with an 85 lb pack and 20 days in the Citico wilderness with a 100 lb pack. No joint problems to speak of although occasionally there is the usual snap crackle and pop. One time I had 75 lbs going up the nutbuster of Mill Branch and pulled a calf tendon bad when trying to run uphill from a hornet nest. Heard a snap and the next thing I was on the ground. I had 9 more days of the trip so I favored the thing and it got better.

I believe the more the body does in one's chosen field (backpacking), the more the body "grows around it" and configures itself to perform that job. Backpacking strengthens legs and ankles and back muscles and stomach muscles and tendons and ligaments and the more you do the better the body adjusts. Case in point---more calcium is deposited onto bones which are active versus on bones of couch potatoes.

So, start young and never stop. 30 or 40 years of backpacking will tone the mechanics of a body and sculpt a flesh-machine used to the rigors of such humpage. Guys who start backpacking in their 40's or 50's or god forbid their 60's will have all sorts of problems.

"Carry less" always seems to be the main mantra but it's not and I'm proof of it. "Going slow" on the other hand is valuable advice for anyone, esp those who want to stay out for weeks at a time and carry tremendous loads.

[Chaco Taco]

I have heard you can take up to 4000 milligrams per day of Ibuprofen,and I have,but not often,but every day!
And Nuke your liver

[Chaco Taco]

A number of studies now suggest that NSAIDs (non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs) like ibuprofen, acetaminophen, and naproxen actually inhibit muscle regeneration and musculoskeletal injury healing. I used to take plenty of "vitamin I" before and after hiking to help with inflammation and dull the aches and pains, but no longer. I would certainly consider it rarely to temporarily deal with some acute pain, but that's it at this point.

Eating fairly primal or paleo removes most of the foods that promote inflammation, and a good omega-3 supplement helps also. I'm not religious about the diet, but it does seem to work for me. That would be tough to keep up on a thru-hike, but perhaps a challenge worth considering.
All Ibu does is covers it up and eats your liver. You make a great point about Omega 3- Fish oil is good to carry.

There is a tried and true thing you can carry that is really strong and all natural- Tiger Balm. Best stuff in the world. The main thing is to stretch often and realize that when you walk 10-17 miles day, you are going to have aches and pain and not stretching regularly has consequences.

[rocketsocks]

I've entered geezerhood after 30+ years of backpacking but my last several trips have been with heavy packs including 18 days in the Snowbirds with an 85 lb pack and 20 days in the Citico wilderness with a 100 lb pack. No joint problems to speak of although occasionally there is the usual snap crackle and pop. One time I had 75 lbs going up the nut buster of Mill Branch and pulled a calf tendon bad when trying to run uphill from a hornet nest. Heard a snap and the next thing I was on the ground. I had 9 more days of the trip so I favored the thing and it got better.

I believe the more the body does in one's chosen field (backpacking), the more the body "grows around it" and configures itself to perform that job. Backpacking strengthens legs and ankles and back muscles and stomach muscles and tendons and ligaments and the more you do the better the body adjusts. Case in point---more calcium is deposited onto bones which are active versus on bones of couch potatoes.

So, start young and never stop. 30 or 40 years of backpacking will tone the mechanics of a body and sculpt a flesh-machine used to the rigors of such humpage. Guys who start backpacking in their 40's or 50's or god forbid their 60's will have all sorts of problems.

"Carry less" always seems to be the main mantra but it's not and I'm proof of it. "Going slow" on the other hand is valuable advice for anyone, esp those who want to stay out for weeks at a time and carry tremendous loads.Walter,I believe you Sir are the exception to the rule.I agree with what your saying with regard to calcium deposits,and the body adjusting to the work load.I have been slinging pipe for 30 years and my body is whooped,plain and simple,doc said your done,you've used it all up,yep over use (among other things).I have worked with guys that are 70 and they just won't quit,they say if they do,the'll die.bust there asses they do,and never seem to have any problems,again they are the exception to the rule,(norm).God bless ya,and I hope you can hike like that forever.:sunSeeing your pictures and reading your trip reports motivates me to try.....

[peakbagger]

My cousin works for a rheumetologist who works with the elderly with joint problems. They buy Glucosamine/Chronditin by the case load and put most of their new patients on it. I notice a difference when I use it versus when I dont but it does takes weeks to months for it to become effective. All its does is keeps whatever cartiledge that is left functioning if its gone it wont regrow it

[beachbunny]

I used GC on my thru last year. Don't know if it worked on the joints but it sure makes you hair and fingernails grow!

thanks peak, i'll take still functioning,plus the the hair and nails :sun

[JAK]

I've heard that too much Ibuprofin interferes with the bodies natural inflamation and repair process.

[Pedaling Fool]

I have a little of a theory; I really believe we need illness and pain to build a stronger body. People that do all they can to avoid sickness and pain are cheating themselves in the long run. I'll never take those anti-inflammatory drugs.

[hikerboy57]

its good to pay attention to aches and pains before we go off dosing.its very easy to further damage what was a slight muscle pull (or tear)when you've taken antiinflammatories. so you do need to excercise some caution. I usually use Advil for aches.

[Lone Wolf]

suck it up. pain is just weakness leaving the body

[hikerboy57]

suck it up. pain is just weakness leaving the bodypain is a sign somethings wrong."playing thru pain" is not a good idea.

[Old Boots]

Daily walking - lighten the load - slow and easy does it. 10 mile days are plenty, and maybe sometimes too much. Learn to listen to your body. Rest when you need it.

[Wise Old Owl]

I have heard you can take up to 4000 milligrams per day of Ibuprofen,and I have,but not often,but every day!


TOO MUCH!! The normal dose of Ibuprofen is 1200 milligrams/day. Prescription strength is 2400 milligrams/day. You should really talk to a doctor about dosage before you go over 1200 mg/day. At 4000mg in a day, you should be seeing your doctor about the causes and whether another med would be better. Over-the-counter pain killers are not completely harmless. I have a cousin who suffered kidney failure by excessive use of over-the-counter pain killers for arthritis (I'm not sure which pain killer). Overdosing with tylenol, especially combined with alcohol consumption, will cause liver damage; the margin between dangerous overdose of tylenol and safe dosage is rather small.

As others have said:
hiking poles,
light weight gear,
lose weight if overweight,
proper exercises and stretches for knees and hips,
build up distance gradually,
if something hurts, find out why (see doctor, get physical therapy/orthotics/exercises as prescribed).

Sorry RocketSocks - even my liver would croak - All the above and Aleve is the prescription so far... Lately he have me on Oxycontin for the moment so I need to involve the specialist again.

[jeffmeh]

suck it up. pain is just weakness leaving the body

Seen many a shirt with that quote in the wrestling ranks. I would also point out that there is a difference from being hurt and being injured, and understanding that difference is critical.

[jeffmeh]

Seen many a shirt with that quote in the wrestling ranks. I would also point out that there is a difference from being hurt and being injured, and understanding that difference is critical.

Difference between. Darn missing edit function....

[Wise Old Owl]

Subscribe - its cheaper than cable....

[rocketsocks]

Sorry Rocket Socks - even my liver would croak - All the above and Aleve is the prescription so far... Lately he have me on Oxycontin for the moment so I need to involve the specialist again.Yeah.I've taken that one to,didn't like the withdrawal,shakes ,sweats,but it sure took away the pain.Careful with that one,it's sneaky with it's exaggerated sense of well being.:)

[HiKen2011]

Dun smoked mine, damn my knee hurts

[Lone Wolf]

Seen many a shirt with that quote in the wrestling ranks. I would also point out that there is a difference from being hurt and being injured, and understanding that difference is critical.

it's a Marine Corps thing. ibuprofen is BS long term.

[rocketsocks]

Difference between. Darn missing edit function....Yeah,I know what you mean,I've written some really S***y ones that just Bombed,not everyone likes S***y humour.

[MyName1sMud]

It would be a lot cooler if you diddddddddddddd

[Seeker]

2x Glucosamine and 3x Fish Oil pills per day. takes about 6 weeks to get your body adjusted, but then it's easy to keep up.

[Veetack]

I'm not old, but I broke my back when I was younger, and I really prefer a joint pain multivitamin and knowing my limits. I hike fast, but I tend to break more often for less time, as it helps me better.