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gram cracker
04-02-2012, 08:48
I'm planning a very long hike/bicycle ride on roads. I don't know if I'll ever get the chance to do it as it would take a year. But I thought I'd ask the question.

My plan is to bring a small van to sleep in and a bicycle. In the morning, I'd leave the bicycle and drive the van 20 miles ahead. Then walk to the bicycle and ride it to the van.

The way it works out, at the end, I will have ridden the bicycle forward on the route and walked each leg backwards.

The reason I want the van is a lot of areas are getting rougher on the homeless and I figure stealth camping is getting more risky. The other reason is in many areas, getting water may be a big problem.

The route is about 7,000 miles long.

ScottP
04-02-2012, 09:02
yeah, that's a thru hike and a thru-ride.

just an idea--might want to hike uphill and bike downhill when possible.

steveinator
04-02-2012, 09:10
Why not just carry your belongings on your bike and sleep in a tent/churches/hostels along the way?

Firefighter503
04-02-2012, 09:14
Why not just ride the bike from hostel to hostel, or hotel, or motel, or B&B or whatever. Seems like a lot of extra work to move the van, walk 20 miles back to the bike, adn then ride the bike right back to the van every day. If you walked at 4 mies an hour on pavement, it would take your 5 hours to walk back to your bike every day, just to turn around and ride right back to your van. Also, once you get on your bike, you will be able to do more than 20 miles a day in no time. I dunno, to each his own, but I'd rather just bike the whole way and find somewhere you can sleep if you are worried about stealth camping etc.

Cookerhiker
04-02-2012, 09:43
Good luck on your approach. You will face many challenges.

I've bike-hiked a few sections of the AT. I've found that generally, the biking is more strenuous than the hiking so the suggestion to try to bike downhill and hike uphill is a good one. One ideal section for this is in PA just beyond the Susquehanna River. Park at the Trail intersection of Rt. 225, bike to the intersection at Rt. 325, hike back to your car. And although I did not bike-hike in Shenandoah NP or the segment south of it along the Blue Ridge Parkway, they would also work although the up-and-down roads would again make the biking pretty tough.

But this is the exception. You'll find that some stretches are simply not conducive to biking either because the biking distance is too great (or too steep) or the roads are unsafe for biking. The Smokies and the White Mountains are obvious examples where a daily bike-and-hike simply wouldn't work. Georgia and North Carolina through Winding Stair Gap would be a challenge. Virginia west of I-81 between Rt. 42 and Bland is also difficult. The problem in Connecticut is safety in that the connector road - Rt. 7 - is narrow with enough traffic to make it harrowing.

So I doubt it would work for the entire AT. Suggest you come prepared to backpack some stretches for 2-3 days using shuttlers or hitchhiking.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 10:40
This isn't for the AT. It's a hike/ride touching all 48 states which I hope to do in 10 months. It may include about 300 miles of the AT. I'd hike SB and ride NB on roads. On that stretch, I'll ride north, leave my bike and hike back to the van.

I have the route planned and I've started getting in shape. It would be 6,996 miles plus bonus miles.

max patch
04-02-2012, 10:45
Not for me but if thats what you want to do then go for it!

Have you hiked on roads much? Gets much hotter than in the woods - and in some places you'll have no choice but to walk on the road and not beside it. These would be my biggest issues. Good luck.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 11:04
Not for me but if thats what you want to do then go for it!

Have you hiked on roads much? Gets much hotter than in the woods - and in some places you'll have no choice but to walk on the road and not beside it. These would be my biggest issues. Good luck.

Yes, I've done 655 miles on the roads in the past few months. The route is planned so I should be north of the real hot places in the summer. I don't mind heat as long as I have enough water. The big unknown is the effect on my body of hiking a lot of miles each day with few zero days. I'm working on building that number up. There are some different gear needs than for hiking on trails.

The biggest problem will be Nevada. I'll be going southbound almost the whole length. I plan to hit there in early October and see what happens.

Right now, it's still in the dream phase, but I'm starting to act like it will happen.

Creek Dancer
04-02-2012, 11:12
This is an Appalachian Trail forum, but you say this isn't for the AT. So I guess I don't get your original question. Would this be considered a thru-hike of what?

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 11:14
This is an Appalachian Trail forum, but you say this isn't for the AT. So I guess I don't get your original question. Would this be considered a thru-hike of what?

I understand it's not an AT question. I pondered for a month or so if I should even ask here. I couldn't find any other forum were it seemed appropriate. The most experienced hikers seem to come here.

A through hike of a 48 state route.

ScottP
04-02-2012, 12:01
It sounds like an amazing trip to me.

I can't see the biking being harder than the hiking. 20 miles on a decent roadbike, even on hilly roads, is only a bit over an hour for a moderately fit rider.

Winds
04-02-2012, 12:13
I don't quite understand this here. If you get from one end of this country to the other BOTH hiking and biking - with the enormity of the task I imagine you can call it anything you'd like, and everyone will be fine with your designation.

Good luck!
:)

Cookerhiker
04-02-2012, 12:50
I guess what threw me was how the question was phrased "Would this be considered a thru-hike?" I took that to mean you were covering the entire AT through bike hikes.


...I can't see the biking being harder than the hiking. 20 miles on a decent roadbike, even on hilly roads, is only a bit over an hour for a moderately fit rider.

Maybe I'm only speaking for myself but I found the biking noticeably harder. Remember, the hiking portion is with a light daypack.

My bike is a hybrid, not a roadbike.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 13:23
Windy,

Thanks for the laugh. Maybe that's what I'll call it. "Whatever you want."

Since it will be on roads, the biking part will be simple. Especially since I won't have to make good time.

Winds
04-02-2012, 13:36
WindS are calm now, thanks.

See now, I said 'anything you'd like' so in a play on that you could call it:

The Everything I Like National Bike/Hike Thru-Tour

Or more simply by it's acronym: TEILNB/HT-T
:)

Slo-go'en
04-02-2012, 13:52
Why the heck would you want to walk back to the van? On roads no less? If your not carrying any gear, 'cuz its all in the van, you can easialy do 100 miles on a bike in a day. Ride the bike one way for half the day and then ride it back. You'll cover 2 or 3 times as much ground that way each day.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 13:58
Maybe I could call it "Stupid Hiker's Idiodic Trip."

If I do it, I'll have a lot of time to think about a title.

BabySue
04-02-2012, 14:00
New abbreviation: BHYOBH. Bike-hike your own bike-hike. (Since BYOB is taken)

Winds
04-02-2012, 14:04
Nice acronym for that! S. H. I. T. Haha.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 14:09
Why the heck would you want to walk back to the van? On roads no less? If your not carrying any gear, 'cuz its all in the van, you can easialy do 100 miles on a bike in a day. Ride the bike one way for half the day and then ride it back. You'll cover 2 or 3 times as much ground that way each day.

The focus is on the walking. Not the riding. The bike part is just to make it happen. Walking is a completely different experience than riding a bicycle. I thought about bringing a motorcycle on a trailer, but I figured adding in the bicycle trip would be more fun.

I'm one of those strange people who enjoys walking on roads. I meet a lot of interesting people along the way.

Slo-go'en
04-02-2012, 14:40
The focus is on the walking. Not the riding. I'm one of those strange people who enjoys walking on roads. I meet a lot of interesting people along the way.

Okay, I guess I can see that. Good luck!

Winds
04-02-2012, 14:44
(Ok, last one here...)

Cracker, then the new name with your selected phrase could be:

S.H.I.T. on the Road

Perfect!

hikerboy57
04-02-2012, 14:46
im not sure what this hike qualifies for, but i am sure theres a man patch for it.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 14:54
(Ok, last one here...)

Cracker, then the new name with your selected phrase could be:

S.H.I.T. on the Road

Perfect!

Winds,

Maybe I could change my trail name to chicken.

Miami Joe
04-02-2012, 14:56
So, let me get this straight. You'll actually be driving, walking and biking about 21,000 miles.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 15:20
So, let me get this straight. You'll actually be driving, walking and biking about 21,000 miles.

That would be the total of the 3.

Walking: 8 hours a day
Driving: 30 minutes
Riding: 1.5 hours.

I should be done in 10 hours each day. Add in a couple hours for rest during the day and I'll only be traveling half days.

All the numbers are conservative.

The biggest question is the effects of the walking. Road miles are a lot easier than trail miles. The route is relatively flat. Plus I'd essentially be slackpacking the whole way. Resupply won't be a problem as I'll have the van to carry things until I get to a town.

I've never had a blister or knee problems. I'll be able to switch shoes each day depending on how my feet feel.

In many ways, it could be easier than the AT.

ScottP
04-02-2012, 15:26
walking on roads drops a hammer on your body.

Cookerhiker
04-02-2012, 15:32
That would be the total of the 3.

Walking: 8 hours a day
Driving: 30 minutes
Riding: 1.5 hours.

I should be done in 10 hours each day. Add in a couple hours for rest during the day and I'll only be traveling half days.

All the numbers are conservative.

The biggest question is the effects of the walking. Road miles are a lot easier than trail miles. The route is relatively flat. Plus I'd essentially be slackpacking the whole way. Resupply won't be a problem as I'll have the van to carry things until I get to a town.

I've never had a blister or knee problems. I'll be able to switch shoes each day depending on how my feet feel.

In many ways, it could be easier than the AT.

I'm sure you've thought of this - it strikes me that the most critical decision for you is shoes. I'm no foot expert but I just moved to trail runners for hiking which I like. But were I doing your walk, I'd use good quality running/walking/crosstraining shoes. I prefer Rebok although my current Sauconys work well.

Winds
04-02-2012, 17:21
That would be the total of the 3.

Walking: 8 hours a day
Driving: 30 minutes
Riding: 1.5 hours.

I should be done in 10 hours each day. Add in a couple hours for rest during the day and I'll only be traveling half days.

All the numbers are conservative.

The biggest question is the effects of the walking. Road miles are a lot easier than trail miles. The route is relatively flat. Plus I'd essentially be slackpacking the whole way. Resupply won't be a problem as I'll have the van to carry things until I get to a town.

I've never had a blister or knee problems. I'll be able to switch shoes each day depending on how my feet feel.

In many ways, it could be easier than the AT.

I went to the gym and while working out, thought almost the identical above (all of it too).

So two questions for you Gram,

1. Has anyone done specifically what you're planning?
I know people have crossed this country in almost every way imaginable, but don't know if this has been done?

2. Do you have a tentative planned year yet? 2013, 2014?

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 18:12
I went to the gym and while working out, thought almost the identical above (all of it too).

So two questions for you Gram,

1. Has anyone done specifically what you're planning?
I know people have crossed this country in almost every way imaginable, but don't know if this has been done?

2. Do you have a tentative planned year yet? 2013, 2014?

As far as I could find, nobody has hiked a route that touched all 48 states. I can't find any evidence anyone did it on a bicycle either. I spent 2 years finding the route. Originally, I started looking for a 10 day motorcycle trip. That is quite common except my route is about 1,000 miles shorter than the one most people plan.

The tentative start date would be Jan 1, 2014 unless I realistically think it can be done in 10 months. Then it would be March 1st. It would start in eastern Oklahoma and head SE from there.

If someone wants to copy the idea and do it first, it's fine with me.

I'd be 60 when I start it, but I generally feel like I'm still 18, so I don't see that as a problem. Mentally, I'm a lot stronger.

On shoes: I've found Danner desert combat boots are the best for roadwalking. It sounds strange, but they are more comfortable than anything I've ever worn. I have a mix of other boots and shoes.

Winds
04-02-2012, 18:59
Thanks for the info GC. I admire your gumption regarding.
There are so many complexities to such an endeavor, I don't think anyone's going to try and steal your thunder.
You certainly can't just walk the expressways. And I can't even imagine on how much this would cost although I am not asking you to reveal that here. Good to hear you feel young as I do wish you success!

Now you're making me look up your goofy boots, ha.

earlyriser26
04-02-2012, 19:22
You make a thru even harder. Having recently started biking to work, 30 miles a day, I can say one thing for sure. Biking is much more dangerous than hiking. I have never come close to being badly injured hiking, but riding those mountain backroads may add much more risk to your trip. HYOH, but this seems a hard way to go.

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 20:09
Thanks for the info GC. I admire your gumption regarding.
There are so many complexities to such an endeavor, I don't think anyone's going to try and steal your thunder.
You certainly can't just walk the expressways. And I can't even imagine on how much this would cost although I am not asking you to reveal that here. Good to hear you feel young as I do wish you success!

Now you're making me look up your goofy boots, ha.

Here (http://www.amazon.com/Danner-Desert-Rough-Out-Tan/dp/B00131LI06/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1333409283&sr=8-1) are the goofy Danner boots.

The cost isn't as bad as one would think. I'm planning on selling the house anyway. That costs about $1,400 a month including utilities. So I'd save $14,800 in expenses.

Most boots I buy run about $300. I figure 10 pairs for $3,000. But I'd mix in some cheaper shoes so it wouldn't be quite that high.

Gas, about $1,800.

4 to 6 bicycle tires
2 to 3 chains
1 rebuild of the bottom bracket
I'll bring a spare bicycle in case something bad breaks. I already have those.

Food, an extra $5,000 over what I spend now. That estimate is probably way high, but I'm accounting for a permanent food mood.

A motel a week. $5,000

As it turns out, I break almost exactly even.

The route was the most complex part. It has zero interstate. Some dirt roads with an option for a lot more. It only goes through 2 major cities which I'll likely find a way to bypass before then. I have the option for about 300 miles of the AT starting in West Virginia and going to Maryland. I'd just ride the bike to Maryland on an easy road route which might be a bit longer and hike back to the van on the trail.

Gear is much simpler for a roadwalk with the van for a known destination.

Logistically, I won't have to depend on anyone else for resupply. I should pass through enough towns to resupply well on the way. If I need any gear, overnight through Amazon will work fine.

I'd quit my current job, but that doesn't pay much anyway. I have a military retirement which would leave me with an extra 15,000 after expenses. One year after that, I can get social security.

My big concern is the ability to maintain the miles. But it should be easier to maintain 23 miles on the road than 15 or 16 a day on the AT. The big unknown is what will happen after months of that. If it doesn't work out, I'll slow down and take longer.

Slo-go'en
04-02-2012, 20:32
A freind of mine proposed hiking the ADT cross country. Sort of the same idea as gram craker is proposing, but without all the back and forth.

I gave it some thought and tried to picture walking across Kansas, in the middle of the summer, with no shade in 100 degree temps on black top, cars and trucks speeding by spewing exhaust fumes in my face (even on low traffic roads, there is traffic) or worse, in heavy rain. After that little thought experiment I said "no frigging way".

What little road walking I have done has convinced me if it isn't a path through the woods and over mountians, I'm not interested. Not that my opinion should influence your decision any, but is something to think about. I might consider a cross country bike trip - but probably not. I much perfer the woods.

Winds
04-02-2012, 21:06
Well it's surely different from an A.T. thru-hike.
As for Danner shoes (or the ice cream), I have no clue?
However, with the boots you have picked, at least you won't need pants ever.

Maybe these would work too?
http://www.keds.com/store/SiteController/keds/productdetails?stockNumber=MF42376&showDefaultOption=true&skuId=***5********MF42376*M100&subCatTabId=cat610215&subCatId=&productId=5-175040&catId=cat610201

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 21:23
A freind of mine proposed hiking the ADT cross country. Sort of the same idea as gram craker is proposing, but without all the back and forth.

I gave it some thought and tried to picture walking across Kansas, in the middle of the summer, with no shade in 100 degree temps on black top, cars and trucks speeding by spewing exhaust fumes in my face (even on low traffic roads, there is traffic) or worse, in heavy rain. After that little thought experiment I said "no frigging way".

What little road walking I have done has convinced me if it isn't a path through the woods and over mountians, I'm not interested. Not that my opinion should influence your decision any, but is something to think about. I might consider a cross country bike trip - but probably not. I much perfer the woods.

I looked at the ADT. My big gripe there is there would be a lot of stealth camping. I've read it is not marked well in many places. Utah and Nevada are short on water as Lion King found.

The route I have planned will be up north in the summer. And I only take one step in Kansas. (All I have to do is touch the 48 states.)

After doing almost all my backpacking in Colorado, I'm kind of spoiled on what kind of trails I like. We don't have all the restrictions they have in other places.

The big attraction is seeing the small towns and rural life before they completely disappear. In 10 years, there will hardly be a "Cafe" or "Eat" place left. I love meeting old people. Especially those in their 80's and 90's. I let them talk as long as they want. They have probably told the same stories 100's of times, but it will be the first time they tell them to me.

On Sunday, I'll probably stop in some little white painted church and hear "Amazing Grace" the way it used to be sung. I'm not Christian, but I don't care what path people find to God.

For some reason, people come up to me and talk and tell their stories. I want to hear them all. If it slows me down, that's fine. It seems like I get in a long conversation everytime I go to a small town.

I've met people from the dust bowl days in Oklahoma and Colorado. I met a guy who used to run moonshine on a Harley in Kentucky. I've met old farmers, handimen and had corned beef and cabbage at a church on St. Patrick's day. One guy carried a wooden statue of his father out of the store each morning and sat him on the bench where he used to like to sit. I've been invited to formal Sabbath dinners in Jewish homes even though I was wearing jeans and a t-shirt. They never noticed.

Once I brought lunch to a homeless couple on a corner. We sat for hours reading from the Bible. It's not my book, but I loved their faith. The man embarrassed me when he gave half his lunch to another homeless guy that wandered by. I got to talk to both personalities of a schizophrenic in Georgia. That was interesting.

I seldom remember much about bad weather. I can't imagine it will be as bad as the AT.

Miami Joe
04-02-2012, 21:44
Two things: 1. Have you thought about getting sponsored for this awesome adventure? Bike companies, shoe companies, etc.. 2. Please wear a helmet!

Lone Wolf
04-02-2012, 21:46
Two things: 1. Have you thought about getting sponsored for this awesome adventure? Bike companies, shoe companies, etc.. 2. Please wear a helmet!

3. don't hog the road. so tired of these cross country bikers comin' thru damascus with their arrogant hoggin' ways

gram cracker
04-02-2012, 22:08
Two things: 1. Have you thought about getting sponsored for this awesome adventure? Bike companies, shoe companies, etc.. 2. Please wear a helmet!

I'm pretty independent, so I may not want to mess with a sponsor.

I always wear a helmet.

I've riden a lot of miles on a bicycle. I leave cars room where it's possible. It's really only about an hour and 20 minutes a day. I won't be many places where it's real busy.

ScottP
04-02-2012, 22:52
3. don't hog the road. so tired of these cross country bikers comin' thru damascus with their arrogant hoggin' ways

Not sure if this is what's going on by you, but road hogging can be necessary to some degree where the roads are really bad. If drivers only give you a few inches of space and there's a pothole you can be in for a world of hurt.

SassyWindsor
04-02-2012, 23:28
Forget the bike. You need to get a partner, one hike nobo, the other take vehicle then hike sobo, give keys to the nobo partner midway. Then Hope they find their way back to starting point for your pickup.

waywardfool
04-02-2012, 23:54
There' a National Geographic -- I have it tucked away somewhere -- maybe from early 70's about a guy that did a long roadwalk... Maybe across the South. Kind of the same idea, to meet and experience the local cultures. You may find it interesting.

waywardfool
04-02-2012, 23:59
April 1977 NG

Walk was 1973

Here is the book

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/006095955X

Odd Man Out
04-03-2012, 00:19
...The reason I want the van is a lot of areas are getting rougher on the homeless and I figure stealth camping is getting more risky...

One observation on this premise. I know this isn't an AT hike (despite the confusing thread title), but on the AT, the conventional wisdom is that camping is safer as you get further away from road crossings and shelters. So avoiding dispersed camping in favor of sleeping in a van at a trail parking area would be possibly the least safe option for an AT excursion. What evidence is there that "stealth camping is getting more risky"? I wonder if this premise would also be flawed for a cross-country the excursion you envision. There is one big difference in that stealth (i.e. dispersed) camping is not illegal along much of the AT.

gram cracker
04-03-2012, 08:35
One observation on this premise. I know this isn't an AT hike (despite the confusing thread title), but on the AT, the conventional wisdom is that camping is safer as you get further away from road crossings and shelters. So avoiding dispersed camping in favor of sleeping in a van at a trail parking area would be possibly the least safe option for an AT excursion. What evidence is there that "stealth camping is getting more risky"? I wonder if this premise would also be flawed for a cross-country the excursion you envision. There is one big difference in that stealth (i.e. dispersed) camping is not illegal along much of the AT.

I eat a lot with homeless people. I find them very interesting. The universal story I hear from them is they are hassled by law enforcement on the roads. The first thing they are asked for is their gun. Yet few carry one. The homeless are mostly just nice people who for some reason are not able to work. Often it is some mental disorder they can't get treatment for.

Since Occupy, a lot of the city camping laws are being enforced. New ones are being passed. It is becoming increasingly difficult to find a quiet spot and sleep in it. There is a law in Colorado which says it is illegal to sleep outside. It doesn't make an exception for the wilderness or your backyard. It's not enforced...yet.

On a cross country road walk, water becomes a big issue. Filtering water isn't an option as there is a lot of chemical runoff from farms. And you don't know what kind of factory is upstream. It can be a long way between water sources. At times around 100 miles. It just seemed to be the best option to have a vehicle.

If I have a sponsor for this trip, it will be the people who give to their local homeless shelter or food bank.

Odd Man Out
04-03-2012, 09:39
I eat a lot with homeless people. I find them very interesting. The universal story I hear from them is they are hassled by law enforcement on the roads. The first thing they are asked for is their gun. Yet few carry one. The homeless are mostly just nice people who for some reason are not able to work. Often it is some mental disorder they can't get treatment for. ....If I have a sponsor for this trip, it will be the people who give to their local homeless shelter or food bank.

I am with you on the homeless issue. I went to a lecture by Mike Yankoski last week. He wrote "Under the Overpass", the book about his time he intentionally lived as a homeless person. I have not read the book, but the lecture was excellent.

http://www.undertheoverpass.com/uop/home.php

off-pher
04-03-2012, 09:56
I must say this is crazy. hike bike drive just the very idea
is nuts!!! Don't you know it will HOT WET DRY......hungery
there will be sleepless nights and seemingly never ending days
flat tires chains will break ....................... do you want any HELP?????I would love to do something like this

gram cracker
04-03-2012, 10:17
I must say this is crazy. hike bike drive just the very idea
is nuts!!! Don't you know it will HOT WET DRY......hungery
there will be sleepless nights and seemingly never ending days
flat tires chains will break ....................... do you want any HELP?????I would love to do something like this

So do something like this. Ride your bicycle 20 miles away. Drive to pick it up. Then ride home and sleep in your car in the driveway. Next day drive out to where you left the bicycle and repeat, but sleep 20 miles from home. See if you can go 3 days in a row. Reduce the distances if 20 miles is too much.

Slo-go'en
04-03-2012, 12:52
I know a woman who hiked part of the "East Coast Greenway" from the coast of Maine to nearly NYC. The Greenway is laid out primarly as a bike path and uses as much "rail to trail" type paths as possible, but there is a LOT of road walking. She did this in the early fall, so the weather wasn't too bad. The ECG does not avoid cities, but often goes right through or skirts around them.

In rural areas, she was able to camp on the side of the road with out trouble. In suburban areas, in the afternoon, she would start asking people if they knew a good place to camp. Often they would let her set up in thier yard (being an old lady probably helped in that regard). Cemeterys are also good spots to rest (short to very long term). In the more developed areas, she would often check the churchs for a place to stay or use motel rooms.

The walk did start to get really iffy as she approched NYC and starting passing though some rough nieghborhoods in SW Connecticut. Local cops would start to escort her through some areas after asking what the heck she thought she was doing there. Eventually, she had to get on a commuter train to finish the trip safely.

Cookerhiker
04-03-2012, 13:59
...The big attraction is seeing the small towns and rural life before they completely disappear. In 10 years, there will hardly be a "Cafe" or "Eat" place left....

This resonates. I make it a point to leave interstates and seek out old downtowns to find small, local, usually old restaurants & cafes. Even if the food isn't good, I enjoy the experience.

I've also wondered how long they'll last and sometimes think as you that they won't be around in 10 years. But I've concluded that's too pessimistic. Heck, I'm sure I felt that way 10 years ago.

The other thing is I often find small independent establishments which are new, likely established by an enterprising sort who feels there is a market for such eateries. Often they're coffeehouses, sometimes full-menu restaurants and you find them in unexpected places. 2 examples in the mountain areas of West Virginia: (1) in the impoverished-looking town of Thomas (near the ADT), a place called The Purple Fiddle features healthy sandwiches & salads, homemade soups, beer & wine, ice cream, and live music on weekends. (2) the small town of Marlinton near the Greenbrier Trail has a coffee house cum bike repair shop (true!) with a great menu.

Don't know if you're considering a book but your trip would make for a good one. Heck, even a book just on those independent eateries would be most welcome (to some of us).

Good luck!

gram cracker
04-03-2012, 15:43
Yes, I would write a book. I've started writing one for practice which I'll publish for myself on Kindle.

I just got back from a little walk. I think better when I walk. The title is decided:
"People are Trail Magic" It would be along the lines of "Blue Highways."

As I think, I have so many stories where people just start talking to me. I tend to be a loner and for some reason, people can't stand to see other people alone. So they talk and I listen.

As for gear. I'm the worst. I don't believe cotton kills or I'd be dead now. I still use an external frame pack. I have my SVEA123R stove I bought new in 1977. And I like heavy boots. I don't carry a knife or a compass. I prefer a paper map to a GPS. I just use the GPS to log miles. It doesn't even have a cord to load waypoints.

DaSchwartz
04-05-2012, 00:29
Couple of thoughts. People have bicycled the 48 states in one year, in fact, someone has done it in 48 days bicycling the 48 states. It can be done in little as 8,000 miles on a bicycle.... Leaving in March from Oklahoma? Nasty weather you will receive.... Security of leaving a bicycle alone all day locked up?? 20,000 miles over 10 months, it's impossible to walk that much in 10 months... then throw in the bicycling and van. You will probably need to put down some water drops for yourself, the only way to do the ADT is to have pre-placed water drops in the desert.

I'm sorry, but this plan isn't realistic...

Winds
04-05-2012, 01:26
Couple of thoughts. People have bicycled the 48 states in one year, in fact, someone has done it in 48 days bicycling the 48 states. It can be done in little as 8,000 miles on a bicycle.... Leaving in March from Oklahoma? Nasty weather you will receive.... Security of leaving a bicycle alone all day locked up?? 20,000 miles over 10 months, it's impossible to walk that much in 10 months... then throw in the bicycling and van. You will probably need to put down some water drops for yourself, the only way to do the ADT is to have pre-placed water drops in the desert.

I'm sorry, but this plan isn't realistic...

Not sure what you are on about – maybe you misunderstood Gram’s first post?

Gram said he had a route roughed out at 7,000 miles. To cover that distance in say 10 months, that's less than 24 miles a day.

His plans are such (as he stated):

Point A - Leave bike
Drive to Point B – Leave vehicle
Walk back to point A – pick up bike
Ride bike to Point B

Then repeat this process covering the 7,000 miles and 48 states.

Therefore Gram intends on driving, riding his bike, and walking 7,000 miles.
His BODY will cover 21,000 miles in the trip.
That’s entirely doable.

Wait, I see where you might have gotten confused: Gram is using a vehicle - and can LIVE from that vehicle (eat, sleep, plan, rest, write us all updates, send ME gifts, etc.). :)

gram cracker
04-05-2012, 08:21
Couple of thoughts. People have bicycled the 48 states in one year, in fact, someone has done it in 48 days bicycling the 48 states. It can be done in little as 8,000 miles on a bicycle.... Leaving in March from Oklahoma? Nasty weather you will receive.... Security of leaving a bicycle alone all day locked up?? 20,000 miles over 10 months, it's impossible to walk that much in 10 months... then throw in the bicycling and van. You will probably need to put down some water drops for yourself, the only way to do the ADT is to have pre-placed water drops in the desert.

I'm sorry, but this plan isn't realistic...

It's 7,000 miles walking, 7,000 miles bicycling and 7,000 miles in the van. That is all doable. The big question will be if my body can do it. I am working on that now. The big unknown is the mental, not the physical.

Think of it this way. Could you ride a bicycle 20 miles away from home, walk home and drive out to pick up the bicycle? If you can do that 350 times, the whole trip can be done. Keep in mind, road miles are much easier than trail miles.

The route only has to touch the 48 states. Not cross them. There will only be one step in Oklahoma. Then I'll be in Arkansas. The next big weather problem is the week long rains in Louisiana. Those usually come in mid-April. I'd be through Louisiana before they came. Then there is tornado season in the SE. But generally they don't come until late afternoon or evening. I'd be done for the day. If it looked like it would be real bad, I can get a motel.

Leaving the bicycle locked up will be no problem. The route only goes through 2 bigger cities now. I'll figure out a way to avoid those. It will be locked and hidden in some out of the way place. The chances of someone even seeing it are small. If it gets stolen, I'll have a spare. That's not one of my big concerns.

Why would I need water drops? I'd have water in the van. In the desert, I can just make the legs shorter.

It's a different kind of trip. I've decided it's NOT a thru-hike. On those planning becomes a major factor because of a lack of support and transportation to get resupplied. It's just a trip to see the country. Comparing it to a thru-hike would not recognize the greater difficulty of doing the AT.

The plan is still coming together. I did say earlier it may not happen. But it is possible and I'm working to make it happen.

Winds, gifts are a good idea.

quilteresq
04-05-2012, 10:00
The route I have planned will be up north in the summer. And I only take one step in Kansas. (All I have to do is touch the 48 states.)

.

That won't necessarily save you from heat. In 2003, my family hit more than two weeks of temps hovering around 100 degrees biking in eastern Oregon, Idaho and Montana on our cross country bike ride. Riding through the deep canyons of eastern Oregon and Idaho was murder at around 100 degrees. Once we got to Missoula, smoky air from many wildfires was added to the challenges for about a week. One person asked us if anyone had asked us to pick up a shovel (for fighting the wildfires) yet. You guessed it - I had planned the northern route to beat the heat of a more southerly route.

gram cracker
04-05-2012, 10:26
That won't necessarily save you from heat. In 2003, my family hit more than two weeks of temps hovering around 100 degrees biking in eastern Oregon, Idaho and Montana on our cross country bike ride. Riding through the deep canyons of eastern Oregon and Idaho was murder at around 100 degrees. Once we got to Missoula, smoky air from many wildfires was added to the challenges for about a week. One person asked us if anyone had asked us to pick up a shovel (for fighting the wildfires) yet. You guessed it - I had planned the northern route to beat the heat of a more southerly route.

This is true. One year I rode across Oklahoma in a week. It was over 100 degrees every day. The pavement was melting and caking on my tires. I was getting a sun burn so I had to wear a long shirt and pants. I found I really enjoy the feel of sweat running down my face on a hot day. I love how there is relief in the mornings and evenings. I love the anticipation in the morning of the heat coming once again.

It's a fact that the weather will present different things to enjoy along the way. It is the unusual weather that brings the best memories and makes for the best trips.

The alternative to doing the north in the summer is doing it in the winter and doing the hot areas in the summer. That does not seem like such a great plan. Especially in Nevada. I think by getting to northern Nevada in early October, I'll be just a little late for the wildfires. If they come, I'm stuck for a bit.

max patch
04-05-2012, 10:42
Have you figured out a route to take advantage of the 4 corners?

gram cracker
04-05-2012, 10:49
Have you figured out a route to take advantage of the 4 corners?

Yes, the hike ends at the 4 corners.

DaSchwartz
04-05-2012, 13:41
Think of it this way. Could you ride a bicycle 20 miles away from home, walk home and drive out to pick up the bicycle? If you can do that 350 times, the whole trip can be done. Keep in mind, road miles are much easier than trail miles.

Water supply is going to be a problem, finding a place to park your van and your bicycle is going to be a problem. There are a lot of places where you just can't hide a bicycle. Then you have to worry where to park the van without it getting towed (again not as easy as it sounds) You are going to walking 3.5 times the length of the Appalachian Trail in just 300 days, that's like hiking the triple crown of hiking, I don't know how many people if anyone has ever done that in one year. Seriously, why not just forgo the van stuff and just do a thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail or PCT? You'll actually be able to enjoy yourself, not be dependent on burning fossil fuels, not set to x amount of miles per day.. Or why not do it on the bicycle alone, which I have done myself, bike packing can be a great experience also. Anyhow, if you decide to do this, I wish you the best.

JAK
04-05-2012, 13:53
I like it.

Cookerhiker
04-05-2012, 14:03
This is true. One year I rode across Oklahoma in a week. It was over 100 degrees every day. The pavement was melting and caking on my tires. I was getting a sun burn so I had to wear a long shirt and pants. I found I really enjoy the feel of sweat running down my face on a hot day. I love how there is relief in the mornings and evenings. I love the anticipation in the morning of the heat coming once again.

It's a fact that the weather will present different things to enjoy along the way. It is the unusual weather that brings the best memories and makes for the best trips.

The alternative to doing the north in the summer is doing it in the winter and doing the hot areas in the summer. That does not seem like such a great plan. Especially in Nevada. I think by getting to northern Nevada in early October, I'll be just a little late for the wildfires. If they come, I'm stuck for a bit.

Last year, I drove from KY to Colorado in late July for my Colorado Trail thruhike. The entire way through Kansas featured temps >100. Hike over, drove home in early September - 100+ through all of Kansas, Missouri, Southern Illinois


Water supply is going to be a problem, finding a place to park your van and your bicycle is going to be a problem. There are a lot of places where you just can't hide a bicycle. Then you have to worry where to park the van without it getting towed (again not as easy as it sounds) You are going to walking 3.5 times the length of the Appalachian Trail in just 300 days, that's like hiking the triple crown of hiking, I don't know how many people if anyone has ever done that in one year. Seriously, why not just forgo the van stuff and just do a thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail or PCT? You'll actually be able to enjoy yourself, not be dependent on burning fossil fuels, not set to x amount of miles per day.. Or why not do it on the bicycle alone, which I have done myself, bike packing can be a great experience also. Anyhow, if you decide to do this, I wish you the best.

I think he gave his reason - he wants to walk through communities and meet & talk with the locals. You can't compare his mileage with the Triple Crown because he's slackpacking every day. Re water, he can carry his day's supply. The main water problem is if he's camped far e.g. 50 miles from a town but as long as he studies his map and brings plenty of jugs to fill up, he can plan accordingly.

max patch
04-05-2012, 14:13
Water supply is going to be a problem, finding a place to park your van and your bicycle is going to be a problem. There are a lot of places where you just can't hide a bicycle. Then you have to worry where to park the van without it getting towed (again not as easy as it sounds) You are going to walking 3.5 times the length of the Appalachian Trail in just 300 days, that's like hiking the triple crown of hiking, I don't know how many people if anyone has ever done that in one year. Seriously, why not just forgo the van stuff and just do a thru-hike on the Appalachian Trail or PCT? You'll actually be able to enjoy yourself, not be dependent on burning fossil fuels, not set to x amount of miles per day.. Or why not do it on the bicycle alone, which I have done myself, bike packing can be a great experience also. Anyhow, if you decide to do this, I wish you the best.

I don't think water will be a problem; the OP is driving the van to that days end point (good idea) which will let him know the availablity of food and water en route - he can carry what he needs accordingly.

And by mentioning this I am in no way minimizing the difficulty of what he is doing; but is 20 miles a day on a flat road carrying a daypack more difficult than 16 miles a day on the A.T. carrying a full pack?

I would have no interest in this as I hate road walks - particularly in the summer - but its a neat idea and I look forward to hearing progress reports.

Winds
04-05-2012, 14:35
And by mentioning this I am in no way minimizing the difficulty of what he is doing; but is 20 miles a day on a flat road carrying a daypack more difficult than 16 miles a day on the A.T. carrying a full pack?

Gram is not comparing his project to an A.T. thru-hike. And he's mentioned he doesn't think it will be as difficult. I'm not sure as this is apples to oranges in many respects.

The logistics of planning this endeavor is HUGE though.
Then he would actually have to do this for 300+ days... whoosh!

Gram's great attitude is a fantastic start!
Since I expect many gifts now from his trip, I'll have to figure out a care package now???
I live north of Detroit, maybe I'll just mail a square foot of salt. :)

Slo-go'en
04-06-2012, 13:26
It occured to me last night that there might be a serious problem this plan.

You can't just park the van anywhere on the side of the road and leave it there all day, or all night for that matter. You will have to find a place to pull off the road to park. You will aslo need to know where the next place you can do this up the road is and hope it's about a days walk away. In some area's this might not be too hard to arrange, but in others, it maybe very difficult.

Then there is the problem of finding places to sleep overnight. Vehicles parked where they usually aren't overnight tend to get a visit from the local police to see if something is a miss. You'll likely end up having to stay at campgrounds or Wal-mart parking lots and commute from there everyday.

Winds
04-06-2012, 13:44
Might prove to be an excellent way to meet more people too.

You could use people's property / driveways, in front of their homes, etc. with permission.

gram cracker
04-06-2012, 17:03
It occured to me last night that there might be a serious problem this plan.

You can't just park the van anywhere on the side of the road and leave it there all day, or all night for that matter. You will have to find a place to pull off the road to park. You will aslo need to know where the next place you can do this up the road is and hope it's about a days walk away. In some area's this might not be too hard to arrange, but in others, it maybe very difficult.

Then there is the problem of finding places to sleep overnight. Vehicles parked where they usually aren't overnight tend to get a visit from the local police to see if something is a miss. You'll likely end up having to stay at campgrounds or Wal-mart parking lots and commute from there everyday.

Thanks for thinking of possible problems. There are surely things I've missed. I'll do some shorter trips before to find them, but I can use all the help I can get.

I have decided it is better to ride the bike ahead first. That way if something breaks I'm not in for a long walk. I've done a good bit of road walking where I drive somewhere and walk out and back from the car. I have never had a problem. It is not illegal to park off the road surface. Most that might happen is I would get one of those orange tags.

Homeless laws do not prohibit sleeping in a vehicle. Just in a tent. The only place it is usually illegal to spend a night is in a rest area. I would avoid parking in front of a house where the people might get concerned.

In small towns, just call the police and ask where you can park for the night. They will usually have some place they will let you park.

If I do get a visit from the police, I'll hand them a pamphlet that explains what I am doing. It will also state I am raising fund for the Policeman's Ball. They should leave me alone.

In my opinion the concerns are legitimate. I feel they fall in the same category as bear precautions. Take the precautions I can and then get a good night's sleep.

The place I am more likely to get hassled is just walking. A lot of that has to do with appearance. The homeless have a particular look about them. I'll be wearing different clothes that will make it obvious I am not homeless. It's possible an LEO will run my ID. But it is not illegal to walk alongside the road facing traffic.

max patch
04-06-2012, 17:40
I have decided it is better to ride the bike ahead first.

I would disagree with you on this. I'd drive the van ahead because as you drive you will see what resupply options (fast food restaurants, convenience stores) are available. This would allow you to adjust the amount of food and water you will carry hiking.

Winds
04-06-2012, 19:22
His primary resupply is his vehicle (which would need restocking every week (or three? - depending on his setup).
He would only need enough water/food for 40-50 bike/walk miles. Because he's vehicle-supported, he won't have to carry much weight.
The logistics of this sort of trip is vastly different than any thru-hike.

gram cracker
04-06-2012, 19:55
I would disagree with you on this. I'd drive the van ahead because as you drive you will see what resupply options (fast food restaurants, convenience stores) are available. This would allow you to adjust the amount of food and water you will carry hiking.

This was my original plan. But then I thought about what would happen if something bad happened with the bike 20 miles away from the van. I'd have to hike a 40 mile day.

Winds is right. This is much different than a thru hike.

waywardfool
04-06-2012, 21:48
It will also state I am raising fund for the Policeman's Ball. They should leave me alone.

This won't work in North Carolina. Everybody knows that North Carolina Highway Patrol Troopers do not have balls.


:D ...somebody had to do it!

gram cracker
04-06-2012, 21:51
This won't work in North Carolina. Everybody knows that North Carolina Highway Patrol Troopers do not have balls.


:D ...somebody had to do it!

I was wondering when someone would catch that.

max patch
04-07-2012, 10:06
This was my original plan. But then I thought about what would happen if something bad happened with the bike 20 miles away from the van. I'd have to hike a 40 mile day.



Good point; hadn't thot of that.

coach lou
04-07-2012, 10:31
I'm planning a very long hike/bicycle ride on roads. I don't know if I'll ever get the chance to do it as it would take a year. But I thought I'd ask the question.

My plan is to bring a small van to sleep in and a bicycle. In the morning, I'd leave the bicycle and drive the van 20 miles ahead. Then walk to the bicycle and ride it to the van.

The way it works out, at the end, I will have ridden the bicycle forward on the route and walked each leg backwards.

The reason I want the van is a lot of areas are getting rougher on the homeless and I figure stealth camping is getting more risky. The other reason is in many areas, getting water may be a big problem.

The route is about 7,000 miles long.

Thru here...thru there...I don't know, but it sounds like alot of fun. I was actually tossing around the Idea of the same thing in The SNP, I have a Class B, so It will be a fun. Dump the bike, hike to it , ride back to camp. Maybe squeeze in a nite in Skyland.

gram cracker
04-07-2012, 10:45
Thru here...thru there...I don't know, but it sounds like alot of fun. I was actually tossing around the Idea of the same thing in The SNP, I have a Class B, so It will be a fun. Dump the bike, hike to it , ride back to camp. Maybe squeeze in a nite in Skyland.

What is the SNP? And what is a Class B? Where is Skyland. (I didn't think of putting an airplane in the mix.)

max patch
04-07-2012, 11:29
Since Coach is offline; SNP is the Sheandoah Nat'l Park, Skyline is a resort in the park, and a Class B is (hope this isn't oversimplyfying) a RV that is a conversion van.

coach lou
04-07-2012, 11:38
Since Coach is offline; SNP is the Sheandoah Nat'l Park, Skyline is a resort in the park, and a Class B is (hope this isn't oversimplyfying) a RV that is a conversion van.

Thanks MAX, my Van is a simple unit. & I can never remember how to spell S-N-P!

gram cracker
04-08-2012, 22:44
There are some differences in gear for a road walk.

Sunglasses are important. They should not be the kind that are lighter on the bottom. It is possible to get a mild case of "snow blindness" on the roads.

Boots work better for me than shoes. Especially on hot or wet days. My favorites are a Danner combat boots. The ones I walk the fastest in are Red Wing 964's. The weight penalty does not seem to be as much as on trails. Yesterday I walked 15 miles in the Red Wings and they were very comfortable. I've also taken the combat boots on similar walks. They are also very comfortable.

It is more important to get the rebound effect a good boot gives. I also have a pair of Danner Mountain Lights I like. I rotate boots each day. I have taken shoes out of the rotation.

If you cover the soles with Gorilla tape, it fuses to the sole as if it is painted on rubber. About every 10 miles a very small patch over worn spots can make the soles last a very long time. For some reason Duck tape works almost as well for the soles, but does not work well for the heels.

Wool socks make boots and shoes a lot more comfortable. Different socks work best with different shoes. Experiment a bit. Cotton causes an abrasion on the bottom of my heels.

Synthetic shirts smell badly very quickly. Cotton is the coolest in the heat and warm enough in the cold. It is easy to overdress. A good waterproof and windproof outer layer is essential in the cold and/or rain. I use an REI jacket similar to the Marmot Precip.

A loose long sleeve light cotton shirt is the coolest in the summer.

Don't carry a school bag or you will be identified as homeless. I think they issue those to homeless people someplace. I carry an Osprey Talon 33 because it was given to me. For some reason a day pack seems to open conversations with people. A small pack is essential if going long enough where the layers will be changed.

Rechargeable batteries are great.

Trekking poles are useless.

A camera with AA batteries works best for me. I keep it handy as a lot of pictures only last a short time. Like the geese I saw walking across a busy street on the crosswalk the other day. Unfortunately, the batteries in the camera chose that moment to die.

Carry a few bucks to give to homeless people before they ask. Also a pack of cigarettes. They will really appreciate one. I'm more concerned about cops than I am about the homeless.

Lexol leather conditioner is great. Find it in the tack section of the store or order online. It is easiest to apply with a 1 1/2 inch paint brush. A very small amount will cover the whole boot.

Kiwi polish lasts the longest. I polish and condition my boots after each use.

gram cracker
04-05-2015, 10:41
This hike may never happen as I'd have to take a year off. I hiked over 3,000 miles last year getting in shape for road walking.

The basic plan has changed. Now I'd use a push cart and only walk. The longest stretches between water are 78 miles. These are along HWY 50 in Nevada and it would still be cool. People have hiked these two stretches in two days while hiking cross-country.

I decided to start and stop in Pueblo, Colorado as that is where I live. The best time to start is mid-March, depending on the weather, and go clockwise. The route is 8,136 miles which is a 21 mile/day average. I watched the weather each day this past year, and it was mild most of the way around. The only challenge would be at the start because of the possibility of snow. If the forecast looks bad, just start later.

I looked at the entire route on Google Street View and it looks safe enough all the way around.

If anyone is seriously interested in this hike, email me at [email protected] and I can send a GPS file or a Streets and Trips File.

Busky2
04-05-2015, 11:31
A pushcart? Why don't you look at a Dixon Roller Pack DIXON (http://dixonrollerpack.com/) it may be a lot easier than pushing anything. And as luck would have it if you think it will work for you, I just happen to know of one that could be available at a good price. BTW this trip sounds awesome!

gram cracker
04-05-2015, 12:30
A pushcart? Why don't you look at a Dixon Roller Pack DIXON (http://dixonrollerpack.com/) it may be a lot easier than pushing anything. And as luck would have it if you think it will work for you, I just happen to know of one that could be available at a good price. BTW this trip sounds awesome!

I've been using a pushcart. It is easy to push and I actually walk a bit faster while pushing it. The constraint is those two 78 mile days. Most people do it in two days. I haven't tested it, but I'd probably have to carry about 8 gallons of water which is 64 pounds. Add another 20 pounds of gear and it's too much for a pack. There are many legs where it's 50 miles or so between water sources. I know it's doable as Mr. Lee hiked these parts last summer during his walk across America.

I've worked through all the reasons why it can't be done and found solutions for those. This summer, I'll be taking some practice trips in Colorado to see if the reality is harsher than the planning. Surprisingly, the heat hasn't been a problem. I've hiked many days when it was over 100 degrees. My body acclimated so I didn't notice it. My water consumption dropped dramatically as I acclimated. If the walk is less than 15 miles, I don't carry any water and I still piss clear at the end of the walk. The key is taking a couple minute break in shade, if I can find it, every couple of miles.

Just to be clear, the chances of me attempting this trip are small as some things in my life will have to work out. I'll start getting social security in June and I have a military pension, so money isn't the problem anymore.

gram cracker
04-05-2015, 12:49
I meant two 78 mile stretches without water. Most people do those in two days.