View Full Version : Tick Questions
untitleddocument
05-03-2012, 20:51
Just wondering if any thru or section hikers have encountered tick problems so far this year. If so, whereabouts?
Also, is permethrin suggested, or is deet good enough? If I use permethrin, how often should I reapply it? Most labels say 6 weeks but should I do 4 to be safe? Also, what do you spray? Just the clothes on your body, or everything including your pack, headwear, etc?
Thanks
ChinMusic
05-03-2012, 20:56
Also, is permethrin suggested, or is deet good enough? If I use permethrin, how often should I reapply it? Most labels say 6 weeks but should I do 4 to be safe? Also, what do you spray? Just the clothes on your body, or everything including your pack, headwear, etc?
Thanks
I plan on treating after 4 weeks but I have nothing to back up that choice. My suspicions are that the rigors of a thru may wash out/degrade the permethrin prematurely.
I treat all my clothing with the soak method and stray shoes, pack, tent opening.
Pathfinder1
05-03-2012, 20:58
Hi...
I've read posts in which either one will work (NOT verified by me). CAUTION: if you should decide on DEET...that stuff will dissolve paint...!! (I can personally verify that).
untitleddocument
05-03-2012, 21:00
I treat all my clothing with the soak method and stray shoes, pack, tent opening.
I agree with your 4 week theory.
And by soak method you are implying you dump the permethrin into a container and literally dunk your clothes in? I suppose that must be more effective but can the higher concentration of chemical be dangerous at all? Sorry, just not very familiar with the product.
untitleddocument
05-03-2012, 21:02
I've read posts in which either one will work (NOT verified by me). CAUTION: if you should decide on DEET...that stuff will dissolve paint...!! (I can personally verify that).
I have heard that DEET is pretty nasty as well, that it can eat through certain types of clothing etc. Have you heard anything about combining the two products or is that overkill?
I just stress about ticks because both my father and girlfriend have had Lyme Disease and it was not a good experience.
No reason not to use both. Use the DEET on the trail to repel ticks, and treat your clothing with permethrin at home to kill ticks if they do get on your clothing.
Rocket Jones
05-03-2012, 21:31
I was in Shenandoah a couple of weeks ago and it was already tick city! Those of us that had done the permethrin dip had no problems, those who didn't each found at least a few. The dogs picked up dozens over the course of 4 days.
I didn't even have to use the Deet because between my shirt and hat everything stayed away from my face and neck.
No reason not to use both. Use the DEET on the trail to repel ticks, and treat your clothing with permethrin at home to kill ticks if they do get on your clothing.
Permethrin is for clothing only.
Deet is primarily for bare skin, but will work on clothing as well. It lasts for a number of hours, rather than weeks, like permethrin.
Btw, every website I've visited regarding tick prevention suggests tucking pants into socks (obviously wearing shorts puts the hiker at greater risk, though long pants made of mosquito netting can be bought at Campmor and other outdoors out fitters). When given the choice I pick nylon over polyester because, ounce for ounce, it's stronger.
http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/files/1/3/7/5/0/dscf1440_thumb.jpg[/URL ([URL]http://whiteblaze.net/forum/vbg/showimage.php?i=25280)]
Mosquito netting pants.
I'm somewhat concerned about having these products on me. Especially if they are cancer producing agents. I'm a cancer survivor and I don't want to go through that again. suggestions?
Do your research and also decide what's worse, giving up hiking, risking contracting lyme disease on your next hike, or risking getting cancer someday. As for research, it's pretty easy to do with Google Scholar.
You can also check out this free book. http://www.intechopen.com/books/insecticides-pest-engineering
Chapter 4.
ChinMusic
05-03-2012, 23:21
I'm somewhat concerned about having these products on me. Especially if they are cancer producing agents. I'm a cancer survivor and I don't want to go through that again. suggestions?From my reading, permethrin is a safe chemical. I trust it.
I also know that Lyme is not something you want to get.
That's a huge relief. Thx!
I am NOT an expert but I have researched both DEET and Permethrin. Below is more information:
General:
Permethrin for clothing / gear
DEET for exposed skin
Permethrin Basics:
Clothing, shoes, bed nets, and camping gear can be treated with a pesticide called permethrin to kill or repel insects such as mosquitoes and ticks.
The U.S. Military has been using permethrin to treat combat uniforms for over 20 years to protect soldiers from diseases carried by insects. It’s very effective with ticks and misquotes.
Permethrin is the only pesticide approved by the EPA for these uses. When it is applied properly, permethrin binds tightly to the fabrics, resulting in little loss during washing and minimal transfer to the skin. Permethrin is poorly absorbed through the skin, although sunscreens and other products may increase the rate of skin absorption.
Permethrin treated clothing / gear will last UP TO 6 weeks / 6 washings. Since extensive backpacking takes an unusual toll on gear / clothing, it’s safe to predict that you’d want to treat it every 4 weeks (or more often, careful though!) for optimal effectiveness.
It is odorless and non-staining.
Do not apply permethrin to clothing while it is being worn.
Apply the products outdoors in well ventilated areas that are protected from wind.
Hang treated fabrics outdoors and allow them to dry completely before wearing them.
Permethrin breaks down with exposure to UV light (sun) – hence do NOT dry your treatments in direct sunlight.
Sprays contain 0.5% Permethrin, example:
http://www.amazon.com/DurationTM-Permethrin-0-5-Trigger-Spray/dp/B001MA2PGY
Sprays are most common to treat your clothing and gear.
You CAN buy Permethrin up towards 40% concentration (!) for making your own spray / treating clothing (soaking). However, you need to read the directions carefully and dilute it appropriately. If you use it in TOO strong of concentrations, it won’t help your cause and IS dangerous to your health.
Higher concentration example
http://www.amazon.com/36-8-Permethrin-Insecticide-Termiticide-Kennels/dp/B003IMO3I2
The military impregnates new clothing which can last up to a year (52 washings). You can NOT get this duration out of soaking your own (even new) clothing - therefore most simply spray-treat their items.
DEET Basics:
DEET is the active ingredient in many insect repellent products. It is used to repel biting pests such as mosquitoes and ticks.
Do not apply over cuts, wounds, or irritated skin.
Do not apply to hands or near eyes and mouth of young children.
Do not allow young children to apply this product.
Use just enough repellent to cover exposed skin and/or clothing.
Do not use under clothing.
Avoid over-application of this product.
After returning indoors, wash treated skin with soap and water.
Wash treated clothing before wearing it again.
Do not spray in enclosed areas.
To apply to face, spray on hands first and then rub on face. Do not spray directly onto face.
DEET comes in a variety of concentrations designed to be applied directly to the skin from 4% to 100% DEET.
The inevitable question is what concentration is best? Studies show that actually depends. BECAUSE DEET works by evaporation - to be effective, it must be applied at appropriate intervals. SO, if you are putting some on to protect you while you are at an outdoor concert, using 100% DEET once is sufficient for that event. The more complicated issue is when you are using it during hiking or extreme sweating conditions. It may be just as effective then if you use 40% every few hours. Keep in mind that you want to be concerned with over your overall health in time and not just ticks or mosquitoes for the moment.
In understanding the use of concentration consider this: 100% DEET usage for the concert above WILL effectively protect you for a minimum of 10-12 hours after application. Less percentage = less hours of effectiveness.
A Couple Additional Notes:
Current suggested methods of protecting against ticks include BOTH Permethrin and DEET.
Ticks are already spreading in record numbers on the A.T. this year. This is due to natural expansion AND is growing more so due to the warmer/wet weather. NBC and health organizations have reported on this with WARNINGS within the past 2-4 weeks. Lyme disease is expected to infect thousands of people this year.
Studies have shown DEET effective and yet ticks can crawl through active DEET to a spot unprotected and attach just fine to feed.
Ticks do NOT jump or soar off plants (or the ground). You have to make direct contact with ticks for them to get on you. It’s a good idea to understand what vegetation harbors ticks. (That’s another whole discussion, but you can Google it.)
Tucking in your clothing IS HELPFUL as ticks that get on your clothing (shoes, gear, etc.) WILL climp UP (only) to find a place to attach and feed.
Cherokee Bill
05-04-2012, 07:11
The new concern in Central Virginia is a bite from the "Lone Star" tick! Look it up on the Net!!!!!
Many folks end up with extreme allergies to: most meat, flavoring, etc. On WSET-TV at the end of last summer an Allergy Dr said he was seeing about 1/2-doz new patients a month!
My youngest son (age 42) was bitten by this tick and has the life altering allergies.
Obviously not the first year or worst year for ticks. This is a media thing as much as anything else. What i use is deet when mosquitos are around nothing when they are not. I look myself over real good twice a day. The Dog tick doesn't even spread lyme and Rockey My fever is extremely rare. With the deer tick they have to have been feeding for 24 hours before the lyme bug can be transmitted. I've been in the Ct. and Ma. woods alot for years. Including 15 years living on a farm. Never got sick from a tick bit. Only have had a couple that actually filled themselves up on me and both times it was a dog tick. Deer ticks are little and black. Dog ticks bigger brown to dark brown.
hikerboy57
05-04-2012, 07:46
i always wear light colored long pants, check myself regularly. use deet more for mosquitos when its bad, and i havent had anything melt on me yet.
I was in Minnewaska st park,NY last week, picked off 2 ticks, and i cant remember ever having picked up a tick in all my years hiking there.
rmitchell
05-04-2012, 09:08
I just finished a 70 mile section hike from Bland, VA to Hwy 613 yesterday. Around Syms Meadow, north of Perisburg is found three dog ticks in a very short span. No problems in the woods but the ticks were lurking in the tall grass.
Sarcasm the elf
05-04-2012, 09:20
From my reading, permethrin is a safe chemical. I trust it.I also know that Lyme is not something you want to get.Slight correction: Permethrin is considered safe for humans and dogs. It is highly toxic to cats and fish. I would love it if I could use the stuff, but a lot vets say that permethrin shouldn't be anywhere in a household that has cats.
Odd Man Out
05-04-2012, 09:30
I have heard that DEET is pretty nasty as well, that it can eat through certain types of clothing etc. Have you heard anything about combining the two products or is that overkill?...
What about picaridin? This is an alternative to DEET that is supposedly nearly as effective, but is odorless and will not damage synthetic fibers. Anyone know if it have been tested against ticks?
http://equipped.outdoors.org/2009/06/picaridin-vs-deet-face-off-of-buzzer.html
Moose2001
05-04-2012, 09:33
IMHO, the best tick prevention is a good tick check each evening. Ticks must be attached to you for at least 24 hours before the transfer of the lyme causing material begins. If you're checking yourself every evening, you can find the ticks before they cause problems. I look at every dark spot on my body. You'll be surprised how small some of the ticks can be. I take my fingernail and scrape anything dark. If it's a tick, it will move slightly as you scrape it.
As in most things, some common sense can prevent problems.
What about picaridin? This is an alternative to DEET that is supposedly nearly as effective, but is odorless and will not damage synthetic fibers. Anyone know if it have been tested against ticks?
http://equipped.outdoors.org/2009/06/picaridin-vs-deet-face-off-of-buzzer.html
Hmmm, I'm looking into this now.
What I look at specifically:
1. Chemical fact sheets (toxicity reports, environmental data, effectiveness)
2. Field use studies (both here and abroad)
3. Independent user reviews
My initial understanding:
1. Much safer to clothing and gear
2. Effectiveness to certain mosquitoes in question (which means certain insects are not affected at all)
3. What concentrations to use, and effectiveness
4. Bi-polar reviews (this might be a body chemistry issue?)
5. Reports of skin irritations are very low
My thoughts:
IF this chemical can replace DEET, that's probably a good thing.
As with DEET, what really concerns me is the concentration level coupled with the amount of re-applications necessary to be effective for strenuous hiking.
This chemical like DEET works to deter an insect from staying on you in areas treated (skin, gear, etc.). Picaridin simply masks chemical signals from your body which doesn't enable the insect to know you are food.
I'll read more into this but with at rough glance, Picaridin may be a good replacement choice to DEET.
NOTE:
Permethrin is recommended for clothing and gear, which is highly effective against ticks. Picaridin or DEET would be recommended for skin applications.
Thank you so much for this info!
stranger
05-06-2012, 01:09
I believe the best method for avoiding Lyme Disease is prevention, if you are really concerned about it I would wear long pants and treat your shoes, socks, pants and gaiters with Pemethrin, I think it would be extremely unlikely to pick up a tick wearing pants treated with Pemethrin.
As for tick checks, ticks go for warm areas, armpits, croch, head, etc... Tick checks are highly ineffective as far as I'm concerned, I wouldn't rely on a tick check as effective unless someone is going to go over you with a fine tooth comb...being realistic, keep the damn things off you, Pemethrin is the BEST thing out there right now.
People talk about going natural, no chemicals...oh yeah, well Lyme Disease is natural...you wanna play with that!
My father had Lyme for years...I don't think twice about Pemethrin, Lyme is a nightmare if you don't catch it early.
MuddyWaters
05-06-2012, 07:18
Deet will melt and mar a lot of plastics, take paint off things, etc. Never had an issue on fabric, but probably not good for it.
Just treat all your clothes and hat with permethrin, including shoes and socks
Wear tight fitting compression underwear prevents access to the nether-regions
apply some kind of repellent to exposed skin on arms/legs , really doesnt matter what, they all work to some extent.
No worries
During last year's thru-hike I treated my clothes with Permethrin every 4 weeks. Checked for ticks every night, never saw one on me, never had a rash, still got Lyme disease. Know the symptoms and get treatment ASAP.
stranger
05-25-2012, 08:04
During last year's thru-hike I treated my clothes with Permethrin every 4 weeks. Checked for ticks every night, never saw one on me, never had a rash, still got Lyme disease. Know the symptoms and get treatment ASAP.
Exactly...tick checks don't work, most people who get Lyme never see the tick. Sorry to hear you got Lyme hope all is well now. How did you know and what treatment did you seek?
I got real sick with flu like symptoms. Weakness, aching, fever.
Took 21 days of 100mg Doxycycline. I had a weeks worth of Doxy with me, prescribed by my Dr. and had a prescription for the rest sent to the next town.
I got real sick with flu like symptoms. Weakness, aching, fever.
Took 21 days of 100mg Doxycycline. I had a weeks worth of Doxy with me, prescribed by my Dr. and had a prescription for the rest sent to the next town.
Don, then I take it you were fine following the meds?
ChinMusic
05-25-2012, 13:54
Exactly...tick checks don't work, most people who get Lyme never see the tick.
That would be my guess too. These ticks are just so damn small. If they were the size of dog ticks you would have a fighting chance.
Migrating Bird
05-25-2012, 21:05
I live in an area with a lot of deer ticks. I have found 3 imbedded in me this year so far. I don't think this year is worse than years past only that due to the mild winter they have been active for much longer. It is my opinion that the only safe way to remove a tick is with this http://www.otom.com/tick-removal-questions#agressertique I just removed one from my dog just now with this tool. You have to be careful as when you remove them they a still alive. I would never let anyone use tweezers to remove a tick as this just squeezes the guts into the wound, or scrape it off with a knife as the mouth parts remain in the skin. Deer ticks are small when they first attach but swell to the size of a pea when fully engorged with the hosts blood.
I carry both the large and small OTOM.
I do not walk thru tall grass.
I avoid overhanging brush because deer and other large animals give ticks a ride up into branches like that.
I really appreciate the high quality information in this thread about using chemicals, although I personally do not use chemicals except the time I wore flea and tick collars at my ankles over my pants.
I am aware about how really bad it is to contract Lyme's Disease and Rocky Mountain Spotted Fever from ticks. It is the first I heard about that disease mentioned from "The Lone Star" tick in Central Virginia. That ranks right up there with really bad disease.
I have never had a tick. I wear loose-fit bicycle tights, elastic gaiters (like simBLISSity if biting flys), long sleeves, mock turtleneck shirts, and hats that cover my neck if I am in tick country in tick season.
I also have sensitive skin sensation, so much so, I felt a leech touch me in the water, once, in Alabama. I brushed it off. The leech did not get a chance to attach.
I think the clothing I choose to wear for hiking, as well as, avoiding high risk helps.
lostinfflood
05-26-2012, 04:56
Woods ticks are bad in NJ now. Did an hour hike yesterday I had 10 crawling on me. So far, for whatever reason, deer ticks have not been real bad yet. Two years ago my dog presented with anaplasmosis. This is caused by the bacterium Anaplasma phagocytophilum which is carried by the deer tick. People ask me if I'm concerned about bears when I hike. I tell them I'm mored concerned with deer ticks.
Old Hillwalker
05-26-2012, 05:47
Until I became a legal nomad a year or so ago I worked as an AT Corridor Monitor and Monitor Coordinator for about five years. Consequently I spent several days a week bushwhacking along beside the trail treadway inspecting and maintaining the survey lines for the AT Corridor in NH and VT. During that time I always treated my clothing with Permathrin every four weeks or so. Many times while walking through high grass and weeds I wiould see ticks clinging to grass tips waving their front legs in what is called "questing behavior", but never had any attach themselves to my clothing during my travels.On occasion I would not wear my treated clothing, and then would usually find one or two on my trousers after walking through swampy areas.My biggest problem was, since I am a widower and live alone, self-checking for ticks. Even at home with a dressing mirror it is nearly impossible to identify and remove an embedded tick. On the trail alone it is impossible to examine the reverse side of the human coin.So, here is my testimony that Permethrin does indeed work. Now, for long term effects on the body; at 72 I don't give a hoot.
Greystroke
05-26-2012, 07:37
Just finished a 105 mile hike from Eckville Shelter (PA) to High Point State Park NJ. Never seen so many ticks. They are everywhere, but some places are worse than others. There's a 2 mile stretch of grassy trail immediately north of Lehigh Gap that is heavily infested. Picked 28 ticks off my boots and lower legs as I passed through there. Picked off another couple of dozen sporadically during the rest of the hike, including two on the back of my neck. Fortunately, I got them all before they latched on.
I avoid putting chemicals on my skin and used frequent inspections to thwart them.
Something to try that has worked every time for me is to use dish soap and a cotton ball.....put the dish soap on the cotton ball and place on tick on your body......let stay for about 20 seconds or so...tick will back out and get stuck in cotton....has worked every time. I always carry a small plastic bottle of dish soap....about same size as small bottle of hand sanitizer...and some cotton balls.....plus I always soak my clothes in permethrin...cheers.
ChinMusic
05-26-2012, 12:37
Something to try that has worked every time for me is to use dish soap and a cotton ball.....put the dish soap on the cotton ball and place on tick on your body......let stay for about 20 seconds or so...tick will back out and get stuck in cotton....has worked every time.
This is NOT a recommended method and has been addressed to the CDC. I am not telling you not to do it. That is your choice. I am only posting so that others do not think this is a recommended method.
Speer Carrier
05-26-2012, 13:44
Slight correction: Permethrin is considered safe for humans and dogs. It is highly toxic to cats and fish. I would love it if I could use the stuff, but a lot vets say that permethrin shouldn't be anywhere in a household that has cats.
I think the label on the permethrin says it's only toxic to cats in it's wet state, but not after it has dried on one's clothes. Can anyone verify that?
ChinMusic
05-26-2012, 13:53
I think the label on the permethrin says it's only toxic to cats in it's wet state, but not after it has dried on one's clothes. Can anyone verify that?
Yes, you are correct. In the dry state cats are safe.
stranger
05-27-2012, 00:11
Just finished a 105 mile hike from Eckville Shelter (PA) to High Point State Park NJ. Never seen so many ticks. They are everywhere, but some places are worse than others. There's a 2 mile stretch of grassy trail immediately north of Lehigh Gap that is heavily infested. Picked 28 ticks off my boots and lower legs as I passed through there. Picked off another couple of dozen sporadically during the rest of the hike, including two on the back of my neck. Fortunately, I got them all before they latched on.
I avoid putting chemicals on my skin and used frequent inspections to thwart them.
Those are just the ticks you found...keep alert the next 3 months for symptoms.
stranger
05-27-2012, 00:15
Sorry...perhaps I'm just paranoid...be alert just in case I meant
Went hiking last weekend in Havelock, NC--Neusiok Trail. (finished the second half, btw) Ticks were HORRIBLE!! In the first several hours on the trail my granddaughter and I probably flicked off 25 or more. Then at camp we pulled of more that had made their way under our clothes, big ones. I had an especially bad case of them around my ankles. Teeny, tiny ones. We had only sprayed ourselves with Outer Banks Skeeter Beater (no Deet) which worked well repelling everything else. The next morning we used Sportsman Off 98% deet and had FAR less problem.
Since then I've developed tick bite granulomas everywhere a tick bit me. My ankles look like hell and still itch like fresh mosquito bites do. I will be using permethin on my clothes and deet on my skin from now on for sure!
dale1627
05-28-2012, 22:36
I spent about two years in Havelock and never heard of that trail. I spent quite a bit of time fishing from a kayak in that area however. I may try to get down there this fall and hike the trail. I need a good reason to go down and visit a few friends that are still in the area.
Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk
Wise Old Owl
05-28-2012, 22:55
All pesticides sold or distributed in the Unites States must be registered by the Environmental Protection Agency (EPA), based on scientific studies showing that they can be used without posing unreasonable risks to people or the environment.
Additionally, the Agency classified permethrin as “Likely to be Carcinogenic to Humans” by the oral route. (you would have to drink it) This classification was based on two reproducible benign tumor types (lung and liver) in the mouse, equivocal evidence of carcinogenicity in Long- Evans rats, and supporting structural activity relationship information.
Risk/Benefit Balance Analysis
The Agency also assessed the significance of permethrin use, and conducted a risk/benefit balancing analysis. Given the significance of the use of permethrin and the mitigated nature of the risks of permethrin, the Agency believes, on balance, that the benefits of permethrin outweigh the risks. With respect to the ecological risks, the Agency has reduced those risks by imposing various conditions that should reduce exposure of aquatic species to permethrin.
For the public health use, permethrin is the most widely used mosquito adulticide in the United States because of its low cost, high efficacy, and low incidence of pest resistance. Although permethrin alternatives are comparably priced and are likely to be as effective as permethrin in many situations, they are not likely to universally substitute for all permethrin uses because of labeling constraints or resistance concerns. The Agency believes that the loss of permethrin would adversely affect the ability of mosquito abatement professionals to control mosquitoes in some situation, such as agricultural-urban interface and areas with known resistance to alternatives. With regard to the treatment of fabrics, permethrin is the only pesticide registered to pre-treat fabrics
Re Permethrin treatment: Tucking long pants into socks is extra insurance that the ticks don't get under your pants legs to feed (I hear that they like the spot behind the knees, as well as higher up :o).
In hotter weather, bug pants or a complete suit is cooler, though it's surprising how much heat mosquito netting holds in while you're hiking. Wearing a tee shirt under the mesh will keep the mesh from chewing up your shoulders under the shoulder straps.
As I mentioned in another thread, if you're handy with a sewing machine and have zip off pants legs, you can replicate the legs in mosquito netting if you can find a matching zipper. It should be much easier to use the bathroom if you don't have to pull down two sets of pants (and for guys, I haven't found bug pants with a fly in them yet).
stranger
05-29-2012, 01:10
Montbell makes 2.8 ounce wind pants, seems to make more sense than mosquito netting (serve other purposes). Spray those with Pemethrin, tuck them into treated gaiters, then spray socks and shoes...would be very unlikely to get a tick - in theory!
Montbell makes 2.8 ounce wind pants, seems to make more sense than mosquito netting (serve other purposes). Spray those with Pemethrin, tuck them into treated gaiters, then spray socks and shoes...would be very unlikely to get a tick - in theory!
Sure, but at 59 degrees [Fahrenheit] that might work, maybe. However if it's 61+ degrees, I might pass out and die from heat exhaustion.
Seriously, pants or net suit can be unbearable in a day of normal heat.
coach lou
05-29-2012, 08:34
Picked up 3 in the grass along the Housatonic, they were in my socks. My stepdaughter had 1 in her belt line, just starting to bite her, when she found it.
I was a Tick Virgin until my April hike this year.
A day after leaving the trail at the James River Footbridge, in Virginia, during my first bath at a motel, I found a tick embedded in the top of my left thigh.
EEEEK!
It hadn't fed yet (no blood in the abdomen) I pulled it out and seemed to get it all.
I've been watching for any signs complications and I did save the tick on a piece of tape (internet said it might be useful if I have complications). So far so good.
I know I could get tests to be sure, but my policy is to stay as far away from the medical complex as possible, so I'm watching.
So far so good.
Sacchoromyces
05-29-2012, 21:47
Treated gaiters over treated NoSeeUm leggings. For cryin'-out-loud: get a damn hammock and quit sleepin' on the damn ground like a dog. Ticks are on the ground (mostly). Quit sleepin' down there wit-'em.
ChinMusic
05-29-2012, 21:53
Don't know if anyone was playin', but if you had 51 you are a winner.
David S.
06-15-2012, 06:25
Along the Cumberland Trail - Rock Creek section last week, I picked off 32 ticks in less than 2 miles of walking. In camp, I picked off 3 more that I had missed. One had embedded in my armpit. They are the worst I've seen this year. Definitely going to try the long pants tucked into socks and the permethrin stuff.
Ticks started to show up around Atkins, Mile 530, you drop out of the Mts and into long grassy feilds. I was picking one to two ticks a day off my body up to mile 760 when I had to leave the trail to a medical issue. I read some where the other day that about a dozen hikers have Lymes......
Don, then I take it you were fine following the meds?
Yea, I don't have any symptoms almost a year afterwards. I think taking antibiotics so soon after the onset of symptoms did the trick.
Ticks are extremely bad this year.
The truth about ticks. Nothing works! Starting in mid-May it rains ticks from the trees. Most just land on you or crawl up your legs. They are just wandering about looking for your warm body. You can't drive them off with a chemical like flying insects. Best you can do is look for them and pick them off. Stop listening to drug company salesmnship.
Snowleopard
06-15-2012, 11:58
The truth about ticks. Nothing works! Starting in mid-May it rains ticks from the trees. Most just land on you or crawl up your legs. They are just wandering about looking for your warm body. You can't drive them off with a chemical like flying insects. Best you can do is look for them and pick them off. Stop listening to drug company salesmnship.
A permethrin treated hat would probably help with trees raining ticks. The military recommends not treating the head band of the hat (too much exposure to the permethrin for the benefit gained). Long pants treated with permethrin would help with ticks crawling up your legs, especially if you treat the tops of your socks and tuck your pants into the socks or use treated gaiters. This would be pretty hot in the south in summer.
Are these ticks raining off trees deer ticks or dog ticks? Deer ticks carry Lyme and other ticks don't, but the other ticks carry other serious diseases.
A permethrin treated hat would probably help with trees raining ticks. The military recommends not treating the head band of the hat (too much exposure to the permethrin for the benefit gained). Long pants treated with permethrin would help with ticks crawling up your legs, especially if you treat the tops of your socks and tuck your pants into the socks or use treated gaiters. This would be pretty hot in the south in summer.
Are these ticks raining off trees deer ticks or dog ticks? Deer ticks carry Lyme and other ticks don't, but the other ticks carry other serious diseases.
I'm not sure I understand this? My understanding is ticks don't jump, fly, leap, float or any of that supertick behavior. They may fall (?) but I don't believe that is strategic placement on their part.
Creek Dancer
06-15-2012, 15:07
Are you saying that the whole "heat-seeking tick" thing where they leap out of trees onto living things is just a myth??
What about that story that a thousand ticks will build up into a little ball on the end of a weed, ready to jump/explode out into the air if you brush up against them?
I used to work out in the woods, and would use DEET and a thorough tick check at night (with a partner), and still find 5 to 8 of them burrowed in. I do think you're safe if you get them off before too many hours have passed, but I don't know how you can check for them completely without a good light and an intimate partner helping you out (especially since they go for where my bra strap crosses my back). I'm going to add permethrin to my arsenal after reading this.
As for removing them, there are a lot of fun ways to play with a tick that has latched onto your skin (matches, duct tape, cotton balls with soap, etc.), but that's all for if you want to have fun with the critters while extending the length of time of your exposure to them. I prefer the CDC method (though I do soak the area with rubbing alcohol before AND after pulling it out with tweezers).
Wise Old Owl
06-18-2012, 07:20
Hi...
I've read posts in which either one will work (NOT verified by me). CAUTION: if you should decide on DEET...that stuff will dissolve paint...!! (I can personally verify that).
Light concentrated Deet not 100% is for your skin - Permethrin is for your clothing.
Wise Old Owl
06-18-2012, 07:30
IMHO, the best tick prevention is a good tick check each evening. Ticks must be attached to you for at least 24 hours before the transfer of the lyme causing material begins. If you're checking yourself every evening, you can find the ticks before they cause problems. I look at every dark spot on my body. You'll be surprised how small some of the ticks can be. I take my fingernail and scrape anything dark. If it's a tick, it will move slightly as you scrape it.
As in most things, some common sense can prevent problems.
Just finished a 105 mile hike from Eckville Shelter (PA) to High Point State Park NJ. Never seen so many ticks. They are everywhere, but some places are worse than others. There's a 2 mile stretch of grassy trail immediately north of Lehigh Gap that is heavily infested. Picked 28 ticks off my boots and lower legs as I passed through there. Picked off another couple of dozen sporadically during the rest of the hike, including two on the back of my neck. Fortunately, I got them all before they latched on.
I avoid putting chemicals on my skin and used frequent inspections to thwart them.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cpwAwEUQqgA/Tft1CRllRmI/AAAAAAAAAUU/mrcWvedna8E/s1600/DeerTickFinger.jpgYour abillity to find a deer tick by doing a body check is the least effective meathod of avoiding Lyme and Rocky Mountain Fever.
Ticks do not rain from trees - Birds eat most ticks when they can find them, rarley one tick will get a ride from a bird, they are mostly transfered from mice and other mammals. In all my years of dealing with ticks only once did one "carried by a 15mph wind" unexplainably land on my head after leaving teh car. A good ball cap is a good way to keep them out of your hair. You do not need to treat a ball cap. Most crawl up the body to find their way to crotch areas and the thin skin of the scalp. They do climb to a rarley seen tick ball on tall grass waiting for the next mammal to brush past. To say nothing works is a lack of understanding that scientists have been working on this for years and have made good progress to reducing the problem, provided that you follow directions.
Chicken Feathers
06-18-2012, 11:53
Went hiking last weekend in Havelock, NC--Neusiok Trail. (finished the second half, btw) Ticks were HORRIBLE!! In the first several hours on the trail my granddaughter and I probably flicked off 25 or more. Then at camp we pulled of more that had made their way under our clothes, big ones. I had an especially bad case of them around my ankles. Teeny, tiny ones. We had only sprayed ourselves with Outer Banks Skeeter Beater (no Deet) which worked well repelling everything else. The next morning we used Sportsman Off 98% deet and had FAR less problem.
Since then I've developed tick bite granulomas everywhere a tick bit me. My ankles look like hell and still itch like fresh mosquito bites do. I will be using permethin on my clothes and deet on my skin from now on for sure!
You are wasting your money on Permathim sprayed on hiking clothes the weave is to tight for permathim to penetrate works on cotton clothes.
coach lou
06-18-2012, 12:15
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-cpwAwEUQqgA/Tft1CRllRmI/AAAAAAAAAUU/mrcWvedna8E/s1600/DeerTickFinger.jpgYour abillity to find a deer tick by doing a body check is the least effective meathod of avoiding Lyme and Rocky Mountain Fever.
Ticks do not rain from trees - Birds eat most ticks when they can find them, rarley one tick will get a ride from a bird, they are mostly transfered from mice and other mammals. In all my years of dealing with ticks only once did one "carried by a 15mph wind" unexplainably land on my head after leaving teh car. A good ball cap is a good way to keep them out of your hair. You do not need to treat a ball cap. Most crawl up the body to find their way to crotch areas and the thin skin of the scalp. They do climb to a rarley seen tick ball on tall grass waiting for the next mammal to brush past. To say nothing works is a lack of understanding that scientists have been working on this for years and have made good progress to reducing the problem, provided that you follow directions.
This picture skeeves me out! Just the thought of these little monsters on me..............I'd rather wear a porkchop in Glacier Park.
ChinMusic
06-18-2012, 12:30
You are wasting your money on Permathim sprayed on hiking clothes the weave is to tight for permathim to penetrate works on cotton clothes.
BS
There is nothing special about my hiking clothes. Permethrin works like a charm.
You got any studies go back up your declaration?
I encountered ticks from damascas VA to Monson ME they are every where this year, i used deet and daily inspection of body and clothing that's what got me thru.:dance
What about picaridin? This is an alternative to DEET that is supposedly nearly as effective, but is odorless and will not damage synthetic fibers. Anyone know if it have been tested against ticks?
http://equipped.outdoors.org/2009/06/picaridin-vs-deet-face-off-of-buzzer.html
Picaridin is not effective against ticks!
http://www.ct.gov/caes/lib/caes/documents/publications/fact_sheets/tickbiteprevention05.pdf