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Odd Man Out
04-24-2012, 11:27
In questions about water treatment here at WB, the use of Aqua Mira is widely suggested. However, I don't recall many comments about the logistics of its use for an AT Thru Hike. For those who have used this product:

1. Do you use drops or tablets?
2. How available is this at resupply stops? Did you find it necessary to do mail drops?
3. If not relying on mail drops, how much do you need to carry to be sure you can make it to the next supply point?
4. The answer to the previous question would partly be based on how much water you need to treat. Assuming you don't drink untreated water, how much water do you plan on treating per day on average?
5. Do you treat your cooking water?
6. I have seen various dose and treatment times recommended based on the source of the water and bugs you need to treat. Do you use these various recommendations, or just the standard treatment instructions.

TIA for the input.

Rocket Jones
04-24-2012, 11:43
I use the Aqua Mira drops. The amount of water per day really depends on the weather, obviously you're going to need more water on a hot day than a cold one. I use maybe 4-6 liters or more a day.

I generally follow the instructions on the package, which is 7 drops of A, 7 drops of B, let them activate for 5 minutes, then add to 1 liter of water, wait 15 minutes before drinking. If the water is murky, I'll pre-filter with a coffee filter to strain out the floaties and use extra drops per liter. Likewise, if the water is cold I'll give it extra time before using.

I know some people don't bother treating their cooking water because it'll come to a boil before using, but I just treat everything so I don't have to keep track of what's been treated and what hasn't.

I've found Aqua Mira at every outfitter I've ever visited. A set treats a lot of water, so it's not something that you'll run out of often.

bigcranky
04-24-2012, 11:45
The drops treat a lot of water, are relatively easy to use, and inexpensive. I used them for many years until discovering that the A.M. tablets are a LOT easier to use. For a thru-hike, though, I'd probably go back to the drops for cost. But the tabs are so easy, no mixing, no waiting for the drops to set for 5 minutes, no spilling the tiny caps full of the mix, no leaking acid in your pockets....

Spokes
04-24-2012, 13:37
...

1. Do you use drops or tablets?
Drops
2. How available is this at resupply stops? Did you find it necessary to do mail drops?
Yes, but may be harder to find up in the New England Area. I always carried a spare set in the bottom of my food bag and/or added some to my bounce box. I advise to buy it when you see it.
3. If not relying on mail drops, how much do you need to carry to be sure you can make it to the next supply point?
See above.
4. The answer to the previous question would partly be based on how much water you need to treat. Assuming you don't drink untreated water, how much water do you plan on treating per day on average?
Hmmm, that depends. I averaged treating about 4-6 liters per day.
5. Do you treat your cooking water?
Yep, I use an alchy stove. Boiling water isn't practical on a thru hike since it burns way too much fuel.
6. I have seen various dose and treatment times recommended based on the source of the water and bugs you need to treat. Do you use these various recommendations, or just the standard treatment instructions.
Follow the instructions on the package and you'll be fine.

JaxHiker
04-24-2012, 13:47
I carry my AM in micro drop bottles. They still hold a good bit and don't weigh much or take up much space. If the water has a lot of particles floating I use a Steripen filter. I've tried coffee filters, handkerchiefs, etc and haven't been happy with the results. The Steripen filter weighs more but seems to work well.

Spokes
04-24-2012, 13:50
........ Steripen recommends a backup method. Fear the red-light error. :mad:

flemdawg1
04-24-2012, 14:10
........ Steripen recommends a backup method. Fear the red-light error. :mad:

She's talking about just using the filter that Steripen sells, not the actual Streipen.

15793

Spokes
04-24-2012, 14:26
She's talking about just using the filter that Steripen sells, not the actual Streipen.

15793

Thank goodness!

I've never really had problems with floaties. Of course I don't act like an elephant at the water source either.:D

Turk6177
04-24-2012, 18:23
On this same note, if you are going to "camel up" at a water source, and you are using AM, do you have to just stand around and wait 15 minutes before you can drink a liter of water? That seems a long time to wait without walking. I am curious what the "camel-up" crowd does when they are at a water source. I certainly don't want to carry extra water for 15 minutes until I can drink it if I don't have to. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

TEXMAN
04-24-2012, 18:27
I use drops and tablets ..I carry the tablets as a backup for when I spill all my drops or forget to tighten the bottle top and they leak out...

Old Man River

Spokes
04-24-2012, 18:40
On this same note, if you are going to "camel up" at a water source, and you are using AM, do you have to just stand around and wait 15 minutes before you can drink a liter of water? That seems a long time to wait without walking. I am curious what the "camel-up" crowd does when they are at a water source. I certainly don't want to carry extra water for 15 minutes until I can drink it if I don't have to. Any suggestions are welcome. Thanks.

Easy peazy but you have to think ahead......... carry a couple liter Gatorade bottles and a 2 liter platy and learn how to drink and treat as you go so you don't run dry.It becomes second nature for a thru hiker.

In camp it's even easier. Make a water run and treat your water upon arrival then do all your set up chores. You should have plenty of time before dinner time rolls around.

If you can't "manage" water this way, perhaps a pump filter is the right choice for you.....

Cheers!

LDog
04-24-2012, 18:48
I follow the process outlined by Mike Clelland in Ultralight Backpackin' Tips. I carry a small eye-dropper bottle in which I premix enough for a day's use each morning. That bottle rides in my hipbelt pocket so I can fill up without taking my pack off. When I get to a water source, I drink whatever's left in my bottles, fill them up, and add drops. No waiting 5 mins for parts a&b to react cause I premixed it. I do wait 20 mins for the mix to work. I generally follow his concept about how many drops to add. Clean water coming out of a remote mountain spring may get no treatment, a remote mountain stream might get 7 drops. A puddle in a cow pasture would get the full 14 ... As long as the mix is bright yellow, it's good to go. I generally dump whatever's left over the next morning, and mix fresh. If I had lawyers, they would advise me to not recommend this process to anyone else. I would recommend buying and readin Clelland's book, and consider whether to adapt the process ...

Spokes
04-24-2012, 19:30
I follow the process outlined by Mike Clelland in Ultralight Backpackin' Tips. I carry a small eye-dropper bottle in which I premix enough for a day's use each morning. That bottle rides in my hipbelt pocket so I can fill up without taking my pack off. When I get to a water source, I drink whatever's left in my bottles, fill them up, and add drops. No waiting 5 mins for parts a&b to react cause I premixed it. I do wait 20 mins for the mix to work. I generally follow his concept about how many drops to add. Clean water coming out of a remote mountain spring may get no treatment, a remote mountain stream might get 7 drops. A puddle in a cow pasture would get the full 14 ... As long as the mix is bright yellow, it's good to go. I generally dump whatever's left over the next morning, and mix fresh. If I had lawyers, they would advise me to not recommend this process to anyone else. I would recommend buying and readin Clelland's book, and consider whether to adapt the process ...

Yes, there is some controversy about "pre-mixing" AM and from what I've researched it's not a good practice. As you eluded to, the specific issue deals with effectiveness.

Mike Clelland cautions on page 79 of his book that he "carefully monitors" the color of the premixed AM liquid to make sure it is bright yellow and discards the mixture and starts over if it's not. He's quick to point out the effectiveness of premixing AM is severely compromised by time, temperature, and sunlight.

Therein lies the problem. I say don't risk it. Follow the instructions on the package.

For those interested, here's a prior thread on the subject from 2006:

http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?18606-Pre-mix-aqua-mira

Odd Man Out
04-24-2012, 19:47
I would not use a pump but have considered the Sawyer Squeeze and the ability to get drinking water right away is an attractive feature. Although the Squeeze filter is lighter than pumps, it is not as light as AM, at least that is the claim that is always made. However, the weight difference between the two depends on how much AM one has to carry. I don't recall seeing that weight listed anywhere.

A set of AM bottles (1 oz each of soln A and B) is said to treat 30 gallons (120 quart or Liter treatments). Given the estimates of 4-6 liters per day (above), a two bottle set would last about 20 to 30 days. Does that sound about right? Is it reasonable to assume that an AT thru hiker will visit an outfitter every 20 to 30 days for resupply? If not, you might be inclined to carry two sets (4 oz total solution) as Spokes suggests.

Of course the weight of your AM will decrease as you use it, but starting out with 2 sets of bottles would give you 120 mL of solution which will weight about 120 grams which is 4.25 oz plus the mass of the bottles. The Sawyer Squeeze weight 3 oz (per specs), but I don't know if this is just the filter or if this includes the water bottles and syringe that come with it. There is also the added weight of water inside the filter. I haven't gotten my hands on one yet so I don't know the true field weight, but based on these calculations, the field weight of the AM might actually be similar. Or have I missed something?

I know there are many pros and cons to both filters chemical treatments, and I didn't want this thread to be a rehash of that debate. But I wonder (based on the calculations above) if AM is really that much lighter.

Just trying to "weigh" the options (pun intended!).

Spokes
04-24-2012, 19:50
Yes, it beats carrying a pump any day of the week.

JaxHiker
04-24-2012, 21:51
She's talking about just using the filter that Steripen sells, not the actual Streipen.

15793
This.

But "she" is a "he" and he uses the Fits All filter but thanks for the effort. ;)

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/315FO4BRevL._AA300_.jpg

MuddyWaters
04-24-2012, 21:53
We too use AM. Premix it , the little 3ml black dropper bottle holds enough for 3.5L. Never any issues. It stays sealed up tight and the mix is always bright yellow all day long. In warm weather thats even less than a day. I have left a little in there for a week after I got home, and it was not yellow anymore.

Its really not a big deal to wait 5 min either, everyone takes breaks, and usually at the water sources. Its still faster than pumping, lighter, and more reliable. I have no problem carrying an extra liter for 15 min instead of drinking right there. Oh my, like 1-2 lbs is gonna kill someone for 15 min. If thats the case youve got the wrong hobby.

The ONLY downsides is the slight chlorine taste, and the fact that nice cold water isnt as cold when you get around to drinking it.

RichardD
04-24-2012, 23:06
I used Aqua Mira drops except when water came directly from a piped spring, which I thought would be pure enough. I usually did not use it when I boiled water for Hot Drinks and cooking (my trail name is Hot Drinks). Most times the AM bottle would split before I had used all of it so occasionally I was left with backup Iodine or boiling. Over a 6 year period about half of my AM drops bottles have split and leaked.
On the whole it was convenient and lightweight. Most outfitters carried it.
One potential problem, I contracted toxoplasmosis and my research leads me to believe I got it on the trail. Usually contracted from cats but also contaminated water. Chlorine tratment does not kill the parasite so if it was contaminated water the Aqua Mira would not have made it safe. It has done a lot of damage to my eyesight.
I might be wrong about getting it from water on the trail but I suspect I am right.
Perhaps its not a big issue as few people get infected but many carry the parasite and perhaps its not common on the trail. I might have just been unlucky enough to get water from a stream where someones cat had been.
I believe I will revert back to the heavier filter for my next hike.

MuddyWaters
04-25-2012, 00:24
I used Aqua Mira drops except when water came directly from a piped spring, which I thought would be pure enough. I usually did not use it when I boiled water for Hot Drinks and cooking (my trail name is Hot Drinks). Most times the AM bottle would split before I had used all of it so occasionally I was left with backup Iodine or boiling. Over a 6 year period about half of my AM drops bottles have split and leaked.
On the whole it was convenient and lightweight. Most outfitters carried it.
One potential problem, I contracted toxoplasmosis and my research leads me to believe I got it on the trail. Usually contracted from cats but also contaminated water. Chlorine tratment does not kill the parasite so if it was contaminated water the Aqua Mira would not have made it safe. It has done a lot of damage to my eyesight.
I might be wrong about getting it from water on the trail but I suspect I am right.
Perhaps its not a big issue as few people get infected but many carry the parasite and perhaps its not common on the trail. I might have just been unlucky enough to get water from a stream where someones cat had been.
I believe I will revert back to the heavier filter for my next hike.

Sorry to hear of your trouble. I had never heard of this, so did some quick reading. Appears to be one of those things that most people are resistant to, most of the time. But occassionally something goes wrong for someone and they become succeptible. Just like common strep bacteria can cause necrotizing fascititis (flesh eating) to someone, or vibrio vulnificus found in warm seawater can do the same, or even kill some by ingestion , or even West Nile virus. Weakened immune systems often play a role. Do you have any reason to suspect your immune system was weakened?

Feral Bill
04-25-2012, 00:43
If one carries a liter of water as the AM works, and one "done" liter to drink from immediatly, doesn't that largely kill the weight advantage?

peakbagger
04-25-2012, 07:43
Chlorine Dioxide , espite having chlorine in it uses a completely different method of disinfection than straigth chlorine so the warning about toxoplasmosis may or may not be valid for AM.

MuddyWaters
04-25-2012, 08:25
If one carries a liter of water as the AM works, and one "done" liter to drink from immediatly, doesn't that largely kill the weight advantage?

Not really.

Most people fill at least one, maybe two water bottles at a source, and continue on their way. Regardless of method used. With AM , you just have to wait 20 min before drinking one of them, instead of starting to drink right away. And we are only talking about "questionable" sources too for many.

In reality, it can be less time than screwing around with pumps anyway.

Now if your strategy is to drink up at sources, and only carry minimal water to the next source, then yes you will probably carry more wt for a little while, OR hang out and drink before leaving.

Spokes
04-25-2012, 08:31
It's a non-issue. Most thru hikers do perfectly well with water management while using Aqua Mira. Will it guarantee you'll never run dry on occasion? Certainly not, but that's the exception not the rule.

RichardD
04-25-2012, 09:04
I read that this infection is prevalent in Immune deficient patients, I have no risk factors for Immune deficiency. I do wonder, however that for the last month of my hike I was very depleted and was getting weaker rather than stronger, not emaciated but certainly as skinny as I would ever want to be. I would guess that this would lower a persons immune system but I dont know. Unfortunately I delayed seeing an opthalmologist as I believed it was a cataract and I was out of state skiing all winter - not so convenient to take care of such matters when you are away from home.

LDog
04-25-2012, 09:07
I carry two 500ml bottles on my ULA shoulder straps, an empty 1L Platy, and an Antigravity Gear 1gal water bag my pack. Usually only have one L of water on me, and I try to fill one bottle as soon as I empty one.

LDawg
http://bit.ly/LDawg

RichardD
04-25-2012, 09:08
Peakbagger, Do you know that Chlorine dioxide will kill the parasite, I read that city water treatments do not kill it.

flemdawg1
04-25-2012, 10:10
Steripen, water that's ready in 90 seconds. :p

Spokes
04-25-2012, 11:45
Peakbagger, Do you know that Chlorine dioxide will kill the parasite, I read that city water treatments do not kill it.

T. gondii are highly resistant to chlorine disinfection and can survive even higher concentrations found in finished drinking water systems.

In other words, it's a bad arse little bugger.

TyTy
04-25-2012, 14:59
I carry a Steripen and AM as backup (re-packaged in smaller, lighter droppers). If I was to ever run into a really questionable water source I might use both. I love the Steripen for the immediate drink ability and I actually like tasting the water I am drinking, I feel like that is sort of part of the experience of experiencing new places. Also sometimes I will double zap the water if I think it is questionable, no idea if that is needed or not but it makes me feel better anyway.

QiWiz
04-26-2012, 12:45
In questions about water treatment here at WB, the use of Aqua Mira is widely suggested. However, I don't recall many comments about the logistics of its use for an AT Thru Hike. For those who have used this product:

1. Do you use drops or tablets?
2. How available is this at resupply stops? Did you find it necessary to do mail drops?
3. If not relying on mail drops, how much do you need to carry to be sure you can make it to the next supply point?
4. The answer to the previous question would partly be based on how much water you need to treat. Assuming you don't drink untreated water, how much water do you plan on treating per day on average?
5. Do you treat your cooking water?
6. I have seen various dose and treatment times recommended based on the source of the water and bugs you need to treat. Do you use these various recommendations, or just the standard treatment instructions.

TIA for the input.

Drops
put in resupply
you don't need to treat water you boil or get from a "good" spring
if I'm not boiling it, I treat it (cooking water)
You can do twice the dose for half the time, or half the dose for twice the time. I reduce the dose to half for overnight treatment