View Full Version : Harpers Ferry Entrance Fees
Mrs Baggins
04-11-2012, 16:35
I'm organizing a group hike from Keys Gap to Harpers Ferry later this month. The plan of course was to leave some cars at the Visitors Center and shuttle people up to Keys Gap in a couple of vans/large SUVs. I had advised everyone that if they get to the gate at the Visitors Center early enough (used to be before 9 am) the ranger booth is closed and they can park for free, but if they arrive when a ranger is there, then the per car fee is $6. Well, I just found out that the fee has jumped to $10/car AND they are now charging $5/person to walk in or ride a bike in. Just to come into the lot and then get on the shuttle buses into town? I haven't been there in several months - are they going to set up toll booths now at the town entrances and on the footbridge at the C&O Canal? Are they going to start demanding everyone carry a ticket as proof they can be in town and to get back on the shuttle buses?
Has anyone run into this yet? I'm wondering how exactly this can be enforced. There are trail head lots along the canal that are free. Seems to me they are just going to encourage cars to park where they shouldn't be parking so that people can park and walk into town for free. Not to mention what this could do to the small businesses in town.
I love going there but I will absolutely think twice before setting up anymore hikes that end in town (where we always patronized the cafes and shops) if we are now going to have pay just to be in town.
as of mid march it was still $6. they had a sign saying you needed your ticket to board the shuttle bus (which was a problem, since i was also instructed to leave it on my dashboard as i was parking overnight). i dont recall ever seeing those signs before, so that might be new. the shuttle bus driver didnt ask to see mine or anyone else's ticket though.
they can do whatever they want with the parking lot and visitor's center and perhaps some of the other blatantly government buildings in town, but the idea of charging people money to visit it the town is preposterous to the point of not possibly being true. typical overreaction you get these days, someone heres you need to show a receipt to get on the shuttle bus and all of a sudden it gets run with and out there somewhere are people who think you need to walk around with your receipt from the visitor's center to in order to be allowed in town.
frankly besides overnighting i wouldnt ever go anywhere near that visitor's center lot anyway. the first time i visited HF as essentially a tourist i quickly realized the lot and shuttle bus was a clever way to collect money for something its impossible to charge admission to and that it is easily circumvented.
Mrs Baggins
04-11-2012, 18:27
@tdoczi: Even in town there are parking fees because it is all metered and not for more than 2 hours. You could park in the train station lot on weekdays if you could even find a space but I think there was an attendant there on the weekends to collect a fee. We parked in the VC lot for an overnighter and we weren't charged a dime. We registered the vehicle with a ranger so they'd know not to tow it but that was it. That was 2003. There is an "honor" lot near town (just across and a little down from the Hwy 340 bridge) where you are supposed to fill in a ticket, drop the envelope in the box, and put the stub in the car to show you paid. The next time I take out of town guests there, we'll park at the Maryland Heights trail head lot and walk into town. We'll have to get there early but that's fine. What's next? Close those trail head lots? I had no problem with the $6/car fee. But now it's getting ludicrous. I love love love SNP but if they suddenly jumped to $30/day we'd never go back.
The parking fee at Harpers Ferry National Historical Park went from $6 to $10 on April 1, 2012. This fee is the only way that the park collects money. This park has full and part time rangers, they operate a bus that ferries people to and from the Lower Town, and there is obvious upkeep of the properties. I don't think we should begrudge them collecting enough money to cover their operating costs. See http://www.nps.gov/hafe/planyourvisit/feesandreservations.htm for their description of their fees.
Mrs Baggins
04-11-2012, 21:05
I don't begrudge them. But $10/car and then $5/person to walk in...where's the incentive to go carless? Oh..it's not there. Where's the incentive to park in the lot and take the shuttles into town..gone, that's where it is. The arrogance to believe that people want to see the town so badly they'll pay anything...that's what gets me. What I'm questioning is this: My group parks 4 cars at the VC and 2 of us wait outside the gates to shuttle hikers up to Keys Gap because it's simply stupid to pay, enter the lot, spend 5 minutes picking people up, and then drive out. Later in the day we hike into town and have to take the shuttle buses back up to the VC parking lot because now 2 or 3 of us need to get rides back to our vehicles at Keys Gap. Are the buses going to demand proof of payment before we can board in town to go back? After all, we didn't enter the VC parking lot that morning. Are they going to demand we pay $10/ea for a one-way shuttle ride? It's a town with cafes, hostels, an outfitter, b&bs, shops, homes, the ATC HQ - not a museum...so now every patron must pay an entry fee? Nonsense. It's not Disney World. We can always work it out that the morning shuttle people just wait in town, the rest of the group goes back to the lot, and the two or three that are going to take the morning shuttle drivers back to their cars drive back into town to pick them up. Or does the park service plan to charge for that too? All in all, unless they can block off all possible entry points and charge every single person in town an entry fee, this is not going to work.
if i park on the street 1 mile up the hill from the ATC headquarters and walk down into town to go to dinner and do some shopping, who is going to charge me a fee and on what basis? no one, thats who. the stores and businesses are not part of any sort of national park, and neither are most of the residences i'd imagine. its a town that contains a few areas of historical note and that has a parking problem.
i see no mention of this $5 fee anywhere on the NPS website. if its like other national parks it is an either or thing (ie if you drive in you pay the car fee, if you walk in you pay the per person fee) i doubt they are attempting to charge both... this is the overaction i am speaking of. and again, if you are in the town of harpers ferry, not using the NPS lot and not visiting any historical structures managed by the NPS it is the height of lunacy to even consider that they would seek to charge you a $5 per person fee. i have little doubt in how low our government is capable of stooping, but even i wouldnt imagine them trying to pull that. the most they could do is station someone to check receipts at every NPS owned or ran structure.
I don't begrudge them. But $10/car and then $5/person to walk in...where's the incentive to go carless? Oh..it's not there. Where's the incentive to park in the lot and take the shuttles into town..gone, that's where it is. The arrogance to believe that people want to see the town so badly they'll pay anything...that's what gets me. What I'm questioning is this: My group parks 4 cars at the VC and 2 of us wait outside the gates to shuttle hikers up to Keys Gap because it's simply stupid to pay, enter the lot, spend 5 minutes picking people up, and then drive out. Later in the day we hike into town and have to take the shuttle buses back up to the VC parking lot because now 2 or 3 of us need to get rides back to our vehicles at Keys Gap. Are the buses going to demand proof of payment before we can board in town to go back? After all, we didn't enter the VC parking lot that morning. Are they going to demand we pay $10/ea for a one-way shuttle ride? It's a town with cafes, hostels, an outfitter, b&bs, shops, homes, the ATC HQ - not a museum...so now every patron must pay an entry fee? Nonsense. It's not Disney World. We can always work it out that the morning shuttle people just wait in town, the rest of the group goes back to the lot, and the two or three that are going to take the morning shuttle drivers back to their cars drive back into town to pick them up. Or does the park service plan to charge for that too? All in all, unless they can block off all possible entry points and charge every single person in town an entry fee, this is not going to work.
why do you think your hikers are entitled to free rides back to the VC lot on the shuttle bus if they havent paid? and anyway., if at leats 1 car paid the entrance fee to park there, you would have the requesite proof of payment.
Mrs Baggins
04-12-2012, 07:12
From the Harpers Ferry NP website:
Individual Pass - $5.00 per person arriving on foot or bicycle
From the Harpers Ferry NP website:
Individual Pass - $5.00 per person arriving on foot or bicycle
yes, and if i arrive at foot at say the big old fancy church or at a program the NPS is giving on the history of the area, why should i be allowed to attend for free? you seem to be concluding one or both of two things that i think couldnt posisbly be true- 1) that if i show up in town to have dinner and go shopping and dont park in the NPS lot, that someone is going to stop me and demand a $5 entrance fee and 2) that even if i park in the NPS lot and pay $10 to ride the shuttle, that once i get to town someone is again going to stop me and demand $5.
its perfectly fair for them to charge to park, and its perfectly fair for them to charge walk ups who havent paid to park in their lot admission to buildings and programs they run. drawing a conclusion that they are doing more than this is overreacting. if they are doing more than this then i agree with you.
Odd Man Out
04-12-2012, 08:23
... the first time i visited HF as essentially a tourist i quickly realized the lot and shuttle bus was a clever way to collect money for something its impossible to charge admission to and that it is easily circumvented.
Hmmm - The first time i visited HF after opening the visitor's center/parking/shuttle complex, I quickly realized that it was a clever way to allow a large number of people to have access an historic town without having to ruin it by building a big parking lot right in the middle of it. That's the NPS mission - to provide access and preserve - a delicate balance as you can't really have both 100%. It seems we all have different perspectives.
i can see how that could also be true. never the less, besides overnight hiking, on any other trip to HF ive since taken ive skipped the lot and the shuttle bus. if for no other reason than the shuttle stops running and making sure you make the last bus and out of the lot before they lock it is a pain. on that first trip my friend and i ended up taking a shuttle back to the lot just to get my car and move it into town so we could continue on with our day. we skipped it altogether the next time. plus we generally are not visiting NPS facilities.
dovecote
04-12-2012, 17:34
I'm organizing a group hike from Keys Gap to Harpers Ferry later this month. The plan of course was to leave some cars at the Visitors Center and shuttle people up to Keys Gap in a couple of vans/large SUVs. I had advised everyone that if they get to the gate at the Visitors Center early enough (used to be before 9 am) the ranger booth is closed and they can park for free, but if they arrive when a ranger is there, then the per car fee is $6. Well, I just found out that the fee has jumped to $10/car AND they are now charging $5/person to walk in or ride a bike in. Just to come into the lot and then get on the shuttle buses into town? I haven't been there in several months - are they going to set up toll booths now at the town entrances and on the footbridge at the C&O Canal? Are they going to start demanding everyone carry a ticket as proof they can be in town and to get back on the shuttle buses?
Has anyone run into this yet? I'm wondering how exactly this can be enforced. There are trail head lots along the canal that are free. Seems to me they are just going to encourage cars to park where they shouldn't be parking so that people can park and walk into town for free. Not to mention what this could do to the small businesses in town.
I love going there but I will absolutely think twice before setting up anymore hikes that end in town (where we always patronized the cafes and shops) if we are now going to have pay just to be in town.
You mention that your group hike is later this month. Are you aware that National Park entrance fees are waived during the period April 21-29? See this thread http://www.nps.gov/findapark/feefreeparks.htm You will notice that with careful planning there are other days during the year that you can avoid paying park fees.
I have been living in Harpers Ferry since 2002 although the past two years my time has been split between WV and GA. There has always been a $5 entry fee by foot or bicycle but this has never been enforced. I know that for a fact as my wife and I walk into town on a regular basis. During our walks we see Rangers all the time and not once in ten years have we been asked to show evidence of paying an entrance fee.
In regard to parking at the train station, you are correct that on the weekends (and holidays too) Rangers are present to collect parking fees (Rangers call them User Fees). There is a little known fact that if you want to park in the station lot for the purpose of transacting business with a merchant than the parking fee is waived. The Rangers are suppose to (and usually do) save a few spaces for that purpose. Regarding parking at the Maryland Heights trailhead, there is a honor box for parking.
I think the jump in price from $6 to $10 is a little steep. It is what it is. If you plan to use the park frequently then one should consider the $30 Annual Harpers Ferry pass. When I was living there year round I would purchase one every year. Even though I live in town it allowed be to bring friends and relatives into the park for free at the Visitor Center and Train Station lots. And again not once have I ever been asked while walking along the grounds or on the bus provide proof of paying an entrance fee.
I hope you group hike is still on and you can capitalize on the fee free days.
You mention that your group hike is later this month. Are you aware that National Park entrance fees are waived during the period April 21-29? See this thread http://www.nps.gov/findapark/feefreeparks.htm You will notice that with careful planning there are other days during the year that you can avoid paying park fees.
I have been living in Harpers Ferry since 2002 although the past two years my time has been split between WV and GA. There has always been a $5 entry fee by foot or bicycle but this has never been enforced. I know that for a fact as my wife and I walk into town on a regular basis. During our walks we see Rangers all the time and not once in ten years have we been asked to show evidence of paying an entrance fee.
In regard to parking at the train station, you are correct that on the weekends (and holidays too) Rangers are present to collect parking fees (Rangers call them User Fees). There is a little known fact that if you want to park in the station lot for the purpose of transacting business with a merchant than the parking fee is waived. The Rangers are suppose to (and usually do) save a few spaces for that purpose. Regarding parking at the Maryland Heights trailhead, there is a honor box for parking.
I think the jump in price from $6 to $10 is a little steep. It is what it is. If you plan to use the park frequently then one should consider the $30 Annual Harpers Ferry pass. When I was living there year round I would purchase one every year. Even though I live in town it allowed be to bring friends and relatives into the park for free at the Visitor Center and Train Station lots. And again not once have I ever been asked while walking along the grounds or on the bus provide proof of paying an entrance fee.
I hope you group hike is still on and you can capitalize on the fee free days.
i guess my question, which you may have insight into, is what constitutes park grounds? i have trouble believing the whole town is park grounds. the visitor center, obviously. the shuttle bus, certain specific historic locations and buildings, but i would think the rest of it is not park grounds. i cant fathom walking on a residential street and being told i'm on park grounds and need to pay $5 for being there. The OP seems to be under the impression that this is now going to be the case. you also seem to be saying that this has always been the case, but just was not enforced. are the rangers youve seen on your walks really just not enforcing the entrance fee, or are you not doing anything that qualifies as you needing an entrance fee? theres a difference, and i'm inclined to beleive the latter, not the former.
Cry me a river. Fees are going up in many national parks, one of which Harpers Ferry is. Pay the fee or go park/hike somewhere else.
I'm confused. When I hiked thru Harpers Ferry I never heard anything about any fee. Furthermore I was there for three days, walking about town and in and out of town. Still no mention of fees. I had family visit me there and still nobody said anything about fees. Did I miss something?
FWIW, if this thread were about fees at AMC huts, the OP would've been shredded by now. Just sayin.
dovecote
04-13-2012, 00:43
i guess my question, which you may have insight into, is what constitutes park grounds? i have trouble believing the whole town is park grounds. the visitor center, obviously. the shuttle bus, certain specific historic locations and buildings, but i would think the rest of it is not park grounds. i cant fathom walking on a residential street and being told i'm on park grounds and need to pay $5 for being there. The OP seems to be under the impression that this is now going to be the case. you also seem to be saying that this has always been the case, but just was not enforced. are the rangers youve seen on your walks really just not enforcing the entrance fee, or are you not doing anything that qualifies as you needing an entrance fee? theres a difference, and i'm inclined to beleive the latter, not the former.
I live about a 1/4 mile from the Shenandoah River Access Parking lot. When I get to this location by foot from my house the parking lot has a Information Board welcoming patrons to the Harpers Ferry National Historical Park. There is a lot to self pay for parking and perhaps (?) for foot and bicycle traffic. I will have to look on the payment policy on the information board the next time I am in town. This parking lot is just off US Highway 340. Once I am at this spot one has to conclude you are within the park boundary. Continuing my walk I cross the road and walk the trail on Virginius Island along the railroad tracks. I pass the employee parking lot near the shuttle bus stop often saying hello to Rangers. The trail ends at the confluence of the Potomac and Shenandoah River. I walk up the stairs to River Point, to the train station, and return home via High St.
Do I need a $5 individual pass during my walk on park grounds? I never have asked but one would think so. The park itself composes a large area in addition to the downtown historic district. There are numerous park entry signs on the main highway, secondary roads in town, and trails including the AT. There are also numerous signs "Leaving Harpers Ferry NHP" displayed as well. I believe it is business as usual within the park and you can come and go as you please without having to display a park receipt proving you paid entry into the park.
I live about a 1/4 mile from the Shenandoah River Access Parking lot. When I get to this location by foot from my house the parking lot has a Information Board welcoming patrons to the Harpers Ferry National Historical Park. There is a lot to self pay for parking and perhaps (?) for foot and bicycle traffic. I will have to look on the payment policy on the information board the next time I am in town. This parking lot is just off US Highway 340. Once I am at this spot one has to conclude you are within the park boundary. Continuing my walk I cross the road and walk the trail on Virginius Island along the railroad tracks. I pass the employee parking lot near the shuttle bus stop often saying hello to Rangers. The trail ends at the confluence of the Potomac and Shenandoah River. I walk up the stairs to River Point, to the train station, and return home via High St.
Do I need a $5 individual pass during my walk on park grounds? I never have asked but one would think so. The park itself composes a large area in addition to the downtown historic district. There are numerous park entry signs on the main highway, secondary roads in town, and trails including the AT. There are also numerous signs "Leaving Harpers Ferry NHP" displayed as well. I believe it is business as usual within the park and you can come and go as you please without having to display a park receipt proving you paid entry into the park.
well the trail on virginius island and that area i can certainly see as being park ground, i'm thinking more of something like walking from the train station to ATC headquarters and back, so more through town than through the bit of woods that are along the river. i dont doubt they have boundary signs, but i doubt that EVERY thing within those boundaires is actually part of the park.
Mrs B
If you're a frequent vistor an $80.00 National Parks Pass is a good investment
http://www.nps.gov/findapark/passes.htm