Spot Locater and Rattlesnake Bite!!

[SunnyWalker]

Read and think carefully: You are miles from a trail and alone, on CDT, there is no cell phone coverage, you have a Spot Locator device on your pack. You have been bitten real good by a rattlesnake. You have to decide on which poll question or selection you would take. How 'bout it?

[Spirit Walker]

I wouldn't carry a spot. Wouldn't have a cell phone. So in this situation, I'd find a place to camp near water and wait it out.

[bearcreek]

As the child of a prominent herpetologist, I know a bit about rattlesnakes.

A lot of rattlesnake bites are non-venomous or mildly venomous. (little or no injection of venom) When there is injection of venom, the effects are usually almost immediate - severe pain, discoloration, and swelling. Rattlesnake venom is not a conventional poison - it is extremely strong digestive fluid. (haemotoxic) It causes serious tissue damage by digesting the area of the bite, but unless injected directly into a major vein or artery, is usually not fatal. If it is a non-venomous bite you will still be able to hike. You should still see a doctor but chances are you will be fine. There is one specie, the Mohave Rattlesnake which occurs in the southern parts of AZ, CA, NV, NM, and West TX, which has a neurotoxic effect in addition to the haemotoxic and has been known to cause severe respiratory illness and death even when the bites seemed minor. (Mohaves look much like an ordinary diamondback but are greenish in tint)

There really is no effective first aid in the field. The treatment for a rattlesnake bite is anti-venom. The anti-venom you require must match the specific type of rattlesnake that bit you. For this reason you should kill the snake if possible and take it to the medical facility with you. At the very least, get some good photographs so they can identify it and prescribe the correct anti-venom. BTW, be very careful when handling dead rattlesnakes. They can sometimes bite reflexively for a period of time.

Contrary to popular mythology, larger rattlesnakes have larger volumes of venom and can cause more tissue damage than smaller ones. Diamondbacks get large and can cause a lot of damage.

Rattlesnakes of various species occur at lower elevations along the entire length of the CDT. NM has Prairie, Diamondback, and Mohaves. The Mohaves are only known to occur in the extreme southern part of the state close to the Mexican border. Once you are out of NM the only species found is the Prairie Rattlesnake. The CDT is at high elevation throughout CO so chances of seeing them are slim. They occur again in WY and MT. We came across one just south of Rawlins when we went through.

If you are bitten and if it is a painful, swollen bite you need to remember that the venom is digesting your tissue and there is no such thing as "waiting it out". It will get progressively worse with time, leading to severe tissue damage and possible loss of a limb. That is a medical emergency. If you are a long ways from help and happen to have a Spot then press the 911 button and sit still. Stop hiking and stay close to wherever you were when you pressed the button - that is where they will come to find you.

[Papa D]

I have often wondered what I would do in the case of a venomous snake-bite when venom was injected. I have seen quite a few rattlesnakes and copperheads in my neck of the woods over the years and have managed to avoid them just fine. I think that the chances of a bite are very remote. My experience is that snakes want to be away from you and will always choose to retreat if you are near (if they can). I always watch my step and in "snaky" spots, I like to lead with my trekking poles a bit. On one occasion, I actually stepped right on top of a timber rattler in some thick grass on top of a rock climb. The snake gave off it's characteristic "buzz" sound and I moved away - - no harm, no foul, it seemed to say - - I watched it for a few minutes from a safe distance - - it ceased the buzz, uncoiled and went away.

I suppose falling right on a venomous snake or running off trail and not watching where you are going carefully could put you at risk of a bite.

In this most rare case (since I don't carry a spot), I would try to get cell service. Failing that, I would assess the location of the closest road (or house or farm) and try to proceed slowly and calmly as possible to that place to seek help. With a victim, I would likely make a quick camp and leave them to go get help unless a well traveled road or other help was really close.

The whole thing is very very unlikely, but the manner in which you would seek help in such a scenario is interesting in and of itself

[LDog]

If you are bitten and if it is a painful, swollen bite you need to remember that the venom is digesting your tissue and there is no such thing as "waiting it out".

I think the above is a very thoughtful, well-written response, and I only quote this part in response to the survey questions.

I understand many, maybe most, rattlesnake bites do not result in envenomation. Therefore, initiating a SAR mission before knowing whether one is needed is unnecessary, wasteful, and is taking SAR resources away from other tasks - if not putting them at risk. Ultimately, it results in the whole emergency response network looking at these SOSs as being from kids who cry wolf.

Make sure you're safe, sit down, take a few deep breaths, assess the bite, get baseline vitals, perform first aid for puncture wounds, and monitor it for signs/symptoms of envenomation before activating a SAR event. If no signs, hike out, and get care for what may be a nasty, infected pair of puncture wounds..

[Kerosene]

If I'm going to lug the &^%# thing then I would at least send out an e-mail alert, but I'd try to hike out before calling for help. There's no way that I'd just sit there unless I knew someone was behind me, and even then I'd probably start walking as they would probably catch me pretty quickly.

[bearcreek]

If you can continue on unaided then probably you should not press the 911 button in the first place. When you do it sends your current location coordinates to those responsible for SAR. This basically tells them "I am hurt and this is where I am" If you continue walking they won't be able to find you. You need to stay put once you push that key.

Three years ago a thru hiker (Goatman) was hiking the CDT in NM with two pack goats and broke his ankle. He pressed the Spot 911 button and had help within six hours in the form of a SAR crew plus a military helicopter that took him out. One of the SAR members took his goats home and kept them until he was able to get them.

One dilemma with the Spot is that you don't really know if a message is received or not. Goatman was worried about that so he pressed it several times a few minutes apart.

Lots of info on the Goatman drama on CDT-L here: http://mailman.backcountry.net/pipermail/cdt-l/2010-May/thread.html

[SunnyWalker]

Thanks, Bearcreek for the Goatman info. Neato.
I was north of the NM border north of Columbus when a came across a Mojave Rattler. First rattlesnake I ever saw in all my hiking and camping. However, i still think the question and poll is valid and wish to continue to read your responses.

[waasj]

I was clearing fence in Florida several years ago. Crossed the fence and landed right next to a Canebrake. He went one way, I went the other. Most snakes will leave if you give them an out. Also, their Jacobsen's Organs allow them to gauge the size of their target, and it is thought they can control whether or not to envenomate the bite. Something to big to eat would not be worth wasting the venom on.

[SunnyWalker]

Comon Wassj, that's a load of blarney!!!!! How many people do I know who have been bitten by rattlesnakes, and suffered from the bite and venom. Lots. Anyway, thanks for the reply!

[bamboo bob]

I have never met anyone who has been bitten by a rattlesnake. 12000 miles of AT.PCT, etc, etc. Like every other animal I've come upon the rattle snakes mainly took off or made there presence known. So I conclude it's a very rare event and if I carried gear to deal with rattle snakes and all other other rare events that it is possible to encounter my pack would get very big indeed. So no snake bite kit, not spot, no bear spray, no gun, no extra back ups for everything. I have a cell phone so I can reserve a room when in range of a town, and catch the baseball scores from time to time. You got to keep your priorities straight.

[Eighty-Eight]

I wonder if snakebite is what happened to Bill Ott, who disappeared just to the west of GCNP this April. Could have been a lot of things i suppose. Perhaps they've located him safe and sound somewhere by now and i just haven't heard.

[Fredt4]

several er doctors have stated to me that based on the damage they have seen from snake bite kits they should be banned.

perhaps someone knowledgeable could comment on this.

[fiddlehead]

Comon Wassj, How many people do I know who have been bitten by rattlesnakes, and suffered from the bite and venom. Lots.

Stop trying to pick them up, and they'll stop being bit.
I don't know one person who's been bit.
And I know a lot of hikers.

[bamboo bob]

Whenever I read about snake bites. "Young male, possibly drunk... teasing a snake, etc, etc"

[pyroman53]

I know 3 people who have been bit by rattlesnakes. One knucklehead got bitten while trying to move the snake away from campsite (carrying it with a long stick). One guy was doing yard work. Last was a young girl doing stream surveys for Game and Fish who jumped onto stream bank next to the snake. All related how extremely painful and damaging the bite was. I would not want to be in the situation described but my guess is you'll know if you got a dose of venom REAL soon and if you did you'll hit the 911 button a short time later. I can think of many situations where having a Spot might save my life were I bit while hiking alone. The AT is not one of them on most days.

[SunnyWalker]

Thanks Pyroman. However, my context is the CDT.

[SunnyWalker]

Let me correct the my last post. The context of the THREAD and etc is CDT. I am not on it currently, but planning to this spring.