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View Full Version : Fairly certain this will be one of the dumbest questions you've ever seen



Finn&Fionna
05-04-2012, 08:15
I'm looking at stove/fuel sources, and it seems the msr isopro is a pretty popular one. the reviews I'm seeing say the 4oz canister will last a day or 2 for just cooking. Is this the norm? How long does it take to boil/cook a meal? (that's not the dumb question)

The dumb part is I was thinking about packing a couple of those little fuel thingies you see under chaffing dishes at catering events. a 7oz can lasts 3-5 hours (depending how intense you want the flame), which seems like more than enough time to boil water and cook meals for a few days. The whole msr set looks to weigh about 8oz plus the 2-3 cans I would have to carry to get through the week. just bringing 2 7oz (quantity not weight) chafing heaters with a wire contraption I can build myself for a stove top would last me all week would weigh the same or less but take up A LOT less room.

What am I missing? the only thing I can think of is even at high heat flame you won't get enough heat to cook very quickly. has anyone else thought of this, or is it too dumb to even think about?

Finn&Fionna
05-04-2012, 08:18
To add something real quick, (I just found) the 9.7oz chafing fuels last 3 hours for high heat, 6 hours for standard, and 8 hours for low heat (adjust wick length).

They also cost $15 for a 6 pack.

flemdawg1
05-04-2012, 08:26
Actually a 4oz Isopro (or any butane canister) will last around a week. Don't bother with the Sterno stuff.

Finn&Fionna
05-04-2012, 08:28
In the process of crunching numbers, even if canisters only lasted a day or 2, seems liquid is the way to go for me. may be a little heavier, but seems more reliable if I pack some flashing. will completely ignore the chafing fuels, seems silly now.

Do I get bonus points for thinking outside the box though?

flemdawg1
05-04-2012, 08:37
In the process of crunching numbers, even if canisters only lasted a day or 2, seems liquid is the way to go for me. may be a little heavier, but seems more reliable if I pack some flashing. will completely ignore the chafing fuels, seems silly now.

Do I get bonus points for thinking outside the box though?

Here's a website that'll help guide you in your stove choice.
http://zenstoves.net/StoveChoices.htm

Most thru hikers use alcohol or butane canisters, followed then by white gas.

garlic08
05-04-2012, 08:54
Another good article is here: http://www.pmags.com/stove-comparison-real-world-use (beat you to it, Mags). I like the article because it addresses the stoveless option, which is really thinking outside the box.

hikerboy57
05-04-2012, 09:05
there is no box.

Odd Man Out
05-04-2012, 09:11
... the only thing I can think of is even at high heat flame you won't get enough heat to cook very quickly. has anyone else thought of this, or is it too dumb to even think about?

You figured it out yourself! Questions about these Sterno canisters come up fairly often here and the answer is always the same. They don't produce enough heat to cook on. They are designed to keep food warm and if I think back to a lot of the buffet lines I have eaten at, they don't do that very well either.

Tom Murphy
05-04-2012, 09:42
Hey Finn, keep posting these ideas and don't get discourage.

If you do a search on gear lists, you will quickly see what the norms are and there are lots of good reasons for those norms.

I hope you will view the following advice as constructive criticism, you need to do a few 4-5 day backpacking trips where the objective is mileage as opposed to camping or enjoying the wilderness. The ideas of sterno or fishing/foraging for food wouldn't survive a single backpacking trip where to objective was to cover miles.

Based on your questions so far, I think you would be better serviced to consider something like the Long Trail, ~ 280 miles, 4-6 weeks.

Good Luck.

fiddlehead
05-04-2012, 09:57
"Fairly certain this will be one of the dumbest questions you've ever seen"
Not even close to the dumbest question.
From what I remember, that would be the time someone asked if she should be treating the water that she is washing her underwear in.

Sorry for the thread-drift but I must say I was expecting something worse.

Rocket Jones
05-04-2012, 10:46
Do I get bonus points for thinking outside the box though?

I'd like to point out that your statement about thinking outside the box is, itself, within a box. ;)

waasj
05-04-2012, 11:01
And what was the answer??
"Fairly certain this will be one of the dumbest questions you've ever seen"


Not even close to the dumbest question.
From what I remember, that would be the time someone asked if she should be treating the water that she is washing her underwear in.

Sorry for the thread-drift but I must say I was expecting something worse.

bigcranky
05-04-2012, 11:55
Hey, Finn,

Yeah, ignore the sterno things. Not useful. A canister stove like the MSR Pocket Rocket or the Snow Peak stoves work very well. They are fast, efficient, and the small canisters last 4-8 days depending on time of year (we cook more hot meals and drinks in the winter.) However, a more "green" alternative is a homemade alcohol stove. They are slower, but fairly efficient, and you don't throw away the fuel container every time.

Has someone pointed you to this AT hiking gear list (http://www.backpacker.com/november_08_pack_man_/articles/12659?page=4)? I think if you were to open up the packs of various experienced long distance hikers on the AT, you'd find a lot of very similar choices in gear and clothing. Not all exactly the same, but similar enough that you can start to make a decent list, like the one linked above.

Veetack
05-04-2012, 15:38
Just built the Supercat stove today. Cost me a whopping 60 cents and weighs virtually nothing. spent another 3 dollars on 24 oz of Heet, and I'm gonna test it tonight. I'll let you know how it holds up.

T-Rx
05-04-2012, 16:31
Lots of different options as far as stoves go and the debate on WB is never ending as to which system is best. Alcohol stoves and isopro stoves are probably the most frequently used options. It is a balance between cost, weight, heating efficiency and fuel availability. Try some different options and see which you like best. I personally use the MSR pocket rocket. It is simple and fast but it may not be your preference. Have fun and HYOH!

Finn&Fionna
05-04-2012, 16:41
Wow, woke up to lots of answers. Yeah I have assembled a pretty comprehensive gear list already, but being that its barely May, I figure I have some time to tinker with it. I've gone so far as to list individual toiletries not just writing "bag of toiletries 8oz". Even counting exact quantities of pills for my med kit. I'm sort of picking and choosing the parts I like best out of different gear lists, re-calculating weight, removing items, starting again and so on. I think I'm at a point now where I can make a list of items to experiment with (hence the sterno question). I was reading the dirtbagging article on the home page and it gave me a few ideas.

I actually considered the stoveless option before, and would prefer it honestly (I'm fairly proficient at building a fire in most temperatures weather conditions and and altitudes) but from a few articles I found on the google-net it seems stoveless CAN be frowned upon due to the leave no trace ideal. I think I'll pick up a white gas stove if I can find one on the cheap at a swap meet or after this season ends, or if that's not possible I'll go with an alcohol soda can stove. my pace in the beginning will be pretty slow til we (especially my wife) get our trail legs, so I can afford to spend a little extra time cooking and boiling while she rests her tired feet.

I've done a little backpacking before, but I think the farthest was around 7 miles in a day, and we had much heavier packs on. Now I'm out here in Hawaii (PA native), I'll do my best to find a length of land long enough to get some good practice miles on. I should be home in january to do some cold weather hikes in between snowstorms, and the greater availability of hills and mountains will be great. That's when I'll be breaking in my "for certain" gear (tent, shoes, pack, bag etc) and hopefully tinker with a few other ideas.

Thanks again for all the help guys. tons of articles I hadn't found yet (and a few I had).

HeartFire
05-04-2012, 16:47
a 4oz canister with a jetboil stove - boiling water twice a day - breakfast and dinner will last me 10 - 14 days.

Finn&Fionna
05-04-2012, 16:57
to add:
when I find comprehensive gear lists, or youtube videos of people's gear, or see guide videos on what to bring, it seems almost everyone has their specific brand they really like. I'm assuming most people outfit themselves fresh from REI or whathaveyou, but I don't think that's necessary because I have a lot of stuff already, and I'd rather shop around and get good deals than make sure its all pretty and matches. Specific examples are stuff sacks and wool caps from REI or other outfitters. who in the world DOESN'T have these things lying around the house? granted waterproof stuff sack may be harder to find, but I'm sure i have a few in my old camping gear that'll work. I'm not sure if they're waterproof, but I can just put a little baby garbage bag in there to keep my stuff dry, and dry out the sack when i need to. yeah now I end up with 4 garbage bags on my list, but I gotta bring em anyway. and trekking poles, I think the ones I have are heavier, but they're also really sturdy and free. I've seen a few trailjournals where people mention breaking or bending their poles, so I'm good with opting for the slightly heavier ski poles. things like that.

peakbagger
05-04-2012, 17:02
One a section hike we met another person heading south. He had a standard propane bottle with burner and was complaining about the weight. He saw my pocket rocket and decided he needed one of them. He asked me how long a cannister lasted, I told him 10 days. We were jumping around the trail and ran into him a week after with his new stove, he was out of fuel and was wondering why. It turned out he was cooking beans and rice and was simmering the rice for 20 minutes. We suggested he adjust his menu to items that didnt require long cook times. I arranged to leave a cylinder under my my car tire at the next road crossing and when we met him a wekk or so later he was up to five days.

JUST REMEMBER "YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY"

Mags
05-04-2012, 17:35
I actually considered the stoveless option before, and would prefer it honestly (I'm fairly proficient at building a fire in most temperatures weather conditions and and altitudes) but from a few articles I found on the google-net it seems stoveless CAN be frowned upon due to the leave no trace ideal. I

Just as a heads up, going stoveless does not mean campfire cooking. It means eating food that has re-hydrated with just water (i.e. no cooking) or just eating cold (tortillas, cheese, salami and so on).

Cous cous, dehydrated bean and hummus, mashed potato flakes all "cook" with just water quite nicely. Tortilla wraps are wonderful with almost any meal.

The advantage of going stoveless means less logistics, no futz factor and just plain simplicity. In hot weather it is very nice because, well, who wants to eat a hot meal on as muggy and hot day in the Virginia mountains? Conversely, when others are getting cold and wet futzing with a stove, you can be snug in your sleeping bag having a meal. It is not for everyone, but it does have its uses.

Garlic has always advocated going stoveless to me. When I did a stretch of the AZT with Garlic, I used this section hike as a chance to experiment with going stoveless. Loved it. Not just on longer hikes now, but any solo hike I do including weekends. (Generally speaking when I go with others, there is more time in camp than when going by myself. So I take a stove for a hot drink at night, morning coffee and so on).

It is another great tool to tuck in the hiker tool kit. Mind you, I am a VERY BIG COFFEE DRINKER as well and I just give up coffee on solo backpacking trips. Garlic is still amazed. ;) (If you stay with Garlic and his wife GP, bring some coffee. :D )

jeffmeh
05-04-2012, 17:42
I used white gas stoves for years as I was cooking for groups. They are great for that purpose, and your best bet in winter conditions. That said, I would not even consider one for a thru-hike on the AT where canisters and alcohol are readily available. The weight penalty is too great for me.

Now, if I am out with buddies for a few days and we want to do some serious feasting, white gas it is, but under those circumstances I am not really considering weight.

Finn&Fionna
05-07-2012, 12:52
yeah after checking out some how-to's on youtube I've decided to go with the double-walled soda can stove with some aluminum foil folded over a few times to make a wind screen. I think I can carry a 20oz soda bottle full of alcohol, screen and stove for a total weight of about 18oz, and I can use that much alcohol for a good 20 days (assuming a few days of no cooking). plus it's cheap.

jeffmeh
05-07-2012, 13:05
Sounds like a plan. You can carry a smaller fuel bottle with the availability of alcohol resupply along the AT.

pyroman53
05-07-2012, 20:56
Mind you, I am a VERY BIG COFFEE DRINKER as well and I just give up coffee on solo backpacking trips. Garlic is still amazed. ;) (If you stay with Garlic and his wife GP, bring some coffee. :D )

I've found those tea bag type coffee servings work well if you put a couple in a water bottle overnight. By morning, you'll at least have some decent tasting iced coffee. Not hot, but still providing that eye-opening taste we've become so addicted to. Works for me.

I'm REAL close to leaving my stove and pot at home...I gotta get used to the idea that I'm going hiking and not camping!!

SunnyWalker
05-07-2012, 21:52
Good questions here. However, listen to those with experience. Save yourself some grief and postage and leave the Sterno type products at home. You will not use them they work real slow and just is the wrong thing in the wrong place. They belong in the buffet line at a restaurant.

bigcranky
05-07-2012, 22:24
I've found those tea bag type coffee servings work well if you put a couple in a water bottle overnight.

That will work.

I just this afternoon tried one of the Starbucks Via instant coffee packets, which has coffee and a little sugar and makes 16 ounces of "iced coffee." I mixed it in one of my 1-liter water bottles filled about half full with cool tap water. It seemed a little weak, so maybe I put in too much water, but overall not bad. Kind of like an iced Americano in flavor. Expensive, though, but probably worth it for me for section and weekend hikes.

FarmRookie 2015
05-08-2012, 16:00
"Fairly certain this will be one of the dumbest questions you've ever seen"


Not even close to the dumbest question.
From what I remember, that would be the time someone asked if she should be treating the water that she is washing her underwear in.


Was she going to drink it after?

garlic08
05-08-2012, 16:12
yeah after checking out some how-to's on youtube I've decided to go with the double-walled soda can stove with some aluminum foil folded over a few times to make a wind screen. I think I can carry a 20oz soda bottle full of alcohol, screen and stove for a total weight of about 18oz, and I can use that much alcohol for a good 20 days (assuming a few days of no cooking). plus it's cheap.

Jeffmeh has a good point. If you go the alky route, bear in mind that many hikers say that if you carry more than 8 or 10 oz of alcohol at at time, you may be better off with white gas. Alky stoves are best for a quick boil (optimally near-boil, to avoid the delta H of vaporization for chemistry majors) once a day, using 1/2 oz or so of fuel per day per person. Alky does not have the energy density of gas and the extra fuel you carry can overcome the weight advantage of the tiny stove.

swammie
05-08-2012, 16:44
One a section hike we met another person heading south. He had a standard propane bottle with burner and was complaining about the weight. He saw my pocket rocket and decided he needed one of them. He asked me how long a cannister lasted, I told him 10 days. We were jumping around the trail and ran into him a week after with his new stove, he was out of fuel and was wondering why. It turned out he was cooking beans and rice and was simmering the rice for 20 minutes. We suggested he adjust his menu to items that didnt require long cook times. I arranged to leave a cylinder under my my car tire at the next road crossing and when we met him a wekk or so later he was up to five days.

JUST REMEMBER "YOUR MILEAGE MAY VARY"

That's exactly why I'm testing all this new-found AT knowledge in my backyard BEFORE I head out. I've got a nice 1/2 acre testing site with an easy means back to the real world should I learn any tough lessons.

Finn&Fionna
05-08-2012, 16:46
it was more of a cost thingfor carrying a whole bottle. i haven't figured the cost of a alcohol on the trail yet, but if its super cheap ill carry less.i also figured since itll be in a soda bottle, that empty space in the bottle is no worthless, might as well use it. I won't be cooking enough to justify a a gas stove

jeffmeh
05-08-2012, 16:55
Thanks Garlic. To the OP, if you read Mags' article earlier in this thread, if you carry more than about 10 oz. of fuel your weight advantage over a canister stove disappears. I wouldn't sweat 12 oz. or so, but like anything else it doesn't pay to carry more than is needed plus a bit of contingency.