View Full Version : Alternative to Deet: Makes me nauseous
I will be spraying clothes & gear with Permethrin. Earlier this week I opened up my bottle of Repell 100 Insect Repellent (98.11% DEET) and sprayed it on a napkin to see what it smelled liked. I got nauseous. I decided to test it this morning and I sprayed it once on my forearm and rubbed it in. I'm nauseous. This stuff isn't going to work for me. Any suggestions? Thx.
The smell of deet is pretty much the same but might be a little less potent if you get some with about 30% deet content. I use the 100% and have seen it cause a rash on some people. I would suppose you could dilute it a little but not sure if that would help the smell very much.
There is also the eucalyptus stuff that has a totally different oder but it has never seemed to work very well for me.
Good Luck.
Stink Bug
05-10-2012, 10:28
I've had good results with Off! Botanicals. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GCXNDY/ref=asc_df_B004GCXNDY2009706?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B004GCXNDY&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=19600969771283725877&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=
No-See-Um Bug Jacket?
http://www.campmor.com/no-see-um-bug-jacket-2.shtml
Rocket Jones
05-10-2012, 11:37
Unfortunately, Deet is the most effective thing out there for most people. There are many alternatives, but finding one that works for you will be a process, and some people never find anything that works nearly as well.
40% Deet is a little stronger than you need, so I'd suggest trying the less concentrated stuff. Over 40% doesn't work any better and doesn't last any longer (I think it's actually like 36% or so).
Sandy of PA
05-10-2012, 12:14
I also can't use Deet. Colman sells a non-deet repellant that works pretty good. I wear Insect Sheild outerwear and treat my socks, shoes, and hat. I also have an insect shield Buff.
FYI, Permethrin is FAR more toxic than DEET. In fact, DEET is pretty much harmless unless you're allergic (it doesn't sound like you are--just disliking the smell isn't the same thing). Permethrin is scary ****. You're never supposed to get it on your skin, and it's a fairly potent neurotoxin if I recall correctly. I use it, but only on my clothes and only because I work outside in an area with abundant deer ticks. Otherwise, I'd never go near the stuff.
But it's your life. Pick your own poison...
Odd Man Out
05-10-2012, 13:39
I will be spraying clothes & gear with Permethrin. Earlier this week I opened up my bottle of Repell 100 Insect Repellent (98.11% DEET) and sprayed it on a napkin to see what it smelled liked. I got nauseous. I decided to test it this morning and I sprayed it once on my forearm and rubbed it in. I'm nauseous. This stuff isn't going to work for me. Any suggestions? Thx.
Picaridin is a synthetic bug repellent that has been tested to be just as effective as DEET and has the advantages of being essentially odorless and it will not dissolve synthetic fibers as DEET will. It has been used in Europe for some time and more recently has been approved for sale in the US. There are several brands that sell it.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icaridin
It's not that I dislike the smell of DEET, it just makes me very nauseous. From what I have read, Permethrin is toxic when wet but safe to humans when it's dry. At any rate, I need to find a DEET alternative.
I'd rather wear permithrin treated clothing and ditch the DEETn which can melt your backpack. I only used DEET 2 days on my PCT thru-hike (just a little on my hands and face) when others were drinking the stuff thanks to Permithrin (though I wore log sleeves and pants with a treated hat). All studies show that Permithrin threated clothing is very safe. I get bit far less with permithrin then I ever did with DEET.
Yeah, Picaridin may be your best alternative.
I have read that in heavy infested areas, or pests of high health concerns, 20% is recommended.
I think it's been available in the USA since 2002.
Appears to be fairly safe(?).
http://www.epa.gov/opprd001/factsheets/picaridin.pdf
You sound new to bug spray. It melts plastic. Including eueglass lenses.
Find some 30%. Do not spray your skin. Spray a cloth, then rub that around on exposed skin. I normally stash the glasses, then spritz the air above my head. Spritz the fingers and rub cuffs and exposed skin.
People use way more than is needed. Little dad will do ya.
If that makes you floppy stomached, then try a different active ingredient.
+1 on Permethrin and Picaridin. And properly diluted down to 0.5 to 0.8% I doubt that a little liquid Permethrin on the skin would constitute a huge risk. It is not easily absorbed, and it has been used as scabies treatment. One of those things to try to avoid, but not real high on the toxicity scale.
doritotex
05-10-2012, 16:13
I also have tried everything, I quit using DEET when my arm swelled up after I sprayed it on after going through a bramble patch. My arms got scratched, and a couple of hours later at camp I sprayed it on, the next day my arm was severely swollen where I couldn't wear my watch. It wasn't until I read the back of the DEET package, where it said "do not use on broken skin". It also damaged my tent where I had some repellent on my legs.
I got some free samples of "Natrapel" which is a brand name for Picaridin at Trail Days last year, and it was the best that I have used so far. I don't like to use poisons if I don't have to, but the alternative of Lyme disease is not pleasant either!
Odd Man Out
05-10-2012, 17:55
DEET and permethrin are completely different.
DEET is a repellent you apply to your skin to keep insects away. Permethrin is an insecticide you apply to your clothes to kill bugs. Permethrin is not a replacement for DEET.
Picardin is a repellent you apply to your skin that works as well as DEET without most of the drawbacks (smell, dissolving plastics, irritation, etc...).
Snowleopard
05-10-2012, 19:02
Where and when will you be hiking? Black fly season in the north? Mosquito season in the Arctic? Florida?
I don't normally use DEET because I worry about it triggering my asthma. If the bugs get bad enough I will use DEET.
In northern Mass., I get by with permethrin treated long pants, long sleeved shirt, caped hat. For ticks I also treat my boots and will treat my the tops of my socks in places where Lyme is a serious danger. This has worked well when the black flies are not too bad and the mosquitos are medium bad. For hikes where black flies or mosquitos might be bad I add a headnet. If I expect black flies or mosquitos to be really bad I would add light cotton mittens treated with permethrin or use DEET; in the old days before DEET, people would use leather gloves during black fly season.
A good bug suit is what is used in the Arctic where mosquitos can be really really bad: http://www.bugjacket.com/ This would probably be too warm for hiking in the south in summer.
An excellent headnet for black flies and mosquitos is Peter Vacco's: http://petersheadnets.com/petersheadnets.com.html He also has advice on bug clothing. His service was slow (his email was down for a while), but he's a good guy. The material he uses has bigger holes than noseeum netting, so you can see better (normal headnets drive me crazy), BUT it may not work as well for smaller insects like gnats and noseeums.
garlic08
05-10-2012, 21:30
I hiked the AT, including New England at the end of black fly season, without DEET. I wore permethrin-treated clothing and a head net. I'd rather have a few bites than put DEET on my skin. My wife got a racing heartbeat and shortness of breath for days after she accidentally sprayed some on a drinking tube. It melted the tube and got into the water. By the way, the long trousers and sleeves kept me from having to use another chemical on my skin, sunscreen. I've never had nor heard of any immediate reactions to permethrin, but who knows what long-term damage I may have done.
Wise Old Owl
05-10-2012, 21:36
Unbelievable - you aren't supposed to inhale.....
Read and follow all directions and
precautions on this product label. Apply over all exposed skin to repel
mosquitoes, ticks and biting flies. Use just enough repellent to cover
exposed skin and/or clothing. Do not use under clothing. Do not spray in
enclosed areas. Do not spray directly on face. If used on the face, spray
on hands first, then apply sparingly to face and ears. Do not apply near
eyes and mouth. Avoid overapplication. Do not apply over cuts, wounds
or irritated skin. Do not allow children to handle this product.
http://www.whiteblaze.net/forum/showthread.php?83936-Permethrin-treatment-DEET-spray-questions
Wise Old Owl
05-10-2012, 21:47
I've had good results with Off! Botanicals. http://www.amazon.com/dp/B004GCXNDY/ref=asc_df_B004GCXNDY2009706?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=asn&creative=395093&creativeASIN=B004GCXNDY&hvpos=1o2&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=19600969771283725877&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=
Won't work in Canada or New Hampshire - to - Maine.... I wouldn't use that in Florida either.... But you are right - Fine for where you live.... What you are suggesting is simmilar to Skin-so-soft... the stuff that was discovered by accident... You end up applying it often.
I also can't use Deet. Colman sells a non-deet repellant that works pretty good. I wear Insect Sheild outerwear and treat my socks, shoes, and hat. I also have an insect shield Buff.
Thanks, I picked that up at Walmart.
RichardD
05-13-2012, 00:06
I too like the OFF botanicals but its only good if the mosquitoes are not too numerous.
I dont like the feel of DEET on my skin but its the only thing that works when the mosquitoes become ravenous. I dont suffer immediate side effects from the DEET, I use it with care on face neck and hands and keep legs and arms covered with clothing and it works. I seem to suffocate under a headnet so that is a last resort for me.
Pehaps there are side effects but perhaps more immediate side effects of not using it could be West Nile Virus or other insect borne diseases plus the intense lingering discomfort of many bites.
I use permethrin on my clothing and it offers great protection from ticks, it seems to give some, but not complete protection from mosquitoes gnats etc
RichardD
05-13-2012, 00:17
I just notice Mudheads post. At the end of my AT hike my eyeglasses were horribly blurred. I bet it was from the DEET, did not occcur to me before!! I always removed glasses and sprayed to my hand to carefully apply to face and neck. I bet when I put my glasses back on some DEET transferred from my hand to the lenses!!
Snowleopard
05-13-2012, 10:51
... I seem to suffocate under a headnet so that is a last resort for me. ...
Peter Vacco's headnets are made from tulle, a bridal veil material. The holes in the mesh are larger than noseeum, so it is easier to see through than my other headnets and somewhat more breathable. You could pick up some tulle at a fabric shop (Joann's has it, $1.49/yard) and just drape it over your hat to see if it's better for you than a regular noseeum.
... At the end of my AT hike my eyeglasses were horribly blurred. I bet it was from the DEET, did not occcur to me before!! I always removed glasses and sprayed to my hand to carefully apply to face and neck. I bet when I put my glasses back on some DEET transferred from my hand to the lenses!!
DEET is a solvent for some plastics. That can be an expensive mistake on plastic lenses. Philip (earlylite) tested deet on some shredded water proof breathable pants. The nylon was undamaged but the laminate was badly damaged. Other plastics will dissolve in deet. http://sectionhiker.com/deet-dissolves-breathable-fabrics-experimental-results/
I have great luck with a product called Cactus Jack. I found it while fishing the coast of Florida. the bugs are terrible but this stuff works well (I too can't stand DEET). I reorder it online. as a bonus it has a pleasant smell and some sunscreen in it.
Cookerhiker
05-13-2012, 12:24
Personally, my option is to use nothing.
During the day while hiking, the bugs only bother me if I'm taking a long break which I'd rather not do anyway; for me, shorter more frequent breaks are preferred to long ones. I don't eat a big lunch but "graze" during the day.
When arriving at camp late afternoon/early evening, I put on long pants and the rain jacket with the hood if necessary. The bugs are just flying around my face and occasionally my hands. I can deal with that - better than using these products.
I'm also an early-to-bed, early-to-rise type which helps.
Stink Bug
05-13-2012, 13:26
Won't work in Canada or New Hampshire - to - Maine.... I wouldn't use that in Florida either.... But you are right - Fine for where you live.... What you are suggesting is simmilar to Skin-so-soft... the stuff that was discovered by accident... You end up applying it often.
Maybe I'm lucky and I have a skin chemistry that bugs just don't like but I've used Botanicals in the jungles of Belize, Goose Bay Canada, Catskills in NY and the AT through NJ and wasn't bothered. Granted I had treated my clothing/pack straps with permethrin and I was wearing long sleeved pants/shirt, but even so, the exposed areas of my skin weren't really troubled.
Andrewsobo
05-13-2012, 14:46
Maybe I'm lucky and I have a skin chemistry that bugs just don't like but I've used Botanicals in the jungles of Belize, Goose Bay Canada, Catskills in NY and the AT through NJ and wasn't bothered. Granted I had treated my clothing/pack straps with permethrin and I was wearing long sleeved pants/shirt, but even so, the exposed areas of my skin weren't really troubled.
This is a definite possibility I think. I tend to be unaffected by misquitos when other people are complaining about them. My silly theory is a family history of low blood pressure and poor circulation to the limbs and the bugs can't sense me as easily. One of my friends is a ******* misquito magnet, she gets attacked as soon as she steps outside in Florida in the summer, where i don't have a bite yet this season.
Odd Man Out
05-13-2012, 18:43
All of the objective scientific tests I have seen comparing DEET to herbal based repellents indicate that the herbal ones don't really work. If you think they work for you then great, but the scientist in me is always doubtful. Picardin is the only repellent I know that has tested comparable to DEET, and has the advantage of being less irritating to skin, nose, and plastics, so that is what I use now.
singing wind
05-13-2012, 23:15
Hi, I like to use a mixture of essential oils and water in a 1-2 oz lightweight spray bottle. Citronella, lavender and tea tree seem to work pretty well for mosquitoes and sand flies. Tried and tested on the AT and Te Araroa. I put a varying amount of the essential oil mixture in water, depending on how strong I want the resulting mix to be. Just be sure and shake the spray bottle well before applying. Simple, easy and fairly non-toxic. If you are scent sensitive, however, this might not be an option.