PDA

View Full Version : Trail Moochers



WIAPilot
04-27-2012, 12:44
For anyone on the AT in the last 4 yrs - is this a widespread problem? I don't mind helping a fellow hiker in need, but I'm going to be traveling light myself.

It seems to me that there is a fine line between being a sucker and coming across as a selfish jerk. What is trail etiquette?

Any suggestions? Would appreciate hearing how others deal with the situation...

Tom Murphy
04-27-2012, 12:56
Great question and I also want to hear how thru hikers handle it. I could see it getting real old, real fast.

I would always help someone in an true emergency but as the saying goes "Poor Planning on your part does not constitute an Emergency on my part."

lemon b
04-27-2012, 13:37
Hike your own hike.

Also No is a complete answer.

Sweetspot
04-27-2012, 13:43
Only a problem if you let it be. I have not run into anybody mooching. Oh I take that back. Lazy Susan. Most the hikers I have been around are prepared. Just remember if you give someone something. You might really need it later. Take care of yourself first. Have fun no moochers allowed.

rocketsocks
04-27-2012, 13:53
Great question and I also want to hear how thru hikers handle it. I could see it getting real old, real fast.

I would always help someone in an true emergency but as the saying goes "Poor Planning on your part does not constitute an Emergency on my part."+1 I like this very much,and will probably use this......with my kids. LOL HeHeHe

WingedMonkey
04-27-2012, 13:56
I only see it a problem if you are staving for friendship and allow yourself to be used. Just like in the real world.

Datto
04-27-2012, 14:06
On the AT I always helped a fellow thru-hiker. Happened several times and I was glad to be able to to help them (money, food, medication). On the PCT I helped those who had requested the help including one guy who appeared to be living on the PCT and requesting help from everyone who passed by. I gave him some food like I had given the others because each had asked at a time where I was carrying too much food. Ask yourself this -- if a fellow hiker needs help and you're able to help them without much of a sacrifice on your part, why not help them? Datto

daddytwosticks
04-27-2012, 15:22
I think there is a real difference between helping a fellow hiker get out of a jam and dealing with a habitual moocher. :)

Storm
04-27-2012, 15:43
I ran out of water on a hot day this year. Totally missed the spring which was off the trail. Was not to the point of it becoming an emergency but was really impressed that a fellow hiker offered me some water to get to the next spring. It made my day a whole lot easier.

Moose2001
04-27-2012, 15:48
I think there is a real difference between helping a fellow hiker get out of a jam and dealing with a habitual moocher. :)

Some times they are the same thing! :)

BlackCloud
04-27-2012, 16:02
Mouching has been a national epidemic now for at least a generation. You will only recognize a moucher if you are around them for some time. I find it is often the same people who need bailing out all the time. Not to say I haven't forgotten salt, or toothpaste, or whatever myself. For that reason, everyone gets the benefit of my doubts on the trail, once.

WIAPilot
04-27-2012, 16:02
I would help a fellow hiker in need of water in a heartbeat. I'm referring to the habitual moochers who live on handouts on the trail. Also as a woman, I don't relish the idea of stopping and pulling out some cash or food because it is easier to be mugged. After reading some of these posts, my fiancé is ready to hire a Marine for me. :(

leaftye
04-27-2012, 16:11
I always think of this:


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6GsjLPvW5I

Sugarfoot
04-27-2012, 16:15
In two decades of hiking the AT, I can't say habitual moochers have ever been a problem. The trail homeless I've met have been harmless and grateful for anything. I have adopted hikers now and then and made sure they had a hot meal in town and even on occasion a place to stay. Made them feel good, for sure, and made me feel good too. It doesn't happen often, and to tell the truth, I've felt great that I've been in a position to help. I'm told that when you put something in a Buddhist monk's begging bowl, it is traditional to say thank you to the monk, for the opportunity to give. I've heard a speaker who consults for not-for-profits talk about how your hands are positioned when you receive a gift -- outstretched. And how they are positioned when you give a gift -- outstretched. What about a person whose arms are crossed over his or her chest? To give or to receive is part of the same cycle of life. To cut yourself off from either is to cut yourself off from life. Sorry to preach!

Sweetspot
04-27-2012, 16:36
WIApilot, I am a a old women hiking alone. I have never felt like I needed a Marine. But I will take one. You will be fine. There are more moochers in the city then on the trail.

Datto
04-27-2012, 16:52
Mouching has been a national epidemic now for at least a generation.

On my first Great Adventure with my buddy Tony, we hitchhiked across the United States on much of a whim.

In Seattle we had gotten off the bus from traveling into the city from the town of Issaquah where we were staying with Tony's cousin. Tony and I sat on a bench right where the bus left us off in downtown Seattle. Sitting next to me was a guy who was a professional begger.

Tony and I watched the guy do his activities, then come back to the bench where Tony and I were sitting. Tony and I struck up a conversation with the guy and eventually inquired how he got into the line of work he had chosen. He said to us, "I was an aerospace engineer at Boeing before all the layoffs." He went on to say, "I make more money per hour doing this part time, four mornings a week, than I made per hour working as an engineer at Boeing."

I asked him how much he was making a year. He said (in todays dollars) he made more than $60,000 per year working part time. He said he now had the time to spend with his kids and still make money during the mornings.

Boeing eventually got their act together and ended up re-hiring many of the engineers they'd laid off back then.

I suspect some of them never went back.


Datto

Papa D
04-27-2012, 17:52
I've never felt like this was a big problem - - I always have fun helping people if I can - even giving food to homeless dudes that hang out in the shelters when I'm winter hiking makes me feel good. I probably involve myself a little too much in other people's epics - - like showing new backpackers tricks to keep dry and warm and keep their stuff in good repair but even a little bit of that is fun for me. In the rare case that someone is really starting to bother me, I'll just move on and avoid them - that's my take anyway - remember that good karma does come back to you - - my two cents ....

Old Boots
04-27-2012, 17:58
Is offering a legitimate trade the same thing as mooching?

MuddyWaters
04-27-2012, 19:10
Havent encountered any myself, but Iver read in a few books as well as here, that there are a few that try to hike with no money, or spend it all in towns , drinking, partying etc. Then try to take advantage of the kindness of others to stay on the trail instead of going home. They..are moochers. They have an alternative, go home, go back to school, go to mommy and daddy's house.

People who are needy or homeless or unprepared or just plain use bad judgement are not. In my opinion..

Biggie Master
04-27-2012, 19:40
For anyone on the AT in the last 4 yrs - is this a widespread problem? I don't mind helping a fellow hiker in need, but I'm going to be traveling light myself.

It seems to me that there is a fine line between being a sucker and coming across as a selfish jerk. What is trail etiquette?

Any suggestions? Would appreciate hearing how others deal with the situation...

Is mooching a problem? No, I don't think so. I've never had anyone ask for a handout, but I've given help to several people on the trail.

What is trail etiquette? Treat people like people - if you can share and are willing, then please let your conscience guide you. There's no rule that requires you to help anyone, other than yourself. But if you were truly in need, what would you want others to do for you? I would rather share from my abundance than to withhold from someone who might be in need.

mirabela
04-27-2012, 20:04
I don't think it's anything new. When I hiked in 1991, there was a small contingent of people who seemed mostly to show up in the towns and present themselves as thru hikers so as to claim some of the kindnesses, food donations, cheap or free beds, etc. that thru hikers benefit from. They never seemed to hike much. There were also some folks who I think were basically shelter squatters -- guys who would set up in a shelter for weeks at a time, sort of claiming to be a thru-hiker as a part of their act to cadge food handouts and so forth.

There's a certain quotient of sleaziness in the world, and the AT is not immune.

Wise Old Owl
04-27-2012, 20:18
Mouching has been a national epidemic now for at least a generation. You will only recognize a moucher if you are around them for some time. I find it is often the same people who need bailing out all the time. Not to say I haven't forgotten salt, or toothpaste, or whatever myself. For that reason, everyone gets the benefit of my doubts on the trail, once.

Its nothing new... folks mooch-get over it.


I don't think it's anything new. When I hiked in 1991, there was a small contingent of people who seemed mostly to show up in the towns and present themselves as thru hikers so as to claim some of the kindnesses, food donations, cheap or free beds, etc. that thru hikers benefit from. They never seemed to hike much. There were also some folks who I think were basically shelter squatters -- guys who would set up in a shelter for weeks at a time, sort of claiming to be a thru-hiker as a part of their act to cadge food handouts and so forth.

There's a certain quotient of sleaziness in the world, and the AT is not immune.

Well if I have half a sandwich (in general for everyone) - your welcome to it... not much to post about huh?

Capt Nat
04-27-2012, 23:03
You folks are really great people and I admire and respect that. I'm a piece of crap though. I will help anyone I can to quite an extent. For me though, helping them means that they are trying. If I see that they are doing their best then I will carry as much of thier load or share what I have with them. But, if it appears to me that they are just mooching/begging, they get a quick "no" from me. I'm not going to support or enable a lazy, sorry individual.

rocketsocks
04-27-2012, 23:13
You folks are really great people and I admire and respect that. I'm a piece of crap though. I will help anyone I can to quite an extent. For me though, helping them means that they are trying. If I see that they are doing their best then I will carry as much of thier load or share what I have with them. But, if it appears to me that they are just mooching/begging, they get a quick "no" from me. I'm not going to support or enable a lazy, sorry individual.+1 could not have said it any better.

Bronk
04-28-2012, 01:13
Probably the most common form of mooching occurs in trail towns where hikers take advantage of hostels, shuttles, hotels and other service providers. Somebody who would feel weird begging for food or supplies, or would never even think about stealing for some reason has no problem using a service and not putting anything in the donation box or letting 4 of their buddies take a shower in their hotel room.

rocketsocks
04-28-2012, 01:57
Probably the most common form of mooching occurs in trail towns where hikers take advantage of hostels, shuttles, hotels and other service providers. Somebody who would feel weird begging for food or supplies, or would never even think about stealing for some reason has no problem using a service and not putting anything in the donation box or letting 4 of their buddies take a shower in their hotel room.I think "Dirt Bagging" has been glorified to the point of "one ups-manship",problem is theft of service isn't dirt bagging......it's stealing period.True "Dirt Baggin requires finesse,and style,not elbows from the top of the key to the boards.It's more like a three pointer,or a Granny shot for the win,and I don't even like basketball,cept the finals.:D

BigRing
04-28-2012, 08:04
IMHO there is a difference between someone in need and a hiker too cheap or selfish to have the necessary gear. The later can take a hike!

ShaneP
04-28-2012, 09:09
How much mooching is the result of hikers underestimating the real cost of a thru? Or somebody who thinks they can do it as cheaply as possible skipping beers at the bar and pizza in town, but when the time comes and the fellas are off to town, the shelter seems lonely, the knorr bland. Can I go with? can you spot me a fiver? can you bring me back a doggie bag?

WIAPilot
04-28-2012, 14:15
How much mooching is the result of hikers underestimating the real cost of a thru? Or somebody who thinks they can do it as cheaply as possible skipping beers at the bar and pizza in town, but when the time comes and the fellas are off to town, the shelter seems lonely, the knorr bland. Can I go with? can you spot me a fiver? can you bring me back a doggie bag?

Can I feel for someone who realizes that he is actually going to need more money on the trail in order to have a good time? Yes. But I also know that except for maybe the real young ones, most of us have been saving for years or have sacrificed a lot to do this. Few are independently wealthy.

There is a real difference between helping a fellow hiker who has misjudged water/fuel and is truly in need vs. financially funding his beers or nights out on the trail. If his buddies want to pick up the tab = great. But I'm not his mama and I think that this could get old real fast.

GritsNgreens
04-28-2012, 17:14
What goes around comes around, you never know it might be you with your ass in the breeze one day, maybe not on the trail, but life will continue even after you kick your boots off. I'll help anyone (without completly depleting my supply) and not expect anything in return Why? because my parents raised me right!!! If you follow your heart, upbringing, and personal God you will arrive at the right decision and besides if you only think of yourself you'll wind up by yourself.

WIAPilot
04-28-2012, 17:32
What goes around comes around, you never know it might be you with your ass in the breeze one day, maybe not on the trail, but life will continue even after you kick your boots off. I'll help anyone (without completly depleting my supply) and not expect anything in return Why? because my parents raised me right!!! If you follow your heart, upbringing, and personal God you will arrive at the right decision and besides if you only think of yourself you'll wind up by yourself.

Well, I can tell you that my personal God does not expect me to supply the beers + pizza. Thanks for the discussion. It has helped me arrive at my own code. I refuse to be someone's personal ATM though.

GritsNgreens
04-28-2012, 19:34
.....again if you cannot, or will not help just politely refuse and move on the rest will fall into place, too easy

Jack Tarlin
04-28-2012, 22:19
Christian charity is one thing, and I'm all in favor of it. But the number of folks who somehow manage to leave town without cigarettes, candy bars, even food, is astounding, yet somehow, one has vivid memories of these same folks staying at hotels, hanging out in Trail saloons, etc. Yet amazingly, enough, two days, later, in the middle of the woods, they are suddenly bereft of all the necessaries. Until, of course, the next town, hostel, or beer store comes into view, and magically, the burger and beer money makes a grand re-appearance. The simple answer to the question put forth by the original poster: By all means help out your fellow hiker down on his luck, who has mis-judged his re-supply, or may need a brief helping hand. But people who do this habitually and regularly? They need to get a job or get home.

BlackCloud
04-29-2012, 22:43
Absolutely not.

Mountain Mike
04-29-2012, 22:57
There are moochers & those in need. Onmy AT thru one young hiker was doing it on a very limited budget but became part of the quazie group I was hiking with. He cooked his mac & cheese over a fire every night till fire ban hit in some areas. I never had a problem lending him my stove for him to cook in those areas. While on PCT in Sierras I was running low on fuel. I ran into another solo hike (first person in days) & after a long talk just because it had been several days since seeing a person for both of us I asked if he had extra, which he did. That few oz saved my ass, well at least I didn't have to make a fire.
As for the party crowd that live for town stops. They are like feeding wild animals. They get used to it and can't survive on their own.

rocketsocks
04-29-2012, 23:52
Absolutely not.
could you elaborate?

Jim Adams
04-30-2012, 08:55
IMHO there is a difference between someone in need and a hiker too cheap or selfish to have the necessary gear. The later can take a hike!

I will always stop to help in an emergency but as BigRing states that is not always the case.

I ran into a thru hiker on the PCT that had been critical and belittled other hikes for 3 days because he had a 14lb. pack and the reason that everyone else was too heavy and over packed was because they simply didn't know how to "correctly" backpack. The third night he asked me if he could use my cell phone to call home and have a re-stock sent to him. I let him use my phone and after he had talked for almost an hour, I asked him if his cell phone was dead. He stated that he doesn't carry a cell phone because it is useless to carry something that heavy and only use it every few days. I grabbed my phone from him, mid call, and walked away. He then made the statement that he can't believe that there were so many rude hikers out there....then asked if he could borrow my stove!....he ate cold food that night. I never saw him again...as he bragged..."he had no problem doing 40 mile days with his light pack".

geek

vamelungeon
04-30-2012, 09:06
I will always stop to help in an emergency but as BigRing states that is not always the case.

I ran into a thru hiker on the PCT that had been critical and belittled other hikes for 3 days because he had a 14lb. pack and the reason that everyone else was too heavy and over packed was because they simply didn't know how to "correctly" backpack. The third night he asked me if he could use my cell phone to call home and have a re-stock sent to him. I let him use my phone and after he had talked for almost an hour, I asked him if his cell phone was dead. He stated that he doesn't carry a cell phone because it is useless to carry something that heavy and only use it every few days. I grabbed my phone from him, mid call, and walked away. He then made the statement that he can't believe that there were so many rude hikers out there....then asked if he could borrow my stove!....he ate cold food that night. I never saw him again...as he bragged..."he had no problem doing 40 mile days with his light pack".

geek

I meet egocentric people like that all the time. On the highway, in stores, and even on trails as your story illustrates so well. They literally can't carry their own weight.

Jim Adams
04-30-2012, 09:22
They literally can't carry their own weight.


LOL....great way to put it!

geek

Lemni Skate
04-30-2012, 09:26
Well, if you underestimate the cost of "enjoying" your thru-hike, maybe it's time to get off the trail, save a little money, and come back next year. I'm definitely giving stuff to a guy in Virginia who I know was just in down knocking back brewskys. I am very inclined to help the following, however. People running out of water, people suffering from hypothermia, people who had supplies stolen, etc. etc.

It's hard for me to feel much sympathy for the kid who got $1500 in graduation presents and thought he could "enjoy" his AT hike adventure on that, is not going to mooch off of me. Heck I've been planning and saving and getting my own kids through college so I can do this as an old man.

Live_for_hiking
04-30-2012, 12:17
Life tends to be situational. Use common sense and do what you think is best.

WIAPilot
05-01-2012, 06:07
I do think that there is a lot of misinformation out there too. I have read on several recent threads that the cost of hiking the AT is roughly $1 per mile. Huh?? $2200 for a six-month hike?? That's about $12 per day for supplies, laundry, showers, the occasional hostel and weekly pizza and beer. I'm thinking about $3 per mile at the very least for hikers unless they have a heck of a lot of drop boxes or sponsors. Maybe some of them think that they can survive on Ramen, but that does get old. If this is the information that most young hikers believe, then no wonder they are mooching on the trail. I think many of them don't realize that they will be hungrier than usual and that supplies will be a little more expensive.

One Half
05-01-2012, 07:09
That $1 a mile estimate has been around for a least the last 20 years. Inflation and common sense dictate that number has to have gone up.There is nothing you can do today for the same cost or less than 20 years ago (except rent a movie).

Cookerhiker
05-01-2012, 08:11
Life tends to be situational. Use common sense and do what you think is best.

This pretty much sums up my philosophy - trust your instincts. I've actually met some homeless guys who while obviously in need, did not outwardly "mooch" or beg. Once while section-hiking in CT and base-camping at a State Park, a homeless guy intending to walk to Florida hung with me for a day and never asked for anything but advice. Offered him space at my campsite which he accepted but that was it.

As others have said, the true "moochers" are those ill-prepared would-be thruhikers who cheat service providers every chance they get. And regrettably, there's even a few on WB who encourage such behavior.

GritsNgreens
05-01-2012, 08:37
Man the trail seems to have changed, it's been a long time (over 10 yrs) since my last hike on the AT and I gotta tell ya , reading this post has definetly made me re-think the one I was planning, saving, and looking forward to, in 2013. Is it even worth it? from the sounds of it it seems all I'm going to do is get hassled my entire trip. I don't drink anymore so the odds of someone getting beer $$ from me is Jack and *****, as far as food, water, shelter etc. (ya know the neccesities) No Prob. I refuse to let anyone suffer weather they suck at planning or not. Please note the key word...neccesities, as far as luxury items I'm open for trade and or sale.

Rusty Nail
05-01-2012, 08:43
Only a problem if you let it be. I have not run into anybody mooching. Oh I take that back. Lazy Susan. Most the hikers I have been around are prepared. Just remember if you give someone something. You might really need it later. Take care of yourself first. Have fun no moochers allowed.


hey Sweetspot its Rollin. Lazy Susan is now a legend a guy passed me the other day and said a woman shuttled ahead and then called the police because of Lazy Susan. He must have been talking about burning shelters again.

PS Thank you again for the cabin in NOC I did not see you after that but I asked everyone who was doing big miles if they had seen you. Most of the crew ended up in Hot Springs at the same time but Weatherman and Waterboy were nowhere to be found. Yukon, Yodeler, Firefox, Baby Scrooge, lady Forward, Josh, W and I were there.

MJW155
05-01-2012, 09:19
I had an experience with a moocher 2 weeks ago. I was in town and Atlas came up to me and asked if he could stay in my room. I was caught off guard b/c I never had something like that happen. I said OK even though I really didn't want to. He said he couldn't afford paying $40 for a hotel room. While staying with me, he was smoking cigs, talking on a cell phone, bought a few 2 liter bottles of soda, etc. That's the last time I'll be caught off guard like that. I heard lots of stories about him at NOC. Seems like he's making quite the name for himself on the trail this year.

flemdawg1
05-01-2012, 09:30
Did he not offer to pay anything?

MJW155
05-01-2012, 09:41
Did he not offer to pay anything?

No. He said he had less than $20. He hurt his back and is collecting disability. He needed to wait until the 1st to get more money.

I'm sorry but if you can't afford a cheap $40 room 2 weeks into your hike, you shouldn't be on the trail.

But like I said, he caught me off guard. I'll never be caught off guard like that again. LOL.

WIAPilot
05-01-2012, 09:48
Thanks for sharing that. I think that the more we are aware of these types, the more we will be prepared to just say no. Not be caught off-guard as you were so thank you. Again, I am not referring to a fellow hiker who is truly in need of first-aid, maybe a little fuel, etc....