Pack to the Drawing Board

[Beuhler]

I've been on the hunt for a new pack as I've outgrown my Gregory Palisade (6lbs 10 oz without rain cover), replacing heavy, bulky gear with lighter, smaller and more compressible alternatives. My big annual trip is typically in bear canister territory. So being able to fit a BearVault 500 is a definite requirement. The other is being able to carry a 35lb load comfortably. I'm trying to get my weight down even more but at 35lbs I'll be 7lbs less than last year. Not bad progress.

I scoured the Internet for viable candidates and narrowed my choices down to the Gregory Z65, Gregory Savant 58, Osprey Atmos 65, and the Osprey Kestrel 68. If I was getting a new pack I wanted to make it at least a few pounds lighter than the Palisade. That eliminated the likes of the Gregory Baltoro 65 and Osprey Aether 60 as they are both in the 5+ lb range. Not particularly interested in the ULA or GG packs, either.

Although I really liked the Atmos (and read many positive reviews) I was concerned the curved back would make fitting the bear can difficult. I tried the pack on at REI. Without any weight it fit well but my concern about the pack shape eliminated it from contention (maybe prematurely). The Z65 also fit well (without weight) but the same concern about fitting a bear can (and the fact that it was the heaviest pack in the group) eliminated it, as well.

That left the Savant and the Kestrel. I'm 5'7" but with short legs and a long torso I require a large size pack. First, I tried a large Kestrel 48 with 25 lbs. It felt pretty good in the store and it looked like a larger size would fit the bear can. I liked all of the features of the Kestrel (belt pockets, sleeping bag compartment, rain cover, external hydration pocket, etc.). On paper, this was the perfect pack for me.

Next, I tried the Savant. It felt a little more comfortable than the Kestrel (with 25 lbs) but lacked a sleeping bag compartment (not a big deal) and was so new I couldn't find any user reviews. It looked like it would fit the bear can (only vertically, posing a possible packing problem) and had an external hydration pocket (peace of mind and access without having to unpack to refill).

Ultimately the lack of reviews gave me pause and I ordered the Kestrel 68.

When I received the pack I loaded it up with most of the gear I'll be taking this trip (including the bear can which fit both horizontally and vertically) and tried it on, adjusting the various straps until it felt comfortable. After filling my CamelBak bladder with 2 liters of water and placing it in the external compartment I just could not adjust the pack to fit comfortably anymore. The shoulder straps wouldn't hug my shoulders properly, pulling on my collar bone and cutting off circulation to my arms. No amount of adjusting got it to fit as well as it did without the bladder. I loaded my Palisade and tried it on for comparison. Night and day. The harness on the Palisade fit so much better and, given the choice, the extra weight would be worth the added comfort.

I'm disappointed. I really wanted to love this pack. I just didn't fit my body well. Like I said, on paper it was perfect, but I'm returning it and going back to the drawing board.

The pack I'm now considering most is the Dueter ACT Lite 65 + 10 (has very positive reviews). I'll give the Atmos 65, Z65 and the Savant 58 another look but the external hydration sleeve on the Savant is giving me concerns, now.

Any one have experience with the Dueter? Or, use the Atmos 65/Z65 with a bear can?

[StichBurly]

We have the same body type short legs and long torso. I use the osprey talon 44. I love mine. It weighs just over 2lbs.

http://www.ospreypacks.com/en/product/multi-use_1/talon_44?tab=specifications

[Beuhler]

If Osprey made a larger sized Talon I'd consider it. I like the weight and design, I just don't think I'd be able to cram all my gear into a 44 liter bag. I have the Stratos 36 for day hikes and outings with the kids...and that fills up quick.

[chip2012]

I use a deuter 50+10 and I like it a lot. It is a good pack with lots of features but is a little on the heavy side being around 4.5-5 lbs. But in my experiences this bag is very durable.

[Beuhler]

I use a deuter 50+10 and I like it a lot.

Thanks chip2012 for the vote of confidence on Dueter packs. I'm headed back to REI tonight to try one on. Hopefully it will be as comfortable as my Palisade. The ACT Lite 65 is < 4 lbs— which is a good weight reduction (almost 3 lbs) over my Palisade. I'm going to give another serious look at the Atmos as well.

[bigcranky]

I've never been happy with the bladder pocket on my Kestrel - it pushes the back panel out of shape. That was one reason I finally gave up on bladders and went back to bottles. If you otherwise love the pack, you might consider that.

Other packs are an option, too. I'd take a hard look at the ULA Catalyst (http://www.ula-equipment.com/catalyst.asp) for the loads you are talking about.

[Beuhler]

Thanks BigCranky. The external pocket on the Kestrel was one of the features that I was most excited about. I liked the idea of being able to fill the bladder without strewing my pack contents all over the place or not having to worry about it leaking and getting my pack contents wet. I think it was the combination of the full bladder and the rigid bear can that made the Kestrel uncomfortable. Like you said, it pushed the back panel out of shape. Even if comfort wan't a factor I now believe the external hydration sleeve works better on paper than in practice. I found a full bladder was just too difficult to insert...even with the pack mostly empty.

Other wise it was a fantastic pack. I'm sure ditching either the bladder or the bear can would make the Kestrel a viable solution for me, but I'm accustomed to a bladder and I need the bear can where I backpack. Also, a future purchase may be a gravity filter from which I'll use the clean bag as my bladder. So long term planning means the Kestrel, as it stands now, wouldn't work for me. For anyone not using a bladder, though, I highly recommend the Kestrel.

I did visit REI tonight and tried on the Dueter ACT Lite 65 +10. We loaded it with 25 lbs and I walked around the store for about 1/2 an hour. Right when I put it on I knew I'd be leaving the store with it. I was surprised by how comfortable it was. I didn't even feel the 25 lbs (a bit of hyperbole there but not much). The only features I wish it had were a second belt pocket—why it doesn't have one I don't know. They can't add that much weight. The other is straps on the bottom of the pack to hold a sleeping pad. I never used one on my previous pack but now I'm toying with ditching the inflatable pad and going with a ZRest or the like. I doubt a foam pad would fit in the pack and I'm not sure where I'd attach it.

[Firefighter503]

I started with a Deuter ACT Lite 65 +10 myself. I loved the pack, and so do two of my brothers. I generally carried about 30 or so pounds in it (including food/water), and never needed the +10 part of it (considered cutting it out). I eventually switched to a ULA Catalyst (due to excess volume in the ACT Lite more than anything), and as my gear got lighter/lower volume, switched to a ULA Ohm 2.0.

While the Deuter is a great pack in my opinion (and I know you probably don't want to hear this), I would strongly consider what you are carrying before committing to a new pack, and see if you can't reduce the weight/volume of that first.

[trapper]

Gregory baltoro 70. heavier but handles 40# like its not there. have a slightly used one in large id sell

[Chuch]

Good stuff. I am currently hiking the Dueter Zero zero pack and loved it but I LOVED the functionality and look of the Atmos 50. I was hoping the smaller size would force me to lighten up a bit as well. Got it home (ordered online like an idiot) and loaded it up with about 27 lbs. No matter how I loaded it, it had this tremendous pull backwards on my shoulders. I wore it around the house for an hour or so and then transfered the weight to the Deuter just to make sure I wasnt imagining things. WOW.....what a difference. The Deuter zero isnt the prettiest option out there, but its a little over 3lbs and fits me like a GLOVE.

Not saying the Osprey isnt a great pack. I wanted SO BADLY to love it, but it just didnt fit my back properly. Yes it was the right size and yes I tried every adjustment possible....believe me. My wife was not happy with me....I got the usual "I told you nothing was wrong with the pack you had!"

[Beuhler]

I started with a Deuter ACT Lite 65 +10 myself. I loved the pack, and so do two of my brothers. I generally carried about 30 or so pounds in it (including food/water), and never needed the +10 part of it (considered cutting it out). I eventually switched to a ULA Catalyst (due to excess volume in the ACT Lite more than anything), and as my gear got lighter/lower volume, switched to a ULA Ohm 2.0.

While the Deuter is a great pack in my opinion (and I know you probably don't want to hear this), I would strongly consider what you are carrying before committing to a new pack, and see if you can't reduce the weight/volume of that first.

Thanks FF503. Over the last few years I've replaced all of my bulky gear with lightweight compressible items. I'm about as small (volume wise as I can go right now—keeping in mind the necessary bear can and cold weather clothing).

I have a nice 30° Feathered Friends down bag, an Exped Synmat ul7, 1/2 of a REI Quarterdome T2 (my buddies tent that we share), various down and synthetic clothing, Emberlit UL stove, and a GSI Kettalist. I don't see much bulk to remove, but I'd love to get down to a 50L pack if I could.

[Firefighter503]

No problem. Feel free to post your list, I am sure the fine folks here can find some things that you can go without. I know for me, most of my bulk came from carrying too much extra clothes. The bear canister does definitely add another dynamic though. Regardless, I am sure you will love the Deuter. It really is a comfortable pack.

[Beuhler]

No problem. Feel free to post your list, I am sure the fine folks here can find some things that you can go without. I know for me, most of my bulk came from carrying too much extra clothes. The bear canister does definitely add another dynamic though. Regardless, I am sure you will love the Deuter. It really is a comfortable pack.

I think I might do that. Post my gear list, that is. Clothing is definitely the one thing I struggle most with. Mostly because our trip is usually Sept/Oct with temps around 70° day and 30° night. We usually hang outside at night drinking brandy and play cards by the campfire. If I was just eating dinner then jumping in my bag for the night it would be a lot easier to pack.

[pyroman53]

You just need a bigger campfire!! Ooops! Did I just say that out loud?

pyro

[Beuhler]

You just need a bigger campfire!!

Or more brandy!!!


Got it home (ordered online like an idiot) and loaded it up with about 27 lbs. No matter how I loaded it, it had this tremendous pull backwards on my shoulders.

Chuch, I read a few reviews that said the same thing about the Atmos. Not everyone felt that, but there were enough to cause some concern. I didn't want to discover I felt it after a few days on the trail.

My last trip, Sequoia, had a few narrow sections with steep drop offs on one side. Wanting to make good time our last day, I rushed my packing and made my pack all lopsided with the weight unevenly distributed. I had to stop mid-trail and repack everything before a very narrow section because I felt myself fighting to avoid leaning over the edge.

Feeling something pulling me backward while negotiating narrow, steep cliffs may cause me to utter unmasculine noises and suffer the ridicule of my buddies (I've given them enough ammunition already. Don't need to add more).