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View Full Version : Any tips on reducing weight of a pack, in particular the ULA Circuit



English Stu
04-11-2012, 12:58
I really like this pack and and wonder if anyone has done any modifications to gain a few ounces,or any ideas from lightening other packs. I know about changing the the compression straps to cord and cordlocks and the top closure to a lighter cord. I previously used a Go-lite Breeze to which I added a hip belt, it was considerably lighter than the Circuit but not a better bag overall. I carry about 13lb without consumables and have used the Circuit on the AT and with a bear barrel on the JMT.

skinewmexico
04-11-2012, 15:48
Have you trimmed the straps? Might be easier to trim something from the 13# rather than trying to trim the pack.

leaftye
04-11-2012, 16:06
Take out the frame.

MuddyWaters
04-11-2012, 20:22
The water bottle holsters weigh 0.8 oz
The compression shock cord weighs 0.65 oz
The foam backpanel (2 layers) weighs 1.9 oz in a medium
The aluminum stay weighs about 4 oz
The carbon fiber stay weighs about 1.6 oz
The hipbelt foam weighs about .3 oz
Can likely trip at least 0.5oz off of straps
The hipbelt weighs about 8 oz. Replace it with a simple webbing belt with buckle for 2 oz
Cut the velcro pole loops and bottom loops off for about 1oz

How low do you want to go? You can turn it into a 19oz frameless bag.
But if thats what you wanted, that ought to be what you have.

sruby00
04-12-2012, 04:09
also agree with you take the farm out

waasj
04-12-2012, 07:59
If you are going to take out the farm, then you may as well throw out the kitchen sink, too:)

Seriosly though, why not just get a day pack without a frame, with narrow straps and skinny cords and just go with that? I have seen some pretty decent day and a half bags that will carry 13# plus that would probably fit the bill.

English Stu
04-12-2012, 08:27
Thanks for the info- lots to have a think about. I seem to precious about toiletries and first aid kit and could get weight from them as well.

Buffalo Skipper
04-12-2012, 10:36
I have 2 Circuits (passed one to my son, I liked it so much when I ordered a second custom). I bought it because it was the lightest internal frame pack with a full padded hip belt that I could find with adequate size and comfort. I did remove the thumb straps and water bottle holsters. I have considered removing the velcro pole straps and trimming the straps, but have not yet (it is hard to go back after that).

Currently mine weighs in at 34.2 oz. The most I could expect to save would be probably less than 2 oz. For now I really like mine the way it is, It is exactly the pack I have wanted for years!

English Stu
04-12-2012, 13:03
It is a magic pack, I think mine is around 32 oz and is the older type, wonder why they Mark 2 is a bit heavier.

stranger
04-12-2012, 18:12
I have a 2009 Circuit...

First off, you can get rid of the stay, that will save 2 ounces. I'm a big fan of rigid suspension systems but to be honest the pack is fine without the internal stay. Unless you are up around 30lbs, I would get rid of it...plus ULA has one of the worst pre-bends I've ever seen, another reason to toss the stay (or get it custom bent for you)

As others have said...trim the straps... the top compression straps is very, very long, trim 6-8 inches off that, the same goes for the hibpelt stabilizer straps, can get 3-4 inches off those, you can also get rid of the ice-axe holders and toss the bungy cord on the back.

I had a custom belt made without hipbelt pockets which I love...that probably saved me another 2-3 ounces as it's a size small without pockets, as opposed to a size medium with pockets. I suspect my Circuit sits somewhere around 34 ounces

MuddyWaters
04-13-2012, 20:27
The Al stay is supposed to be bent to YOUR back, by you. Everyones back is different.
The carbon fiber stay is necessary if you want load lifters to have something to pull against if the pack isnt full and tight into the extension collar.

I tried my circuit in all kinds of configurations, from 28 oz to 34 oz. No backpanel, no al stay, no carbon stay ,etc.

My opinion is that the stays are worth the weight. Because it conforms to your back better, it rides better, has less tendency to slide down, and is way more comfortable. It maintains that shape regardless of how its packed,

I have an Ohm and a Circuit. I use my Ohm below 20, maybe up to 22 or so for a day. It must be packed LOOSE to conform to back and be comfortable. I use my circuit above that, with the stays, its worth it.

Some people like to say their frameless packs are comfortable to 25, 30 lbs. Nonsense. They might be useable to that, but they are not as comfortable as a light framed pack is. Just like a light framed pack is not as comfortable at 45 as a regular heavy pack.

stranger
04-14-2012, 04:08
The Al stay is supposed to be bent to YOUR back, by you. Everyones back is different.
The carbon fiber stay is necessary if you want load lifters to have something to pull against if the pack isnt full and tight into the extension collar.

I tried my circuit in all kinds of configurations, from 28 oz to 34 oz. No backpanel, no al stay, no carbon stay ,etc.

My opinion is that the stays are worth the weight. Because it conforms to your back better, it rides better, has less tendency to slide down, and is way more comfortable. It maintains that shape regardless of how its packed...

Yeah thanks :)

I've personally custom bent thousands of stays to people's backs over many, many years...I'm across that end of things. Regardless of whether or not the pack is 'supposed' to be bent to your back, the pre-bend is terrible. Why not have a great pre-bend (Gregory anyone?) AND for those who the pack does not fit, the slim minority, they can get the pack fitted.

All backs are not different...that's an assumption and perhaps your opinion. About 15% of backs are different or problematic, the remaining 85% and near identical in terms of shape. A great pre-bend eliminates the need to bend the stay for the overwhelming majority of people. This is based on thousands of fits. It's an oversight by ULA, plain and simple. Besides, very, very few pack shops custom bend stays anymore, even then, ULA's are rarely sold in shops. A good pre-bend makes sense.

I agree the stay gives the pack more integrity, however the OP was not asking if the stay's were 'worth the weight', they were asking how to bring down the pack weight = remove the stay.

MuddyWaters
04-14-2012, 15:35
Yeah thanks :)

I've personally custom bent thousands of stays to people's backs over many, many years...I'm across that end of things. Regardless of whether or not the pack is 'supposed' to be bent to your back, the pre-bend is terrible. Why not have a great pre-bend (Gregory anyone?) AND for those who the pack does not fit, the slim minority, they can get the pack fitted.

All backs are not different...that's an assumption and perhaps your opinion. About 15% of backs are different or problematic, the remaining 85% and near identical in terms of shape. A great pre-bend eliminates the need to bend the stay for the overwhelming majority of people. This is based on thousands of fits. It's an oversight by ULA, plain and simple. Besides, very, very few pack shops custom bend stays anymore, even then, ULA's are rarely sold in shops. A good pre-bend makes sense.

I agree the stay gives the pack more integrity, however the OP was not asking if the stay's were 'worth the weight', they were asking how to bring down the pack weight = remove the stay.

I suppose we will agree to disagree on this. When a pack is intended to fit a 3-4" torso length range, even if backs were shaped identical with the same curvature, there is no way one bend can fit the majority of users.

It takes about 5 min to bend it slightly to conform to your back better, or have someone else help. It certainly doesnt take an outfitter or some salesperson to "fit" the pack. I find the lightweight packs like the circuit (esp with the thick al stay in the middle of the back behind a thin foam slab) are different beasts from conventional packs with stays that stand off the back a ways behind thick foam padding and hipbelt. At least in my experience, they need to follow the contour closely in the small of the back for best results, but not so close at the upper shoulder curve that you cant arch your back without issue. The best benefit is that the pack shape tends to "fit" the back well regardless of how its packed, or how tightly its packed.

English Stu
04-14-2012, 17:06
Not given any thought to this how is it done.

MuddyWaters
04-14-2012, 18:18
Not given any thought to this how is it done.

1. remove Al stay from center slot
2. Have someone hold it up to your back, look at profile from the side. You can do this yourself, but someone else can do it quicker . just bend with your hands, maybe bend it a little at a time over your knee or such.
3. Bend it slightly until it nests well into the curve of your back, follows back up, and starts to curve over at shoulders.
4. Dont bend forward too much at shoulders, or it will dig into your back when you straighten up and arch your back to stretch. Just enough to keep the pack close to you.
5. Try it out, repeat and adjust until comfortable.

Despite the adjustable hipbelt on the circuit, which allows to move it up and down some, dont move it up, the bottom of the center stay will dig into your butt and be uncomfortable. Its an almost useless feature. Keep the hipbelt at the very bottom of the pack and it will be most comfortable.

stranger
04-15-2012, 03:28
I suppose we will agree to disagree on this. When a pack is intended to fit a 3-4" torso length range, even if backs were shaped identical with the same curvature, there is no way one bend can fit the majority of users.

It takes about 5 min to bend it slightly to conform to your back better, or have someone else help. It certainly doesnt take an outfitter or some salesperson to "fit" the pack. I find the lightweight packs like the circuit (esp with the thick al stay in the middle of the back behind a thin foam slab) are different beasts from conventional packs with stays that stand off the back a ways behind thick foam padding and hipbelt. At least in my experience, they need to follow the contour closely in the small of the back for best results, but not so close at the upper shoulder curve that you cant arch your back without issue. The best benefit is that the pack shape tends to "fit" the back well regardless of how its packed, or how tightly its packed.

First off, no pack 'fits' a torso that differs in 3-4 inches...most experienced pack fitters understand the largest range generally accepted is around 2 inches between frame sizes. Because ULA only makes two sizes, they simply promote the torso range, so instead of saying a medium fits 16-18 and large is 18-20...then simply say the pack covers a longer range than it truly does. In short, if two people are wearing the same size pack, yet have a torso length difference of 3 inches, one person is in the wrong pack.

Furthermore, in order for any pack to fit a wider range of torso length, the shoulder harness needs to be adjustable vertically, something ULA does not do. With a fixed harness, like ULA, really, the torso length is restricted to about 1-1.5 inches for a rock solid fit, if you want to get picky.

I wear a ULA medium, with a torso lengh of 17.75 inches, and I'm right in the wheelhouse of the medium, this would tell me that anyone outside of 16-20 inches would not get a good fit in a ULA. But is ULA going to say "you are 15 inches, we can't fit you"...I don't think so, it's far easier to say your pack will work as it's 'adjustable'. I do like how they offer 5 hipbelts and will change out shoulder straps (at the customers cost I might add) if someone wants to switch to a different size or shape.

On bending the stay...I don't disagree with you, however I would argue that bending a stay is more complex than it sounds. Saying that, it is something that is very easy once you KNOW how to do it - most people wouldn't have a clue. Again, ULA has a terrible pre-bend, which is my original point.

I agree with your point about having a single density, thin foam backpanel simplifies things, the big lumbar pads with 2-3 different foam densities is when things tend to get tricky with bending.

stranger
04-15-2012, 03:31
Whoops... I agree with you on the hipbelt, moving a hipbelt up to shorten the frame size doesn't work well, plus it throws out the alignment of the hipbelt stabilizers as well, the pack is more prone to sagging, etc.

hunter121
04-15-2012, 03:53
Very very cool, and thanks for the lesson! I love your unique ink!
http://www.primeaffiliate.com/track/images/20.creation.jpg
http://www.canadablackberry.com/imgs/images/2.tod.gif

MuddyWaters
04-15-2012, 09:21
My point is only that in the circuit with a hard stay right down the center of the back, behind only ~1/4" of padding, its important to have it fit the back very well or you will feel it, and I dont see anyway to do that except to bend it to fit your back yourself. Other UL packs with wider hoop-type stays like the starlite and the mariposa plus are not as critical because that stay doesnt run right down your hard spine, its several inches to each side where the body is softer . They do not need to fit as closely IMO.

The torso size on the med circuit runs notoriously small, smaller than stated. There is no way a 21" torso fits that pack properly, it barely fits a 19 properly. However it claims 18-21" range. The deal is it can be used , but you will never be able to keep the weight off the shoulders at longer lengths, and you will have to use the load lifters to pull the pack in. People just have to try on and decide what is right for them. Andrew Skurka prefers a torso length too short to one that is too long. Hes pretty much alone in that opinion.

Some knowledge there is needed, UL packs are different beasts from conventional. On a UL pack the the straps should NOT wrap over the shoulder if the torso fits, that prevents the shoulder straps alone from keeping the pack close to the back, then load lifters have to be added to try to do it. This is why Glen Van Peski refuses to put load lifters on a Gossamer Gear pack. Of course, a large percentage of people using Ul packs out there are using them wrong anyway. At least from what Ive observed. They are a really a specialized tool and take some knowledge to setup, pack, and use properly. If people dont have that knowledge yet, they really dont belong in one, theyd likely be more comfortable in a conventional pack. The circuit is pretty easy to use due to the stays, , and thats why I say its not really worth removing, unless you are carrying ~20 lbs and know how to pack carefully to be comfortable.


ULA does make adjustable shoulder harness for the small size circuit. Its considered a stock item, not a special order, but its not listed. Sold most often so that teenage kids can grow with it. Thats what my 13yo son uses. The straps are attached to a dense foam sheet that velcros in place and can be moved up or down by about 5". It is not listed on the website but you have to call and ask Chris. They do tons of things that youd never know if you dont call and ask.

stranger
04-15-2012, 10:05
I think we are in agreement on most things MuddyWaters, it's clear you have a strong understanding of packs.

I would say however that the ULA Circuit would probably fall into the more 'traditional' field of internal frame packs don't you think? In regards to the wrap on the shoulder harness. I think alot of people would prefer a slightly shorter torso length to a slightly longer if they took the time to try the packs on weighted, the main problem with going bigger is the inability to get the hipbelt high enough on the hips using the shoulder straps to bring it up...and with less shoulder harness wrap than 'traditional' packs, this is exaggerated even more. My medium doesn't wrap too much, but enough to get the belt to the right height.

ULA made me a custom hipbelt, at no cost, so I know they go out of their way for people. I did not know about the adjustable shoulder harness so thanks for pointing that out.

Always good to talk packs...cheers.

Rif
04-15-2012, 19:54
Anyone here remove the thumb straps and no longer want theirs? I have some circulation issues and find having my hand elevated helps a lot. Love to find a set of these to modify to my current pack.

English Stu
04-19-2012, 09:54
Stranger can you explain, or send a photo, of your belt. Or should I just guess Err it is a belt.

ULA say they don't do custom belts with pockets. I can get their recent belt here in the UK but it saves only an ounce so not worth it.